While We’re Waiting…
January 19, 2009Breaking Down The Delonte-less Cavaliers
January 19, 2009One of the legendary pathetic organizations in all of pro sports, the Arizona Cardinals, have reached the summit. After their 32-25, blowout, choke-job, come from behind win over the Philadelphia Eagles in Glendale yesterday, the Cardinals punched their ticket to their first Super Bowl in franchise history. This is an organization that started in Chicago, then moved from St. Louis to Arizona. During the Arizona years, the Cardinals have seen hundreds of players come and go, and only had one playoff win to speak of. That was until January 2009. Three improbable victories later, Ken Whisenhunt, a former Bill Cowher disciple in Pittsburgh, has gotten his team to the promise land to face his old team.
During the Super Bowl era, of the teams that have existed for more than 50 years, only three teams hadn’t made an appearance on the game’s biggest stage. You can cross the Cardinals off that list. To quote the great George Costanza in “the contest” episode after Elaine dropped out – “And then…..there were two.”
The Detroit Lions and your Cleveland Browns.
How does that taste Browns fans? Nothing like being in the company of the organization that is run by perhaps the worst family ownership in sports, the Ford’s. Even Bill Bidwell, the Arizona owner, recognized as the Donald Sterling of NFL owners, has now seen his team reach a Super Bowl.
The Lions history mirrors the Browns, only it is actually worse. They started in the 30’s, but in the Super Bowl era, now 43 years, the Lions have won a grand total of one playoff game, a 1991 divisional game over the Cowboys. How is that possible with Barry Sanders, one of the top five greatest Running Backs of all time, toting the rock for 10 years? They have only come close once, that 1991 season, but they were blown out by the Washington Redskins 41-10 in the NFC title game. Since the turn of the century, Detroit has yet to sniff the playoffs.
By comparison, the Browns during the Super Bowl era enjoyed what I would call “mild success” at best. However, between 1969 and 1986, they made only five playoff appearances, going 0-5, including the dreaded “Red, Right, 88” debacle in 1980. You know all about the late 80’s – three AFC Championship games against Denver, three losses. Two with Marty Schottenheimer at the helm, one with Bud Carson roaming the sidelines. In 1994, the 11-5 Browns won a wild card game over New England before being bounced by Pittsburgh in the divisional playoffs.
Finally, in the fourth year of the “New Browns” era, a wild card loss to the Steelers could have been avoided if not for Foge Fazio’s odd defensive calls with a big lead and Dennis Northcutt’s butterfingers. Let us not forget if not for three different things going their way in the last week of the season, the 9-7 Browns don’t even see January football. I think we all know by now, the 2007 Browns 10-6 record was a complete mirage, thanks to the last place schedule. Since 1990, with three seasons ripped away by the NFL, the Cleveland Browns have had a grand total of three winning seasons had one playoff win.
The classic line heard for years on Detroit sports talk radio applies to both organizations. “There is one constant” when it comes down to it – bad ownership.
The Ford family in Detroit, and Uncle Artie and The Lerner Family in Cleveland. Drunken Old man William Clay Ford is the guy who kept Matt Millen on board for seven plus years, with a record of 31-84, and drafts that were Butch Davis-bad. Ford took over sole ownership in 1964. Coincidentally, that is the same year the Browns won their last NFL title, before there was a game called “The Super Bowl.” There have been calls for Ford to turn over the team to his son, William Clay Ford Jr, at a minimum, and the old man won’t do it.
We all know Modell nearly bankrupted the franchise and himself, despite having one of the most popular franchises in the NFL while selling out games 80,000 strong for years. Naturally, he found success when he moved to Baltimore and eventually was forced to sell in phases to Stephen Biscotti. I stopped believing in karma when I saw him holding the Lombardi Trophy in January 2001.
Unfortunately, the new Browns were handed over to the Lerners. While the family has deep pockets, Al’s son Randy has shown a complete aversion to not just the media, but to running the team the correct way. No need to rehash the debacles that have happened under his watch, especially this past season. However, the extreme fashion in which he hired new coach Eric Mangini just illustrates how odd boy Randy is in regards to being an NFL owner. He was in such a hurry to hire Mangini, that he ended up missing out on chances at home run hires like Jon Gruden and Mike Shanahan, who became available after his obsession with Mangini began (not that those two would come here). On top of that, he backed himself into a corner by hiring a coach before a GM, limiting his options there as well.
