Browns Considered to Be Worst in the NFL
June 11, 2009Tribe’s Reyes Done for Season, Perhaps Longer
June 11, 2009
If you haven’t seen them, you likely will. Sam Amico is reporting today that the Cavalier front office is split on the future of coach Mike Brown.The piece included opinions from sources not willing to quoted.
“The Cavaliers’ front office has reportedly been in disarray since the team was bounced by Orlando in the Eastern Conference finals — despite finishing with a league-best record of 66-16 and possessing NBA MVP LeBron James.
Some key members of the organization feel Brown was badly out-coached by Orlando’s Stan Van Gundy, according to sources. One source said Cavs management wasn’t only disappointed in the losses, “but equally disappointed in the (two) wins” in a series that went six games.”
Brian Windhorst went on the offensive (or I guess the defensive) this morning to let Cavs fans know that he feels the report(s) are flawed. According to Windhorst-
This brought out plenty of critics both out front of and behind the scenes and will lead to plenty of evaluation by the front office and certainly Brown himself, who spends a large amount of time after each season grading his own performance. But on balance, Brown has proven to be one of the best coaches in the NBA over the last four years, especially at the defensive end and most especially in the playoffs.
You need to read the entire defense by Windhorst to get the full picture.
Another report was from a New York Daily News blogger, who obviously has an agenda for reporting anything Cleveland LeBron related.
Bottom line- even though Amico is a credible reporter, it doesn’t make much sense to think Mike Brown (coach of the year this season in case you forgot) will be replaced this summer.
32 Comments
From what I have heard, it would take someone like Pat Riley to get brown ousted this year.
I don’t want him gone. If he gets badly outcoached again next year then he should hit the road
If Joe Girardi can be fired from the Florida Marlins after winning coach of the year, Mike Brown can get the axe too.
I’m not sure if any of you go to the Real Cavs Fans boards, but there is a poster there named Wine and Gold who is somehow involved in the Cavs organization. He’s posted some great things that have proven him to be legit. Anyway, he posted this:
Sam Amico does have people with the team that he talks to. In post season meetings, Mike Brown got served with more real issues than at any time in his career here.
Lebron will have a say as to what his opinion is here. He is going to be brought in, and talked to and given the chance to express to the team’s decision makers what he thinks happened.
What nobody knows is that Lebron DID get together with Dan Gilbert right after the series.
Before speaking with the media or anyone.
What nobody knows is what Lebron said in that meeting.
Just from things that I know …it’s possible. But, if the right person isn’t available, nothing is going to get done. But, it’s not impossible.
I think if Pat Riley would come here it’s done, but I’ve heard nothing of that one.
As I’ve said before, some of our assistants even felt like they had their hands tied in the Orlando series.
Cant confirm of deny whether anything will ultimately get done, but there is smoke with this fire.
Take it for what it’s worth I guess.
This is Cleveland, people! Anything is possible. I could see Mike Brown gone tomorrow as much as I could see Wedge still here in 3 years.
I think Brown is a very good but not great coach. This was the first year under Brown that the Cavs “underachieved,” or didn’t make it as far as most thought they should have; every other year, the Cavs achieved on par or overachieved (2007 NBA Finals). So there’s something to be said for that.
I will say that though Orlando was a bad matchup for Cleveland from the beginning, Brown was outcoached every step of the way by Stan Van Gundy and it’s pretty hard to argue otherwise. For that, criticism is deserved. We gave up three double-digit leads in six games against ORL and defended Orlando in Game 6 the same way we defended them in Game 1.
I’m not going to sit here and say Brown should be fired, I don’t think that’s necessarily (keyword) the right move. However, should some name like Riley or Jackson become seriously interested in the gig, I think you have to give it a look. The Cavs have one more year to make it right before their judgment day. Not saying Lebron is going to leave but he’s definitely going to evaluate what the franchise has done since he’s been here. Another flame-out like this past year and you really have to believe he might decide to bolt.
Needless to say, if Brown retains his job there will be an inordinate amount of pressure on him to make the Finals next season.
@Ike,
I think there will be an inordinate amount of pressure on Brown to WIN the Finals next year. Considering the Cavs reached the Finals 2 years ago, just being there wouldn’t be considered progress in my opinion.
right now, brown was outcoached by SVG in that series. however, would he have been “outcoached” if rashard missed his last shots in games 1 and 4 or if delonte makes his last shot in game 1 or gets that last rebound in game 4? if just those little events play out differently, cleveland wins games 1 and 4 – they win the series 4-1 and we arent talking about mike brown getting outcoached. thats a fact.
I want to go on record of saying getting rid of him is an incredible stupid idea. He fuddled around for a couple years offensively, and then let his offensive coordinator step up. When he did that, that sealed the deal for me. Brown is not the problem. I think this offseason needs no huge changes (ok maybe a few player related ones), but nothing that isn’t already obvious. Brown is not an obvious problem (actually, he’s not a problem at all).
Do. Not. Get. Rid. Of. Coach. Brown.
Lebron James: I play, coach stays. He goes, I go.
