Guest Post: On Rob Kurz
September 22, 2009What consequences will Delonte suffer –
September 22, 2009At least not yet, if you please. The Cleveland Browns hit rock bottom last year like a drug addict or alcoholic. Braylon Edwards dropped every pass thrown his way. Derek Anderson seemed on the verge of tears as we booed him. Brady Quinn got a chance to start and got hurt. Kellen Winslow acted like a baby in another wasted year of injuries on his way to getting his agent to make him the richest tight end in the land. Romeo Crennel was curing his problems with challenging plays, by refusing to ever challenge another play as he continued to pout over the loss of Maurice Carthon, whom he refused to fire. As all this was happening Phil Savage was sending profane emails to fans while failing miserably at managing anything but his scouting operation. Like a drug addict, the Browns have been sent back to rehab and his name is Eric Mangini.
Don’t get me wrong. I know that because I refuse to hate everything with a blind rage I get painted as an apologist all the time. So here is my normal disclaimer. I am not guaranteeing that this regime is going to put the Browns in the Super Bowl. I am also not standing behind the process whereby Randy Lerner hired Mangini 100%. I have just as many questions and doubts about the Browns’ staff and coordinators as the rest of you. The difference is with the perception that I watch the Browns right now.
I am sure a lot of you are familiar with the serenity prayer.
God grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the things I can;
And wisdom to know the difference.
And with that in mind, consider the following. Mangini is probably going to be here for the next three years at least. No amount of complaining will change that. Those who want to magically revisit the hiring process can not. Mack, Massoquai, Robiskie and Veikune are under contract here. Instead of wasting time talking about who could be here, it is time to just root like crazy that they hit the field soon and succeed. Those criticisms are valid, but their expiration dates have passed and won’t be renewed for a while. I am not trying to make you think that the glass is half full. Far from it, in fact. I just want everyone to remember that last year the glass was completely empty.
Mangini has made mistakes with this team. The QB competition was carried way too far and it has cost the Browns dearly in the first couple of weeks. At the same time, consider this. The Browns made mistakes against Minnesota like running the wildcat twice. Mangini and Daboll took ownership of the mistake. Also, in the first game, we didn’t see hardly any three and four receiver sets to try and take some pressure off the offensive line. In game two, even though it didn’t work exceptionally, the Browns had Furrey out there along with Edwards, Cribbs and even Massoquai to try something different. The Browns wanted to get Cribbs involved by running an end-around. Ultimately it was only a four yard gain when they finally handed him the ball, but they faked it at least twice in order to set it up. I know we want results, but without attempts at adjustments you can never figure out what works. This coaching staff is trying different things and acknowleging mistakes. That is much more than we can say about the Romeo Crennel era.
Even if Mangini isn’t the coach to take this team to the top, I feel like he is a great guy to work this team through rehab. He is attempting to instill a sense of responsibility and so far has led the charge on that. He is attempting to instill a sense of work ethic. He ran training camp in a way that seems more befitting of the game of football than Club Romeo.
When ProFootballTalk wrote about that fine against a player for not covering a $3 bottle of water at the hotel, it seemed extreme. Rumor has it that the player who was fined might have been Abe Elam. That shed a little light on the situation for me. I am just guessing, but I think Mangini decided to make an example out of Elam for the purposes of driving home the culture he wants to create. What better player to do that with than one of his own guys that he went out and personally brought in via trade this off-season? Do you think that speaks to the rest of the guys on this team who are holdovers from the failed Savege / Crennel era? Maybe it is a complete mistake for Mangini to be so hard on a player, but I don’t know, you don’t know and ProFootballTalk only pretends to know.
The point is that this team was off the rails when Mangini arrived. Now they are in rehab trying to cure themselves of all those horrible bad habits. After two weeks of losses, instead of looking at the team and trying to find indications that the rehab might be working, all I read are criticisms and damnation. When an actor goes into rehab it is so they can find a way to start working again. Nobody expects them to walk out of rehab and on stage to receive their Oscar. Maybe in Cleveland people would.
I know we all want results. I want to see wins too. All the old clichés hold true, though. You have to walk before you can run. You have to be broken down before you can be molded back into shape. On down the line. Is it so far out of the realm of possibility that this is all just a part of the process after a 4-12 season? And again, this isn’t to say that Mangini, and company have done everything right. I am sure they have made a lot of mistakes along the way. Then again, it seems like so many of you have already dropped the gavel of judgment on them as failures who need to go now. It is way too early for that judgement even if some of you may eventually be proven right.