Did I mention that he refused to speak on camera or even be photographed with the coach he is so in love with on the day he was hired? I’ve said it before and it bears repeating; if you don’t like the scrutiny that comes with being an NFL owner, SELL THE TEAM.
The Fords and the Lerners – the one constant. Bad ownership. Now they have something else in common; they are the last of the mohicans. They own the only organizations that have been around since the inception of the Super Bowl that have yet to get to the game.
42 Comments
If Gruden is a home run hire, then why are teams like the Jets hiring their coach without talking to him? The Broncos didn’t wait to hire Gruden either. Nor did the Rams. The Colts wasted no time in replacing Tony Dungy.
I guess I wish the Browns had hired a GM first, but I don’t see why being decisive and hiring the guy you like is such a bad thing. Had Lerner waited, he would be getting hammered by people saying that he’s dragging his feet and can’t make up his mind. Not that he deserves any benefit of the doubt, but Lerner is definitely in a “damned if he do, damned if he don’t” situation.
Here’s to hoping Lerner figures it out this year. He is doing things backwards this year (at least compared to tradition), but at least it seems like there are some competent people coming into play. Maybe he can round out the organization with competent mployees this year?
If he does this, then he can disappear, we won’t need or want his opinion.
I fear him selling the team…..you can never be sure the new owner would stay in Cleveland
So, how is it that the Lerners are bad owners? They aren’t afraid to fail by making decisions and they will spare no expense to try and change things that aren’t working.
I was happy that they brought Carmen Policy in to start this franchise. They attempted to bring in experience. It was a good idea even though it failed.
I was happy that they brought in Butch Davis who had a wealth of experience and knowledge in coaching. It was a good idea, and a nice try even though it failed. Were they supposed to know that Davis wouldn’t be able to draft to save his life? How could they?
I was happy with the hiring of Phil Savage because I thought he could upgrade this team from a talent standpoint. I was never on board with the Romeo Hire. Savage got us BQ and Shaun Rogers while giving us some semblance of an offensive line. I maintain that the talent evaluation portion of Savage’s tenure here was a bit above average. Romeo not so much.
So, what, exactly makes the Lerner’s bad owners? The fact that they haven’t found the next Belichick yet? Some of that is bad luck, but how can you sit in hindsight smashing these people just because things haven’t worked out?
Detroit’s problem is that they wouldn’t try anything different as Matt Millen sat there and drafted WR after WR. Randy Lerner and his father before him were willing to keep trying things and change things up and spend money when it didn’t work.
This is only Randy’s second go-round picking football people, so give him a chance. He couldn’t have seen this team going 4-12 this year. Neither did the so-called EXPERTS. Maybe he will learn from his mistakes unlike other ownership groups around the league, like Detroit. Ask the WhoDeyRevolution if they wouldn’t prefer someone who is actually willing to hire a GM and scouting staff.
The definition of “good ownership” seems very outcome determinative the way it’s being defined here. Was Modell a good owner because the Ravens won it all based upon the organization he set up? Weren’t the Bidwells the paradigm of bad owners until this year? How about the definition being those who put the right people in place, write the checks and get the hell out of the way? This is what scares me about the Mangini hire. I wanted the owner to hire an organizational guy to set up a working system that could withstand mistakes in drafting and coaching hires and individuals coming and going.
We’re talking about Randy Lerner, not the Lerners. Randy has none of Al’s business saavy, expertise, or feel for people as leaders. The fact that the guy won’t say nary a word to his loyal fan base is a huge red flag, in fact it’s dysfunctional.
You can “hope” Lerner’s decisions work, or “hope” he figures it out. Not particularly the business model of winning organizations. Lerner had a great opportunity here to work with NFL professionals in molding a real front office infrastructure; instead he ran as fast as he could to show everyone how much he knows by hiring a fired losing coach he became enamored with. That coach not only convinced him in a single sighting of his expertise, but also the candidacy of his personal pick to be his own boss/gm/camrade-George Kokinis.
