NBA Free Agency: Leon Powe Prefers Cleveland
July 31, 2009Plenty of Blame to Go Around with Tribe
July 31, 2009
Is it too late to paint a Red Sox jersey on the Victor Martinez bobblehead for tomorrow night?
Unlike reported earlier by ESPN, this deal is to be straight up between the Indians and Red Sox. Clay Buchholz after all? Did they package in Hafner? We’ll update as needed…
(Update 2:28PM: Per FoxSports – “The Indians’ exact return is not known, but the Red Sox did not include either right-hander Clay Buchholz nor right-hander Daniel Bard in the deal, according to a source.”)
(Update 2:35PM: John Mayo from MLB.com reports that Justin Masterson is a part of the deal. More to come.)
(Update 2:50PM: Mayo adds LHP Nick Hagadone to the mix. Has been compared to Johnathon Lester, though is coming off of Tommy John surgery)
(Update 3:25PM: Deal appears to be finalized. Victor Martinez to Boston for RHP Justin Masterson, LHP Nick Hagadone and RHP Bryan Price. Hagadone was the #3 prospect in the Sox system coming into 2009. That’s all I got…)
(Update 5:00PM: Per Castro: “Hugging son Victor Jr. — earlier in the day, the young boy asked his dad, “Are we still an Indian?” This is a very, very emotional goodbye for Victor. He sat in front of his locker, with his son, Victor Jose, in his lap and sobbed after getting the news. He spoke to reporters with black sunglasses hiding his red eyes. “This is my house,” he said. “I’m leaving my house.”)
148 Comments
This is the culmination of a 10 year cashout. You all better hope Dolan doesn’t take an out of town offer next year.
Can’t you all see what’s BEEN going on? Don’t waste your time trying to assess all these lame single A longshots. It’s not about that.
Would you patronize a restaurant that took everything off it’s menu execpt burgers in order to reduce operating costs?
You’re right, MacNip–it’s totally unreasonable for fans to voice their displeasure when a fan favorite (which, let’s be honest, Bartolo was not–not like V-Mart anyway) is shipped off to a hated team for guys we’ve never heard of. Maybe these acquisitions do go on and become the core of a contending Tribe team, maybe we come to love them the way we did Omar, Kenny, Albert, and the rest. All I know is right now alot of us are bitter and don’t feel like being lectured to about how we supposed to react. No one is delusional–we know we weren’t going to win this year or next. But is it so wrong to want to see a guy you’ve seen come up and have success stay around to help transition to the next core group? I don’t think it is, and I think many people commenting would agree. You keep the faith, but let people deal the way they want to. If all goes well, you can come back here in 3 years and sing all day about how right you were and how you are a “real” fan for not getting disheartened here in 2009, and you will have earned it.
For those of you who want to blame the structure and MLB, cmon.
It’s about ownership in major league sports, they know the rules when they buy the franchise. What didn’t you know in 2000 about Dolan that you know now?
It’s a little late.
Isis is back!!!!!!!
What’s the St. Louis Cardinals year to year payroll? (and I don’t mean on year up…..5 down). What’s their operating model?
St. Louis is darn near the EXACT size/media demography of Cleveland.
Quit blaming the system…….it’s about ownership and committment to excellence, just like any other organization.
This is my comfort tonight:
Well, you have to admit, it takes some guts to keep dealing our best players knowing that you’re going to get crucified.
Martinez, who had spent his whole career with Cleveland, fought back tears after being told he’d been traded. He sat in front of his locker, hugging son Victor Jr. — earlier in the day, the young boy asked his dad, “Are we still an Indian?”
This is pointless because, as we have all learned, you can’t debate with someone who is never wrong. However…
the argument that is is about ownership in pro sports is a valid one, assuming all teams are operating on a level playing field. This is true is football and basketball, where the salary cap ensures that all teams are playing by the basic rules. In that environment, it’s all about smart owners and GMs working the intricacies of the cap to manuever their rosters toward competitiveness. Market size may help overall franchise value and the ability to (as in basketball) exceed the cap for an additional tax, but the same basic limits apply to everyone. In the NFL, the teams with smart FOs are able to keep most of a competitive roster intact as well, again thanks to the salary cap and shrewd manuevering.
The fact is that major league baseball does NOT provide that basic level playing field in any way, shape, or form. $50 mil to talk to a Japanese pitcher? That rules out 98% of the league. Quarter BILLION dollar contracts? the ability to outbid another team for one of their homegrown stars (Manny, anyone?) by multiple millions of dollars more, just because you are a large-market team? Being one of 2-3 automatic finalists for ANY free agent even though your team’s payroll is already north of $200 million, which is as much as 4 TIMES the payroll of other teams in the league? How can you look at any of this and say things are okay? Just because these are the rules we are used to, the ones “they know” when they buy the team, doesn’t make them right.
