Tribe and the Trade Deadline – A History of the Jacobs Field Era – 2000-2002
July 21, 2009Wahoo!!! Cliff Finally Gets What He Deserves
July 22, 2009While We’re Waiting serves as the early morning gathering of WFNY-esque information for your viewing pleasure. Have something you think we should see? Send it to our tips email in the sidebar.
Did you know only four current managers have been the manager of their respective teams longer than Eric Wedge has been managing the Indians? Four. Can you guess? Eric Wedge is nowhere near these guys’ levels.
Four guys [with] longer active tenures with their current team than Wedgie: Bobby Cox. Mike Scioscia. Ron Gardenhire. Tony LaRussa. That wasn’t hard. You knew that. But that’s it. Every other team has switched managers since Wedge came to the helm of the Tribe in 2003.
How does his W/L record stack up against those four in just the years 2003-Present? Tony LaRussa: 588-477 (.552). Gardenhire: 575-490 (.539). Bobby Cox: 568-496 (.533) . Mike Scioscia: 599-463 (.564).
Eric Wedge? After the Tribe’s loss [on Sunday], he again dipped to one game under .500: 532-533. [Vinny “Chase” Grzegorek/’64 and Counting]
—
Shaq welcomed Mark Madsen to L.A. with a shopping spree in Beverly Hills. Jamario Moon is getting ready for his trip to Ridgepark Square’s Bed, Bath & Beyond. [J.E. Skeets/Ball Don’t Lie]
—
We briefly touched on this earlier in the week, and apparently have some supporters: “We’ve worried in the past that [Eric] Mangini and [George] Kokinis might be going too far in trying to build a team of boy scouts, and hope that they won’t fail to consider adding [WR Matt] Jones for this reason alone. It’s not just that it appears that Jones has changed. As far as we know, a team of Boy Scouts has never won a Super Bowl. It takes all kinds, and a locker room with leaders in it should be able to easily integrate a repentent [sic] Jones. Additionally, the kind of easy living we enjoy here in Cleveland might be just the thing for a guy who wants to stay on the straight and narrow.” [Cleveland Frowns]
—
The Rich-Rod/Cooper parallel: “Both Cooper and Rodriguez were brought into their programs as outsiders. Neither grew up in-state, neither were alumni, and neither coached (in any capacity) at any program within 100 miles of their eventual suitor. Both were brought in for a specific talent: Cooper, for his ability to recruit on a national level, and Rodriguez for his offensive mind.” [Law Buckeye/Rivalry Esq.]
—
Longing for August 1: “Welcome to the quiet season, Browns Nation. Make yourself at home. How do you like it so far? And don’t complain about the nothingness that’s emanating from Berea these days. It won’t do any good. Bellow all you want, but the only hot air at 76 Lou Groza Blvd. these days lies outside the complex. No one of importance is inside. Yet. They’ll start streaming in this week. The last few weeks have been reserved as a time to relax. Recharge the batteries. Gear up for the six-month grind known as business as usual in the National Football League.” [Rich Passan/The OBR]
31 Comments
When did Matt Jones suddenly become good, anyway? There’s been a lot of talk about him in the offseason, but 2100 YD’s and 15 TD’s ovr 4 years don’t exactly scream “huge offseason acquisition,” do they?
Michigan must already regret hiring Rodriguez, but they’re in too deep now, so they’re stuck with him. Say what you want about Bo and Carr, but they had integrity and respect. Rodriguez is a slimebag who is going to continue to embarrass Michigan. Let the probations begin.
Look, Eric Wedge is stiff city-name me another ML organization that would have him higher than AAA at best. He’s here because he’s part of the Shapetti/Dolan play on our model managerial totum pole-do you think a professional, experienced major league manager would take part in that nonsense?
Wedge is adept at butt sucking and keeping his lips compressed, which in turn feeds Mark Shapiro’s mammoth ego.
When will the talk turn to Shapetti’s tenure?