TD-great analogy here. For those who support these moves based on their mantra of “who else was available” and “let’s hope this works”-that process wouldn’t fly two minutes in the business world. Lerner has shown poor judgement prior in fixating on candidates that lack the prerequisite experience, and nothing has changed as far as his doing same at this time.
Ask Scott Pioli why he didn’t take this gig, ask Rich McKay why he declined to interview. Lerner has made his own bed, which is actually the best possible scenario-for by choosing a coach of his inclination first in the process and attaching a “friendly” GM to the process he will be judged personally and solely on the results. Odds are they won’t be pretty……unless of course you “hope” they be so.
I think saying the Broncos, Rams, and Colts “didn’t want to talk to Gruden” is a little off base. As two of those teams had already hired their coach before Gruden got the ax. Of course they wouldn’t talk to him if they thought they couldn’t get him. The timing just doesn’t line up on your point.
Dom Capers just hired on as a Defensive Coordinator, was he considered here? What background does Brian Daboll bring to the table in regards to having confidence in his particular system? (or is it that “all coordinators get their start sometime”?). Who sits on top of all this to ensure that this time it’s done right, and that NFL experienced winners are brought on in all key facets of the organization?
Randy Lerner?? Eric Mangini??
Randy, we butt heads on this all the time. I don’t want to do it again so I will keep it brief. All due respect to you, because your opinion is certainly valued on this site by me.
At the same time, I wish I could speak as decisively as you. I just don’t know how, without insider info, you can be so sure of yourself that you are without a doubt 100% correct about a guy (Lerner) you probably haven’t worked with, let alone met, in saying he has no business savvy, expertise or feel for people.
You might be right, but aren’t you just guessing with very little information with which to base your opinion?
Randy Lerner’s English Premier League Team, Aston Villa has cracked the top 4 and is destined for the Champions League…
Why can’t he own the Browns in the same way?
“Of course they wouldn’t talk to him if they thought they couldn’t get him. The timing just doesn’t line up on your point.”
No, that’s the between-the-lines point I was trying to make. Of COURSE Cleveland wouldn’t talk to him either if they thought they couldn’t get him. You can’t hold Gruden against Lerner, because nobody say his firing coming. Now, having said that, I still don’t think he’s the second coming. I don’t hear too many people shedding any tears in Tampa over losing him.
@Allen: He tried: https://waitingfornextyear.com/?p=564
Just because you do things the right way doesn’t always mean you’ll get the results you want. The best you can do is continue to do things the right way, because eventually you’ll get the expected results. My biggest problem with Lerner has been that he keeps changing the Browns model. I think they had it right the first time with Policy, Clark, and Palmer. The problem was the personnel there, not the structure. When that wasn’t working, rather than just changing the people filling the President, GM, and Coach roles, they changed it up and gave one man all the power in Butch Davis. Then, they went back to a PResident/GM/Coach role, but when Collins and Savage clashed, they once again changed the structure. Now they seem to be doing it again.
Anyway, hindsight is always going to be 20/20. No owner, not even the Rooneys, could have won in Cleveland with the talent that’s been on the field. Now, the talent is getting better, and Lerner is trying to put a structure in that will work for Cleveland. I hope it works, but I have my reservations. I’m just willing to give it a chance before I start bashing it baselessly like others.
Craig-yes we do butt heads here, respectively.
Contrare, we have a book of information on how Randy Lerner makes his decisions of which to go on-and his system has not changed. I was NOT in favor of Crennel and Savage the moment they were hired, precisely for the same reason in this current process. Crennel was a many times passed over lethargic candidate, and Savage was a first-time GM-the odds of that being successful as such a critical juncture were minimal. After one year of Crennel I couldn’t sit in my season seats under his regime anymore. Hopeful that this mess would now provide a golden opportunity to do it right, the same lack of process is in place-with the addition of Lerner jumping to hire candidates on his own.
