Browns Week 4 Open Thread: Cincinnati Bengals
October 4, 2009While We’re Waiting… Browns Moral Victories, Kevin Garnett’s Knee, and Goodbye 2009 Tribe
October 5, 2009
on
Baby Steps?
We will have more on this game on Monday at 10:00 AM, but for now, here are the raw notes from the game today by quarter. I am sure there are a lot of dejected fans out there right now, but I am slightly more encouraged than I was following any of the games the first three weeks. It still doesn’t amount to a win in the standings, but we need some baby steps here.
First Quarter
- I am not sure that two teams who rely on the color orange as a part of their identities should ever choose to wear pink. Then again despite the clashing, you can’t argue with the cause. Still, there is no denying the clash.
- Mike Furrey was at safety when the Browns went to the dime package in the first quarter. I know it doesn’t provide much comfort to fans of an 0-3 team, but the coaching staff hasn’t stood pat with any of their failures so far this year. Nothing has worked yet, but I can’t help but remember watching Willie McGinest trot his old body onto the field week after week the last few years.
- Browns blocking a field goal in the first quarter could have been a huge momentum shift. The Browns went three and out for 43 seconds and a drop for Braylon Edwards. 9th career field goal block for Shaun Rogers is positive, I guess.
- Early on the Browns had a lot of opportunities on defense due to the Bengals offensive penalties. Two false starts, and a delay of game put the Bengals in more difficult down and distance scenarios.
- Browns hold on 3rd and three from their own 35-ish only to see the Bengals convert on 4th and three with a ten yard toss play.
- Eric Mangini used his first challenge of the season on the Ochocinco touchdown catch. The score was later confirmed, but the control of the ball was questionable enough that I thought it was a decent time to take a look. Just frustrating that Ochocinco made such a great catch over Eric Wright. It wasn’t bad coverage.
- The Browns get the ball back with 35 seconds left in the first quarter and they have had possession for 52 seconds on one opportunity. Not a good way to set the tone.
- Josh Cribbs had an electric return, and he wasn’t really touched until the Bengals’ 45 yard line.
- That’s the end of the first quarter.
2nd Quarter
- After getting their first 1st down of the game, Jerome Harrison coughed up the ball on a gang tackle. Insult was added to injury because he was close to having his forward progress stopped and the Bengals got to keep a ball in the first quarter where the forward progress was ruled stopped. Bengals return the ball to the house for a 14-0 lead. Harrison definitely fumbled by the way.
- If the game wasn’t out of reach, that turnover really helped to seemingly take the wind right out of the team.
- I can’t tell you how tired I am already of seeing this ridiculous amount of deliberate motion between two tight ends. Just line up and run a play already.
- Finally, the Browns connected for a positive play. Mohamed Massoquai catches an Anderson bullet down the sidelines for 30 yards.
- The TV crew is discussing all the offensive coordinators that Derek Anderson has had over the years, but I resent the use of Carthon’s name and the word “coordinator” in the same sentence. Just ask Trent Dilfer.
- Derek Anderson made a pretty good throw to Mike Furrey on a third and ten play, but Furrey didn’t turn quickly enough to catch it even though it was practically in his breadbasket.
- Browns kept the defense off the field for almost five whole minutes to start the second quarter! The D responds by forcing the Bengals to a three and out.
- Did CBS just come back from break with a “Screamo” song? Is this 2002?
- Derek Anderson completed a great pass to Massoquai, but almost followed it up with a turnover as he threw to Massoquai deep with a safety coming over the top for double coverage. That’s DA for you.
- On my other TV I have the Colts game on, and I can’t tell you enough (again) how much I hate the Fox Sports robot and the “Electric Slide” dance that it does.
- Derek Anderson is actually playing pretty well. Drops by Braylon, Furrey and Robert Royal are not helping his stat line any.
- Browns defense forces a nice turnover. Shaun Rogers put some huge pressure on Palmer and the result was an overthrown pass that Brodney Pool picked off.
- Josh Cribbs having a big return game if you need him. 39 yard punt return to go along with a giant kickoff return.
- Mohamed Massoquai is set to be the most added player in fantasy football this week! In the first half, Massoquai has 3 catches for 84 yards and nearly scored on the one pass play.
