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February 27, 2009Andy Marte Needs to Become the Next Cliff Lee
February 27, 2009
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From a team press release, Kellen Winslow has been traded to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers for undisclosed draft picks. More on this as it develops, of course. In the statement, GM George Kokinis was quoted:
The Cleveland Browns thank Kellen for his contributions to this organization over the past five years. We appreciate his passion for the game and wish him success in Tampa Bay. The draft picks we have obtained through this deal will give us greater flexibility as we look to infuse more talent and create competition and depth on this football team.
Upon first glance, my take on this was Austin Powers-esque: “First, I plan to soil myself. Then, I plan to regroup and come up with new plan.” In other words, when I heard it, I first thought, “NOOOOO!!!” But, when you think about it, it really all depends on the draft picks. Kokinis explicitly said “picks” in the plural form, so we should assume at least two picks.
If we’re talking about one as a first rounder, then, by all means best of luck Kellen. But, with a thin WR corps already, and many other questions marks on both sides of the football, it’s hard to trade one of your best players. If we’re talking like a third and a sixth or something, then I’ll be a little upset that they couldn’t get more.
This also begs the questions: are they targeting another pass catcher in FA? At the top of the draft? Do they like Martin Rucker and Steve Heiden?
Again, more as we know more, but it is now official: the Kellen Winslow era in Cleveland is OVER.
UPDATE: Here’s a link with the text of the release from the ABJ: Browns trade Kellen Winslow. Still no news on the picks themselves.
60 Comments
That was my first thought too, immediately thinking, “crap! why not braylon!” If it is a 1st and something or a 2nd and 3rd then I can see it. Also, I always thought Heiden was pretty reliable, so the picks cant hurt..
jury is out on whether this will pay off. Personally, I’m like you DP: sad to see Winslow go, as he was a warrior who could’ve started on a super bowl-caliber team. Let’s just hope there’s some creation emerging from all the chaos in Berea.
I am dying to know what these draft picks are!!! If it’s anything less than a 2nd and a 3rd then this is not a good thing….
depends on the picks. i knew he’d be traded, but i didn’t think it would happen so quick. i too have been a fan of heiden. maybe this also means that they are making plans to have another smaller running back to share time with Jamal, and they need Heiden’s blocking ability for it (something K2 couldn’t do). who knows. interesting to see how this pans out. but i really want to know how high these picks are.
crap! i agree…intense and passionate. hate to lose him.
fingers crossed for a first rounder…but i doubt it. Tampa has the 19th overall pick…can’t believe that they would trade that for a TE with a history of injuries…
maybe a 2nd rounder?
I won’t judge until the picks are disclosed, but still. Who are we throwing the ball to? Braylon’s problems are well documented, Joey J isn’t completely healthy, who knows what you’ll get from Stallworth. Rucker played as many snaps as I did last year, and Heiden is better in the lay-low type role, catching passes when least expected.
And what does this mean for the QB situation? If Brady were to be the starter, wouldn’t you want Winslow since he likes to throw it short?
Ahhh, life as a Browns fan.
My initial reaction was “crap!” as well, but ya know what, he’s a 20-something man going on his late 30s. I loved his passion for the game and his nasty attitude, but there is no denying that the Browns need draft picks.
Let’s hope these “undisclosed draft picks” can be used this year, are high picks and the right player is taken.
I hate this move.
Hopefully we strike it big with the draft picks. I’ve never been big on the unknown of draft picks. why not trade a player like K2 for a successful veteran, and a low draft pick? I think with all the holes the Browns have, that would help us fill in spots better.
I think we could see this coming… K2 didn’t change agents to not renegotiate, and a Dallas Clark-type deal (his FA contract is what motivated K2 to make a change) is a huge risk with K2 at this point, as broken down as his body is. I hate to see him go, I think he really fit the kind of player Mangini wants (regardless of his off-field problems, he is 100% focused on football, unlike Braylon.) And with the limited cap space the Browns have thanks to Savage’s poor management, they may not have been able to do much, even if they wanted to.
But does anyone really expect that we’d get a 1st rounder for him? I’d be overjoyed with that, but I’m thinking TB’s #2 may be the ceiling.
Regardless, Mankok’s got guts. I can’t see this being a popular move, so kudos for going out on a limb… as long as they didn’t give him away (Savage always undervalued our draft picks, seemed to give up way too much… hopefully they’ve turned that corner with the new regime.) Very interested to see what we got and what they do with it.
Hmm…maybe they push hard for TJ Housh?
