While We’re Waiting… Browns Moral Victories, Kevin Garnett’s Knee, and Goodbye 2009 Tribe
October 5, 2009Grinding to a Halt: A Sad Season Ends in a Sweep
October 5, 2009
AP / Tony Dejak
Let’s just talk about the “controversy” first to get it out of the way. Yesterday’s comments erupted into a bunch more bickering about the quarterbacks on this team. I have to be honest when I tell you that I don’t know why you guys do it. I love to argue as much as anyone in the world, probably. I just don’t understand where arguments over these two quarterbacks emerge from. It seems like arguing over which boy band had better hit singles in the 90’s, N’Sync or Backstreet. I would rather find a new band to listen to honestly. The future of this team is probably in the hands of a player to be named later. People who proclaim Brady Quinn deserves a shot need to realize that he was given every opportunity to win the job that neither player could seemingly take away from the other in training camp. People who hate Derek Anderson need to recognize the fact that for all his shortcomings over a long season, the dude didn’t play half bad yesterday. Still, if any of you feel after a single game that DA can again be considered the “answer,” you are crazy.
And let’s expound on DA’s day a little bit. Anderson helped the Browns move the ball. He was 26/48 for 269 yards with a TD and an INT. His rating for yesterday was 68.8. His throws to Mohamed Massoquai were great. Still, how closely were you guys watching his performance? To me it seemed like DA stared down receivers all day long. Was I the only one who noticed that? What happened to the pump fake machine that we saw in the pre-season when DA had the ball? In basketball, they always told us you have to “fake the pass to make the pass.” I would like to give DA an audio book with just that phrase over and over so he can listen to it while he sleeps. Also, it shouldn’t go unnoticed that when the Browns really needed to find a way to score to put the game away, DA and company couldn’t do it.
Mohamed Massoquai. After all the Browns receivers have come and gone from the draft (Paul Hubbard, Syndric Steptoe, Travis Wilson, Andre Davis, Quincy Morgan, and potentially even Brian Robiskie,) is it finally possible that the Browns got one right? Massaquoi caught 8 balls for 148 yards and nearly had a score on an athletic dive and catch toward the pylon of the end zone. If there is something that Browns fans can actually feel good about today it is the emergence of Massoquai. Still, it is just one game. He needs to continue to be a threat week in and week out as the season continues along.
152 yards from scrimmage. That is what Jerome Harrison produced yesterday for the Browns. He also fumbled a ball, but did you see him secure that thing the rest of the game after fumbling? 121 yards on 29 carries on the ground and 31 yards from 5 catches in the air. Harrison also had a long run of 21 for the Browns. This is all the stuff that we ever dreamed of having in Jerome Harrison. I don’t know that we really want to have to rely on any back as much as we had to rely on Harrison yesterday with Jamal Lewis out again. The positive news is that you have to feel intrigued by the prospect of having Jamal Lewis and Jerome Harrison as a true running back tag team. And I know Chris Jennings only ran once for 8 yards, but he showed that whirling dervish running style that seemed so fun and effective in the pre-season.
The best performers of the day were the defensive linemen. Corey Williams had a sack, but we all know who the player of the game was. Big Shaun Rogers was a monster. Rogers had a blocked field goal, a blocked extra point and also provided a big-time legal hit on Carson Palmer that resulted in the Browns getting off the field on third down. They gave up too many rushing yards again, but overall they did a good job against Cincinnati’s offensive line.
And the rest of the high points? Josh Cribbs was another monster with a 58 yard kickoff return and a 50 yard punt return. Brandon McDonald seemed to respond to his benching. A couple times he seemed to be on the winning end of a good play in coverage. Mike Furrey broke up a pass playing safety. Brodney Pool had an interception and nearly gobbled up another one. Steve Heiden showed why Browns fans love him so much as he caught 5 passes for 33 yards and a touchdown. D’Qwell Jackson disrupted passing lanes and was all over the field with his 14 tackles yesterday.
Anyway, in the end the Browns lose the game in heart-breaking fashion. They couldn’t find a way to score a touchdown to expand on their three point lead. They played four full quarters and an overtime of competitive football, to be sure. Still, they sit at the bottom of the league at 0-4. They have to continue to improve on the offense. The game of football is complicated. There are no easy answers. Try and remember that when commenting. Also keep in mind that it doesn’t hurt to be nice to each other. At the end of the day, we all want the exact same things regardless of who is coaching or playing quarterback.