So go ahead and call my an apologist now. I am just trying to show you that I don’t find rooting and criticism / skepticism to be mutually exclusive. It is ok to be disappointed with losses, and point out mistakes, but to jump to the conclusions that Quinn needs to sit and that Mangini needs to be fired are way too pre-mature. It is part of the acidic Browns culture that has persisted since 1999. Just watch the team, root your heart out for progress, and be constructive in your criticisms. It isn’t like we thought they were going to the Super Bowl anyway. They deserve criticism sometimes, but we can’t help them by damning them, either. We deserve better, but irrational negativity doesn’t help us get it.
47 Comments
What is Whinging?
BLOW UP THE TEAM…LITERALLY. MURDER EVERYONE INVOLVED.
Good post
Craig, the problem is that they could have brought ANY coach in to instill more discipline than Romeo. Why Mangini?
The game is simply not fun right now — I’m not even looking forward to watching them on Sunday — and it is directly attributable to Mangini’s management style (phlegmatic), a vanilla offensive strategy (horizontal), and draft picks that embody the Mangini “philosophy” (Mack, Robiskie, Veikune, etc).
The whole concept of the Cleveland Browns organization is ill-conceived, and you have to put this on the guy who installed Mangini, the man they call “Soccer Boy.”
Your invocation of the serenity prayer was hilarious. No doubt that those words are very valuable in the flow of one’s normal life, but they’re not really applicable in a football league where the ethos is “win now”.
Sorry Craig, but your premise is wrong. Go ahead and “wish” for the best here, given what you know. But, it’s far far far from certainty just how long Mangini will be here, and another view is that the longer he is here the more damage will be done. To ignore what’s going on and put your head in the sand as some sort of catharsis won’t get you or your team further ahead. This IS truly Randy Lerner’s last stand, and as the reality of HIS coaching choice mounts, he’ll get closer and closer to selling the team.
If you want to ignore the drafts, the lack of an Exec VP heading the organization, lack of a GM, Mangini’s past/present protocol, the horrific current draft that contributes nothing to the team’s growth……….then you’ll get no closer to what you want and deserve from the Browns. At some point you need to take a stand other than yes, always being the apologist.
The sooner this situation gets rectified the sooner you’ll get a real organization……unless you really think Mangini can trump a VP/GM/experienced professional coach. Three plus year of this regime will take the franchise down another decade-and you are willing to sit back and feel this is rehab? You get what you ask for………..you need to demand accountability from Lerner instead of eating out of his hand.
@#3 Humboldlt-well said my man. You’re dead on.
Craig, don’t forget about the value proposition that is a season ticket package as you ponder the optimism that is Mangini “for at least the next three years”. I trust you are one of those that will be paying thousands of dollars during that time for the product/organization/regime you are recommending be given full throated support?
How to Be a Good and Patient Browns Fan
By: Craig
I’m inspired. Can we get an article about Tim Tebow and his ‘doing things the right way’ next?
If this were a movie, Craig, I’d be standing up right now starting a slow clap. THANK YOU for pointing out that Rome wasn’t built in a day. After the Romeo administration ran the team into the ground, we HAVE to give more than a preseason and 2 regular season games for this franchise to improve. I went on record as being behind the hiring of Mangini. I don’t agree with the process, but he’s our coach. I have the faith in him and his staff that this team will turn things around. Like Craig said, he may not lead us to a Super Bowl, but this team is headed in the right direction.
Craig, I could go along with all of that if it wasn’t for one unforgivable mistake: the turd pants.
FIRE MANGINI NOW!!!
Well said Craig. I’m with you on this, and while I may not purchase goods/tickets without some ROI on the field, I’m fully behind the franchise. I don’t think Lerner is trying to pull a Rachel Phelps. And if i’m not mistaken, there are some terrible owners in the league that have been terrible owners for decades, and never sold. Not sure being bad is a sign of surefire sale. Not that it matters. Isis knows all, we can only hate everything and be satisfied that our hatred (though even though we hate, we watch every second of every game and take note of every detail) will cause change for the better! Yes, hating the team and the product creates change! Like it did in Cincinatti! Detroit! Oakland!
If I could add another point, look at the Cavaliers as an example. Between the hey-days of Lenny Wilkens teams and the current squad, the team was God awful. The coaches (Fratello, Whittman, Lucas, Silas) were atroicious, for the most part. Everyone wants instant gratification. If you want that, buy a scratch off. The Cavs took the appropriate steps to put them in place for annual contention. Did anyone think they would be perennial contenders before the arrival of Lebron, Mike Brown, Dan Gilbert, and Danny Ferry? I doubt it. Let’s have a little faith in the Browns and their orginization, like we did for the Cavaliers.
