June 20, 2013

While We’re Waiting… KG, Maualuga, and Alex Mack to Start Your Day

April 30, 2009 by 40 Comments

While We’re Waiting aims to be the round-up of the recent WFNY-esque information for your morning viewing. Have something you think we should see? Send it to our tips email in the sidebar.

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So it goes: “A lot of speculation has been going around about what exactly the intentions were behind my decision to enter my name into the draft. Some called it a publicity stunt. Others called it…yeah, pretty much everyone called it a publicity stunt.” [Mark Titus/Club Trillion]

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On KG’s constant growling: “The question is, has Garnett always been this intensely arrogant and he just got a free pass because he played for the TWolves and everyone felt sorry for him and the losing ways he had to put up with? Or perhaps he was always this loudly irritating and it was merely a case of noone hearing it (if a KG barks in the woods of Minnesota and noone is there, does it make a noise?).” [A Stern Warning]

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Maybe Mangini and Kokinis do have a plan even if they aren’t sharing it with us. “Len Pasquarelli of ESPN.com wrote an excellent story about how three centers were selected in the top 50, with Louisville’s Eric Wood (Buffalo) and Mack (Browns) in the first round. He wrote that since 2000, the only first-round centers were Jeff Faine (Browns, 2003), Chris Spencer (Seattle, 2005) and Nick Mangold (Jets, 2006) — until this season. The reason? He believes it’s the rise of the 3-4 defense, now there will be 12 teams (including Pittsburgh and Baltimore) playing it. That defense puts a huge nose tackle right over the center — and more stress on the center to block him.” [Terry Pluto]

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Cleveland Frowns chides all the people who passed on Maualuga. “So what did the kid do to drop first into the middle of the first round, and then all the way to the Bengals at the sixth pick in the second round? Why would the Browns — a team with a glaring hole at linebacker, and a glaring lack of AFC North-required toughness on defense — pass on this guy to draft Brian Robiskie? As best we can tell, its because Maualuga drank booze drinks and got in some fights when he was a freshman in college, and made fun of ESPN sideline princess Erin Andrews when he was a senior.” [ClevelandFrowns]

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And stay tuned to WFNY today as we have TD’s presumably scathing commentary on the Tribe coming at 10:00 AM.

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  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com DP

    I find the argument made in the Cleveland Frowns article to be weak at best, and offensive at worst.

    Regarding the substance abuse counseling that Maualuga was forced to undergo, it’s worth remembering that America is a regressive nanny state when it comes to booze and drugs. Any kid under 21 who’s caught with a millimeter of foam in his Solo cup may be forced into counseling at an angry cop’s whim.

    And you know what? The NFL suspends people for this. If you don’t think Rey is ALREADY in the NFL’s substance abuse program, you’re kidding yourself. By your rationale, it’s OK to draft people with this red flag, even though he may not be on the field half the time if he has a relapse.

    When people find out it becomes a big deal. Just like it was a big deal when people found out that Randy Moss smoked weed when he was in college. A big DUMB deal. Really really really dumb. Not only did Moss get booted from the Florida State program for this, it caused 20 NFL teams to pass on a guy who was obviously one of the most freakishly talented athletes to play the wide receiver position in American football history.

    And, Moss has clearly been a solid citizen his entire career. He hasn’t been ENABLED by his “freakish talent” which has allowed him to bend/break the rules and force his way out of two different cities… including one team on which he ADMITTED he quit. Those are the kinds of players we need, yep!

    Seriously. Weak argument.

  • Ricky

    I love Rey, but he is probably best suited for a 4-3 anyways

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com DP

    And, ironically, I was in favor of drafting Rey with our first second rounder. I just don’t have a problem with them passing on him for these reasons.

  • MrCleaveland

    There are two reasons why I’m comfortable that the Browns did not draft Rey:

    1. Every team with a first-round pick passed on him, even the head-case-loving Bengals.

    2. The head-case-loving Bengals love him.

  • bridgecrosser

    Todd MacShay (sic?) was on Reghi’s show yesterday around 315pm. He said teams were more concerned about Rey’s inability to play within a system, and his focus – much more so than his drinking, etc.

    He continued that those events were mainly his soph/junior years around when his dad died… and his senior year Ken Norton Jr. (his position coach at USC) said he was good his senior year on the social front.