49 Comments
Massoquai needs to be the number 1 receiver. he runs good routes, has good hands, and can make the big plays this team was lacking in weeks 1-3. braylon can’t get the job done, he proves this time and time again. keep him in the slot and split out massoquai.
p.s. where was robo?
p.p.s. looked like the DA from the giants game last year.
The INT and the fumble were both killers, but you do have to like the positives we can take out of this game. Cincinnati is a (surprisingly) solid team, and the Browns hung with them for almost 5 quarters. I need to see them do it again next week against the Bills, but there’s something to build on (finally).
The scary thing about our schedule this year is that it’s so front-loaded, we could be 2-11 by week fourteen and finish 5-11 on the year.
Big deal about Jackson’s tackles. Most of them were at least 4 yards from the line of scrimmage. Has he ever had a tackle for loss? I can’t remember one this season.
After yesterday’s game, I think there’s a better chance I’m in a Browns uniform next year than Braylon.
The Backstreet Boys definitely had the best singles hands down.
@Boom I normally agree with you on Jackson, but yesterday I saw a guy being really active in the passing lanes and doing a pretty good job of reading Carson Palmer’s eyes. Andra Davis proved that gaudy tackle numbers aren’t always what they seem to be. Then again Davis was playing the other MLB position. I like D’Qwell and I still think he has the ability to improve at this stage in his career.
The Browns played an overall good game yesterday against the Bengals. I am a Bengal fan and I knew this game was going to be tough for the Bengals. Cribbs is a difference maker on special teams. The Bengals have finally realized that special teams play on punts is one of the biggest keys to a winning formula. Even though it didn’t prove to be as true yesterday, the effectiveness of returner, Quan Cosby, and punter, Kevin Huber, have made the difference in the game of field position for the Bengals in the first three games. With Cribbs returning like he does, he changes game plans for your opponents. Also, looking from the outside in, the Browns need to stick with Alexander at quarterback. He, at least, gives you some consistency there when Quinn does not. Massoquai is a good, young receiver, but the Bengals were doubling up Braylon Edwards all day leaving single coverage on Massoquai. Still, a nice performance from him. Shaun Rodgers is a force in the middle when he wants to be. But the inneffectives of the Bengals this year in the kicking game has shown up in each outing this year. Between bad snaps, poor holds and Shane Graham’s (our franchise player) poor kicks, it’s kept all of our games too close. The blocked extra point yesterday just cleared the offensive lineman’s helmets. The Browns defense looked tough yesterday too. After the Bengals drive to open the game, the Bengals had trouble moving the ball till later in the game. Not like Palmer and the offense to be stopped like that. Plus it kept our defense on the field way too much. Honestly, coming from an outsider, I don’t know if Mangini is your answer or not, but your team is alot more physical than your record indicates. The AFC North is a physical division, maybe the most physical. You need to get rid of Quinn, leaving Anderson as your only true starting qb the rest of the season (ending the “controversy”) and work towards getting you a qb in the draft or free agency next year. It would be nice to see the battle of Ohio to be like the days of Ken Anderson vs Brian Sipe or Boomer Esiason vs Bernie Kosar again.
For all the bright spots and improved play, it still came down to Derek Anderson not winning the game, not making a play, not getting it done when he had the chance. He doesn’t pick anyone up, he always needs someone to pick him up. He’s a loser, but I guess we’re stuck with him.
I wasn’t very impressed with Rey Mauaulaboogalu.
Did we actually have a 36th-overall-pick-in-the-draft sighting yesterday covering a kick???? Wow, that pick is really starting to pay off.
(Sorry to be so crabby, but losing is losing. No pat on the head for coming close.)
Mangini’s three year reputation in NY was one who builds a gameplan and veers not one iota from it on Sundays, typically resulting in a good first half and badly out executed/out-strategized second half due to lack of halftime/in-game coaching adjustments.
Let’s track this week to week, shall we? Mangini’s first half versus second half coaching grade and strategic adjustments:
Week #1 vs. Vikings: Total defensive collapse in second half as Vikings adjust blocking schemes.