If the Browns go 0-16, Mangini won’t be the coach next year.
Well said and well timed Craig. I think all of us were feeling the desire to pull out the torches and go all Villagers vs. Frankenstien this week.
@Jay – every year in the NFL, without fail, there are lousy teams that turn themselves around (see 2008 Arizona Cardinals, Atlanta Falcons amongst others). A little competent leadership and good drafting can go a long way in a league w/ so much built in parity.
It is not unreasonable to demand a good output from an NFL team from year to year, nor is it unreasonable to “whinge” a bit when the team performs at a level inferior to the worst teams in the league.
@Isis #4 “Sorry Craig”
I accept your apology, Isis.
What? I stopped reading after the Ctrl-V.
Isis, Im happy for you and imma let you finish, but Peter King had the most repetitive and uninteresting weekly blather of ALL TIME. OF ALL TIME
/Kanye’d
I love that this is “Randy Lerner’s last stand” and that he is going to get closer to selling the team. HA! Randy has no obligation to sell this team. ever.
— “Yes, hating the team and the product creates change! Like it did in Cincinatti! Detroit! Oakland!”
So, if we love our team they will turn into the New England Patriots. We just gotta love harder. [Key background musice – “Love hurts…”]
I hate the Steelers. They win Super Bowls. There has to be something to this hate thing.
Great article Craig!! NEWS FLASH: Isis doesn’t like Mangini and the Browns draft picks. How can we give a grade to this year’s draft picks ofter week 2. Look I’m not going to back this up with any data because I have a real life, but Troy Palamalau was god awful his rookie year. Now look at him, one of, if not the best safety in the league. We all just need to relax and have some patience. Isis, you always say look back at history to help tell us what the future brings right? Well Mangini had one losing season in NY. I will take that, because a winning season may get you to the playoffs!!!! So quit copying all your posts we get that you don’t like Mangini. Go root for another team and stay off of this site.
Craig, I like your sentiment here. As a fan of the team we get emotional, want to get emotional and have every right to do so. I’m never going to knock a Browns fan for that. But it doesn’t always serve us the best when trying to make a reasonable assessment of what’s going on.
On a scale of
– sh*t,
– suck,
– good and,
– great
The Browns are sh*t. We knew this going in. It would be nice to see them get up to suck by the end of the year. Maybe even good in a few areas.
BQ is a joke, Jamal is old, and Braylon still has hands like my mom. IF they had any kind of O-line or Edwards would catch a ball last year DA would be in his 3rd year and be a pretty good QB. You cant have it both ways Cleveland. You cant say you need to bulid and then you have a young guy throw 27TDs one year and then begin to trash him the next once he is struggling. Your city is like every other NFL city, win now or leave. The minute BQ was given the ball you took a step backwards. He is an overrated baby, that got a gift contract from you guys that he didnt deserve. And I dont get how you can complain about Kellen other than him being a trash talker. “Another year of injuries?” After his 2 years of being hurt and almost killed in that dumb motorcycle accident he became an elite TE. Last year he actually had an on the field injury. So let me get this straight, after showing promise if you struggle you have to go? How does that build on anything? And after 2 games Mangini is already getting written off? And since a play doesnt work it is a mistake? That being said, Cleveland is like everyother NFL franchise. The fans know better than the coaches and owners. You want change, but complain after 2 loses. As with most teams (well except for the 12 playoff teams) you wont be going anywhere near January. And once you realize that it will make it easier being a fan. At this point as I watch on Sunday I dont have any reason to complain. This is what I expected (as did you) out of this season. The Browns are a 6-10 team at best. DOnt get me wrong BQ will have flashes of brillance, but he isnt the answer this season. The season was already set in stone when he was handed the ball.
@19, not saying we need to love harder. But hate sure doesn’t help either. Also, if we were any good, we’d stop waiting for next year and begin enjoying this year. Then we’d have nothing to talk about.
@ # 1 Lebron3eb
Whinging is like dialogue of the colour grey at the theatre with a draught beer.
@ humboldt – you are absolutley right. I can not argue that fact. The only problem is the majority of the time those ‘turn-around’ teams are one hit wonders. Sure you get the occasional team that turns it around for a really long time (see: Patriots during and after Bellicheck’s second season) but 9 times out of ten they’re back to being busts.
@ BEkilledDA – “and Braylon still has hands like my mom”
If you’re mom can get us 6 touches for 96 yds. maybe she should be our #2 WR opposite of Braylon.
