A Letter to Bernie Kosar
October 19, 2009Inside the Eric Mangini Hiring
October 19, 2009Time to pile on the Browns. Sure, I’ll drink the Mangini kool-aid for the year. In today’s NFL, it doesn’t take much to turn things around. All it takes is some good drafting, good leadership, a last place schedule, and some luck. Just ask the 2008 Miami Dolphins. Bill Parcells and Tony Sparano took over a 1-15 team and won the AFC East a year later. Yet while many a team has turned it around quickly, the Browns seem to be stuck in the proverbial rebuilding mode.
Eric Mangini has ruffled many feathers since he has been here, but in doing so, he is attempting to establish his culture. He is also running out players with lesser talent that follow his rules. Kellen Winslow had to go this past offseason because his contract demands were unreasonable. Braylon Edwards forced his way out of town thanks to a ginormous ego, bad hands, and one too many off the field incidents.
Were the Browns a better team after they jettisoned these two players? Of course not. K2 and Braylon had the type of talent that the current team sorely lacks. But the way Mangini looked at it, his team was a loser with these two on the roster, so how much worse could it get without them?
To quote the great Larry David: “prettyyyyyyyyyyyy…….pretttttttttttttttty bad.”
Hands down, the statistic of the year is that the Browns offense has yet to score on a TD from one of its Wide Receivers or Running Backs. That stat actually goes back now to Jerome Harrison’s 72 yard TD run in Buffalo last November 17th.
Show me where the talent is on offense.
After last week’s 6-3 drop-fest win in Buffalo, I wrote that Derek Anderson should receive a mulligan for his 2-17 performance. I blamed the multitude of drops and the gusting winds. Yesterday’s debacle cannot be defended. I’ve said this before – if you could put Brady Quinn’s head on DA’s body, you’d probably have a really good QB on your hands. But while DA made a few throws that wowed us yesterday, the number of head-scratching decisions vastly outnumbered said throws.
Not that this is such an out of the box call, but neither Brady Quinn nor Derek Anderson will be on the roster next year. It also won’t shock me when the Browns draft a QB with one of their top two picks and hand the reigns over to Brett Ratliff on opening day 2010.
So how are you supposed to win with no QB’s? Surround them with a solid supporting cast. The WR’s are either young and inexperienced (Mohammad Massaquoi, Brian Robiske, Chansi Stucky), or veteran and average (Mike Furrey, Josh Cribbs). Before you jump all over me, I am only calling Josh Cribbs the WR average at best. The guy is the best special teams player in football and a real talent who deserves to have his contract re-written.
The Tight Ends are nothing to write home about. Robert Royal? May be a nice blocker, but K2 on the pass catching side, he isn’t. Steve Heiden, who I love, cannot stay healthy and his best days are probably behind him. Who knows what they have in Greg Estandia.
As much as I admire Jamal Lewis and Jerome Harrison, neither are considered top tier backs.
Offensively, with either QB at the helm, the unit cannot stay on the field long enough to allow the defense to rest. Save for the Buffalo game, it seems as though by the fourth quarter, Rob Ryan’s defense is gassed. Not that there is much talent there either (I still cannot fathom how Mangini and George Kokinis passed over LB Rey Maulaluga in the second round for Robiske).
If you are an NFL GM looking at the Browns roster, other than Joe Thomas, Shaun Rogers, Josh Cribbs, D’Qwell Jackson, and Eric Wright, who else is a “gotta have” player on this roster?
Sometimes you have to break things all the way down to the bare bones to build it back up. With 11 draft picks in the 2010 draft, it has to start there. The talent has to be upgraded on this team from top to bottom. As for right now, you have to look for small signs of improvement from guys like Massaquoi, Robiske, Abe Elam, and Alex Hall, because the wins aren’t coming.
The Browns next three games are look like losses: Green Bay, at Chicago, and Baltimore. After a trip to Detroit, the next two are at home, but its the Chargers and Steelers who come to the Lake Front.
Peter King’s 2-14 preseason prediction that most scoffed at looks very attainable.
photo by John Kuntz/PD
47 Comments
If the Cleveland Clinic can do a face transplant, I suggest they up their game and do this supposed head transplant. If it works the Browns will likely save money after spending 15 million on an operation. I have a feeling otherwise the QB situation will be running at least 20+ million before they get it figured out.
is it not incredible to think back to preseason 2008 when most analysts thought the browns were in the enviable position of having two NFL starting caliber quarterbacks? wow……
Yeah, let’s draft a QB in the first round. Then we can nail his behind to the bench for two years, then give him 10 quarters to become a star, and then send him to Siberia when he doesn’t.
What does Mangini know about quarterbacks? Nothing, that’s what. But he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know anything. I have zero faith in this big-headed, small-minded control freak.
TD-respectfully, good thing that most of your ruminations here won’t come to pass. You can fill in the blanks as to which ones, but topping the list is your QB assessment-there’s far more to play out this year on that front. And, not all thought Peter King’s 2-14 wasn’t anything but on the mark, at the time.
