Jackets Preview Game #47
January 21, 2009Cavaliers Preview Game #40
January 21, 2009In life we often times like to apply terms of cosmic pseudo-science to explain the seemingly independent daily minutia we go through that ends up tied to some larger, greater, expected event. Itâs when the random moments somehow collide with events that were on a set course for a particular pre-determined destination. We use words like fate, karma, destiny, or kismet to explain these phenomena.
Perhaps itâs because we like to believe that nothing happens in and of itâs own accord. We like to believe that everything is following a certain planâŠ.a means to an end. We donât always agree on who started a certain chain events, we donât always agree on who is dictating what that pre-disposed end happens to be, but we feel comforted in knowing that everything is going according to some kind of plan.
But while we may use this line of thinking in the abstract, in a sort of big-picture overgeneralized panoramic photograph of life, it sometimes can make sense in the smaller, more insular world of sports. And sometimes, it can apply to something as seemingly trite as the process by which head coaches are selected in the NFL. Â
Weâve heard plenty of people suggest that the tandem of Eric Mangini and George Kokinis were somehow tied to fate. That it was Manginiâs destiny to end up as the Browns coach, and that the man behind the curtain pulling the strings on Manginiâs course to Berea was Browns owner Randy Lerner. But what if it was merely an âaccidentâ. What if Mangini was never really the pre-determined end game that so many of us assumed him to be?
Courtesy of Barry McBride’s Rumor Central over at The OBR, we have an inside glimpse of what might have happened here, via an email Barry received:
The *ONLY* reason Mangini was even interviewed was because his agent is Mark Shapiroâs father and the interview was done as a favor to Shapiro. Mangini was *NEVER* on the teams original interview list.  But he absolutely blew Lerner away in the interview and the owner became completely enamored by Mangini to what appears to be the teamâs detriment.
Apparently, Mangini did NOT leave the Jets on good terms.  There was plenty of lying and non communication to some of his players and he was not liked in that locker roomâŠ. period.
Oh. Ouch. Not exactly the kind of thing you want to read about your football franchise. Barry goes on to explain that this is now the 2nd source from which he has hear that Mangini was not on Lernerâs list of candidates and that the interview was granted more as a favor than anything else.
Barry is also quick to point out, however, that all indications were that Lerner was excited about the prospects of talking with Mangini from the moment he first found out that the Jets had fired him. But Barry stands by his sources as people he trusts.
If youâre not familiar with The OBRâs Rumor Central, itâs kind of a place where they can post things theyâve heard from different sources, but arenât solid enough to write as front page stories. Theyâre always meant as more of âFWIWâ type stories than anything else. So, you know, take it FWIW.
But the bigger question is, how should this make us feel as Browns fans? If true, should we feel reaffirmed that Lerner didnât just settle for the guy who was always his #1 choice? Or if true, should we feel concerned that Manginiâs reputation was so awful that it took a special favor from his agent just to get his foot in the door in Cleveland and that now the Brownsâ reputation among league circles is completely tarnished?
The typical response to questions like these is for Browns fans to ask Randy Lerner to sell the team. But Iâm here to also tell you to be careful what you wish for. Sometimes when you get new ownership, you end up with Carmen Policy running your football. Well, at least the Browns donât have to worry about that specific situation again. Or do they?
This is the 2nd part of the rumors Barry gave us today. Itâs a fabulous job by Barry of connecting the dots for us and painting a frightening picture. It starts with a report today in the St Petersburg Times in which they talk about Youngstown native and former San Francisco 49ers owner Eddie DeBartoloâs desire to get back into NFL team ownership. As Barry points out, this ties in perfectly with a tidbit that was buried inside an article by OBR Insider Lane Adkins a couple months ago:
– And a passing thought – it is believed that former Browns team president and minority owner Carmen Policy and former San Francisco 49ers team owner Ed DeBartolo wouldn’t mind getting back into the NFL.
Wait, DeBartolo AND Policy? It would be nice to think that they would only be interested in Tampa Bay and not Cleveland. But Barry passes along this story to give credence to DeBartoloâs potential interest in owning the Browns. Specifically, it says:
Iâve told this story before but itâs worth repeating.
One day, about 15 years ago, DawgGoneSouth and I were enjoying a quick lunch together when I spied Eddie DeBartolo munching with a few business associates.
After a few beers and on our way out, we sauntered out of the restaurant past his table and I slurred “Why donât you sell the f***y-niners and buy a good team like the Browns.”
DawgGoneSouth started barking and pumping his fist. DeBartolo smiled and said “I wish.”
For what itâs worth.
