Make It Five
November 11, 2008Browns are “worst-coached half-decent team”
November 12, 2008
The title above needs to be the start of a conversation, pronto. While other closers like Francisco Rodriguez and Brian Fuentes want $75 million deals, it appears that one of the games most consistent ninth inning arms is going to be available. If you thought that Cleveland was on tad the cheap side, wait until you see what happened to Trevor Hoffman and San Diego. Yes, the same Hoffman that took a pay cut last season to stay with the team.
Four days after reliever Trevor Hoffman’s agent said he is disappointed that the club hasn’t set up a meeting with Padres owner John Moores, the Padres Monday withdrew the $4 million offer to the all-time saves leader.
Four million. Four! To the same guy that Cleveland offered $11 million just a year prior. And while Hoffman’s choice to stay in San Diego could have been season-saving for the Indians had he took the trip to Cleveland, I think it is pretty safe to say that the Padres are dropping the ball here.Â
Sure, Hoffman may not exactly be in his prime. He’ll be 41-years old before next season starts – which is likely the reason that San Diego may be choosing to end their ties with the closer. But he’s also a guy that has a career ERA of 2.78 and has finished second in Cy Young balloting twice. Do I think that we should offer him a five-year deal? No chance. But now that we know what his own team is offering (or in this case, not offering), it would be a huge gaffe to not capitalize on this.Â
Plus, how great would it be to get to have about 120 decibels of “Hell’s Bells” pumping in Progressive Field?
[youtube]www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3QN8dZxFYM[/youtube]
I’d take this over Joe Borowski’s “All I Need is a Miracle” any day of the week…
Organization pulls Hoffman contract offer from the table [San Diego Union Tribune]
26 Comments
Mike + the Mechanics…. Niiiice.
haha, sorry this just made me laugh. its the add that gotickets.com is running on the left side of the website:
“Indians Tickets? Super Bowl Packages? Or maybe a promising season has you thinking of upgrading from Ohio State Football Tickets and seats at Cleveland Browns Stadium to BCS Bowl Packages and Super Bowl Tickets instead.”
oh, wishful thinking…
I am not a fan of signing Hoffman. I think he is finished. A 3.77 ERA in the weak NL and he is a soft-tosser.
I think Hoffman has “Borowski” written all over him and still favor Street, who I understand the Rockies are looking to trade (never having the intention of holding on to him). Still, if we landed Hoffman, I know I’d bury my worries and feel all excited. And yeah, “Hell’s Bells” would sound great at Progressive.
What is this “Progressive Field” people are speaking of?
The Tribe plays their home games at the Jake. Sell-out corporate names are unacceptable.
Todd: Would you prefer going to battle with J-Lew?
Why are we talking about baseball right now?
because we’re not a “what have you done for me lately” blog 🙂
Scott – Yes, I would. At least he costs $4 million less.
SIncerely,
Larry Dolan
What exactly did J-Lew do as closer to NOT earn himself a shot to begin the year as closer?
Do we need more bullpen help? Yes. But J-Lew is part of the solution, IMHO, not part of the problem.
DP-know what happens to 85mph straight fastballs in the 9th inning? You’ve got to be kidding if you think Jensen Lewis is a major league closer, please. He rarely hits 90mph at his best, and most often is mid 80’s-so Borowski like it’s scary.
If we won’t pay for heat in the bullpen, go ahead and sign Trevor Hoffman to a one year contract. At least he will bring professionalism, leadership, and guile-yes, enough guile to handle the job for at least one year. Just get this done Shapiro, enough said.
But please, this talk of Jensen Lewis as a full time major league closer is killing me. I know fans here tend to be sychophants, but please use at least a tad bit of reasoning as part of the process. Please.
Agreed… how often are second half stats a real indicator for what the player will do in the next season? I would say that they’re a poor indicator more often than not. RandyOSU is right… the gimmicky delivery that J-Lew sports is pretty effective against batters the first few times they see it, but once they get past that, they are looking at a very hittable 88 mph fastball with no wiggle to it. Lewis did a great job as closer last year and deserves to be praised for that, but I think his future is as a 7th inning guy.
Though I’m definitely in the “add Hoffman” camp as long as the price is right, I’m sill holding out hope that Adam Miller’s 97 MPH can slot in at the back end of the ‘pen
If the Indians don’t get Street, they almost have to take a shot at Hoffman, because that’s as good as it will get. They won’t outbid anyone for a good closer, so it’s the annual Bullpen Special: sign some has-beens and rehab projects for a year (or two years max) and see what shakes loose. If that’s the scenario, why not Hoffman at $4M?
I am in the group that thinks J-Lew deserves a shot as closer based on how well he played last year, so we can use the money to get a closer to fill our holes in the middle of the bullpen and at 3rd base
Although 4 million for a one year rental of Hoffman wouldn’t be terrible
Randy – Does JLew going something like 12-13 to finish the year for saves not get him anything? Heaven forbid we give the kid a chance and he grows into a closer. By your theory, we should keep bringing in an aging closer every year. I’m tired of signing veterans for their presence, a la Trot Nixon.
Let’s give him a chance. If he fails, oh well, atleast we’re not paying him millions to fail.
Jensen Lewis did remarkably well and undoubtedly should be in the mix (the guy gets amped up when he comes in for a save; I don’t doubt he can do it), but with relief pitching being so precarious – as we’ve learned the hard way – there’s no good reason to not add on.