Week #2 vs. Broncos: Horrific vanilla offensive gameplan, defense collapses in second half as Broncos make blitz adjustments.
Game #3 vs. Ravens: Was there even a gameplan? Ravens adjusted
out of the locker-room showers. Just who is Brian Daboll? A rookie OC
grooming a rookie QB? HORRIFIC gameplanning on both offense and defense
Game #4 vs. Bengals: Kudos to Defensive Coordinator Rob Ryan. After a rugged Q1, the defensive effort was outstanding. Clearly the adjustments WERE made defensively, players were positioned well, and for the most part tackled well. Big Kudos to Rob Ryan for the passion and emotion that he displayed with did nothing but support and motivate the effort from his troops. Couldn’t ask for anything more from the defense yesterday, they held the Bengals down time after time-giving the Browns offense ample opportunities.
Brian Daboll-what words can be said here? Why was a ROOKE OC hired to develop young QB’s? The offensive game plan versus the Bengals was beyond vanilla, it was high schoolish. Regardless of who plays QB, the offensive game-calling continues to be, rather offensive. At what point will this be addressed by the team, and recognized as an (if not THE) issue by the fans?
Overall-very competitive effort, played with intensity and passion not yet seen. Yes it was the Bengals, but yes it was good to see.
MrCleveland, are you sure you didn’t mean to type MrSouthBend?
I was always one of those people saying give Quinn a chance to develop. I still think that he was handled horribly, but I don’t care anymore. DA has major weaknesses, but I’m going to be rooting for him big time because I do not want the Browns drafting a QB with their high #1 draft pick this season.
There was a lot to like about the Browns’ effort yesterday. Certainly didn’t seem like a team that had quit on themselves or the coach as we suspected after the Baltimore game. I actually think the game up in Buffalo is winnable if the Browns play with the same amount of effort and intensity. If they play well again next week, maybe it’s a sign that Mangini is getting through to these guys.
@Isis – I thought Lerner was the issue with this team? Any news on his impending forced sale of the Browns? Did the league have that meeting yet?
@9
Hey, Brady almost single-handedly had the mighty Matt Leinhart/Reggie Bush No. 1 Trojans BEATEN three years ago this month until USC pulled that 4th-and-long miracle out of their wazoo and then almost lost a fumble and then cheated to get in the end zone.
Not that I obsess about it or anything.
I’d like to propose that we spell Massaquoi’s name right. He earned it yesterday.
I will say this about the game on Sunday: for the first time in a long time, I had fun watching the Browns. And you know what? I’ll take that.
MrCleaveland:
With regard to Rey Maualuga, he had one tackle in limited action yesterday due to a sprained MCL that he suffered in a play the week before against the Steelers. His stats through the first three games are 19 tackles with 1 sack and 2 forced fumbles. Trust me when I say, he’s a hitter. And he’s going to get better and better with time. I’m just glad the Browns and everybody else passed on him in the draft so we could get him.
I know this may seem a little overkill, but…
DA > BQ It’s nothing to argue about. BQ will never be a good QB. He does not deserve any more playing time. Play the best player you have. This sounds too logical, I know.
That said (I posted this a bit ago, but I offer some additional notes), I will venture to say that DA could be an NFL QB…and a good one. People say neither BQ nor DA is the answer. DA could be. This may be irresponsible (this is a qualifier so need to jump down my throat – that didn’t sound right), but Favre throws lot of picks too. Golden Sanchez struggles as well. Phillip Rivers is large and dim but has a cannon arm but struggled early with mistakes.
But my favorite example to consider is Jay Cutler. Do all of you who think that DA can’t be a solid NFL starter, an answer if you will, think Jay Cutler doesn’t have that potential? They are the same age. DA has had less games to play. DA looks about as good as Cutler did through 1.5 games. Both are fringe Pro-Bowl potentials with rocket arms and a gun-slinging mentality who can shed tacklers and score occasionally with their legs. I say both can be successful NFL starters. They may lack a little bit in leadership ability en c’est moment…
…but let’s consider something. Look at what each QB needs to develop. BQ – arm strength, the ability to make 3 more NFL throws, confidence in going down field. DA – decision-making ability, leadership skills, knowing when to throw the ball away. The skills DA needs? You CAN develop those. You CANNOT develop the skills Brady lacks. You can’t. Give DA time. He had one great season, and one subpar season in which his team LED THE LEAGUE in DROPS. Does it mean nothing to people that every NFL analyst on ESPN, especially former QBs like Trent Dilfer who have watched the guy play a ton and have been around the NFL quarterback scene forever, stated that DA should get the nod but that Brady would for non-football reasons?