The only way that Brown should get fired is if a marquee coach comes available. We don’t want to end up like the Pistons or the Suns or the Mavericks and fire the coach and then watch the team disintegrate without his presence. There aren’t a lot of coachs out there that are better than Mike Brown that are on the market.
Potential replacement: Leroy Smith. Realize!
@Scott: Nice cross promotion there.
#7 – I am in total agreement.
Synergy [locks fingers]
To say that the Cavs were within a couple of shots of making this series competitive is true, but they also were within 1 miracle shot of getting swept. This isn’t even to mention the fact that that the Cavs blew leads (2 of them double digit) in all 3 of their 4 losses. Also it took a Jesus-like effort from LBJ to keep the Cavs from losing game 6. It’s got to go both ways.
Sorry, I meant game 5, not 6 above.
I’m not here to talk about the past…..
im with you clown baby. my point is only that this series was VERY close and could have easily gone either way. they were a miracle shot from getting swept and orlando was really 2 miracles shots away from losing 4-1. dont forget, if hedo misses his last shot in game 2 the cavs win and they dont need lebrons miracle shot. im only trying to point out that the series was really close and all this talk about brown getting totally outcoached would never have come up if a few things went down a little differently. its not like the cavs were blown out of arena.
Sounds to me like there’s a ton of chatter within the organization.. Windy has his sources that opened up to him, as does Sam (who’s been extremely credible in the past). Remember when the Cavaliers were thought to be the most tight-knit organization in the NBA (that was like three weeks ago)?
Where there’s smoke there’s fire in situations like these.
By the way, I like Mike Brown and don’t think he cost us in the Orlando series. Cavs fans want answers and he’s the most obvious scapegoat.
If he goes whose glasses will everyone make fun of?
“If he goes whose glasses will everyone make fun of?”
That’s endorsement eyewear, brotha
If LeBron wants him to go he will go. If LeBron wants him to stay he will stay. If LeBron tells Ferry and Gilbert that the decision is theirs, I am guessing Mike Brown stays.
@ Mike
“we arent talking about mike brown getting outcoached. thats a fact.”
That’s true. I’d hope we’d have more important things to talk about like beating the Lakers but. Just because we wouldn’t have talked about it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Yes, Orlando was a nightmare matchup for the Cavs but aside from running the offense through Lebron at the free throw line for part of one game, what adjustments did Brown make? Small adjustments could have made big differences in this close series.
I don’t see any benefit from firing Brown, but I hope he learned a lot from the series. I’d very much like to see us come out next year and pound Orlando the first time we see them.
Craig is exactly right. Here is a long way of driving that point home. This is a post from the same guy within the organization that I referenced earlier. He says he spoke to Gilbert there is absolutely no reason not to believe him…..
I decided to get on the phone while I’m out on the scouting trail, and try and bring some sense and understanding to the rumors that are circulating throughout the sports world in regards to the head coaching job with the Cavaliers.
I have said some things in my post Orlando series comments, that have conveyed some issues with Mike Brown’s coaching in that series, and that issues had arisen amongst some of his staff, as to his philosophy during that series.
These critical comments and evaluations have, without question, continued throughout the Cavaliers in-house evaluations that have been going on, and are continuing to go on during this time period. Part of which I even have been involved, and my opinions heard and evaluated within that mix.
So, I can say all viewpoints are being brought to the table, and I have backing for my viewpoints amongst many in the organization.
Mike Brown has been critiqued to a level he has never experienced before as head coach of the Cavaliers.
One basic and strong underlying truth remains constant throughout all levels, and amongst all people with varying viewpoints …and that one constant was that our team simply was a matchup disaster when put against the Orlando Magic.
We may have people in the organization, of which I am one, that don’t feel Mike Brown put us in the best position to win this series, and neglected to try certain avenues which ultimately could have been tried or attempted. But even those of us who share those thoughts and opinions have to concede that they weren’t strong options, and would have included using personnel at the very end of our bench.
So, that is telling in the sense that it is understandable why Mike Brown ultimately decided to stay with what he did, other than go deeper into his bench to try and find a more favorable matchup with those way down the totem pole.
But, we have conflicting reports coming out of various media outlets, and I need to bring some clarity to them.
The question is, how can one report from someone say all these things that might conclude that the Cavaliers might be contemplating a coaching change, and others deny that they have any truth and that nothing will happen and Mike Brown’s job is secure.
Well, here’s the real deal.
Sam Amico does have solid sources within the Cavs organization, and he has heard of the issues that have come to light in the Cavs post season evaluations. They truly have been highly critical of Mike Brown and have put him on the spot as far as him having to explain in detail why he chose to go the routes that he did, and his reasonsings.
One strength of this organization is that they don’t shy away from openly bringing issues out in the open and talking them through. It’s one of the key reasons we are as successful as we are, quite frankly.
When issues exist, they get addressed openly, and not swept under the rug so as to avoid hurting fragile egos.
Mike Brown is a strong man, with his ego in check. He’s very willing to take on issues that are coming at him right now, and he’s handling them all with great character.
Now, amidst all this, is Mike Brown’s job in jeopardy ?
