The One Where a WR is a DB and an OL is a TE
October 29, 2009About Fox Sports Ohio and High Definition
October 29, 2009
Cliff Lee is an absolute stud.
Not that Indians fans needed any reminder of that, but the performance he put on last night in game one of the World Series, was pure domination of a lineup that is probably the best 1-9 the league has seen since the mid-90’s.
Clifton Phifer Lee pitched a complete game, six hitter, allowing zero earned runs (1 unearned) on six hits, walking nobody and striking out 10. Consider this – Cliff did all of his damage against a lineup that features:
- seven players with 22 home runs or more
- seven players with 81 RBI’s or more (Derek Jeter had 66, but hit .334)
- eight players had a batting average of .274 or higher (Nick Swisher hit .249, but had 29 homers and 82 RBI’s)
The Yankees had the crowd, the stars, and their ace (CC Sabathia) on their side. Cliff just laughed it all off. He busted the Bronx Bombers inside all night, while painting the outside corners to boot. The 3-4-5 hitters – Mark Teixiera, Alex Rodriguez, and Jorge Posada – were a combined 1-12 with seven strike outs. Not only was he incredible with his arm, but he was not too shabby with the glove either. In classic Cliff fashion, after the game, he told the media: “To be honest I really never have been nervous in the big leagues. This is what I wanted to do my whole life.”
Tribe fans have seen this type of performance before over the last two years. But nationally, he is now getting the praise he richly deserves. As good as he was last night, you know Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr. was laughing out loud. Why would he be laughing?
Because he knows he absolutely ROOKED Indians GM Mark Shapiro to get the arm that may bring his organization a second straight World Series title.
That is right. Its been only a few months, but I am officially ruling this trade a TKO in the 1st round by the Amaro on Shapiro. Its been widely reported that the Indians held out for 18-year old right-hander Jason Knapp to finalize the deal. Even though Knapp’s ERA (4.18) and won loss record (2-7) were far from impressive, his power arm (123 K’s in 97 innings) was what made him one of Baseball America’s top 50 prospects. What the Indians doctor’s didn’t know (or failed to see) was Knapp’s shoulder problem. He was shut down before the end of the season and had to have shoulder surgery.
The other three prospects who came over in the trade were less than impressive. Catcher Lou Marson is merely holding the place for #1 prospect Carlos Santana until he is ready. At best, Marson will be the Indians backup catcher long term. Carlos Carrasco, a 22-year old one-time top Phillies prospect, hopes that a change of scenery will do him good. The right-handed starter showed promise with Columbus after the trade, going 5-1 with a 3.19 ERA. But when he got the chance to show he belonged in the majors, he was a disaster. In five starts, he pitched just 22.1 innings, giving up 22 earned runs, 40 hits, and 11 walks while looking completely over matched. Jason Donald, a SS/2B was injured the majority of his time in Columbus, but at best, looks like a Jamey Carroll replacement.
That is what we got for a former Cy Young award winner who in four postseason starts is now 3-0 with a 0.54 ERA and an 0.69 WHIP. Don’t forget his 30/3 strikeout to walk ratio.
Have I mentioned that the Indians failed to receive any of the Phillies top three prospects – OF Dominic Brown (#17 on Baseball America’s list), OF Michael Taylor (#23), and RHP Kyle Drabek (#24) – for Lee?
Sorry to go all doom and gloom on you and I know trades like this shouldn’t be graded this early, but I can’t help but get that sinking feeling that Shapiro was rooked this time around.
22 Comments
I really really hated seeing the highlights of this pitching matchup last night but there is about 1.3% of me that will be slightly happy that either Lee or CC will get their ring. Of course I WISH that ring would have come with the Tribe but both players gave us a lot of great games and deserve a championship.
As far as the trade it is really hard to argue your point TD but ultimately it’s a waiting game and we’ll know in a year or two how we really came out in this trade. I do agree though that it’s hard to think we got the better end when we see Lee just dominating a stud Yankees lineup.
Are you STILL going to attempt to put a spin and the absurdity of the golden barrel of garbage that the Indian’s recieved in this Shapiro specialty?
It’s enough hearing the milk-spewing laughter eminating from Philly, so let’s call things as they are-at the time they occur. (not after it’s so bloody obvious a monkey could call it).
The Tribe called me today about renewing our group’s season tickets (which we aren’t). There are a bunch of factors on why we aren’t, but I’m going to mention how upset we were at the fleecing Shapiro took in the Lee trade. How do you get less for him than CC when Lee had another year left on his deal?!!!! That trade has Dolans’ Discounts written all over it.
To Joseph above: you can wait all you want, you’d be better served by reading scouting reports on the acquired players. Observe.
If Knapp ever pitches a brilliant Game 1 of the World Series for the Tribe we can call the trade even. What are the chances of that happening? 1 in a million?
TD-I re-read your review hear, and stand corrected. Thanks for updating your analysis of this trade.
Shapiro might have to pay those top prospects someday. That doesn’t figure into the owner’s plans.
“Who freakin cares? What’s the fascination with Braylon (errr, Cliff), last time I checked he’s now a Jet (I mean Philly).”
/Braylon-jet’d
What’s better: Isis having to eat crow, or the fact that he basically admitted that he just posts him comments WITHOUT READING THE POSTS???
@4
I’d rather not read scouting reports or observe. There are high-talented prospects that never pan out and players that come out of nowhere to do great.