- THANKFULLY, the Browns scored to Steve Heiden from the 1 yard line. Bengals 14 – Browns 7.
- Halftime Bengals 14 – Browns 7
3rd Quarter
- The Browns were driving well. They appeared to be developing a nice offensive rhythm with a passing game and running game with Jerome Harrison and Chris Jennings. Harrison even had a 21 yard carry to take the Browns to about the Bengals 10.
- Derek Anderson then threw an interception to Jonathan Joseph in the end zone. It was a really bad read by Derek Anderson, and in that situation he needed to come out with a field goal opportunity at minimum.
- Credit the Browns’ defense for forcing a punt on a three and out immediately following the interception.
- I want to avoid talking about Massoquai catching the ball the way most fans want to avoid a perfect game in progress.
- The Browns capped off a decent drive with a bootleg run for a TD by Derek Anderson and they are actually competing with another NFL team after 14 unanswered points. The TV producers are running out of boilerplate stats for futility.
- Meanwhile, the Browns offense has won the time of possession battle for two straight quarters after getting toasted in the first quarter.
- Browns forced a turnover on special teams on the kickoff and Blake Costanzo made an improbable recovery by yanking the ball out of the pile.
- Billy Cundiff nails a field goal for the Browns to take the lead 17-14. Browns failed to convert 3rd and 1 which was disappointing.
4th Quarter
- Browns’ defense holds Cincy to a three and out to start the quarter. Amazing how this defense plays when it is relatively fresh.
- Browns force another three and out and Josh Cribbs puts up another giant punt return to the Bengals’ 15 yard line. 53 yards in total. 212 on the day at this point.
- The Browns’ offense really got conservative here almost looking to set up the field goal. Derek Anderson took a pretty bad sack, but he didn’t turn the ball over. Would have liked to see the Browns really go for the end zone, but in the end they get a Cundiff field goal. 20-14 lead for the Brownies.
- The feeling right now is that this conservatism could cost the Browns big time. @ClevelandLeader says “These field goals may kill us in the end.” The Browns “faithful” only have so much faith and you can’t blame them.
- The Browns’ defense gets complacent or something. The Bengals rip off three plays in a row of 20+ and all the old feelings come right back to the top for Browns fans. 1st and goal from the 5 with just under 3 minutes left in the game and a 6 point lead.
- 4th and goal from the 3 yard line with 2:02 remaining and the Browns’ fans worldwide are all thinking the same thing. Here is where the Bengals score a game winner and all that “progress” will be for nothing.
- And that is what happens as Carson Palmer holds the ball for a 6 month span before throwing to Chad Ochocinco in the end zone. The Browns will have 1:55 to try and win the game.
- AND THE BROWNS BLOCK THE EXTRA POINT AS SHAUN ROGERS BLOCKS ANOTHER KICK! Game remains tied with the Browns getting the ball back with just under two minutes to try and win it!
- Sorry for the play-by-play nature of the last two bullets, but that moment in the game must live on regardless of the outcome.
- The Browns stalled out on their last possession and after seeing the Bengals’ offense shred the Browns’ defense on the last drive, you have to hope the Browns win the toss here.
- And the Bengals of course won the toss and will receive. Browns fans everywhere are shuddering in fear.
Overtime
- Alex Hall was offsides on the kickoff and forced the Browns to kick it again. That is the second time in as many weeks, it I remember correctly, that the Browns have been offsides on a kickoff.
- Browns really needed to show something on their first possession in the overtime, but they went quietly on the three and out. Browns fan panic is at an all-time high.
- I just saw Shaun Rogers do an impression of Dwight Freeney with the spin move to bring up a 3rd and 8 for the Bengals.
- Kamerion Wimbley follows it up with a sack of Palmer forcing another punt. The Bengals were very very smart to keep kicking it far away from Josh Cribbs.
- Not to be a total downer on a day where Derek Anderson is attempting to resuscitate the Browns and his career, but he stared down receivers all day long, it seemed. Or maybe it was just me.
- Mike Furrey had great coverage on Caldwell in overtime. Who would have thought?
- Was anyone really surprised when Carson Palmer scrambled for about 14 yards on 3rd and 10?
- The Bengals put Shayne Graham on the field to kick the field goal. The Browns defense played well, but apparently not well enough to win today.