Lyon, read P’s post above about second half stats, which is right on the mark. If he fails you ask? Answer……so goes the season.
High probability of failure at that spot throwing 85MPH unless you are a serious veteran with lots of presence (aka Hoffman). Quit drinking the kool-aid and put your mind to work here…….get real. Were you one of the ones saying we were all set in the outfield last year? (Jason Michaels/Franklyn Guitieriez).
Guess either you don’t care if the team is a winner or just overdosed on Dolan potion.
Being in Alaska, I couldn’t watch a lot of the games at the end of the season, so I didn’t see J. Lewis. What I saw on ESPN Gamecasts was him coming in and getting saves. It seemed to work. I don’t know if he is going to be Papelbon, but I would say from the outside looking in, he did a great job at the end of the season.
That being said, we need bullpen help. I don’t care how many relievers we can sign, just do it. If they are all closers, then we will figure something out. We had some totally unreliable guys in there last year and it killed us. If want to even sniff at contending, we have to have a bullpen. Look at the back end for the Phillies. The game was over if they had the lead in the 7th. That is what the Tribe should be emulating.
I’m still with Randy here… it’s not a question of if teams are going to get used to Lewis’ throwing motion and hit his fastball, it’s a matter of when. Maybe you are willing to bet that it won’t be next season… I’m not willing to bet that… I’d rather make sure we have a proven closer if that’s actually a possibility. We’re not a rebuilding team here… we’re ready for the postseason right now and we’re ready to buy the guys necessary to help us win.
Wait wait wait wait wait.
We don’t count second half stats now? That one of the most assine things I have ever heard. Because those games don’t count in the standings now? Seriously, have I now landed on a strange new world where NOTHING makes a lick of sense? Now I’ve really read it all on sports blogs. Teams like the Twins, White Sox, Rays, etc weren’t trying to hit the ball off of Lewis because it was the second half of the season? Do saves and HR and WHIP only count for half the amount because the second half of the season has diminished value? Do wins count less too?
P and Randy- PLEASE show me any, and I mean ANY, proof that second half statistics are any less valuable or are a “poor indicator” or player performance.
I’m going to assume here that what they meant was that we can’t extrapolate a half a season’s worth of numbers to a whole year, which is definitely true. We shouldn’t go crazy over Jensen Lewis’ second half, just like we shouldn’t go crazy over the numbers Choo put up in the second half. You just can’t tell how a player will do over 162 games versus the 51 that Lewis appeared in last season.
However, I do have to take serious umbrage with the idea that a soft tosser can’t be a good closer. People put WAY too much stock in MPH and they always have. There are plenty of examples of solid pitchers who don’t throw with much gas. Greg Maddux, Jamie Moyer, Tim Wakefield, and of course, the man whom this post is all about, Trevor Hoffman. So I’m not worried if Lewis can’t hit triple digits as long as he puts the ball where he wants to, which you would think he did relatively well since he only had one blown save.
That being said, I say bring in Hoffman. Yes last year’s numbers seem down and he is getting older, but he actually had a lower WHIP in ’08 than ’07, struck out more guys in less innings in ’08 than ’07, and his league adjusted ERA was his lowest since 2002. I’m not sure I want to give him $4 million, but $3 mill wouldn’t be absurd.
Bambino………what don’t you understand about teams that fall out of contention with nothing to play for and/or any pressure to win? It’s not second half that is at issue, it’s the standing of the team and what that means, or doesn’t mean in this case.
If you don’t get that, then I wish you well in your confidence in Jensen Lewis as a full time major league closer (for what you think will be a contending team), Franklyn Guiteriez in right field, Ryan Garko at DH, and a to be signed Casey Blake at 3B.
Enjoy…….I myself set higher standards. (aka look at how the Cleveland Cavaliers run their organization for some clues).
MadCowz99 you are correct, a soft-tosser can definitely be a closer but you were missing my point. It’s not just the fact that Lewis throws 85-88 mph on his fastball, it’s that his fastball has no life to it. It’s as straight as straight can be. You absolutely won’t find that in any other soft-tossing closer in the league. They will sink their fastball or cut their fastball, etc. The only way you can get by with a fastball like that as the closer is if you can spot it better than 90% of the other pictures out there, and I don’t think Lewis can do that. Sorry.
Bambino, I am not saying that good second half stats = poor stats the next year. I have no idea how you managed to read that. I’m saying that they’re not a good indicator of what will happen the next year. I consider Lewis’ stint at closer to be like a “rookie year”, so if you think that rookies who come in and have good second halves usually do well the entire next year, I have to disagree with that. Look at the numbers with the Indians recently. Take Asdrubal Cabrera, Aaron Laffey, Jeremy Sowers, Ryan Garko, crap just about anybody recently. Once again, I am not saying that players who have good second halves at a new position or in a rookie season will always have a poor full season to follow. I’m saying that the stats are in no way an indicator of what will happen the next year.
Fair enough guys. I guess my point is I’d much rather have a player perform well ANYTIME of the season. Be it spring training or the last out of contention game of the season. I don’t necessary think that rookies who have a good second have will have a great next season, I watch a little more baseball than that. But my point is, if a player just crushes it the second half, well…you have to put SOME stock in that, right? I mean, they performed well. That’s what you want anytime of the year.
And no, I am far from convinced that Jensen should be our full time closer. That is another point entirely.
[…] our off-season search for a closer, the name Trevor Hoffman was dangled about as the veteran closer was looking for a new home. We belabored a bit, but given Hoffman’s […]