Now let the belittling responses fly, just know I could not care less.
Denny, FTW
I shall be joining you in that endeavor.
@MacNip #98:
“Young players busting their rear day in and day out to make it in the bigs.”
…only to sit on the bench for a few weeks before being sent back down, wasting an option in order to allow Wedge to stick with his “grinders” even when they’re playing out of position.
Go Tribe!
I am not overwhelmed by who we got. This hurts way worse than CC or Cliff leaving.
A friend from Boston just said, “I am going to miss Masterson. That kid is good.”
My reply… “Shut it.”
lets sign kameron wimbley to a 10 day roster or something next time we play the red sox. have him pinch run for somebody then on the way home, close play or not, hit the snot out of varitek.
It’s like a check list…
I am never spending another dime on this team be it merchandise tickets or even watching a game on STO. I didnt renew my season tickets this year and I sure as heck am not going to do it until we get new management. When I heard the news it was like the picture of the Indian with a single tear running down his face.
I was actually in favor of the Colon deal fwiw…
This one just doesn’t sit right at all.
@98/111: And then to be traded (called up?) by the Yankees/Red Sox/Dodgers/Angels etc…
@70: I couldn’t DISAGREE more. I haven’t seen a lack of overall talent and depth in the Indians organization like this since the bad old days. I expected it then, but then got spoiled by the Jacobs ‘golden era’…guess I have to recalibrate my expectations back to the 70s and 80s.
Count me as another fan that won’t be supporting them financially for the foreseeable future, at least until Dolan sells. So depressing.
I’m gonna go grab a bottle of Jameson’s and play “what’s at the bottom of this?” Pretty sure that’s what Shapirate’s been doing before fielding trade requests; I’m pretty sure the AI on my PS3 would reject these trades, then laugh at me before becoming self aware and leaving for a better team…
@B-Bo:
Agree more with Isis than you on last points. The Dolans knew the rules. The MLB is not a place for cozy little family owners who had to severely leverage just to buy and then are counting on the franchise to financially build and support itself. Here, you have to spend money wisely, build quality, and then the limited number of available fans will be more likely tol choose you, rather than the other local teamd.
Isis cites St. Louis. I would add Detroit and, currently, Milwaukee. If you keep blowing up the balloon halfway with helium, praying it floats on a lucky breeze, then popping it when it doesn’t, eventually the neighborhood kids just get bored and walk away, no matter how many times you yell to them,”Wait! It’s gonna fly in a minute!” I’m gonna go watch the real balloons fly. These Dolans just don’t have the helium.
@ Harv – right on. Hell, look no further than the Indians in the 1990s when they had one of the top payrolls in the league, while at the same time the Pirates in neighboring Pittsburgh (which, whether we can to admit it or not, is a lot like Cleveland) were already slogging through terrible times thanks to owners who were incompetent cheapskates.
Larry Dolan has ruined this franchise.
This may be in poor taste, but anyone else think us Cleveland fans are an awful lot like a battered spouse? We just keep taking it and taking it, and believe it when they tell us they’re gonna change, they’re gonna turn things around and start living right… And the shift of i is that none of us’ll leave ’em. Oh, we’ll bench and moan about ’em, and talk about rooting for this team or that one. But we won’t. Anyone else for a ban on Tribe talk through the end of the year? No STO, No Paul Hoynes (big loss there!), no Chief Wahoo. Clippers and below, and that’s all. Because that’s all this team is is a farm team for real baseball teams.
I am no longer an Indians fan until the Dolan’s sell this team. They have committed Franchise Suicide this summer.
MacNip… SHUT UP
Doesn’t this give a new perspective on Gilbert? Although the Cavs not winning a title was crushing this year, and would probably be a disappointment this up and coming year, I’d much rather go through that and see effort from an owner compared to the Dolan’s.
Holy crap, I just read that 5pm WFNY posted and nearly cried myself. That’s the kind of loyalty that you just don’t see in sports anymore. And what do the Dolans do to reward it? Gut the team around him and then send him shipping too. Breaks my heart.
If I had another good hat that I liked right now I would go burn my Indians hat … need to go and buy a good Ohio State hat because it’s the only team that year in and out does not completely break my heart
I am truly devastated.
The one who actually loved this town, the one who was the last guy to leave the dugout and fought tears after game 7 of the ALCS, the one who gave his all every single day, is shipped. I dont believe it. I feel as sick as I do when the Cavs were eliminated in my most recent memory.
Thank you so much Victor.
When you can’t keep any of your star players, something is definitively wrong with the system.