- Bengals 23 – Browns 20
48 Comments
That FG looked wide to me.
3 times in the red zone in the 2nd half; INT, FG, FG. Same old Browns offense. Still at least it was entertaining, but COME ON, why so conservative in the 2nd half and OT?
That was nice of Mangini to show solidarity with the Breast Cancer Survivors by proving he also does not have cajones. He had a chance – a CHANCE – to win the game with 19 seconds left. And he punted.
And now we’ve lost 10 in a row.
i agree. I think it doesnt hurt to try to pass that w/ 19 seconds left. if you miss cincy still needed like 25 yards to be set up for a 52 yard fg. theyd have what, 12 seconds or so if its incomplete.
bobby-please tell us again how enamoured you are with DA and your desire to jettison BQ. Then look at the schedule and see if you’d like to modify your prediction of nine “plausible” wins.
While you’re at it bobby, please recount for us who threw the interception in the end zone that was the differential in the outcome?
Kudos to Rob Ryan for showing passion and emotion and for getting his troops to overcome a rugged first quarter and play a tremendous game thereafter. What’s with the smirk on Daboll’s face all the time, what’s he got to smirk about?
ya isis, it was all DA who lost the game. Lets forget Harrison fumbling and that going for a TD (which is at least a 10 point turnaround) and lets forget that DA got our first O TD (that actually meant something) since NOV last year! Lets forget our D could have stopped Palmer instead of losing containment and letting him run for a 15 yard gain and a 1st down on 4th. Your Right Isis. DA lost this game for us. Try to tell me Quinn would have done better you joke.
Today was a plausible win. We probably should have. The only other one i thought we should have won so far, was the DEN game, and with DA, I bet we would have at least been in it. Quinn cannot move the offense. theres still chances to win, sure, now the number is down to like 6-7 that we have a legit shot on paper to win.
DA > BQ It’s nothing to argue about. BQ will never be a good QB. He does not deserve any more playing time. Play the best player you have. This sounds too logical, I know.
DA ALL THE WAY!
DA= mediocre QB. That’s what he is. That’s his body of work. He’s better than Quinn though.
Let’s not celebrate hollow moral victories. Because the Browns took the BENGALS to overtime, we’re supposed to be proud? Average teams pull out games like this at home. Palmer was awful. Ochocinco dropped 5 balls. Benson had 60 yards. At the end of the day, another “L” goes in the win/loss column. So stop looking for silver linings. This team is awful.
DA moved the offense. Quinn barely did anything in three games. Only a moron would still say Quinn is better and DA is a bum. Oh wait I forgot Isis already did. OH WE SHOULD HAVE DRAFTED MALAUGA!!!!!
Browns are much better with DA…it’s like a whole new team….
Is it just me, or did the offense have zero off-sides penalties?
Anderson is a loser. And as long as he is starting for us, the Browns will be losers.
If Quinn had played this game, we would have won 35-20.
Browns 2009 opponents so far are 13-2.
Minnesota 3-0
Denver 4-0
Baltimore 3-1
Cincinnati 3-1
hahahahahahaha good joke 16.
Mangini lost that game with timid crap play calling. He was totally gutless, and to top it off he was completely retarded. Who the hell calls a time out with 2:02 left, on a 4th down play. REALLY?! because if they don’t convert, its a stop clock on change of possession, and if they do, the clock still stops. What a total bonehead move. Oh yea, and his challenges were pathetic. F Mangini.
No one knows if Quinn is any good. DA is a serviceable backup. Before you call me a Quinnbot see below.
Did Quinn have Masaqui and Heiden???…. NO
Who was the difference on offense today???… See above.
The only thing this proves is that Braylon Edwards is a do nothing bum.
Closing thoughts, why didn’t or why dont we try out free agent Matt Jones????
My two cents….
@18
bobby, Anderson is a loser, he has always been a loser, and he will always be a loser. But you DA lovers can go ahead and spout his meaningless stats and enjoy your moral victories all you want.
Anderson is a loser, and so is Mangini.
It was beautiful to see a QB who could actually throw a pass downfield this week. DA looks MUCH better and can actually move the offense, if only we wouldn’t have gotten super-conservative play calling in the 4th Quarter and OT today we probably would have won.