Yes I am decisive here-I have also had enough of Lerner hiding from the public while makig all the decisons on his own. It’s my opinion-and I have my own read on Lerner’s abilities. I say again, the odds of this working out given the lack of process and NFL expertise in building this up is minimal.
Let’s see what happens Craig-but I’m not “hoping” anymore, given what is transpiring. How do you feel about the critical position of GM/Exec. VP being filled and chosen as a friend of a new head coach with limited experience?
With all due respect, let’s see what happens-I can’t refrain from stating it as I see it. I’ll happily buy you a Morton’s steak dinner if I’m wrong…….
Craig..by the way, I will say I was also very much for the Butch Davis hire at that time. Keep in mind that hire was an Al Lerner/Carmen Policy hire, and not a Randy Lerner hire-it doesn’t count as resume expirence for him.
Butch Davis had a great resume, and we all wanted to believe his winning exprerience at Miami would transcribe to the NFL. It didn’t, he drafted poorly-and it appears he’s better suited at the college level. It didn’t work, but the process and method seemed to make sense at that time.
RANDY Lerner’s process and methods have made little sense under HIS tenure as owner. (I’ve already expressed the Crennel/Savage hirings and the process or lack thereof given those absurd hirings).
Thank you for your voice of reason, TD.
Lerner hasn’t shown that he’s a man capable of learning from his mistakes…. he’s gone through his second hiring cycle, and both times acted swiftly after becoming infatuated with the first HC candidate he interviewed. While he admittedly says he is not a football guy, he wants his GM and HC to report directly to him… even though he’s not an active owner–which is a good thing, but it means there is nobody in charge to lead… everybody is reporting to a guy who not only doesn’t work in Berea, but lives in NY and spends his time with his futbol team across the pond. Until he puts a qualified football executive in charge of the organization, we cannot expect any sustained success or professionalism from the organization. They may get lucky every so often, as in 2007, but any hopes of becoming a model organization such as Pittsburgh or Indianopolis will remain a pipe dream.
Craig – Like Allen implied, Lerner may have some semblance of business savvy and leadership, but he has chosen to exercise it in England with Aston Villa rather than with the Browns.
Objective evidence against Lerner: He has picked unsuccessful leaders for his organization (Romeo and Savage), he has watched his organization suffer PR nightmares (staph infections, LeCharles Bentley, F*** off email, Winslow situation etc) without decisively asserting himself, he has ostensibly done a hasty and un-thorough job of hiring his next leaders, and he has FAILED to make one media appearance to reassure his concerned fan base, including at Mangini’s press conference.
Given that weight of evidence, I just don’t see how Lerner can be defended. I have no vendetta against him, but am extremely frustrated, as every WFNY contributor is.
Agreed. He may have made some decent hirings in spite of himself, in only that given the talent pool to search from some candidates stand out. Nonetheless his decision to run the team from afar in the past proves very unwise.
The league is built for parody and we still have only a few good seasons. There is much more to ownership than the few hirings.
I realize that the new GM is friends with the head coach. This isn’t near as big a deal to me as it is to a lot of people. I care about the fact that the new GM has 18 years of experience and is highly regarded by the organization he is leaving. Go find me some bad free agent signings he has made over the years.
That sounds a lot like Savage’s resume when he came here, but there is one big difference. Savage brought in whatever talent he deemed necessary, regardless of what his coach wanted. There was a disconnect between what he brought in and what was needed on the field. This shouldn’t be an issue with Mangini and Kokinis. They should be on the same page so we will at least see this team head in a certain direction.
As for Lerner, he graduated from Columbia Law school and had previously started his own company before coming on to MBNA as a director. Basically, the guy is pretty smart, so maybe we shouldn’t assume he doesn’t know what he is talking about when it comes to business.
Outside of Al Davis and Jerry Jones, don’t most owners stay out of the picture?
Craig…in terms of the current process:
-Are you concerned that we again will hire a rookie GM?
-Are you concerned that the young coach just hired another rookie OC?
-Are you concerned that Mangini has declared himself the voice of the
organization, given his passivity in front of a microphone and on the
sidelines? (and the fact that we have a recalcitrant owner?).