The players will respond to him like they did two years ago. They won’t respond to Brady. Evidence: Braylon’s excessive pointing at DA in the preseason when he would catch a pass as if to say, ‘you are my guy!’; zero false starts yesterday; the fact that our wideouts don’t have to continually run three 15 yard wind-sprints without being seen by the only person that matters (the other 75k in the stadium see them) and then go sit down on the bench. Being able to be involve more than the TE, slot receiver, and RB in the offense will certainly allow DA to ‘pick guys up,’ MrCleveland.
If you think we should quit on DA, then you must think the Bears should quit on Cutler. You must think that neither can be a viable option at QB in this league.
Thoughts?
I think AMC has an excellent point – the last thing the Browns need is to end up taking a QB next season with their (the draft’s) #1 pick. Winning a couple of games and getting away from the #1 slot would be huge for the Browns IMO.
Me want Eric Berry at number 3 or 4!
@ TBrown – Absolutely. Offensive TDs are awesome!
MrCleveland, are you being sarcastic? I mean, Brady never beat a single top 20 team in four years, right? You would know better than I would. This is just memory. Like 0-14, yes?
Snaps to AMC/Denny.
I hope we’re at least 1 draft away from picking up a QB. The last thing in the world we need is to take a QB in the first round and begin yet anther controversy in Cleveland. Berry would be great, but I’d prefer some kind of offensive playmaker early on; that side of the ball needs the most help.
The arm-strength fallacy:
Derek Anderson = Mike Phipps = Paul McDonald
Brady Quinn = Brian Sipe = Bernie Kosar
MrCleveland, here’s my take…
Everyone in the league thinks he has a weak arm. When he threw that pick at Baltimore, the you could almost see the DB shaking with laughter as Braylon faked the deep route, because he knew BQ would never consider making that throw. And he promptly stepped right in front of the truncated route.
If I’m going to see an interception, let be downfield, double-coverage, even a forced end zone play to try and get your chemistry with Bray going…but please, not because you can’t throw the deep route.
Really weird transitive property argument though. I can’t wait to see BQ sounding drunk while doing preseason color-commentary a decade from now. The potential there is sooo exciting…though he will probably never look as disheveled as Bernie on TV.
MrC – there is a fault to your logic – The latter two you mentioned after BQ had no problem getting the ball down the field. The Kardiac Kids would have never picked that name up if they couldn’t accomplish that.
I think with the shape of the offensive line it might actually be a good time to draft a quarterback if the right one is available. I wouldn’t argue if the right running back prospect showed up wherever the Browns are drafting.
In order of importance, I guess I would put them like this…
QB, LB, RB
The only way they should take a defensive player is if it is the kind of guy who can be a Polamalu or Ray Lewis type difference maker. Still, the draft is so far off, I might change my mind three times between now and then.
So, uh, about the other positions on the team, I loved that Jerome Harrison exploded yesterday. I like Jamal, but I think he’d be best as a third-down, Jerome Bettis type back at this point. After yesterday, I think Jerome holds down the starting job for the duration.
I am also a little frustrated with the Robiskie thing; I’d love to see what the guy can do on game day. I am, of course, biased because of my affinity for Ohio State football, but it’s hard to believe he can’t get a couple of trips onto the field at his home position (instead of just on special teams, where he looked to have a good game).
Also, did anyone else notice that Wimbley had another sack? He’s not destroying people the way he did his rookie season, but he’s definitely improving as a pass-rusher. Maybe Rob Ryan’s willingness to move him around is beginning to pay off.
@22
Rob, you argue against your own point.
If you want to see downfield interceptions thrown into double coverage in the end zone, DA’s your man!
By your criteria, Vinny Testaverde was a better QB than Bernie.