Now, granted, this is all a bunch of speculation and rumor, but these are people I trust giving out information from sources that they trust. So, as the story says, take it FWIW. But if you really think about it, this goes back to my original point about cosmic interference in our sports universe. Are we on an unstoppable train of destiny to a point where the Browns will be going up for sale, and where Eddie DeBartolo will make a strong push at buying our beloved Browns? If that happens, would there be any doubt that Carmen Policy would be back in control of our team? Kind of sends shivers down your spine just thinking about it.
If there is any kind of cosmic interference, I hope that we can build enough good karma to where Mangini works out better than any of us ever imagined and Lerner can regain the trust of the Cleveland Browns faithful.
[The Days Of Wine and Whine and Roses]
[Is Eric Mangini the âAccidental Coachâ?]
34 Comments
I, for one, am preparing for the second coming of the Butch Davis era.
Is any of this really surprising?
The Browns stopped ruining my days four years ago…..(And I have season tickets).
Its with stories like these where I wish that I weighed more so I could hang myself.
Well, the players didn’t like him. The Giants didn’t like Tom Coughlin either. How’s that working out?
The Browns players loved Romeo. How’d that work out?
Just tyring to find a positive in this mess
MacNip – Your glass is always half full. I just hope you’re right one of these days… đ
not well liked in the locker room? who cares. i want wins, not a family atmosphere in a room full of raving maniacs, criminals, and d-bags – WFNY edit. [Come on people, PLEASE read “Before You Comment” before you comment. Thank you.]
you can probably go back to past super bowl winning teams, and find that the players hated the coaches. someone mentioned coughlin. i know for sure guys hated ditka. people hated george halas. i’m sure there were folks who didn’t like jim brown, but mad it happen on the field (#32, anyone?)
also, as far as the mangini process? who cares? look at atlanta’s situation last year. screwed over by parcells, passed by a few coaches, and some no-name defensive coordinator takes them to the playoffs. their future is as bright as any in the nfl right now.
seems to me like it’s more about some cruddy browns fans making excuses for why we don’t win the super bowl next year.
Why did they have to censor the forty in f***y-niners?
*paul brown. i meant that jim brown was not his biggest fan, but for a few years they made it work.
also, i’ve read from several different sources, that players from the jets told the media they were sad to see mangini go, and wished him well, and they came out and said this, they weren’t asked for a response.
yeah, i’m sure guys on the jets didn’t like him, but find me a guy who can get all 53 egos to like him, and i’d say that guy was probably God himself.
Sorry…..but this whole Mangini thing makes me sick.
This was all known about Mangini………..by everyone outside of Cleveland.
Wish I could get excited about this guy………..all I can say is uggghhh.
For you guys who don’t seem to think there is any issue in what’s reported inside the locker room in regards to Mangini, wait until you see his sideline demeanor and his approach to fans and media.
Go ahead………say it just doesn’t matter. Ok……..fine.
@Tim: they guy didn’t say “forty”, and I’ll leave it at that. The uncensored version is on the OBR’s website, which I highly recommend everyone check out anyway.
@D-Train: Generally, I agree with you re how the players feel about the coach. The attitudes shown indicate they would benefit from a sheriff-type and to be scared straight. When a football player says, “He treats us like men” it often means “he doesn’t holler if we’re late for practice or if we jump offsides.” Was Parcells “liked,” or respected and feared by his players? If they start winning, the locker room will be happy enough. And if not, well, at least I’ll be happy.
As with any era, how the “ManKok” era will be determined is by who they bring in via the draft and free agency and how the team performs on the field.
If, as we hope this does, turn the Browns into consistent winners… these feelings of dread and despair will be gone.
If the Cardinals can make the Super Bowl, why can’t the Browns?
Isn’t 2009 the year of Hope? đ
Having said that: Randy, I have also read plenty about Mangini and his whole attitudes. For my mental health, I think I have to proceed for a while assuming Mangini is the best of Belichik, Parcells and Dungy. How many days until pitchers and catchers report?
How is this news? Mangini got a recommendation from a mutual colleague. Isn’t this how business works. Lerner may not have had him on his original list, but he wasn’t available when that list was drawn up, in all likely hood. Once Mangini was became available, Lerner decided to give him a shot. He liked his interview. It’s called networking, connections, whatever you want, it’s a common business practice in all job fields.
Also, there are more reports of Mangini being liked by his players than vice versa. He may have been disliked by the media for his demeanor with them, but look who’s reporting these “stories.” Seriously, if you think if Favre wasn’t involved that Mangini gets fired, you’re mistaken.
If Mangini works out and we bring in decent players and coaching staff, you think anyone will care how Lerner came to interview him?