FIRE WEDGE
haha im not joking
his grinder attitude is not working. hes stubborn and not the kind of guy you want as the skipper on a rebuilding team. cuz lets face it, when we traded derosa, this team officially entered rebuilding mode.
I think you’ve gotta give Rich Rod time before calling him Cooper. I realize that there are slight similarities, but that’s a bit of a stretch. If Rod gets obscene teams together like Cooper had, then underachieves I think the point will be valid. But still – they’ll both end up in the college HOF, because let’s face it – everyone does.
its almost like the Browns-Steelers “rivalry” with the Team from up North…it’s almost a non-rivalry…a few more years of using UM as our whipping boys will relegate it to less of a game…but dont get me wrong, I still love kicking their butts…
@ben, not saying Matt Jones is completely awesome or anything, but recalling him thoroughly lighting the Browns up last year, I can see why some Cleveland fans are high on the guy.
Also, the redundancy of the “wedge sucks” “fire wedge” etc articles is starting to really wear me down. I would have to say 95% of indians fans know wedge is gone at the end of the year. Sure it’s a mystery why he’s still here now, but I think the Dolans have made it pretty clear he’s going to finish the rest of the year, even if he loses every game from now till then. Which is completely possible…
Jones has a boat load of potential. The four-year span is tough for him because of the missed games, etc. He’s a pure athlete and would be a solid WR2 on any team – aside from the Arizona’s of the world that already have two studs, of course.
I can’t respect the Cleveland Frowns exert when there are like 10 spelling/grammar errors in a little paragraph. If you want people to read your opinion, then at least make it readable. I don’t agree with the opinion either. The browns have no leaders in the locker room (not last year at least) and they need to build some. Also, I like the WRs in place now rather then Matt Jones.
RE: Matt Jones
I understand there were missed games and a transition period from QB to WR. And I further understand he has a ton of athletic potential and has shown flashes of brilliance. But at what point does a player cease being a “project” and start being a “bust?”
Denny……as an OSU fan I hope you and Michigan give Rich Rod all the time he wants. The longer his tenure the digger the whole UM digs in it’s fallout.
The reality is that he’s on a two year watch, particularly with all the behind the scenes legal wrangling he’s brought with him to UM. Again…….I hope they hang with him much like Notre Dame hangs with the fatman.
Well I don’t have any say in how long Rich Rod stays in Ann Arbor. I think the guy should get a fair shake – three years, then call him a bust.
The way he left WVU was dirty as can be, but when he gets his system in place there’s great potential there.
And I’m an OSU alum. I want to see UM strong again. I want to see REAL games between the two schools. As much as it’s funny to see a beatdown or two, I miss the real competition between the schools.
Jones’ athletic talent is obvious, and he’s made very good use of it on the NFL field at various stretches over the last couple years. We can probably assume that Jones has abused drugs for most if not all of his professional career, and from that, we have reason to expect that if he’s put that behind him (as the Fanhouse post gives us reason to believe), he’ll make much better/more consistent use of his talent this season and going forward. This makes him an exciting prospect to fill the team’s biggest hole on offense.
Bobby, you like the guys we have for the #2 spot better than Jones? Who do you suppose that even is? David Patten? Mike Furrey? B-Rob? Assuming the Browns don’t sign Jones, I’d love to wager at even money that Jones has a more productive season than whoever the Browns line up in the 2-hole.
Also, re: Grammar police. Care to help me out on the 10 spelling/grammar errors in our paragraph? I see that we spelled “repentant” incorrectly (sorry!), but I don’t see any more errors than that. Also, if you can’t respect an “exert,” might you at least respect an “excerpt”?
Hope so!
I can’t believe how quickly people have soured on Rodriguez after one season. Unless he’s woefully incompetent, a college coach should get at least 4 years before getting the ax.
Jones was a college QB who ran a fast 40 so the Jags made a terrible mistake in drafting the kid in the 1st round. He was at best a high ceiling project coming out of college. He made terrible decisions and never became anything. Whose to say all the drug abuse hasn’t robbed him of some of that god given talent he once showed. I’d personally rather have Marvin Harrison or wait till cut down day in June to see whats out there. It’s not like every other team is rushing out to get the guy.
