Report: Browns Players to File Grievances Against Eric Mangini
September 27, 2009Welcoming Party: Rolling Out the Red Carpet for the Cavaliers, Shaquille O’Neal
September 27, 2009
Browns at Ravens, 1:00 PM. WTAM 1100/CBS.
So, Week Three of the NFL is here. The Browns face the Bizzaro-Ravens and their #3 ranked offense for a footballing match in Balmer. On the injury front, the Browns’ updated injury chart is as follows:
Out:
K Phil Dawson (right calf)
OL Rex Hadnot (knee)
RB Jamal Lewis (hamstring)
OL Floyd Womack (ankle)
Questionable:
Shaun Rogers (foot)
David Bowens (ankle)
To replace Dawson the Browns have signed Billy Cundiff to do their placekicking, at least for this week. RB Cedric Peerman was cut to make room for Cundiff.
So here we are – leave your thoughts on the game as it unfolds. Fortunately Unfortunately for me the game won’t be on – Comcast in the District has the Philly game rather than the Ravens. So congrats! You guys will be narrating. Remember two things: 1) our commenting policy. 2) Ray Lewis only ALLEGEDLY stabbed somebody.
Edit: Streaming link – Justin.tv
127 Comments
At the rate we’re going, we’ll have our pick out of McCoy, Bradford, Berry, Mays, and everyone else.
bobby, seriously, what does it gain us to put DA in? We all know that he is not the future at QB for this team. We all know that he is not good. Quinn deserves a chance to show what he can do at the helm. Even if he doesn’t turn out well, DA is not a quality NFL QB. Just look at the division, even. Flacco, Palmer, and Ben are all heads and shoulders above DA in every department, so why should DA be the answer, even a temporary one?
In agreement with 96, the playcalling was an abomination today. Quinn’s plays consisted of short routes with screens and other garbage, DAs plays consisted of actual passes. Quinn can throw it more than 10 yards, but the fact is that he only tried it once or twice this game. The biggest problem in my opinion right now is the offensive playcalling (pun entirely intended).
A hundo!
The Browns are bad. Bickering about the QB is like trying to patch one hole on a dam made of wicker. It just isn’t going to fix anything.
@92: I respectfully disagree. Those numbers are not that good at all. A decent QB averages 10 yds per completion and completes 60% of his passes (in the same game), and hold a QB rating of 75 minimum. Of those games you cited, only one qualifies as a decent outing (the 18/29/310/2 line).
According to Yahoo’s stat page, 12 QBs are below 60% (Russell is at 35%, Quinn is at 59%), and six are below 10 yds per completion. Only two QBs in the NFL are below those lines in both (Quinn and STL’s Bulger). Nine starting QBs currently are below 75 in QB rating.
DA’s above numbers are 78/152 (51.3%) for 1049 yds; at least he’s over 10 yds per completion, thanks to one or two big games (the 18/29 game). Last year DA completed 50.2% of his passes for 1615 yds (barely over 10 yds per completion) and a QB rating of 66.5, last among starting QBs.
Today DA was 11/19 for 92 yds, 3 INTs and a 30.9 rating, and Quinn wasn’t much better (6/8 for 34 yds, 1 INT and a 42.7 rating). Granted, B-more’s D is solid, but it goes to my point that neither QB is very good.
Are you guys serious? DA has a freaking fb screen called on 2nd a long. Dont try to say that they were calling real pass plays for DA and not Quinn. Just because Quinn doesnt throw down field doesnt mean they arent calling a deeper pass and Quinn checks down.
Seriously, Quinn is garbage. Why is everyone so patient on him and not DA. HE HAD 29 TDs in a season!!! Everyone looks at 1 game and says he blows. His last 5 games last year he had 7 TDs to 2 INTs. He has a bad game every now and then, but overall he is a good qb.
DA is a year and like 4 months older the Quinn. Hes still a YOUNG qb. he still can learn. Hes been learning as shown in preseason and a few plays today. He spotted blitzes, called them out, and generally had good plays on those blitzes (quick pass to BE when balt. blizted like 7). What good does it do to let Quinn choke a season away?
Ultimately, I don’t think it matters much, because the Browns do have the second worst owner in the NFL (do you need to ask who’s number one?), who couldn’t wait to hire a coach that a majority of his players hated in NY (and who have already quit on him here), and a team with such a dearth of talent that even the greatest coaches of all time would struggle to win with.
Cleveland deserves much better than what they have had with this organization over the last ten years. Unfortunately I don’t see this turning around anytime soon.