This is an idiotic post. We’re fans we have no recourse but to complain. This Mangini thing is going to be an unmitigated disaster. Let me ask a question. How can the Jets team that Mangini left and is missing “his guys” be 2-0 with a rookie quarterback? Shouldn’t they theoretically be going through the same “rehab” process? Oh I get it, Mangini took his discipline, attention to detail and players with him. Eric Mangini hasn’t done anything, anywhere and because we have a clueless out to lunch owner (who is hasn’t done anything himself except inherit money), he allowed himself to get bamboozled by the guy. This is a classic example of another Cleveland franchising wandering in the wilderness with no chance of winning because ownership is content to collect it’s residual checks from the league and sit in cocktails parties in New York with other rich people.
#24 – We’ll always have the Tribe.
@ davelogan – If I owned a professional sports team I would probably reside wherever the hell I wanted. If that happened to be New York, I’d hang out there with other people of influence. I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Do you really think Dan Gilbert spends his time hanging out with the everyman in Cleveland, getting drunk in the Flats and offering tributes of rum to an effigy of Bernie Kosar every night –
JoBernie?
WFNY Edit: Twitpic link
I like this post, Craig. I think everyone needs to calm down a little bit. This is essentially Brady Quinn’s first season. Go look at any first-round-draft-pick-who-became-great’s season and you will see that they take a while to gel and for the game to slow down. The game is fast for Quinn right now. He can’t make his reads fast enough and is checking down to his safe play just about every time. Matt Ryan is the exception… not the norm. Look at Peyton Manning’s first season (16 games started, 26 TDs, 28 INTs, 71.2 passer rating)… or Eli Manning’s first season (9 games started, 6 TDs, 9 INTs, 55.4 passer rating)… or Carson Palmer’s first season (13 games started, 18 TDs, 18 INTs, 77.3 passer rating) or even John Elway (11 games started, 7 TDs, 14 INTs, 54.9 passer rating).
It’s just way too early to start wondering where the wins are. This is a new offense this year as well. We should all be expecting another 5-6 win season at best. As is the title of this blog, we should all be waiting for next year. I like what Craig has noted and I think it could be a recipe for success… time will tell.
@Denny – I think the point is that Lerner displays no real emotional connection to the team. Even an occasional show of feigned interest/passion would help the fan base relate better to him, and might make people more tolerant of his executive decisions (ie. Mangini/Kokinis).
@ #27 “How can the Jets team that Mangini left and is missing “his guys” be 2-0 with a rookie quarterback?”
Mangini only has a few of “his guys” from the Jets and that team at its core was 9-7 last year with Brett Favre tossing interceptions down the stretch. To try and compare that team and its development level with the 4-12 Browns just because that is where the coach ended up is ludicrous.
And as I said multiple times in my “idiotic” post, Mangini et al may not end up working out at all. My problem is with the timing and tone of the criticism. The time to criticize about Mangini’s hiring has passed. He is here. Now we should criticize in some form of constructive manner to see if this team can improve in its current form.
Ultimately whether we agree with all the decisions made by anybody associated with the Browns or not, we ALL HAVE THE EXACT SAME GOALS. Brady Quinn, Eric Mangini, Braylon Edwards, George Kokinis, and yes, even Randy Lerner want to find a way to beat the Steelers twice a year on the way to the playoffs. You can pretty well assume that Mangini will be given multiple years to put the Browns on that path.
So, instead of just continuing to harp on Lerner and the way in which he hired Mangini and Kokinis, why not try and help them get better at their jobs on the way to turning this team around? Didn’t Bill Belichick improve as a coach over time from the Cleveland days to New England?
I am not predicting or guaranteeing it will happen, but isn’t that the common goal for everyone now that the chips have fallen into their respective places this year?
But I guess I am just a dreamer and an apologist.
@27
Denny’s just PMS’ing because tOSU band did a DOUBLE Script Ohio last Saturday.
at the risk of whining… i think it’s also important to remember this: if you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
the handwriting was on the wall with romeo for a long time but after he was whack there was no plan for a replacement. no strategy about getting best of breed coach and GM. not even an advisor to help lerner pick someone.
that seems to have happened five times in ten years. i’d like to break this cycle.
so.
my _opinion_ is that it is important to recognize serious problems with mangini already.
* whiffing on four draft picks in the 1-2 rounds.
* mismanagement of the qb situation.
* alienating the players with the absurd bus ride to connecticut.
* and now… failing to game plan effectively.
it’s not whining. it’s recognizing warning signs, confronting the potential reality, and preparing for it. preparation includes a plan for when to pull the plug and how to move afterward.
trust me… i’ll be tuned in all season. i hope like hell that brady gets it together; that if he doesn’t DA gets a shot to save the season; that mack/robiskie/massaquoi/veikune are studs; the mangini discipline results in smarter play.
i really hope these things happen. but i haven’t seen it yet… i’ve seen regression. you gotta call it out.