@ Humboldt – he fired Savage the day the season ended and fired RAC the day after the season ended. How is that not being decisive?
“he has watched his organization suffer PR nightmares (staph infections, LeCharles Bentley, F*** off email, Winslow situation etc) without decisively asserting himself”
Regarding LeCharles, not sure what he was supposed to do. Both the Winslow situationa and the f*** off email were tied to Savage, and Lerner fired him. Not sure how much more you can assert yourself than that. Should he have pressed criminal charges? Hired an assassin?
Humboldt/MJ-precisely!
“That sounds a lot like Savage’s resume when he came here, but there is one big difference. Savage brought in whatever talent he deemed necessary, regardless of what his coach wanted.”
Actually, there’s another big difference. When Savage hired, there were NFL insiders left and right who said that Savage was not ready to be a GM and that he lacked the organizational skills for the job, and that he’s best suited to be a scout. That proved true.
For Kokinis, I’ve read a few sources say they’re not entirely sure he’s ready to be a GM, but I’ve not read a single person express concerns over his demeanor and level of professionalism. To me, that’s a big difference, because the worst thing about Savage was not his talent evaluation, but the way he conducted himself in that role as GM.
This site is driving me to drink as every time I get on the site I just get more depressed.
-Are you concerned that we again will hire a rookie GM?
The fact that the GM is a rookie doesn’t scare me in and of itself. Pioli is going to be a rookie too. I think on the heels of Phil Savage that Lerner knows what additional qualities to demand out of the GM position since Savage turned out to be a good scout with no personality management abilities.
-Are you concerned that the young coach just hired another rookie OC?
I am always concerned about stuff like this. Concern does not equal doomed to failure for me, though. Jim Fassell had head coaching experience and by most accounts was a failure in Baltimore under Brian Billick. So to me, you can’t apply a hard, fast rule like “if this, then this” when it comes to a coaching staff.
-Are you concerned that Mangini has declared himself the voice of the
organization, given his passivity in front of a microphone and on the
sidelines?
I am not sure this is the case. He happens to be in the news right now getting his staff together, but I am going to guess that this will change as Kokinis finds his way to his desk and the Browns move toward the draft. Again, I am going to hope that Randy Lerner could have learned something from the Savage experience.
MacNip #17 – Arthur Blank pushes Mike Vick around in a wheelchair and owned the Home Depot, Dan Rooney looks like Lou Holtz’s long lost brother, and Robert Kraft wears Bill Lumburgh french cuff shirts. Though not in the picture all the time, they are involved with their teams at games and in the public eye without being a detriment to their respective teams. In fact I’d say that they’ve all done a pretty good job of putting the pieces together for their teams (aside from Blank giving Vick a huge contract w/o hiring a PI to follow his ass around for months).
I know more about those three guys that I know about Lerner, and I haven’t even tried to gather info – they’re just always there doing what they can do for their teams.
Same can be said for Paul Allen in Seattle – owns the team and puts the money in, doesn’t distract from the team but does things right. Al Davis and Jerry Jones are freakshows, but for what it’s worth their teams always have media coverage (which can probably be correlated with merch sales) and more disperse fan bases than a lot of other teams.
Craig-who is hiring Kokinis, Lerner or Mangini? If it’s Mangini’s choice ratified by Lerner, what real input then did Lerner have in articulating those additional qualities? Why the limited search with GM’s of credible similar experience?
This is again where you and I start to drift apart Randy. You sit on the outside looking in thinking you can deduce these things based on order of events alone. I have agreed with you that our eyebrows should be up. I don’t know why you go to the next step of first, assuming that it is an impossible failure, and second, trying to make everyone jump to the same conclusions that you seemingly know conclusively.
You can be mad at Lerner for not letting us in on the process, but you can’t just pretend to know what is happening before the hiring is even made official. You might even be right, but with the assuredness you display you are still wrong.
Why isn’t raising the question good enough? It has been raised. We get it. Beyond that is idle speculation that nobody can back up.