At least we wont be the team that gives Detroit their first win since 2007…
“For everybody wainting to fire Daboll or even Mangini. that would be bad. Another hallmark of the Browns since 1999 is the constent movement in the coaching staff.”
Such an absolute BS argument. Consistency is a goal if you are winning… if you are constantly losing, you do not want that kind of consistency.
Another hallmark of the Browns since 1999 is what their fired coaches have accomplished after leaving. Surely, if they were so good, it wouldn’t be difficult to find a job with another team, right?
To wit:
HC: Chris Palmer
Personnel: Dwight Clark
HC: Butch David
Personnel: Pete Garcia
Interim HC: Terry Robiskie
HC: Juliet Crennel
Personnel: Phil Savage
Not only did the Browns fire every one of them, how many are even in the NFL right now? None have gone on to other HC or GM gigs, and most haven’t secured any NFL work.
Nobody else wanted them, but the Browns were supposed to keep them around for consistency? Please.
And if it’s clear that Mangini/Kokinis aren’t the answer–which appears to me to be self-evident–there is no point in keeping them around either. Let them move on to the next college or broadcasting gig for washed-out NFL failures.
So much to catch up on:
Quinn should have played the 2nd half to see if he can get anything going, and if not, then you switch to DA for next week and let him get some timing back in practice. No one was going to bring the browns back in this game tho, so it was really detrimental to each QB to have put in DA.
I agree with half of this. Tasker said it during the broadcast: Peyton Manning’s rookie year, the Colts went 3-13, but he played EVERY SNAP OF EVERY GAME. And he learned. I’m not saying Quinn is going to be anywhere near as good as Manning; that’s tough for any QB to follow in those footsteps. But what’s the point of evaluating Quinn if you’re just going to pull him? Your argument that Quinn should have played out the second half and THEN DA should start the next game is you trying to hide your pure DA homerism because DA was 10 times worse than Quinn in the second half today. So, Quinn needs 12 quarters instead of just 10 to prove he’s an NFL QB? Give me a break.
Seriously, Quinn is garbage. Why is everyone so patient on him and not DA. HE HAD 29 TDs in a season!!! Everyone looks at 1 game and says he blows. His last 5 games last year he had 7 TDs to 2 INTs. He has a bad game every now and then, but overall he is a good qb.
Again, Quinn has made how many starts now? 5? And three of those were with the same offense that made DA look about as bad as he’s ever looked. How is not wanting to pull a guy five starts into his career “being so patient”? How many points did Super DA put up today? 3? After a PI penalty got most of the yards on his drive and on the replay if Ed Reed hadn’t accidentally hit Cribbs the ball would have been five yards behind/over his head. Give me a break.
Such an absolute BS argument. Consistency is a goal if you are winning… if you are constantly losing, you do not want that kind of consistency. … Nobody else wanted them, but the Browns were supposed to keep them around for consistency? Please.
THAT is a BS argument. Knee-jerk, party of 1… your table is ready!
So, anytime a coach (who had a winning record in his previous head coaching job, and whose previous team–of which he built most of it–is now 3-0) loses three games in a row, you fire him? Shoot, even Billy Martin is rolling in his grave, and Steinbrenner fired him more times that I can count.
I’m not saying Mangini is great. He leaves some things to be desired right now, including his choice in O.C. But, if you’re going to hire a coach, regardless of how your fans feel about him, you can’t can him three games in. It’s counter-productive to the long-term goal. Those guys you listed all had four years, with the exception of Palmer who was behind the 8-ball to begin with and Robiskie who was an interim. Mangini’s had THREE GAME. THREE. 3. Tres. This is apples and oranges, but I’m a Michigan fan who lives in Columbus. All of the d-bags who taunted me that Michigan should fire Rich Rod after one bad season look pretty silly. UofM isn’t going to any BCS games this year, but they’re already ahead of the win total for all of last year and it ain’t even the end of September yet.
hey, i think it was chris p is some such calling me out on this last week… is it ok to think about john fox now?
No. How many of us (myself included, admittedly) were sold that Cowher was coming here this year? John Fox still has a job. How many of us were mad at Lerner for identifying his guy as H.C. before waiting to see what other dominoes fell? Pretty much all of us. I thought Shanahan and even John Gruden deserved interviews, at least. But he went with his guy before even waiting to see who else might become available. And now you’re saying he should do the same thing?
I called 33-6 before the game.
I’ll be completely honest: Anyone who wants DA in favor of Quinn is an idiot who doesn’t know anything about football, coaching, personnel, or well any thing really. You are. Deal with it. It’s ok. I think they have support groups.