Coach is still a major factor obviously, but damn. I’m worried about getting to the season with a decent quarterback.
wow….this is amazing at how negative people are here.
we hired a coach who had a winning record 2 out of 3 years he coached in the NFL.
we were not hiring Cowher (turned us down) or Shanahan (put us off) and Parcells is staying put in Miami. Who, exactly, do you guys want that was out there to run our team?
We have a proven head coach who hired a proven DC (Rob Ryan) who was successful in every stop before Oakland (and was successful in Oakland until Al Davis made him switch to a 4-3 2 years ago). We have a proven ST coach who is well-regarded for his 10 year service to NE as they had among the best ST in the NFL during his tenure.
We do have an unproven, relatively young OC in Daboll. That is still a concern but let’s give the guy a shot before we bury him.
Our FO…Kokinis seems close to done at this point. If so, we have an experienced guy in pro-personnel, and experienced scouting department that has worked together for 4 years (we did not dissolve our scouting dept), and a head of college scouting who is well regarded in the NFL (TJ McCreight).
I fail to see why we should be all doom and gloom whether or not Mangini was Lerner’s first choice.
Another guy who was given an interview as a favor was Mike Tomlin. Think the Rooney’s are sad that they made that hire? Maybe ask them after their superbowl appearance.
In the meantime, take a deep breath and enjoy the couting process for the draft. We should get a couple good pieces with our first couple picks at the very least.
@cribbage: It’s news because NOBODY else other than the OBR has reported that Mangini only got an interview as a favor to his father in law. I agree with most of your sentiment. I’m not near as down on the Mangini hire as most people are. As the article says, take it for what it’s worth. I found it to be an interesting tidbit.
Gruden. Fire Mangini now that hes available and bring some discipline to this mess of a franchise, as well as a super bowl winner.
my mistake on the expletive, i thought d-bag (in it’s regular form) was acceptable, as i have heard it used on the radio several times (and seriously, you can’t get away with anything on the radio)
won’t happen again. hopefully all the women and children that read WFNY were tucked into bed already.
but come on guys, let’s give mangini a chance to screw up before we start moaning and groaning about him.
the media hates belichick, i’ve heard players don’t like him, but the man wins.
wins are all we want and need in cleveland, folks.
besides, maybe being snug and short will make mary kay cabot and tony grossi quit their jobs, and we can bring in some legitimate beat reporters.
@Nick….Gruden…haha. that was funny.
I don’t think we have enough QBs on our roster for him. Though he will like the fact we’ve started a different QB week1 almost every year the past 7 (I believe we are 6/7…and about to be 7/8 with Quinn this upcoming year)
Sorry, it was 6 of 8 years with different QBs and possibly now 7 of 9.
Also, stellar 1-7 record in week 1 the past 8 years. Sigh.
2009 Brady Quinn?
2008 Derek Anderson (lost to Dal)
2007 Charlie Frye (lost to Pit…benched at halftime)
2006 Charlie Frye (lost to NO)
2005 Trent Dilfer (lost to Cincy)
2004 Jeff Garcia (beat Baltimore)
2003 Kelly Holcomb (lost to Indy)
2002 Kelly Holcomb (lost to KC…helmet throw game)
2001 Tim Couch (lost to SEA)
I am so trying to resist posting on these anymore. Cannot… help… myself…
First, thank you for bringing this to our attention, Rockking. Very interesting stuff–I have now bookmarked the OBR rumor mill.
Some of the things I read there concern me, but I already had concerns about Berea… I see a pattern with two major concerns brought up again here:
1. “…that now the Brownsâ reputation among league circles is completely tarnished?”
This breaks my heart. Our once-proud franchise has become a laughingstock in league circles. And regardless of what you may think, whether we care about that or not, that directly affects our ability to attract talent. Not just on the field, but in the coaching ranks and throughout the front office as well. A career for these guys in Cleveland becomes less attractive to top-tier talent at all levels. The Randolph is unnecessarily handicapping his team.
2. Randy falls in love with the first HC he interviews. Every time. I wish I could have finagled lunch with the guy, I’d love a crack at that salary… đ
As for Eddie Debartolo, I saw the rumors about his interest in Tampa Bay… hadn’t considered any impact on Cleveland. Carmen Policy left much to be desired during his time in Cleveland to be sure… though I’d still like to see what he’d have done with a qualified GM working for him. Dwight Clark was a horrible choice.
That said, the Debartolo-Policy pairing brought five Superbowls to SF. Lerner hasn’t brought five winning seasons to CLE (indeed, just five wins a season has been too difficult for him.)
Not sayin’… just sayin’….