    Let’s face it… Rey was going to be a 2nd round pick at worst, even if the Bengals didn’t take him. It’s not like he’s a total stiff or anything…

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com DP

    I agree, bridge. I just don’t have a problem with the team coming out and saying they passed on him because of character issues… especially ones involving substance abuse.

  • Swig

    I find the argument made in the Cleveland Frowns article to be weak at best, and offensive at worst.
    This is par for the course, I wish you guys would stop linking to it. It’s not insightful, logical or well written.

    Although it does generate a lot of comments here, if that’s like your goal and stuff.

  • Humboldt

    It’s silly to give up on a guy who is 20-odd years old and can potentially be an impact player. Sometimes you can out-think yourself in these sorts of situations, and I think most teams were guilty of paralysis of analysis.

    Pardon if this is out of context, but with regards to Rey I’m reminded of the Nietzsche quote: “One must always have chaos in oneself if he is to give birth to a dancing star.”

    Were his character issues egregious enough to give up on the guy? I kind of like that he has that streak to him — good coaching/leadership will be able to channel that chaotic energy in positive ways

  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com Cleveland Frowns

    DP: We didn’t know that the NFL suspends its players for drinking beer. When did that rule take effect?

    Seriously, that’s what the issues surrounding Maualuga come from. You get caught drinking in college, you suffer ridiculously severe consequences. Everyone does it. Very few get caught. And as Ken Norton pointed out, it’s a big deal when a star does get caught. Then it allows teams to hide behind “character” as a reason for not picking a guy. It’s ridiculous.

    As for Moss, if you think he wasn’t worth a top 5 pick coming out in hindsight then it’s hard to respond to you. Similarly hard to respond to not recognizing the value of someone who is clearly one of the most powerful offensive weapons in NFL history. It’s worth noting, though, that the team you say he quit on was the Raiders.

    If that’s all you’ve got re: Maualuga, we might have to conclude you were a D.A.R.E. officer in high school, DP. Which we couldn’t blame you for, but it would explain what’s behind your argument.

    Bridgecrosser: As for McShay’s claim re: “focus,” Maualuga’s apparent lack of focus hardly seemed to impact his unit’s performance on the field.

    Humbolt: Fantastic quote.

  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com Cleveland Frowns

    No. Of course not, if he beats the crap out of someone. But the only time he did that was his freshman year in college.

  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com Cleveland Frowns

    Man, I’m really not trying to be a jerk. You guys understand the frustrations of Cleveland fans as well as anyone. Isn’t it always the Draft where the Ravens and Steelers kill us? We know what we saw when we watched the guy play, and we figure that the Ravens/Steelers/other teams passed on him for what is a bad reason. Think Rey was our big chance to get over on them, finally. Anyway, of course we’ll see soon enough.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com DP

    So, let’s say he gets drunk and beats somebody up in a bar. Or drives his car home and wrecks it. Or any number of things that can happen when he’s drunk. You don’t think the NFL would discipline him?

    I love that your response when someone disagrees with you is to try to make some pithy joke about D.A.R.E., which has no bearing what-so-ever on the actual argument other than to attempt to make fun of me, I guess. For whatever it’s worth, I was hardly a choirboy in college; but I’ve also seen what alcohol issues can do to a family, both in my own and in the families of friends. To make light of someone’s potential issues with alcohol with a joke about D.A.R.E. is such an enlightened position.

    What’s behind my argument? Nothing more than what I said. Your contention is that the Browns shouldn’t have passed on a player simply because of character issues, whereas my argument is that I have no problem with them doing so. Where I called your argument “weak” stems from two things:
    1) Comparing Rey to Randy Moss (when you yourself admit that Moss deserves the benefit of the doubt IN HINDSIGHT) is a stretch at best
    2) Randy Moss is a great talent, yes, but he’s more the exception than the rule. So was Lawrence Phillips. So was Michael Vick. Odell Thurman was talented when the Bengals drafed him. So was Chris Henry. So is Andre Smith… etc. My point is this: The Bengals have had no problems overlooking character flaws in their draft picks, and how has that worked out for them? So, by my rationale, you shouldn’t punish the Browns for electing to pass on someone for what they deem as character issues, especially when it’s their jobs on the line, not yours.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com Denny

    @ Frowns : It’s the draft, aaaaaaand also free agency. Aaaand on the field. Aaand in organizational stability. I wouldn’t link it solely to the draft.

  • Lyon

    I’m on DPs side all the way here. If the Browns didn’t want to take that chance on this guy, whether it be for character or flaws in his game, who cares?