DA is a proven bad.
BQ is an unproven bad.
You play the unproven bad and hope that it becomes not bad. DA will never be good. BQ, while not giving us any hope yet, might still be decent. All the same, NO QB ON THIS TEAM CAN BE SUCCESSFUL.
Talk about out-of-context, DP. My comment which you quoted refers to the list of former Browns leadership.
Pointing out that not a single former Browns HC or GM since ’99 was rehired by another club is knee-jerk?
Sure thing, buddy…
And if you were referring to the part of my comment that you didn’t quote, about Mangini… for someone who thought it was a foolish decision to start with, no, it’s hardly knee-jerk.
Since you call my argument that consistency-for-consistency’s-sake-when-always-losing is BS, please share which of that list you think the Browns should have kept around?
Surely, since my argument that consistent losing isn’t a wise goal is BS, you must have favored one of those prior regimes?
If that’s not the case, then you may want to clarify when responding/quoting, or improve your reading comprehension.
And for further clarification, nowhere did I say to fire them after three games, so kindly don’t put words in my mouth (I’m perfectly fine giving them enough rope to hang themselves through the season, personally, but that’s not even remotely close the point of my earlier comment.)
I was arguing against another comment made saying that the Browns’ problem was lack of consistency in leadership. If somebody is a proven loser–for example, the complete list of Browns leaders which I provided and you apparently overlooked–then, yes, it is foolish to argue consistency as a reason to keep them around, and I fail to see how that’s BS.
DP, i was meaning see what quinn does in the 2nd half and if its still nothing (like ti has been) then they should make a change. DA was put in a nearly no-win sitaution, and they shot quinn confidence as you mentioned. DA still has the potential to move the offense. The PI penalty is the prime example because he threw it down there even tho it was a bad pass, it moved the chains. Quinn wouldnt have taken that. I did hear the Peyton Manning bit, but that was when he was a rookie. Quinn is a little over a year younger then DA. They are right around the same age, and ill put my money on DA having a better career. Look at Favre.. he has a ton of INTs along with a ton of TDs, and he gets it done. As long as you win no one cares about how its done (or at least I dont) and I think DA gives your offense a better chance to move the ball which is turns gives you a better chance to win.
3 INT per half =/= winning.
DA throws a lot of INTs.
also, comparing DA to Favre is like comparing steak to ground beef.
Yeah, they come from the same animal. Except one is awesome, and the other one is something you have every day and isn’t anything special.
Went back and looked at my own comment again… wow, DP, you didn’t just miss the list I offered… you actually combined a sentence from before the list of fired coaches with a sentence after I made the point with the list.
Nice hatchet job!
You could get a writer’s job at the NYT with those kinds of skills.
Well, thankfully I watched this game on Kelly’s Island after going on the Browns Cruise from Sandusky on the Goodtime 1 and by the time the second half came around I was feeling fine regardless of the game.
That said, I don’t think you can pull Quinn for the simple fact that now any game (or every) he plays bad he’ll be looking over his shoulder. Yes, DA had a very good year, once. Almost everything went perfect that year and if you watched the games, despite his stats he through some truly stupid passes that he got away with.
I think we got to see what BQ has this year and if it is nothing then dump them both in the off season and go in a different direction. I think this team it more talented than it looks in other areas, but until you got a solid QB you won’t see it.
Anyone interested there is another Brown’s cruise in October for the Steelers game. Its a wicked good time on the Goodtime. Sorry for the plug, but I think Denny is from Sandusky, so he should appreciate it!
they have to let BQ play out the rest of the season. he’s skiddish and green, i agree…but with that turnstile of a right side of the o-line, you can’t blame him too much. i’m a BQ fan, and i’m also annoyed by the constant check downs…but honestly, i was at the game last weekend – what do you want him to do? there is no one open. no. one. and with only 2 seconds to throw the ball, how can anyone get open?
how many times do you have to run to the right before you realize that it doesn’t work? i wonder what the splits are on runs to the left/right…it seems like 70% of their runs go to the worst part of their line…am i way off there?
great idea on drafting robiskie – even better was that he held out…pure awesomeness.
DA is pure trash. wipe that armpit off your chin, rube. who wears a go-tee? what a terrible look.
finally, look at who the browns have played so far – the yikes, broncos (who aren’t very good) and the ravens. the yikes may be the best team in the nfc and the ravens are one of the better if not the best team in the afc. the broncos are still undefeated.
13-3 should get them in the playoffs…ha. imagine that.