Um…dude had 65 catches and 800 yards receiving last year on a team with an anemic offense, despite missing four games, and apparently using coke during the season. That’s more catches and almost as many yards as any Browns receiver had last season, so I suppose even having abused the drugs, he still has some talent left.
I assume that people who dismiss Jones’ talent as a receiver haven’t watched him play very much football. (“College QB who ran a fast 40” is a joke.) This guy makes catches (one handed grabs and the like) that you just won’t see guys like David Patten and Mike Furrey make. If he has his stuff together, he can be a star. Worth the risk at the price.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/tampa-bay-buccaneers/09000d5d803b03a3/Can-t-Miss-Play-Jones-one-handed-TD-catch
@#9 Bobby
Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but if you’re going to critique someone else’s spelling/grammar, then please make sure you are correct in your own work. In your last sentence, it should be “than” not “then”… pretty funny stuff! Now if I messed up in this paragraph, it is only because I’m stupid. I’ve re-read this probably 10 times to make sure it was correct. ha ha
@Cleveland: How can you say that him being a “College QB who ran a fast 40” is a joke? I watched that combine and that’s exactly what happened. He wasn’t some big time WR prospect coming out of school. He demonstrated A TON of athleticism and the Jags picked him WAY to early. On draft day when the pick was made, it was a surprise to EVERYONE and Kiper touted it as a wait and see pick.
I’m not saying he wouldn’t be worth the salary he’d command, but to rest your laurels on a guy like that it a huge risk. There have been some players who have come back from drug abuse issues, but the majority don’t.
And have you broken down any tape, aside from his 1 handed catch? I mean even Dennis Northcutt had a few (ok, MAYBE one). How are his routes? His Blocking? His Reading of the Defense? Winslow has all the talent in the world, but if he isn’t good enough to block a soul and constantly kills drives for offensive pass interference calls, then is he really worth the headache too?
Winslow’s got soul, but he’s not a soldier… Oh, nevermind.
RE: Matt Jones
Matt Jones did play receiver in High School, but not at the college level. He is way more than a ‘workout wonder’. He has been successful in Basketball and Football and has shown improvement year to year switching from QB to WR in the NFL. His best year coming last year which should be incouraging.
As to his ‘drug problem’, it is way overblown. This is a good christian kid who made some bad decisions. It is still a gamble because no one can insure he won’t make them again. However, a minimum buy with a performance based contract should satisfy that objective.
I know all message board/blog hounds are perfect. I tried cocaine in college. Sorry, hate to disappoint you all. This was, unfortunately for Matt, a ‘college reunion’ gone bad. The fact he experimented with coke a couple of times does not make a ‘drug problem’. It does show immature judgement.
If no team in the NFL takes a chance on this kid, it would be a sad misjudgment and the most over reaction to an act performed by THOUSANDS of college students around the country daily.
I’m just glad that Ridgepark Square made it on to the internet!
As a huge supporter of both Ohio State and WVU, I want nothing more than to see RichRod go 1-10 against OSU…scratch that…0-11!
Jeez, MarkinArk, Where you been? Keep up the good work.
S-Dub: “I’m not saying he wouldn’t be worth the salary he’d command, but to rest your laurels on a guy like that it a huge risk.”
Worth the salary he’d command is all we’re hoping for. Who’s resting laurels? It’s either take what appears to be a decent risk at a low price, or don’t.
Dismissing Jones as ‘only’ a College QB who ran a fast 40 is where I have a problem. He’s more than that. The guy has shown he can be a big time receiver in the NFL.
Disappointed that no one has suggested: what if Matt Jones plays better on coke? How valuable is he now if going straight took .30 off his 40 time, or if when straight he no longer believes he can make a 2-finger catch?
@MarkinArk
His “drug problem” may be way overblown, but you are “underblowing(?)” the plain stupidity of cutting up blow in a car in public, drinking on probation in public, and being held in contempt.