  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com Cleveland Frowns

    The D.A.R.E. comment was made to highlight the conclusion that people are being irrationally judgmental about Maualuga based on the fact that he got caught drinking in college. I’m heavily influenced by cultures where children are served wine at the dinner table (these cultures having far fewer issues with substance abuse than ours) and am openly critical of America’s prohibitive approach with respect to these things. This doesn’t mean I’m not sensitive to the fact that lack of moderation can lead to big problems. My view is that by demonizing these substances (that were probably made by the same thing that made us, whatever it is), we have a hard time forming healthy relationships with them. It kills me that I think my Maualuga dreams in Orange and Brown is yet another casualty of this outlook that I already despise so much. So for whatever else I might be wrong about, I assure you that my D.A.R.E. comment was not a product of your merely disagreeing with me.

    Comparing Maualuga getting caught drinking and getting into a fight or two at U.S.C. with what Lawrence Phillips, Michael Vick, and even Chris Henry did is relatively absurd.

    As far as jobs being on the line, it would have been one of three second round picks. Cannot imagine that we’d ever look back and regret not drafting Maualuga for Robiskie. I think if it didn’t work out with Rey, it would have been one that Browns fans would have easily lived with.

  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com Cleveland Frowns

    Sorry: Cannot imagine that we’d ever look back and regret drafting Maualuga instead of Robiskie.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com DP

    The point with those guys is not that what Rey did compares to what they did. The point is that they ALL missed time for disciplinary reasons. The NFL suspends EVERYONE that has issues, not just the guys that do *really* bad stuff.

    I’m not here to bash Rey’s character. I know that nobody’s perfect; as I said, I was far from a choirboy in my school days.

    I also know that the NFL is tough on guys who have legal/substance issues. I’m not trying to debate whether the scrutiny on those issues is fair or not; I’m only looking at it from the standpoint of the Browns’ decision to pass on a guy for character issues ONLY in the context of what the NFL does to guys who get into legal/substance abuse trouble.

    As for the D.A.R.E. thing, what I inferred from the comment was: “I understand why you’re ripping on Rey for his alcohol issues. You must have been a square in high school.” Honestly, it came off smacking of “you’re just an uptight dork who probably didn’t drink in school, so you have no idea what you’re talking about.” If that’s not what you meant, then my apologies, but I hope you’ll pardon me if I thought it was pretty low-brow.

  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com Cleveland Frowns

    Fair enough. Appreciate the response. It seems to me that Rey’s issues are behind him. There might be good football reasons not to have taken him, but I haven’t heard any yet. Of course, only time will tell. Never a dull moment in Browns Town.

  • kevin

    “Comparing Maualuga getting caught drinking and getting into a fight or two at U.S.C. with what Lawrence Phillips, Michael Vick, and even Chris Henry did is relatively absurd. ”

    So you are saying to take the risk that this kid won’t do something in the future similar to those guys. But if he does do that in the future the Browns are screwed. They don’t want to take that risk and the only way to not take that risk is to not draft him. You can’t “undraft” him in the future and get a pick back.

  • Humboldt

    @ Kevin – sometimes you have to gamble on potential impact players, no matter their warts. To me (and to Cfrowns and others) Rey was worth that risk. DP and others have a different assessment of cost/benefit, which is fine. I’m happy to leave it at that and say the answer will emerge in the next 1-2 years

  • bobby

    I would just like to point something out in this debate that happened above. If Rey was so good, and Pitt and Balt. beat uss through the draft, then why did they not take him at the end of the first where he was projected? Scott is out of Baltimore, wouldn’t Rey be the perfect fill in, a guy who can make hard hits, be the heir to Lewis’ throne? Obviously the Ravens found something they didnt like in Rey. The Steelers just dropped one of their ILBs. You think Rey would be good working with Timmons in the middle, and having 2 somoans on the team.

    My point: Its the football issues that teams passed on him. As stated many times before and after the draft, he over pursues plays, does not follow any system on the field, and therefore is an undisciplined player. Maybe coaching could fix that, but the Ravens and Steelers didn’t think so. When people were debating Rey or Curry at 5 overall, they said that Rey had to fight for tackles and stats with the other LBs. Well the other USC LBs were selected before him. With the bevy of NFL talent on the USC team, I think Rey’s stats were actually inflated, because other players could make that giant hole, or take on the last blocker, and Rey never had to deal with that stuff. No wonder how he could go sideline to sideline. His highlight film is pretty sweet, but I do not think we will hear a lot from him on the Bungals.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com Denny

    @ # 18 – what about his flying around like a chicken with his head cut off, missing assignments, etc trying to get the big hit?