Things still aren’t rosy in Cleveland, but if we’re thinking about building this team, we’re in fine enough hands with DA at the helm for this season and next to use our draft picks on things other than a QB before worrying about drafting the next great thing out of college. With Quinn at the helm it looked like we might go 0-16, with DA (through one game of course) there’s hope of wins.
I hate Moral Victories! But I am a Cleveland fan and that is all I have and will ever have at least the rest of this year.
By the way, who are these Quinn backers. My wife has been angry at me for having a Brady “man” crush for the last three years, but even I admit that DA looked better and our offense looked better today. I still hate DA’s decision making, can’t scramble, or throw with touch but at least he can throw to his recievers.
quinn haters have a “win now” attitude. they are short-sighted. losing 12-16 games, while developing a future star that can potentially carry a team for years doesn’t seem worthwhile.
more or less, i’m calling team anderson delusional. winning 3 or 4 games with DA isn’t worth not developing a 1st round QB who had 70+ tds in his last 2 years of college against 13 or so ints.
the kid plays smart, safe ball and needs game experience to translate that into game-winning production.
enjoy your 4 win season, team anderson. this season and for seasons to come…
this is all really funny…not the losing, but you guys are funny to me.
Wow some of you folks are not very smart. “Team Anderson”… does that mean that you are no longer rooting for the Browns until the dreamboat from Dublin (not Cleveland) gets back on the field –
I’m with mikey – this is funny stuff.
I’m one for Team McCoy!!!
clearly referring to the quinn v anderson debate and not calling the browns “team anderson.” i love it when people call others “not very smart” and then proceed to make a dumb comment or fail to understand the comment they are replying to…
i’m for the browns getting better and establishing future success. even if it means sacrificing the 2 – 3 wins DA’s experience will help deliver this season…
MrCleveland might be the dumbest poster I’ve ever seen on this website…and he clearly went to Notre Dame…or really hearts Myoplex. You Brady apologists act as if we will never find out what he has. It is some irrevocable tragedy. He will get his chance. Not with the Browns. He will get his chance somewhere else (if anyone is stupid enough to sign him as a second QB and their starter gets injured). He was mediocre in college. Has the arm strength of an AVERAGE starting QB.
Team Brady is the second dumbest. What is there to develop? The word ‘develop,’ as you must be aware, carries the crucial, yet oft ignored, implication of potential. Brady Quinn has none of this. It is trite and tiresome at this point to have to endure the nauseating comments of from Brady fans. You know, if he doesn’t start he will still have just as many pictures pop up in his Google Images query…relax.
One final time: You can’t develop arm strength. This kid produces more lame ducks than I did with my 8-bit Nintendo.
Safe, smart ball = …can anyone guess…anyone?…anyone?…Brady?…Bueller?…anyone?
LOSSES.
So, can we trade Quinn now?
We need to trade him before we get a win. Neither DA nor BQ are going to be our QB in the future.
DA makes too many mistakes, and BQ will never be able to do well on a short leash undeer Mangini.
So let’s trade BQ and get someone else’s Lineman for him, and then start over again next season.
NOBODY WANTS BRADY QUINN FOR ANYTHING BUT A THIRD ROUNDER!!! Who are you people? There is NO MARKET for Brady Quinn.
God.
At least our division sucks…there is some consolation in that.
So… after seeing what McDaniels is doing in Denver after kicking his Pro-Bowl QB out of town and alienating his Pro-Bowl receiver.. Only to completely revamp that defense and get his alienated receiver giving him HUGS after the game and in the press conference. Seeing these professional athletes buying into a kid who is younger than some on the team makes me scratch my head.. first thing that comes to mind is 1. Why didn’t we hire him. 2. Would Braylon EVER hug Mangini after a win? 3. How come we hire the apples from Belichick’s tree that fall so so so far away? 4. Would McDaniels in Cleveland be the same story as Mangini in Cleveland and vice versa?
IDK it just seems like every year there are standout rookies (Chris Johnson M. Ryan, J. Flacco, M. Sanchez, J. Knox, K. Moreno, L. Murphy, J. Stewart) I just think any of those players on our team would either be inactive week in and week out or just not be impact players…. I don’t know where I’m going with all of this.. Just something I notice. Do these trends stem from bad ownership? I don’t know what to make of all of this.