@Bat…
No, I didn’t miss the list at all. In fact, I referenced it (” Those guys you listed all had four years, with the exception of Palmer who was behind the 8-ball to begin with and Robiskie who was an interim.”). My comment wasn’t that those guys were great. Your point that none of them we rehired anywhere is valid, but it wasn’t what I was referring to. My point is that you’re lumping Mangini in with all of them after three games, whereas they all had multiple seasons of work in Cleveland to show they weren’t right for the job.
If we’re talking about Lerner’s hiring processes, then I’m not arguing at all. In fact, if you go back on this very site to the time period around the interviewing process and Mangini’s hiring, I said then and will say now that I didn’t want Mangini, I didn’t like the hiring process, but that I’d give him a couple of years to see what he could do.
My point was merely that if you start over for the sake of “cleaning house” every time a coach loses three games, this team will never go anywhere.
A few things:
1) Everyone is frustrated. More to a point, everybody seems to think they know how to fix the team. Fact is, the team is terrible. We knew this going in to the season. There are no easy solutions. And to think that after three games the whole thing should be scrapped is ridiculous. Maybe the team has given up on Mangini, or something. But still – it’s a very, very possible thing that the players on the team are just not very good at what they do relative to the rest of the league.
2) The owner very well may be horrible, but unless you walk away from the team and NEVER do anything to support the team financially, you can’t say things like “Lerner is gone!!” It’s insanely hard to walk away from something that you care about so much, but just saying that the owner must go and expecting it works is just silly. Honestly, there’s no way you can achieve this goal without just purely boycotting the team. Unless you’re a Russian multimillionaire.
3) As I said earlier, QB is a marquis problem. But until there are players around the QB who can make a difference, it doesn’t matter who plays there. The whole team is an abomination. Neither QB is very good. Either way it’s not the biggest issue this team has.
@ Big Show – indeed, I am from Sandusky but I live in DC now and never did any of the boat riding when I was still in Ohio. I’ve heard it’s pretty nifty though.
@bobby #114:
I know what your point was. My counter-point was that if you’re only going to give Quinn 12 quarters to evaluate him, why even play him at all? We’ve had basically two and a half seasons of DA starts, so we know what we have in him. We saw it again today: takes too many chances in the name of trying to make the big play.
You’ll get no argument from me that Quinn has not played well at all. My only point is that you are ready to run him out of town on a rail after five starts, three of which are with a shoddy offense and shoddy playcalling. My other point to dovetail with that is that you saw how bad this offense really is: DA played as bad or worse than Quinn did today. Game context doesn’t matter; DA was miserable today. The only scoring drive he led was penalty-aided, and he turned the ball over three times, two of which were very costly in that they set the Ravens up with solid field position that led to two more TDs.
I guess what I don’t understand is why you think replacing Quinn with DA will somehow improve all of the myriad other areas in which this offense is dreadful. We’ve seen enough of DA to know his ceiling: big arm, capable of a great game now and then, but not clutch and not careful enough with the ball.
My point is that we haven’t seen enough of Quinn to know what his ceiling is (and I’m not saying it’s a high ceiling, just that we don’t know) and that I don’t see how you giving him just two more quarters would somehow clarify that. DA’s had 2.5 years; Quinn deserves just that much of a chance. But you blasted us for “having too much patience” with Quinn and not with DA. I think it’s quite the contrary. I’ve seen the DA movie too many times; I know how it ends.
WHAT A JOKE OF A FRANCHISE!!!! IM NOT ROOTING FOR THE BROWNS UNTIL LERNER SELLS THE DAMN TEAM!!!!
They stink…absolutely awful The absolute best we can expect is MEDIOCRITY, a very sad observation. Put in Ratliffe at QB. Bench the whole offense. They are OFFENSIVE. Put in the third string offense. At least if we lose with them, we have a legitimate excuse. Let the first string sit on the bench for the next 9 games. These guys don’t want to play. Let them earn their positions back.
Do the same thing with the defense after next week.
If we can’t win with the first teams, at least we can lose respectably with the third teams
With DA at the helm it’s like a brand new season….I just think he needs shock thearpy with every pick he throws.
🙁
That’s all I can say right now.
somewhere Isis is sitting in the dark laughing to himself “I told you so, I told you so!”
I think that I posted on this blog after the draft about how terrible the Browns’ would be this year and how solid the Bengals draft class looked. You all jumped all over me and my team with the normal silly insults. I’m pretty much over, but I just wanted say on last thing: I was right, you jerks! Enjoy futility.