While I can say that there is smoke to this fire, in that division of thought does exist amongst some key members of this team’s top decision makers as to the decisions that were made and not made during the Orlando series, the one most key person’s opinion on the matter is one that goes by the name of Lebron James.
Lebron James himself, DID have issues with some of the decisions that were made during the Orlando series, BUT, they don’t even come remotely close to being of the level to put Mike Brown’s job in jeopardy.
This is what I was told just prior to getting on here and writing this piece, by the most important man in the organization …our owner.
Lebron is still fully behind Mike Brown as head coach of this team, and with that being said folks … expect to see Mike Brown as our head coach for as long as Lebron is here. He’s behind Mike Brown despite the issues that even he had with him during the Orlando series.
But, I will say that the organization is handling all of this very very professionally. Hearing out all sides of all issues that exist in their post mortem evaluations after our season concluded, painfully, in Orlando.
So, although Sam Amico did have some justification for what he wrote in terms of their being some very critical opinions of Mike Brown that have come to the forefront during recent meeting in Independence, changing the head coach isn’t part of the itinerary as I see it, moving forward this offseason.
Just thought it was important that I get some clarity out for you guys right now before things get out of control on the rumor front.
Too bad Larry Brown is already employed…sounds like Mike Brown is becoming the next Rick Carlisle. Would we really replicate something else from the Pistons?
well brad they won the championship the year after that!(or maybe two years)
Anyway, I don’t think that brown should get fired and i definitely dont think that he’s totally responsible. It’s a team sports so everyone has his share of responsibility in this one. from the owner to the players and that inludes LeBron James. So Mike brown could have done things better, but let’s face it he did not have the right personnel. Which coach has never been outcoached??? Even Pat riley has, even Phil Jackson has(last year finals). Mike Brown has done a terrific job and the cav’s front office shouldnt throw that away…yet.
Being “outcoached” is a difficult accusation to throw around. It can happen to anybody. If it consistently happens, then you have a problem. Don’t forget Brown is relatively fresh in his head coaching career. As much as it pains me to say it, he’s still learning. (Just think about that upside though…still learning, and he’s the reigning NBA Coach of the Year!) If we start having collapses like this annually, he’ll get the axe. But he led us to the league’s top record. He’s not going anywhere for a while. I honestly think he did about as much as he could with our team. With the bench floundering the way it did, who could he rotate in? We have problems on the floor to address. Don’t create problems in the office.
Mike (#7 and 18),
I like Brown and don’t want him fired and I agree with your point that the series was very close the whole way. But isn’t the fact that the Cavs lost more of the close games than won proof that MB got outcoached. I mean, if the Cavs got swept by double digits, then you say orlando was more talented or peaking or whatever. But when the games are close, that’s when coaching matters the most, right?
Clown your post encompasses the entire issue and I think raises all the points for and against.
Vic, I agree with your sentiment. On the job training is often the best type. Let’s see how that translates into success this coming season.
The thing in the back of everyone’s mind though is the summer of 2010. This next season is do or die. Let’s hope next year at this time we are discussing all of the excellent moves the Cavs made (or didn’t make) that led to success.
– Mark
For the record, I’d still rather discuss the Cavaliers than talk about Mangini and the Browns practicing in the rain 🙂
first, im not saying brown wasnt outcoached. i disagreed with some of the moves he made. secondly, whether a game is close or a blowout isnt necessarily indicative of whether or not someone got out-coached or not. if they get swept by double digits, that could certainly be due to bad coaching decisions at least in part. a close game certainly can come down to good coaching, but it also comes down to execution. the execution wasnt always there by the cavs players in those close games. thirdly, look at games 1 and 4 in particular. at the end of game 1, brown set his defense and rashard made a pretty ridiculous three pointer. after that, he set up an offensive play which got a wide-open (WIDE OPEN) look for delonte west and he missed it. thats not bad coaching per se – thats delonte missing a wide open game winning shot. if it was set up for Z to take it, then id be scratching my head. in game 4, i thought the defensive set was peculiar with wallace on rashard but rashard still hit a tough last second shot, and he got open due to a questionable moving screen set by dwight howard (refs??). just before that, the cavs had pretty solid defense and pietrus took a really bad three that he missed, there was a long rebound and delonte had it on his fingers until Howard knocked him from behind (refs???) and it went out of bounds. he gets that board, the cavs probably win game 4. in that OT, nobody seemed to want to play hack-a-dwight. i highly doubt Brown told the players not to foul dwight but rather just give him easy dunks. thats awful execution by the players to just let dwight get his easy open dunks. at the end of game 2, i thought lebron should have been guarding hedo when he made his last second shot. we all know what happened after that.
all im saying is that had the cavs won or lost this extremely close series, he would have still made some questionable decisions. all in all, he had a great coaching season. since they lost (barely), everything gets blown out of proportion though.
apparently van gundy is making up for outcoaching brown in the last series with bonehead decision after bonehead decision in the nba finals. ugh
Well said Mike.
And man, couldn’t Rashard Lewis have laid some eggs in our series??