IRB – great point. One of the common defenses for Lerner is that he’s not Jerry Jones or Al Davis. However, as you point out, those guys are outliers on the ownership continuum and there are plenty of effectual owners who lay between the annoyingly involved (Davis and Jones) and the reclusive (Lerner). NFL ownership is probably an area where the golden mean comes into play.
@ Randy – I am willing to bet that you are right. I bet after the complete disaster that the Savage/RAC experiment was, where neither candidate had any input on the other, Lerner has let Mangini give some input. But, I am also willing to bet that Mangini knows a lot more about football than Lerner does, so maybe we should want Mangini’s input on the decision?
Mangini has a bad rep around the league for telling on Billy Boy and his video tapes which is why a lot of GMs dropped out of the race. I love the fact that he told. Why would you let your opponent have a decided illegal advantage when you have the ability to stop it?
@ IRB – I agree with your point. I would love for Lerner to have a more public presence with this team, but it seems that he does not want to. And he could have this presence without becoming Al Davis/Jerry Jones. Maybe one day he will become that type of owner. Although, if the Browns are winning, I don’t care whether he is there or not.
Craig, you make valid points, as far as nobody has insider access. However, there are external results to base assessments on. I’m curious to know, what, exactly, has Lerner done to earn your trust? Has he done anything that would warrant the benefit of the doubt?
Personally, I don’t see anything that he’s done that demonstrates that he’s a capable owner. I give him credit for not wanting to interfere, but he undercuts himself by wanting everybody in the organization to report directly to him and refusing to install a capable football executive. He has created a vacuum at the top, and any organization is not going to thrive that way.
As for his business experience, he accomplished nothing without riding his father’s coattails. People point out that he was an MBNA director without acknowledging his father’s role in building the company or that he was the chairman of the board. He has attended some very accomplished schools and gotten some plum jobs thanks to his father, but his resume doesn’t indicate any significant successes of his own… without his dad, Randy isn’t on the board at MBNA, doesn’t inherit billions in shares, and doesn’t own the Browns. So, what exactly has impressed you to warrant your faith in him?
Lerner hasn’t earned my trust. He has hired one round of people in Cleveland and when it appeared that it had failed, he fired them. I am taking a wait and see approach on his second take with Mangini and Kokinis.
My eyebrows are up as to how it has gone down, but I don’t have a conclusion yet as the dust hasn’t finished settling.
As for his business experience, a quick look at Wikipedia shows that he started a company called Securities Advisors Inc, which he owned and managed from 1991 to 2001. He did this with the Progressive company, and I can’t find any details online about its successes or failures. Again, this thing about him being a failure in business is something that people just say because they assume he was just handed everything by his father.
I work in a family business too. I work closely with my father and my brother on a daily basis as my dad constantly shares 30 years worth of history in business decisions. Sorry if I don’t write off the son of a successful businessman just because he is the son of a successful businessman. Why is it that nobody thinks maybe he just had the best teacher that nobody else had access to?
The bottom line is this. Randy Lerner might be an abject failure. He hasn’t done anything to earn any trust, but then again, he has had limited opportunities to prove anything to us. As far as the public persona stuff goes, that is personal preference. It is something some people seem to care about and something others don’t care about. There is no right or wrong to that.
I am officially tired of the conversation as far as this topic goes, at least until something happens that we can discuss without all this blind conjecture.
Craig-
1.) I am merely stating my opinion, not expecting everyone jump to the
same conclusion. Am I allowed to state my opinion or if it differs from
yours on this subject will it be taken apart every time?
2.) Isn’t everything on this matter “idle speculation”? Isn’t this forum and
posts just everyone’s opinion and idle speculation?
3.) Why is the deal here where anything that doesn’t sound agreeable with
your “idle speculation” castigated on a personal basis?
Just my opinion as far as the posts go Craig……..don’t know why this
particular subject and my particular views ruffle your feathers. If it ruffles you that much I can stop posting but then what type of forum would you be hosting? I know you don’t want to censor other views right?
Craig…..if I’m hitting your Lerner nerve (and I’m not sure why)-read MJ’s posts. He/she does a much better job than I in trying to make the same point. It’s just a view is all……you don’t have to agree nor does anybody else, but I’m holding to it if it’s ok.