Currently, yes.. it looks like we got fleeced big time on this trade for not getting ANY of their top 3 prospects I will completely agree with you and anyone else on that point. At the same time, who’s to say those top 3 prospects will pan out and who’s to say the players we got will not? The odds are probably not with us but at the same time you nor anybody else knows the real results of this trade until we see how the players develop.. or possibly don’t develop.
You’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine and personally most people on here seem to loathe you and your opinions; I honestly like them as it brings “balance to the force” in a sports sort of way.
I never would have expected the dominance of Lee last night, but one could have predicted the ultimate outcome: that Lee has more grit and determination that CC will ever have.
Maybe it’s the humble roots of a man from which greatness was never expected, or a guy who two years ago didn’t even make the Tribe’s playoff roster.
Compare that to the man who has had everything handed to him on a silver platter and still underperforms this outcome was not surprising.
Now, of course, CC’s collapse wasn’t as abysmal as the one’s he pulled in the playoffs in Cleveland and Milwaukee, but giving up two dingers to a lefty for the first time as a Yankee, still qualifies as collapse of an ace.
I am nauseous. I find myself furious at Shapiro, Dolan, and Cliff himself–why wasn’t he this good in 2007? Add THIS Cliff Lee to the CC/Fausto front of the rotation and we’d have finished off Boston and run through Colorado.
Irrational, yes, but maddening nonetheless.
What makes this even worse, is that Lee & his agent approached management during spring training seeking an extension. He was not looking to leave, as CC was. The fact that management rebuffed Lee speaks volumes about our future.
If we are not going to pay Lee, how are we ever going to pay anyone who becomes a star? Then management compounds their error by giving him away in a salary dump, and gets virtually nothing in return.
I was rooting hard for Lee last night, and hope the Phils defeat the evil empire. Without an NFL style salary cap, we have no hope. Having said all this, I am still renewing my share of season tickets for next year, as I simply love the game for its own sake, and will go to see the visiting starts just as I did in the 60’s 70’s and 80’s.
@13
Was it ever made public exactly what Lee was asking for $$$ wise? I ask because knowing now that the Indians financially are hurting maybe Lee was asking for more than we could simply afford.
best part for Philly? they have him for 2 years!?
somebody make the hurting go away….
It definitely hurt (I actually said “shutup” when Scott Van Pelt said on Sportscenter, “how do you think Indians fans feel right now?”) watching that. Still, the point about never knowing what prospects will work out and which won’t is important. Keep in mind, when we traded Colon, Brandon Phillips was the “stud” we were supposed to be getting, and two guys named “Sizemore” and “Lee” were just a few extra players to sweeten the deal.
And while Shapiro may have been fleeced, if that trade keeps the Yankees from winning the World Series, it may still be worth it.
i am happy that it ended up being Lee vs CC…i think it should be an “in your face” to the Dolans.
i understand the limitations, but c’mon, trading Cy Young winners in 2 straight seasons!?!?
Did anyone else want to throw up when fox showed the graphic entitled “you still have Lebron” which showed CC and Cliff in their old tribe photos? I must have said about 18 straight words that were both incoherent and completely inappropriate for the WFNY website. I think I made up new swear words…
Alas, hopefully the Dolans will someday realize that you have to spend money to make money. Manny Acta clearly has his work cut out for him.
I agree with Joseph. I mean if the Phillies top 3 guys you mentioned flame out will we feel better about the trade? No. what’s crappy about this situation is that Dolan/Shapiro felt they had to trade Lee this year. Blame the system, blame the owner, I don’t care. It sucks. Screw competing with the big boys for other teams’ free agents, there should be a system in baseball (like the NBA) where you get to keep your best home grown players if you want them.
You can say we should have held on to these guys and then paid them what they wanted, but the Yankees will always be able to out spend no matter how much the little guys want to give.
I’m done with the Tribe and Browns. I’m blown away by the poor decisions behind the Lee trade and the Quinn benching.
Regarding the Lee trade and small market teams, if that is the business model the Indians have to operate under, then they can have it. I will stop buying tickets and merchandise and watching games and their advertisiers on TV — and the team can move. MLB needs to fix the sitch pronto.
Same goes for Mangenious. As a ticket and merchandie buyer and TV veiwer, I deserve a straight answer as to why Quinn isn’t starting. He hasn’t played enough to prove his worth or worthlessness. DA has proven his worthlessness. If it’s because of the incentives he would have earned, well, now I’m done.
I will let my fantasy rosters dictate who I root for from here on out — as I won’t be able to just cheer for some other team. However, if LeBron leaves, I’ll be following him wherever he goes. Frak Shapiro. Frak Mangenious. Frak the midwest mentality that we can’t achieve greatness.
Nice job not reading the post before you jump all over someone, Isis. And what’s with the British parlance all of a sudden? Bloody good showing, chap.
I have to admit that I’m happy and proud of Cliff. He did exactly what I was hoping he would do: Outduel CC and shut down the Yankees entirely. I’ve always been a much bigger Clifton fan than CC fan, and the fact that CC is dealing for the Yanks solidifies that rationale. But yes, the fact that we got 4 mediocre scrubs with no major league experience for one of the best pitchers of the era and a promising young outfielder is absolutely inexcusable. I try to ignore it, and I think about how Cliff does deserve this respect with a winning team, and how he’s officially embarrassed those who thought they were getting short-changed by not picking up Roy Halladay instead, but still……………….it kills.