If he’s an absolute bargain, I’m fine w/ the Browns picking him up. But I’ll be an unhappy camper if we make any sort of investment in the kid. Again, at some point the line between “project” and “bust” starts to blur.
Don’t see how a guy who had those numbers last season under those circumstances could possibly be considered a “bust” as an NFL player. Truly puzzling.
Denny……I don’t disagree in regards to wanting to see UM’s program in the dumps. I’m just saying that it’s my opinion that RM won’t be able to translate his run & shoot successfully to Michigan, nor will they give him the long-term necessary to make that happen-he’s too much baggage for that school’s reputation. It will take five years just to turn over the recruiting necessary to move from the old system to the new……..and then all of the lineman that will have gone to other schools will kill their program.
We’ll see…….it’s my opinion (particularly after attending the UM/OSU game last year) that RM will be an abysmal failure at UM (as much for his baggage versus his coaching). I went to high school with Justin Boren’s mom; Boren’s dad was an All-American LB at Michigan when I went to OSU so for Justin to transfer……..he deemed it BAD.
Denny…..meant to say in the first sentence above that I don’t disagree that I’d prefer to see Michigan’s football program be a smashmouth powerhouse, I just don’t see it ever happening under RM. I see his tenure quite short, perhaps ending after this year.
Alright, so I let my bad attitude this morning spread into my comment, which was a little off base to Frowns.
Still, I disagree with your opinion Frowns. The browns can’t be looking at a quick fix. I believe that Robo will end up being the #2 this year. I cannot say for certain if Robo will have better numbers then Jones, but Robo gives you that Joe J presence to get 1st downs on 3rd. He runs good routes and catches the ball (or so we’ve heard). Thats what the browns QB (whether is be BQ or DA) needs. Furrey will most likely line up in the slot, and Patten would be the 4th (or possibly cut).
Also, who are these players that make up the “locker room of leaders?” Last year there was basically no leadership surrounding the team. Maybe Mangini instills something this year, but they can’t try to pull a NE and get a disgruntled WR with hope the other players can make him buy into the system that may or may not work. Right now the only leader I see in Cleveland is Mangini, and he alone is not a locker room of leaders.
I can see where you come from thinking that this would be a good signing, but the dude just had a week in jail and was suspended because he was on coke. Maybe he has changed, but the browns aren’t in the position to take that gamble. If they do, it could end up imploding on this team. They need to get players to become leaders and buy into what Mangini is preaching. I can’t say that Jones will do that looking at his past.
Thanks, Bobby. But I’m highly skeptical of Robo stepping in as a #2 receiver as a rookie, even though I understand the argument that he might be more “pro-ready” than the average.
(http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/07/14/beware-of-rookie-receivers).
(http://bleacherreport.com/articles/214098-be-cautious-of-rookie-wide-receivers).
I think there’s a good reason to expect that an entirely new locker room culture will develop under Mangini, all the more likely if Quinn takes the starting QB reins. Anyway, I don’t think that Jones is anywhere close to the kind of guy who would cause a locker room to implode, even in the absence of great leadership. His problems were personal, and he’s never been known for talking at his teammates, or making a lot of noise in the locker room.
Also think that a “holier than thou”/no second chances culture can really backfire. Signing Jones would send a proper message in that regard, I think. Nobody would view it as the Browns abandoning certain core values. It would be much better viewed as simply adding another good one, and the only view that would matter there is that that came from the top down. The players would get it if it came from the top.
I love your comment “as simplying adding another *good* one”
I know it’s hard for you, but say it with me, based on any of his past NFL seasons, “Matt Jones is not a good NFL receiver.”
NoMoreDolans:
Matt Jones was #30 in the NFL in number of receptions among all positions; number 25 among receivers.
He was #22 in the NFL in yards/game.
His first down percentage was 72.3%. There were only 4 other receivers with as many catches who had better first down percentages.
I use the % and average stats because he played at least 3 less games than everyone else due to his suspension.
To state “Matt Jones is not a good NFL receiver”, is just biased and uninformed.
And consider, Matt Jones was a QB in college. He is just now adapting to his positions in the NFL.