    His coaches knew there were flaws in his play. He got the benefit of having two first-round LBs playing with him. I’m not saying the guy isn’t a heck of a player, but there’s a reason the other two guys went ahead of him.

  • Scotty

    “Comparing Maualuga getting caught drinking and getting into a fight or two at U.S.C. with what Lawrence Phillips, Michael Vick, and even Chris Henry did is relatively absurd. ”

    The more ridiculous part of that post is that although you think it’s absurd to compare him to those guys with their off the field behavior, you have no problem comparing his talent to Randy Moss. It’s a double edged sword man.

  • Jay

    I think the glaring issue here is the reason we took Robiskie ahead of Maualuga was out of pure need. We have/had one bonifide WR on our team. Stallworth is all but done, and leaves us with Cribbs (who you want to keep fresh for ST and/or Wildcat, Steptoe, Patten (possesion receiver at best), and someone else I can’t think of right now. With the off-season FA additions on defense, I think drafting Robiskie was a good call.

  • Morph

    The good football reason is the Rey is out for himself. The reason why the “Unit” was really good is because it was constantly covering for Rey when he got out of position. There is a reason so many team including 12 3-4 team (several drafting in the last half of the 1st round and into the second) passed on the guy – he is going to leave his teammates out to dry. When a player constantly goes for the big hit he is looking for the SportsCenter’s center highlight. That means he is putting himself before the team, which is by the way also character issue for some teams.

  • Jake

    Also with Moss, let’s not forget who was mentoring him out of college–Cris Carter. I don’t really think the Browns have a hall of fame linebacker to take Rey under his wing, get him to play better AND stay out of trouble. That was half the reason the Vikings were willing to take the chance on moss that year, if you remember.

  • kevin

    @ Humboldt: totally agree. I’m not even saying I would not have taken the risk. All I’m saying is that the Browns staff took a look and thought it wasn’t worth it. I’ll give the new regime enough rope to hang themselves just like the last (several).

    @ bobby: the Pats passed on him as well (or traded their pick away).

  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com Cleveland Frowns

    @bobby #21: I acknowledged that Bal and Pit passed on Maualuga too, suggested that they passed on him for the same wrong reasons, and said that this was our chance to finally get over on them. Anyway, Baltimore had a big hole to fill on their O-line, so it would have been extra hard for them to pass on Oher there.

    Still confused by whatever these “football reasons” for not picking Rey are.

    @Denny #22: If he was always flying around like a chicken with his head cut off, and that was a bad thing, why was their defense so good?

    It doesn’t make any sense to say, @Morph #25, that the Unit was good because Maualuga, their middle linebacker, was always out of position. How exactly does that work?

    Ken Norton, while admittedly self interested, explained that he instructed Maualuga to pursue the way he did as part of the Trojan’s scheme. Maybe the same kind of scheme doesn’t work in the NFL, and maybe that’s the only scheme that Rey could play in, but how can we be so sure of that? Conclusory statements that he “overpursues angles” don’t do it for me. Especially because that seems like something that can be taught, while certain other things about Maualuga absolutely can’t.

    This might be one instance where the Bengals’ willingness to take on so called character issues might work in their favor.

  • S-Dub

    I wish people would get off this Maualuga thing. Learn how to break down some tape and make a good assessment. Anyone can get tape from YouTube, but do you know what it means when your watching it? SOOOO many people wanted Rey simply because they saw some mock drafts (In Feb.) that had us taking him at #5 and they watched ESPN talk about EVERY USC player like they were some type of god and showed Rey blitzing Stanford (obviously a power house) up the middle and crushing their QB.

    He isn’t even comparable to Curry, who went #4. Here are 3 diff career stats from guys.