Braylon better have his bags packed as well. I imagine they have no interest in him either. I hate this move
First rounders, are you guys kidding? Mankok got jobbed for “undisclosed draft picks”. Try and replace that kind of young talent……..well, perhaps Mankok doesn’t like egos in his clubhouse.
“as long as they win”.
“shaun is a piece of crap”
“grossi and mary kay are garbage”
Right?
Viva la Mankok.
Can we just skip ahead four yeas until after Brady Quinn is proven to be the unequivocal bust that he’s destined to be and we hire the next coach/GM team?
Mangkok are already murdering this team’s future.
i am furious at this move, unless it’s a 1st rounder and a 3rd or 4th. Sure the guy could be a pain in the ass, but you knew he was bringing 100% on the field, even if he was only at 75% strength. A leader by example, and really our most dependable receiver, this is a shame.
@mj: that’s it, and what I’ve repeated ad nauseum here. This is about Drew Rosenhaus, and the obvious fear that Kellen would hold his breath and stand in the corner during training camp, demanding a renegotiation. They fear this would mess up Mangini’s attempt to impose a new discipline, and that his trade value for picks next year would drop once he demanded out of here unless he got more money. What ever they received, I think Kokinis anticipated his value is highest right now, and they can work this draft a little with the extra picks. I’m sure all the players are now snapping to attention. Expect lots of player whining, amd maybe more moves soon.
LOL.. well, I’m going to reserve judgment until we start playing next season. Hey… maybe they know what they’re doing.
How long can they wait to “disclose” the picks??
I’m guessing no higher than 3rd round.
Don’t forget that Heiden blew out his knee, so who knows if he’ll even be able to play this season? Rucker and Dinkins don’t exactly strike fear in the heart of a defense.
Winslow is a non-essential player who stands to make big money and has bad wheels. He has had surgery every offseason of his career and isn’t getting any healthier. I think this article will shed some light on what we need to do and what I hope we do.
http://www.nologoneeded.com/no_logo_needed/2008/11/looking-for-a-defensive-blueprint.html
It is about building a defense up the middle and it is the same for offense (Line, QB, and RB) you do not need big money TE and WR to win championships and I think this move shows great football knowledge on their part. I do hope we got at least a 2nd and another pick for him, but if not we would have lost him for nothing anyway because he would have wanted paid big dollars. Another thing we all need to realize is that Mangini is going to run the ball a TON and Winslow was an adequate blocker at best
Also heard from a Tampa site it was a 3rd and 7th
Anybody dismissing this without knowing what we got is an idiot and probably just has a kellen jersey!
I agree Kellen is a warrior and stud tight end. On the other hand I think it is one if not the only position were we have true depth. Heiden is a solid TE. That being said I unfortunately agree that it is probably not a first round pick. My breakeven point is a 2nd and a 4th. Hopefully it’s a 2nd and a 3rd and I’m happy.
We’ll see.
@Harv21 – I’m totally on board with you. It’s not just about the talent. I don’t believe Winslow would have taken the field again here absent a record contract, and I can’t see him being worth the risk.
@RandyOSU – do you really think K2 is worth giving a Dallas Clark type of contract to?
Also, it’s worth noting that Sporting News reported (some 10minutes after the trade was announced) that contract negotiations are already underway between Rosenhaus and TB. I suspect K2 will be the highest-paid TE in the NFL when all is said and done. Even if the Browns wanted to do that, Savage didn’t leave them the cap room to get it done.
“Also heard from a Tampa site it was a 3rd and 7th”
OUCH.
For what its worth (from rotoworld.com):
“We’ll guess it’s a second-round pick and a late-rounder. The Bucs will likely give Winslow a new contract too, so it’s a costly move. They needed the pass-catching help badly, though, and Winslow is still only 25 even if he’s had knee problems in the past. He’s not a great bet to play deep into his 30s, and he’s going from one QB controversy to another shaky situation. We don’t see it particularly helping his fantasy outlook. Winslow has averaged over five catches a game the last three seasons and is one of the league’s top five receiving tight ends.”
I don’t even understand this. I disliked the Kellen Winslow pick. A pass catching TE is a luxury item. Like putting GPS navigation system into a Fiat. Maybe we should upgrade the rest of the team first.
I’d be happy with a 6th and a 7th, if it means we can use Winslow’s money to bring in some useful free agents.
Another Tampa site is saying 2nd and 5th
just read another TB site that claims to have an “inside source” it was a 2nd and 5th, which i can live with
http://www.bucem.com/2009/2/27/774172/bucs-acquire-kellen-winslo#comments
With this draft especially, I would be ok with a 2nd and 3rd, but all other things considered (money and contract extensions), I still think he’d be worth a 1st rounder, and amprobably gonna be dissappointed with anything less.