I think at this point we’re going to need a top flight RB, and I don’t like any of the RB’s who would likely be named in the first round so I agree with Denny that Eric Berry or Taylor Mays would be the best for us in the upcoming draft
Why can’t DA be a starting QB? Will no one consider the Cutler/Anderson hypothesis?
His physical gifts locate him in the top ten in my mind. He just needs to put it together mentally. I know that’s a big IF, but he has had only 1.5 seasons to do that. Aren’t we tired of drafting QBs in the first round?
Maybe if Brady eased off of the weightlifting he could actually throw the ball with some distance.
@27 I’m actually willing to wait out a top-flight RB, unless we can get ahold of a serious bruiser in the young Jamal Luis mold. Otherwise, we might rather get a tight end, a quality right tackle (please? anyone?), or another downfield threat (Braylon won’t be here that much longer). Hey, maybe we’ll pick up Crabtree in the second round? Think he’ll be humbled enough at having lost tens of millions of dollars that he sees the light and becomes a team player?
I still think we play out the next two years with DA under center and worry about a quarterback after we’ve built up the team a little bit. Unless we can get Tebow in the 2nd round and play him as a tight end or 3rd down back as well.
MrCleveland, do you like logical inconsistency? Did I say that I ‘wanted’ those things? Eh, no. I did, however, suggest that it is the lesser of two evils. And as much as I’m tired of the present QB debate, I’m getting even more weary of your attempts to summon the spirits of our past mediocre field generals. And thank you to Chris M for pointing out that putting an ‘=’ between names does not, in reality, render those entities comparable.
Sheesh. Follow the lead and let’s together enjoy this rediscovered excitement re: Browns football. We competed with a good team. We got into ‘scoring position’ on 5 occasions. DA played well enough. Proved Mangini made the right call in going back. And if a couple fans have to change their desktop wallpapers in the process, so be it.
@Rob – There is a reason Cutler was a 1st round pick and DA was a 7th round pick. Jeff George had a strong arm also.
@31
Okay, last one and then I’ll drop it and try to get some work done today.
I’m not happy with the so-called “lesser of two evils” and I’m not impressed by “getting into scoring position.” Anderson is a loser.
I mean, I’ll hear that argument. I know a strong arm isn’t everything you need. But Cutler hasn’t exactly wowed consistently. Still, no one dismisses his potential. He makes mistakes downfield all the time. But people laud his play-making ability. DA has that. Putting their origins aside, their NFL careers share a number of striking similarities, but people always put stock in Cutler because of his position in the draft. But as we know, this is almost always short-sighted. A different Brady, a much better Brady, was a 6th-round pick.
I know this is a bit out there, but why can’t we, as a city, just show DA some confidence and support instead of whining and pining for Quinn?
Touche, MrCleaveland. Touche. Anderson is a loser. I never though of it that way. I don’t like to become stupid when talking about sports. But I hope that as the self-proclaimed ‘MrCleaveland’ you support the team and the city and don’t just wallow, trying to bring everyone down to hold on to the apple of your eye.
More importantly, I hope that the spelling anomaly results from Cle*A*veland being your last name, or that the ‘work’ that you hope to accomplish is that of a butcher. Otherwise, I’m not sure why I indulged this tete-a-tete avec toi.
@36
For God’s sake, Rob, do I insult you? No.
BTW, it’s CleAveland as a tribute to Moses.
Needs less Frenchy talk!
Let us not forget, fellow Browns fans, that the combined record of our 4 opponents thus far is 14-2 . . . On to Buffalo!
I was just trying to think about my draft-day wish list, and really I would take just about any position. We need: QB, RB, RG, RT, TE, WR, LB, CB, and possibly a safety. In other words, I just hope the Browns take the best player on the board with their first round pick.
Rob, DA hasn’t exactly only started 1.5 games. He played as a backup for a season here, a full season as a starter almost, much of a season as a starter, and 1.5 games this season, along with all the preseason games. You posit that he can be quality if his decision-making skills improve. Now, since his first couple games waaaay back in 2006, have you seen any improvement at all in his decision-making? Anything? I still see him lock on receivers, make terrible throws (and picks) into double and triple coverage, and throw short of a first down on 3rd down sometimes. Has he improved on his problem areas at all since he first started for this team? And, if he hasn’t (which I don’t think he has) then why on earth do you think he WILL improve in the future if multiple years isn’t enough time?