    Career Statistics
    Year GP TKL TFL SACK PBU INT
    2005 12 37 4.5 1.0 2 1
    2006 13 78 5.0 2.0 3 1
    2007 13 79 10.5 6.0 3 1
    2008 12 79 2.5 0.0 4 2
    Totals 50 273 22.5 9.0 12 5

    Career Statistics
    Year GP TKL TFL SACK PBU INT
    2005 12 9 0.5 0.0 0 0
    2006 13 115 8.5 4.0 2 5
    2007 13 121 8.5 5.0 1 2
    2008 13 130 7.0 4.0 4 2
    Totals 51 375 24.5 13.0 7 9

    Career Statistics
    Year GP TKL TFL SACK
    2005 RS - - -
    2006 13 27 13.5 3.0
    2007 13 37 11.5 6.5
    2008 13 36 21.5 13.5
    Totals 39 100 46.5 23.0

    The 1st is Rey, 2nd is Little Animal (Laurinitis) and 3rd is Everette Brown (went after Rey and Robiskie and played DE in college). Rey was on the “Best Defense Ever” and didn’t record a single sack, only had 2.5 tackles for loss, and only recorded 2 interceptions in his senior season. Ya he’s pretty great….

  • S-Dub

    *Sorry I fixed the stat lines when i was writing the comment but they got messed up when posting i guess.

  • Humboldt

    @ S-dub – rejoinder is simple: see OSU-USC 2008. The guy is a flat-out playmaker, despite his imperfections, which even his strongest proponents have acknowledged

  • S-Dub

    @Humboldt: Ya really tough to read a terrible QB in Todd Boeckman who wasn’t drafted wont sniff an NFL field. Where was he when they lost to Oregon St.? The Pac 10 is full of garbage teams, obviously their a very very good team, but he should’ve had at least 100 tackles considering he isn’t rushing the QB or defending the pass.

    He just isn’t a great pro prospect and people should be more pissed we passed over Everette Brown to draft Robiskie than anything. Brown filled a need and was probably the best player on the board at that point.

  • Humboldt

    S-Dub – I don’t want to make some cliche comment about throwing out the numbers. Let me just say that when I have watched Mauluga I’ve seen a tenacious and physically gifted player who, with some sustained good coaching, could bring character and toughness to a defense and whose play could resonate with a fan base like the one we have in Cleveland.

    I respect your argument but have a different interpretation of the guy’s potential. Drafting is a giant rorschach test isn’t it?

  • S-Dub

    Sure is, I mean Ryan Leaf and Tony Mandarich, can’t miss right?

  • Humboldt

    @ S-Dub – you’re discrediting your good argument by referencing those outlier busts

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com DP

    To sort of circle back a bit, I myself never said they shouldnt take Rey because of his abilities. In fact, I was in favor of taking him. All I was trying to say is that IF the FO decided to pass on him for his character issues, I’m OK with that, too. I don’t think that it’s a mistake to pass on players if you’re convinced they have issues. For the one example (Moss) of a risky-character guy that became a star, I could probably name tens or hundreds that flopped out and/or missed time because of disciplanary action.

    That’s all.

  • B-bo

    Part of me suspects that if Rey Maualuga had a buzzcut or a shaved head, there would be alot less obsession. Everyone has been making the Maualuga-Polamalu comparison for the past year now, and it always seems to come back to “the look”. Is he good? Yes. Is he the Second Coming? Not by a long shot. Is he Polamalu? We’ll see in time.

  • http://www.clevelandfrowns.com Cleveland Frowns

    To come full circle: all I was trying to say was that IF they decided to pass on him for his character issues (and I think they did), that seems like a really bad decision given that his character issues seem to boil down to getting caught boozing at a party when he was in a freshman and picking a fight with one (a few?) of his classmates at the University of Spoiled Children (who surely had it coming). Oh, and his hilarious Erin Andrews bit.

    A commenter at Frowns suggested that I wanted Maualuga because he looks like Polamalu, and I will admit that’s partially true. Part of what makes me like Rey is what he looks like (a bada$$). That’s also part of what I think could make him great. At some point perception becomes reality…other’s (fans, gms, coaches) perception of you can become your own perception of yourself which can become actualized as greatness. I wanted that with Rey…am pretty sure that the lump of clay is there. Now it’s up to the Bengals (and their community) to see what they can make of it. Wish that lump of clay was ours. That’s all. A second round pick seemed like a small price to pay.

  • bobby

    I personally think that it was a mixture of Rey over-pursuing plays, becoming a liability on the field, and his off-field issues that ultimately made Mangini pass on him. There were more pressing needs at WR then at LB, and I still like their draft.

  • Morph

    @Frowns #28 – The answer to your question is easy, the rest of the unit made up for the Rey’s weakness. They covered for him which is why the 2 others went in the first round and we draft the 4th USC LB. Rey is simply an emptyheaded goon who makes great hits but that is it.