Say what you want about the wisdom of some of the moves of Danny Ferry and Dan Gilbert on occasion but we know if we lose Lebron, the organization went down swinging for the fences trying to win the big one. The Indians don’t even want to get into the batters box. They quit on us.
How many bobbleheads will end up on the playing field tomorrow? I was thinking about going to get one, but I don’t want to fund this team anymore. I’m done with them.
#119–
If you keep blowing up the balloon halfway with helium, praying it floats on a lucky breeze, then popping it when it doesn’t, eventually the neighborhood kids just get bored and walk away, no matter how many times you yell to them,”Wait! It’s gonna fly in a minute!” I’m gonna go watch the real balloons fly. These Dolans just don’t have the helium.
— I really like that analogy. well put.
This is a shrewd move. That Victor bobblehead is going to be a collector’s item. There’s a big national sports collectors show at the IX center this weekend. Saturday’s attendance at the Jake will skyrocket.
Like the guy said in that old Lowenbrau commercial, “Dolan, you’re a genius.”
Good luck to Victor, a totally class act.
If Chris Antonetti cracks one more joke, I’m gonna snap his twigg-like neck with mind bullets. Can somebody tell this guy that his fan base pays his salary? And talking about how long draft picks take to develop — isn’t the “centerpiece” of the Cliff Lee trade 18 years-old?
Is there going to be a press conference soon?? If so what channel or online?
Yeah, yeah we knew this was coming but…SHAPIRO MUST GO!!! and he can take the Dolans with him!
Good luck Victor. You were a stellar Indian and did the city of Cleveland proud. We’ll surely miss you.
Look on the bright side. At least ESPN has stopped talking about that drama queen Favre.
. . . well, for a week at least.
. . . okay, one stinking day. But that’s still great!
I wasn’t lying about Mr. Jameson. He’ll pull me through! http://twitpic.com/cazn1
Denny,
Have one for Herb too.
I didn’t get a chance to hear any of Shappy’s comments earlier today, so his radio visit right now is the first I’ve heard. I still want to vomit…. maybe even more now. Don’t patronize me by saying “players, like fans, only have their eyes on today.”
I could go on and on…
bcoz
These situations are why I hate when Yankees fans site Jeter as “homegrown” talent. Once he signed the 100 million dollar contract, he was no longer homegrown, just another free agent that happened to play for them instead of someone else when they signed him.
Why us?
I AM SO DAMNED ANGRY. NO MORE, CAN’T STAND ANY MORE.
One day…when I’m a grandpa…Cleveland sports will do something right.
MacNip- You want to know what would have happened back when Bartolo was traded? Let me just ask you who they got? Phillips was a huge prospect (who they traded for some reason) in that deal. He would be comparable to Drabek, or Clay. The Indians just straight up didn’t get any great prospects. they got 2 guys coming off surgeries on their throwing arms! When Colon was traded he was at his peak, ready to come down. It was the right time to trade him, proven by the fact that he did NOTHING after he was traded. CC, Lee and Victor all have LOADS of potential still.
They traded away core guys that could have been the start of something. They needed to lock these guys up, and get rid of big contracts that are doing nothing, and I don’t care what they got. Get rid of Hafner for nothing for all I care. Get rid of Wood. Get rid of Westbrook. Weren’t they supposed to have great propects coming into this year? I was under the impression that C-bus should have been stacked! Get rid of the managers, the coaches that should be getting their prospects better. Get rid of the people who can’t draft and don’t know how to build a farm system other then trading for it. Why do they have to get rid of their GOOD, YOUNG talent? You can’t try to feed the same BS that the front office does. These were good players that they are getting rid of.
Imagine this lineup:
C- Victor
1B- Garko
2B- Derosa
SS- Cabera
3B- Marte
LF- Laporta
CF- Sizemore
RF- Choo
At third you have Perralta to replace him, or put Carrol at 2nd and have Derosa go there. This is a lineup that we could have seen, but never did. There plenty of power mixed with people who can get on base, but instead, Shoppach is catching everyday! Why?! Wedge had talent on this team and did NOTHING with it. Heck, Tom Hamilton would be a 1000000 times better then having Wedge in the dugout.
There is simply just no need for the Indians bad season. They made mistakes by giving large contracts to Hafner and Wood, and Victor, CC, Lee, and Garko all pay the price, along with the Fans of Cleveland.
@ Mr Cleaveland – I had one for Herb, for Vic, for Hammy, for myself, for my wife, for my father-in-law, and for my roommates in college. And I’m still sad.
I’ll have something in the morning about my feelings. But damn, Craig said it well.
Try and have a good night folks, here’s to tomorrow.
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