From ESPN.com:
“The Browns have been an enigma lately as they surprised the entire NFL by going 10-6 two years ago, then disappointed amid high expectations last season with a 4-12 finish. One of the first assignments for Mangini and first-year GM George Kokinis was to figure out whether the team is closer to its ’07 finish or ’08.
After spending the past month reviewing game tape, it appears the pair reached the conclusion that it’s time to turnover the roster, starting with this blockbuster deal on the first day of free agency.”
I think the team was closer to a playoff team with some coaching (as opposed to the no coaching they had the last 4 years) and a talent upgrade at linebacker. I guess ManKok doesn’t agree. Playoffs in 2012!!
Thanks for the link, Z_NoLogoNeeded. A #2 and #5 sounds much better. Mankok may keep it undisclosed, but at some point the NFL or TB will break the official news.
I’m okay with this move. Winslow might be young, but his body seems old. Injuries have taken their toll and he will seemingly never be that Tony Gonzalez-type tight end everyone expected him to be. Now he is still a good TE, but a 2nd and 5th sounds about right.
Why am i not surprised with this new regime it is UNDISCLOSED. I like that they don’t spill their guts to the media. At least they’re consistent.
I agree with #18 – I love the player and his ability but I don’t trust his health. I would gladly see someone on the team that we can count on being health and play every week at 100%
“With this draft especially, I would be ok with a 2nd and 3rd, but all other things considered (money and contract extensions), I still think he’d be worth a 1st rounder, and amprobably gonna be dissappointed with anything less.”
Rosenahaus as K2’s agent significantly depresses Winslow’s trade value, though. He had a manageable contract here, but with the acquiring team knowing they’re going to have to pay a premier FA contract makes it unlikely they’re going to also give up premium draft picks to get him. Phil Savage would do it, but a good GM knows better.
I just thought of another thing……Shockey got traded last year for a 2nd and 5th, so that makes sense that it would be relatively the same for Winslow
What sane NFL exec would have given a #1 for him? He admits to having lost physical abiliy since his motorcycle adventure, he can’t practice regularly and, while he might have the best hands since Dante Lavelli, his skill set for a tight end is fairly narrow (useless as a run blocker, lack of discipline on the field). I like the guy as a player, he’s one of the few players we had that opposing coordinator’s had to even account for, but if we are going smash mouth and he won’t/can’t block, and he is demanding a ton of money against the cap, I think Kokinis just decided he was a luxury we could not afford; how can you justify the marble countertops when the roof is leaking? Having said all that, could they have squeezed out a second rounder from someone on draft day? That’s the only thing bothering me.
There is NO WAY they can trade edwards now. He is our only semi-threat. We now have blocking te’s, an old rb, and one decent WR.
maybe this frees up more plays for Stallworth. he is not as big of a scrub as he was last year with us. he had productive years in Philly and New England.
No, Stallworth is a scrub. That’s why those teams let him go after 1 season.
Let me get this straight, one of the top 5 TEs in the league and best player on our team for an undisclosed (probably not a 1st round) draft pick. Awesome.
So since Mangini has been here he has made our best defensive player want to leave and our best offensive player has been traded. I like the way this is going.
I think the big news is 1. what did the Browns get? 2. How much will Drew Rosenhaus get TB to pay?
It is completely possible that Winslow’s demands were going to be so absolutely insane in terms of a new contract that the Browns just couldn’t deal with it. There is a lot of news to be reported before we can close the history books on this thing.
agreed Craig…#1 offensive weapon or not, if we couldn’t afford him, better to cut our losses and get a solid pick out of it.
I’m just hoping that it’s at least a #2.
Should have been Brickhands Edwards.
The sad fact is: we won’t know how well this trade worked out for a couple of years. We have to know what picks we’re getting, and then wait until the draft to see how those picks are used, and then wait two or three years to see how those players develop.
I’m really torn on this. I don’t think anyone has worked harder than Kellen or played with more enthusiam. But football is a violent sport, how many more years does anyone think Kellen’s knee has. It‘s a ticking time boom and at some level, I’m relieved we were able to get something in return for him.
D’oh, I meant ticking time bomb.
Wait a second guys…Cleveland might already have a TE lined up!!
LeBron James to the rescue!!!!!!
i mean, we got shaun rogers for a 3 and leigh bodden (who did nothing). How is a 2+5 bad for an always injured TE?
Kellen has great hands. But Heiden is also a very good player. Tight end is a position of depth on this team and, with so many holes to fill, I think this is a good trade.
So, you want to put something in the context of what Detroit does??