@ Chuck. This was my attempt. You win.
@ Mr Cleaveland – I was trying to figure out why I only hate Script Ohio 7 days a month.
@ Humbolt – that’s true, and I can see your point that having a detached robot running the team isn’t good for morale.
@29/Denny: I SAW that. Put it right there, right at the end. Man up.
No more stylistic criticism for you.
[…] in the comments section of Craig’s short-winded abstract of a discussion today I mentioned something about tithing rum to an effigy of Bernie Kosar. Commenter Chuck […]
Lerner is fleecing Cleveland. Cleveland, get some backbone and do something else on Sunday.
@#33 – my sentiments exactly. I have said, much like Craig, that I disagreed with the hiring process. Right here on this very site, in fact. But, because I wasn’t willing to goose-step in line with the Isis “HE MUST GO NOW!” line, I’m a kool-aid drinker. Sweet and tasty.
It’s not like Rex Ryan went into NY and turned over THE ENTIRE ROSTER. Who built the o-line and running game that Sanchez enjoys in New York? It wasn’t Rex Ryan. Mangini had one losing year during which his team was decimated by injuries, and truthfully he got the axe last year because his GM and owner foisted an injured, aging, gunslinging QB on him for ticket sales, and said QB ended up costing them a couple of games down the stretch.
I don’t like some of the ways Mangini handles himself, and I don’t guarantee that his past successes–such as they were–in New York will automatically breed future successes here in Cleveland. But, THIS TEAM IS HORRIBLE. The roster was barren, and the new regime inhereted a bunch of players they didn’t want making too much money and the salary cap issues that go with them.
HOWEVER, I don’t subscribe to Isis’s exploitation of anything as an excuse to rip the guy (I believe during the pre-season, the loss to Green Bay was in part attributed by him to “Mangini’s slovenly appearance,” when he forgets that Mike Nolan wore a freaking suit on the sidelines and his 49er teams were garbage on ice).
Finally, saying the team has “whiffed” on their top four draft picks after TWO [BLEEP]ING GAMES is completely asinine.
@ #40 – Amen, brother. Alex Mack seems far from a whif. We haven’t seen enough from the other guys to know otherwise, so lighten up a bit people. We all knew this team would be bad this year, and they are so far. We all also hoped that they would improve. There’s no reason to lose that hope because there are, *ahem*, 14 @%$#$@&ING GAMES LEFT!!
Personally, I’ve always been partial to Iced Blue Kool-Aid
Great article.
I hate to see “fans” jumping ship so early, and I’m frustrated that people are getting bent out of shape over an athlete making millions of dollars having to pay a relatively insignificant fine for being dishonest.
I think Mangini is doing a great job in Cleveland, especially seeing as he was left with such a small amount of talent on this team. At least now we have people stepping up and taking responsibility for poor performances.
I still think we can manage 6 wins out of this season, but for sure the play has to get better. Once the offense gets on the same page we should see a marked turnaround both on the scoreboard and the stat sheets.
Go Browns!
OH YEAHH!!!
While I want tp support this team, I actually despise so many players on this team. Couple that with how absolutely boring they are, and this season is a complete waste.
“Finally, saying the team has “whiffed” on their top four draft picks after TWO [BLEEP]ING GAMES is completely asinine.”
now see, this is how i get in trouble with my girlfriend. she takes me literally and i plead hyperbole and it doesn’t work with her either.
HOWEVER!! come on… is anyone willing to stand up and say we scored huge on our draft picks? of course it’s early… but it’s also been an entire training camp plus two games and the eye-test on alex mack is there for all to see. the 36th overall pick is a DNP? those are the obvious concerns… but let’s not forget carey and lockett were cut and claimed by jax and ne while we kept poteat. not that it matters but bartel was better than ratliff.
i know we want to be positive … but geez … that’s a lot of misses already.
and no, i did not know this team would be terrible. i expected it to be competitive. i expected BQ plus a smarter coach and fresh LBs and improved BE would be a considerable improvement over last year. i expected improvement from week one to week two. so i find their current state especially troublesome.
so anyway diesel… i’ll retract ‘whiff’ but you gotta admit the draft looks sub-par, no?
jim– a whiff is a whiff and thats what we got. ray m. was a 2nd rounder and therefore just as inexpensive, he starts and contributes. he is taking a 4-16 team down to 0-16. how rosy will the picture be when the they start 0-4. they may beat buffalo or detroit, but not the way they are playing now.