@mj: don’t forget, though, the 49ers all but one of those Super Bowls before the salary cap era, and the one they won under the salary cap, they were found guilty of cheating the cap.
Neither one has shown an ability to lead a successful team under the current financial landscape of the NFL.
You’re absolutely right, Rockking… I just had to point that out. đ
I hate questioning anybody about their opinions, cause we all know, opinions are like…well…um….yeah….everyones got one, and believe their’s is right. I’m no different. I agree with the optimists here. Let’s give the guy/team/orginization a chance in’09 before we bury them as the second coming of the Detroit Lions. I’m on board with Mangini. I’m on board with the new GM, whoever it will be. I’m on board with Lerner. Hell, I’m just on board with the Browns. Here we go Brownies……Here we go…..
As for whether or not players “like” Mangini, consider the following:
In the excellent book “Boys will Boys,” Jeff Pearlman (highly recommended reading, even if you hate Dallas), highlights that it was Jimmy Johnson’s tough, regimented, take no guff from his players attitude, swagger packed deameanor, and shrewd draft/free agent decisions turned the Cowboys into the 90s juggernaut that won three Super Bowls in 4 years (although the third team was coached by Barry Switzer), though he wasn’t “liked.”
After Johnson left was when Jerry Jones began his bonehead decisions that were one of the key factors, the others being a mounting lack of discipline by Switzer’s coaching culture and players’ off the field “shenanigans” that brought down a franchise that has to date, not returned to the Super Bowl and hasn’t done well in the playoffs. The book mentions most players loved him as a person, but was not an effective coach. (romeo, anyone?)
There’s probably somewhere in the middle on this, since Mangini has a reputation for discipline, but obviously players respected and/or liked him if they went to the press to voice their displeasure with his firing. That could be a good sign.
In conclusion, Mangini (and probably Kokinis) deserves a chance. I’m as pessimistic as the next Browns fan, but hey, they should at least get a shot.
I thought Debartalo ended up with gambling interests within the family that exclude potential NFL ownership. Plus, I don’t think he’s the typicical plutocrat that is presently buying teams.
Things are VERY different than 15 years ago. The people buying NFL teams are multi-billionaires. Debartalo is insanely wealthy but he’s not in that “Russian Oil Tyconn” level that seems to be the new wave of NFL ownership.
Let’s get this thing sold to a Middle-Eastern Oil Consortium and move on already! Money Talks!
Can someone point me to a coach who has won a Super Bowl and is one of those all the players love him type coaches? Dick Vermill? That’s the only one off the top of my head that hasn’t looked ice cold on the sidelines. We saw what being friends instead of a boss has done for the Browns, jack and squat, and Jack left town.
This team NEEDS a firm hand, one who gonna take Braylon by the collar and sit his happy ass down if he keeps dropping routine catches. One who isn’t just going to allow W2 to jump offsides all the time. For once there should actually be a sense of order and leadership that this team hasn’t had since we returned from the brink.
You know Patton was pretty much hated because he was a mean old B@$tard, but he was effective and knew how to win. I can only hope Mangini is the same.
@bridge: DeBartolo was suspended from ownership. He’s eligible to own again if he can afford it. And to that point, the Tampa St Pete article says he wants to form a group to buy it. He doesn’t need to be able to afford it by himself, just needs some rich friends to help him.
Have you guys seen this? I doubt many people are still peeking into this discussion, but this may be fodder for a new topic:
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/21/kokinis-deal-coming-but-will-lerner-stop-there/#comment-196757
I missed the earlier Peter King article referenced there, but if Lerner really is looking to bring in a Parcells-type overseer (King speculates about Holmgren, I don’t care, we just need someone qualified to keep things on track and hold everyone accountable in Lerner’s absence) I will have to seriously reconsider my opinion and recent criticism of the man.
I’ll still be scratching my head that he seems to be hiring from the bottom-up, but I’d be glad to see him addressing the problem. It’s a start.
I think Lerner has been working from the bottom up because he saw the Coach as the most vital part of the equation and needing the most prep time. Then he needed a GM, but he knew his GM candidates were going to be held up by the playoffs and he didn’t want to handicap the coach due to waiting for the GM. He knows that he then needs a Prez, but this is the least of his concerns now but the position is not as time critical. Lerner basically said as much in his radio interview on 850AM.
So does anyone think Mangini was completely against bringing in Favre, but the GM did it anyways causing Mangini to sour his relationships with the team?
Oh you know Mangini had to hate the Favre idea. You know he heard about him not going to meetings and what not in Green Bay and being that type of coach he knew this going to be a problem. Hell, I wouldn’t be shocked if he wanted to bench Favre at the end but management denied him.