There’s always the possibility of someone improving in the future, but if he hasn’t showed any signs of it for years why should he start? Your blind faith in his ability to improve his decision-making is no different than people putting blind faith in Quinn. I have no faith that DA’s decisions and football IQ can be improved to the level of a top-half NFL QB, so I say he’s not the answer.
Re: The draft
This team isn’t 1 or 2 players away from the playoffs. That means you take the absolute best player available, regardless of position, regardless of what side of the ball he plays on. Drafting for need is what got us into this situation in the first place. Get an impact player!
Looking at the Top 10 of the draft as projected today by Kiper or Scouts Inc there is an abundance of Defensive players there… so, you’re probably looking at defense.
Im not sure why this town and the media is treating this as a win. I havent read anything that calls Mangini out for his gutless calls in the 4th quarter, settling for FG’s and punts. Cinci went for the win on 4th and 10. We played not to lose in the 4th quarter. This is a winless team. Show some backbone. Go for it!
Rob has become Isis on the issue of BQ v. DA.
Anyway, while I have stopped investing emotionally in the Browns on Sunday, it was nice to see them look like a real pro football team.
DA gives us exactly what we all knew/should have known he would and MoMas played out of his mind. It made me happy to at least feel like we fielded a team.
As of right now, I am not sure why people are debating the BQ vs DA until we see another full week of DA. Oh I wish we could just place our “luck” (because that is what we need) in with one QB, but I think another week will at least show us if DA will look like 07 DA or last year DA.
I just love the fact that Craig is focusing on the postives of yesterday and not the negatives because this was the first time all year we had enough posiives to think about. I actually felt good for a chance and think we have a shot to win a few games unlike the first 3 weeks. Heiden is the man but I think DA missed Winslow yesterday.
Browns win in Buffalo sunday. Book it.
@14; FINALLY! It was a fun game to watch, not a waste of 3 hours. And deserved or not, it gives us hope. I just wish we could try a little optimism versus being doom and gloom constantly.
@44; also ditto. Too early for debate, and also too early for the hate. And go Brownies!
Craig – Thanks for the even-handed summary and noble attempt at diplomacy in the last paragraph. It’s endlessly amazing what we human beings find to snipe at each other about! Go Browns.
I hope DA becomes Mr. Consistent…I can’t handle a rollercoaster season again…
I know its one game so far this season, and I know a lot of people dont like DAs line of work thus far, but I think DA is a good QB still in this league. He’s not great, He’s not a perennial Pro Bowler, but he does enough to allow the browns to be in position for a W. If work on his pump fakes, and not just staring guys down he could be even better. He already is showing hes not going to make the force pass, and he can check down. The biggest thing that DA does for the offense though is his ability to generally get the ball out of his hands quickly. That puts less pressure on the OL, and also makes the D stay off our WRs more and allows our running game more holes. Let’s see how he handles it the rest of this year, but I wouldn’t jump out and say they need a QB in round one this year.
Speaking of the rest of our offense though, they seemed to really pick it up in the 2nd quarter and throughout the second half of the game. The OL looked a lot better, and Harrison was good except for his fumble. I think he could excel as a starter and let Lewis spell some carries for him. Harrison and Davis looks rather promising moving on in the future. Massaquoi looks like he is way ahead of schedule in becoming a #1 guy, but we shouldn’t push it. I hope Robiskie will get on the field to see if he can contribute next year and or beyond. If not, then we still need to find a #2 guy heading into next year, because Edwards looks like he’s moving out (though hopefully we will either franchise him, or place a RFA tender so if he does get his wish to leave the browns get something in return).
Our defense looked pretty good throughout the game, but we are still an impact guy away form being a top tier D. Yes, Rogers is one, but we need a LB, or S, or CB that can come up with a big play every now and then. The DL did a good job for the most part, but really we needed more pressure on Palmer. The Bengals OL isnt a very strong unit, and we didn’t get a good pass rush for most the game. That does make me have more faith in the secondary though since they caused a lot incomplete passes, and had generally good coverage for the majority of the game. Winning TOP will be key for this defense to succeed this year.