You guys look at things with blinders on. Heiden has played every game this season. the browns have had 2 TE sets for most the season. Massaquoi has played every game. He has been out there every game, maybe not to the extent that he has been, but its because Brady never threw it to WRs. Its ridiculous to try to keep saying DA sucks, because obviously he’s a heckavalot better then Quinn. They are about a year apart in age. Who’s to say DA wont get better? He already has. 1 bad pass, that took away what, 3 points? if you try to say that lost the game then BS. there were many chances in this game to break it open, and many of them werent on DAs shoulders.
When you talk about playcalling, I feel that falls on Daboll, not Mangini. A rookie OC went conservative and lost. But who knows maybe part of it was DA not wanting to throw a risky pass that could get him pulled from being the starter. How about you guys try to back up your DA hatred with something worthwhile. ‘Stats’ are what seperates good QBs form bad ones. Quinn did not produce anything when he was on the field. He hasn’t shown any promise this year at all. Why would you want a dink and dunk QB? when qbs like palmer, like manning, like other manning, etc etc, were rookies they were at least showing promise and trying to make plays downfield. If you never try, your never going to learn.
Also, since when is being 10-5 in a season as a starter being a loser, btw? so this week we didnt win, we were at least in position to unlike when Quinn was QB.
Team Brady-
What do you see in Quinn that makes you think he is going to EVER develop into a half decent quarterback? In the games he has played thus far, he hasn’t moved the chains, hasn’t been exceedingly accurate, looks tentative and worried in the pocket, and can’t make a big play to save his life. The team’s offense has looked amateurish when he was under center thus far. Nothing about that screams perennially starting quarterback, let alone, anything remotely approaching a future star.
Just because Quinn was a star in college and a 1st rounder doesn’t mean that he should be the default starting quarterback over DA. Having a college pedigree doesn’t translate into NFL success. JaMarcus Russell, Matt Leinart and Vince Young all were faaaaaaar more successful in college than Quinn was and none of them can sniff the field. (In fact, Russell defeated Quinn in the Sugar Bowl in 2006 and was drafted higher than him in the draft.) Do you think Arizona fans are complaining that Leinart hasn’t been given proper time to develop on the field when a washed-up Kurt Warner is taking the Cards to the Super Bowl? Why can’t we just call him a bust and move on.
while i agree with you DocZeus, Russel is the starter down in OAK, and they cut Garcia to show that. Stilll, he has shown ability to take over a game and give his team the chances to win, unlike Quinn has.
@ Please Stop – there’s a thing called sarcasm that people sometimes use on the internet. It’s pretty obvious and though we have a font for that the font isn’t always used (and isn’t always needed). No need to call names and demean people.
Anyone notice Jim Brown on the sidelines before the game? I did not know he was in such bad shape. Dude can barely walk. The game has finally caught up with him.
“Its ridiculous to try to keep saying DA sucks, because obviously he’s a heckavalot better then Quinn”
You know Bobby, there’s a good chance that both parts of the above statement are correct at the same time.
“IDK it just seems like every year there are standout rookies (Chris Johnson M. Ryan, J. Flacco, M. Sanchez, J. Knox, K. Moreno, L. Murphy, J. Stewart)”
Glorious, did you see Sanchez’s line from yesterday. O TD, 3 INT, 27 passer rating. Let’s hold off a bit on this one shall we.
Some thoughts I have:
Re: the end-of-regulation call – I was mad about it at the time (sitting in the third row of the so-called-Dawg-Pound), but having some time to digest, here’s my take. If you go for the FG and miss, Cincy gets the ball at their 47 with 15 seconds and two time outs, which is enough time to get 20 yards and call time out, especially against our secondary. If you go for a pass and don’t pick anything up, Cincy is at their own 40, which isn’t much further back. The wind was blowing at Cincy’s back in the 4th quarter, as well. Along that last line, that’s why Mangini didn’t try the FG: 1) he doesn’t have much of a feel for Billy Cundiff, and 2) even I noticed at the end of halftime when Cundiff was warming up that he was barely getting it over the bar from 50 into that wind. I have little faith he would have made it from 57. With the aid of hindsight, the punt was the right play there.