Am I allowed to agree with TD and commend him for a fine article here?
Randy – no, only allowed to agree to disagree with Craig and debate for a long time.
Craig (if you’re out there)-one final thing and I’m done on this string/topic:
We’re all passionate Browns fans in here, and we all bring different backgrounds/experiences/perspectives in formulating our views. I myself have spent my career in the business world, so I often compare/contrast because I know that leaders operate with the same principles whether it be business, sports, whatever. I enjoy reading the articles and posts, and I don’t have to agree with all of them. Likewise, nobody has to agree with my posts or even read them. I do, however, feel personal obligation to state what I see and how I feel……….just my opinion and it has no more or less merit in this forum than anyone else’s.
I hope we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable. That way, it’s all in fun.
@ Randy – I don’t think anyone said you couldn’t state your opinion, just some people don’t understand why you are so quick to discount the season 7 months before it starts
Randy… no feelings of ill will. I love to argue. I love to argue heatedly. That’s probably why I gravitated toward the sports world. Beats arguing politics any day, although some days it feels similar.
Craig – thanks for your response. I would like to point that that I didn’t call Randy a failure in business – I have said that he’s gotten there through his father’s efforts, but that does not equate to calling him a failure. I have said he’s failed to this point as owner, but I don’t believe I’ve ever called him a flat-out failure, or a failure in business.
I agree with you that he absolutely doesn’t deserve to be written off because of his father’s success–I hope I didn’t imply that–but it irks me when people attribute his father’s success to Randy (not saying that you have, but it’s been brought up in other discussions.) My problem is when I see people blindly defend him without reason, and that is the lens through which I’ve read most of your comments about him. I understand your position a little better now.
However, I disagree with your assertion about about it all being blind conjecture–there is valid criticism to be had without ever turning to conjecture.
I’m right with you on the wait-and-see approach regarding Mangini and Kokinis. I’m not blindly criticizing everything, and my criticism isn’t unfounded lashing-out. Where we diverge is that I will still be concerned with the vacuum atop the organization, the lack of a football executive in charge. Randy wants to remain in the background, and that’s fine… but he also wants everybody reporting to him, and that is a concern–there is still a huge hole that looks to remain unfilled. Success on the field will cover it up, but we saw in 2008 exactly what happens when nobody is around to keep everyone accountable–somebody needs to be there to right the ship. Some people may argue that it’s Mangini, others Kokinis. Others would point to Keenan. All I know is that all three are side-by-side, parallel reporting to a common boss, and that boss (Randy) wants to stay out of the day-to-day operations. That is a structural problem that is not being addressed, and from an organizational standpoint, should be a concern.
Anyway, I’ve enjoyed discussing this with you–sorry if I’ve burned you out on the topic. 😉
MacNip, it’s because I’m so disappointed in how Lerner went about this-and jumped to hiring his coach on his own before establising his infrastructure. Because I saw the process he went through (or lack of process) in his previous hires, and because it appears to me he’s doing it all over again. Because, he had a golden opportunity to begin branding this organization with an identity, and I don’t see it. Because, I felt this franchise needed veteran winning NFL front office and head coaching to right this ship, and it hasn’t come about. And, because Randy Lerner doesn’t seem to have the character or committment to say nary two words to this loyal fan base. Because this organization needs passion and leadership, both on and off the field-I haven’t seen that in Mangini. Yes……fire….I feel that passion and emotion are part of the requirements on an NFL sideline.
I hope I’m wrong…….and you guys are right. My instincts tell me different-just trying to point out those reasons.
Craig……you got it…….I’m the same way……sports is all about opinions and debate.
@ Randy – I completely understand where you are coming from, but I am going to wait and see on this. Mangini’s teams were always prepared and showed discipline. This is a stark contrast from RAC. I have a feeling Mangini has a ton of fire behind the scenes. I will wait and see how he handles a smaller media market to judge what kind of passion he has.
We both want a winning football team. Luckily, I have the rest of the NBA season to keep me occupied until I have to worry about the Browns again