I think I should revise my QB Conspiracy Theory: Mangini’s plan was to get the fans so immersed in A STUPID QB DEBATE that they miss the rest of what’s going on. Someone please tell me: which of these two QBs will be on the roster in 2011? (cue Jeopardy theme song) ??? ???
I was pro-Quinn, for the reason ONLY that we already know what we have in DA (and we saw it in spades on Sunday): can move the ball, takes shots down the field, good for one boneheaded throw about every quarter or two. That’s exactly what we got. I felt at the time of the switch that it was the short-sighted play because there’s nothing new to learn about DA, and Quinn has only played in seven games thus far in his career. That’s not to say that Quinn is going to develop into a perennial Pro-Bowler, but it would be nice to at least know what he will develop into. That’s obviously out the window now, and even I can admit that DA moved the team better than Quinn has. That doesn’t change, however, the initial misgivings I have about the switch this early into a season that is quite obviously not going to result in the playoffs.
All of this having been said, I sincerely hope that this game does at least two things: 1) quiets the “we must fire Mangini now!” crowd. Look, I don’t like him anymore than most of you do as a person, but three games does not a season/career make. It’s obvious that the Browns took strides this week. You have to crawl before you can walk. Or, did you all expect that the Lions with a new coach would go 10-6 this year? 2) quiets this notion that the players have quit on the coach/each other. Being at the stadium and watching BOTH units celebrate after good plays tells me that these guys aren’t going through the motions, and to insinuate that they’ve quit on their coach is an unfair assessment. They played harder yesterday than almost 90% of the games last season when they were “playing for Romeo”.
obviously, the mental mistakes at the end of the game were due to the brownies looking ahead to their big game with buffalo in week 5.
Denny, I’ll here the criticism on unnecessary language in the post…but which one of those two was being sarcastic?
@40 – like tbs – very funny
AMEN DP DIESEL!!
BTW where is Isis with his 2nd round draft pick line? Massaquoi anyone?
I’m so sick of the stupid DA v. BQ argument. Could anything be more pointless?
Craig, I’d like to address a handful of related lines from your entry:
“The Browns “faithful” only have so much faith and you can’t blame them.”
“The Bengals rip off three plays in a row of 20+ and all the old feelings come right back to the top for Browns fans.”
“Here is where the Bengals score a game winner and all that “progress” will be for nothing.”
“And the Bengals of course won the toss and will receive. Browns fans everywhere are shuddering in fear.”
“Browns fan panic is at an all-time high.”
“Was anyone really surprised when Carson Palmer scrambled for about 14 yards on 3rd and 10?”
I do, in fact, blame them/us (Browns fans). The way Craig wrote those 6 lines was the way Browns Stadium felt coming through the TV: Fearful and resigned to defeat. Incredible.
You know that whole “changing the loser mentality” thing? Well it includes the fans. If the Browns are getting blown out, then I understand having that feeling of impending doom. But when your team has a chance to win a game, especially THIS team, make some noise and get behind them. That place should have been rocking! Instead it sounded like a church during funeral service. Should we stop calling ourselves great football fans? Because if that’s the approach people take to a winnable game, then we deserve the loss.
@DP Diesel – You were there, tell me I’m wrong.
@34
“Team Brady-
What do you see in Quinn that makes you think he is going to EVER develop into a half decent quarterback? ”
not a whole lot. 5 whole games over 3 seasons with two different sets of coaches and coordinators without so much as a full preseason to develop any chemistry has left me with very little to evaluate him on.
thus is my point.
I actually thought the fans were very passionate throughout. They booed when the offensed sucked early; they cheerled like madmen when the offense got it going and the defense fed off of it.
That last drive, there was definitely some panic. But, I myself felt like the defense would have a chance to stop them, as they held the Bengals to something like only 11 yards in the second half (and as Isis always says, they never make adjustments, so go figure!). The fourth down play, the crowd was pretty fired up. It was only after the TD pass that the air came out of the balloon. I never got the sense of impending doom. Rather, I got the sense that the crowd was finally just happy to have a reason to stick around and cheer. And then the blocked PAT brought everyone back, as the Browns had a legitimate chance to go down and win the game, which wasn’t unreasonable given that they’d moved the ball pretty well for three quarters.
There was definitely a different feeling during the OT, but it was more a tension of a “this play might end the game” on every snap… for both teams.
@DP Diesel:
Amazing post.