And you have confidence in Mangini functioning as coach/gm/exec vp to “tear it all down and build it up again”? Do some studying and you’ll find the good ones took what they had, built upon that base, and moved things to a competitive front immediately. Far too many examples to sight, it happens every year. Woe is me………ok, enjoy it.
MrCleaveland is talking serious reality-a voice of reason here. Go ahead, blame the QB’s without any knowledge of what’s going on all-around them, starting with coaching.
MrCleaveland-if BQ is sent anywhere, it’ll be for a starting gig. Then we can all watch as he gets his real opportunity while Kellen Clemens sucks butt here.
When did Tony Soprano become a coach in the NFL?
No QBs this year unless someone completely slips and falls in your lap in a mid/late round. You’ve gotta build up the rest of the team before we have any chance at letting that QB be successful.
I know everyone scoffs at selecting a defense guy and wants to see an offensive playmaker selected, but what if we could land a defensive difference maker like Polamalu or Ray Lewis. I say you’ve gotta go with THE BEST PLAYER available. We don’t have nearly enough talent to draft for need.
Isis,
Right you are as usual, my man.
I hope Quinn wins multiple Super Bowls wherever he winds up, and I hope Randy Lerner pukes as he watches. Then I hope he’ll have the sense to sell the team.
(Man, I can’t believe how steamed I am over this. Better take a walk and look at the leaves.)
The reality is that Quinn will not sack up and throw the ball down field. As a result, the defense puts 8 guys in the box every play, and then they can’t run the ball either.
Quinn will be a back up somewhere.
Every good team in the NFL has good line play.
Keep throwing resources at the O & D lines until they’re excellent. Average skill players can win superbowls behind great lines.
I keep reading this will be one of the deepest draft in years. The powers that be realize this also. Right now we have 11 picks. Draw your own conclusions.
#9 – Seriously, what about Quinn makes you think he can win anything, let alone a Super Bowl? I know, I know, the Browns stink but he looked awful while in there. At least I understand (but do not agree with) a coach being enamored with Anderson given his arm. But Quinn has shown nothing! No arm and bad decisions.
But, to the greater point of can this group draft and develop a QB, well I doubt it.
Chris,
So you’d advocate Quinn heaving the ball downfield into whatever coverage happens to be on the field? DA demonstrated that theory perfectly when he threaded the needle to Ryan Clark on the 1 yard line with Polamalu closing in.
Or perhaps you’d rather see Quinn hold on to the ball much longer so someone like St. Clair can let whomever lines up across from him to have a clear shot. DA did a great job of recognizing the blitz and getting the ball out of his hands. Oh wait…
I’m actually glad Quinn isn’t being forced to play with these losers. This truly is DA’s team.
@13
Mark, the point is that we don’t know if Quinn is any good or not. He was jerked around all training camp and then yanked after only 10 quarters. Maybe he does stink. But we’re never going to find out as long as he’s sitting behind someone who we know for a certain fact really stinks. We’re not even giving ourselves a chance to win by playing Mister Big Arm Stretch the Field 50 Passer Rating. That’s what’s so frustrating.
Give Quinn the rest of the season. If he’s good, then we’ll know. If he’s not good, then we’ll know that too. But to not give him a chance when there’s no reason not to is just wrong.
I like how every post ends up in a stupid endless spiral about the pointless QB debate. I hear Mangini is making a QB Death Panel – let’s all discuss this.
Totally agree with marco: I think the most important units of any team are the two lines, and so I’m giving Mangini the benefit of the doubt because I agreed 100% with his draft day strategy this year, of trading down and taking the best center available. I’ve been pleasantly surprised by Elam too; I think he’s been the biggest single reason for the improved run defense this season.
Personally my wishlist for this upcoming draft would be the best defensive player available at the top of the 1st round (hopefully a maniacal safety along the lines of Polamalu) and stock up on RG/RT and d-linemen in the ensuing rounds.
But either way, I don’t personally give a fig who starts at QB next year because no matter who it is, he’s going to suck. Really we’re looking at 2011 at the earliest before we’re again in position to roll the dice on drafting that “franchise” QB.
Ndamakong Suh please
@ Denny Mangini would over think the death panel, it would obviously be too hard for him to choose between two people
Denny’s just crabby because there’s no QB controversy at OSU for him to make endless, pointless comments about.
But you know, I think it’s time to give Bauserman a legitimate shot. Pryor just isn’t stretching the field blah blah blah . . .
“So you’d advocate Quinn heaving the ball downfield into whatever coverage happens to be on the field?”
ABSOLUTELY NOT, I WOULD RATHER SEE THE BROWNS THROW 4 YARD DUMP PASSES ALL DAY LONG AND LOSE THAT WAY.
Please tell me who in the NFL you’re going to beat with an 8.8 ypc average?
The only difference with having DA on the field is that it actually allows the Browns to run the damn ball.
Browns Avg rushing yards:
Quinn – 71.3 per game
Anderson – 136 per game
DA sucks, but you have to respect his arm.
And, not all thought Peter King’s 2-14 wasn’t anything but on the mark, at the time.
And what do we have for our winner? The same crappy team the rest of us all have to watch.
Or, did you get a blender and the rest of the money on a gift certificate?
Where are all you Shanchez lovers now?
@21: Playing the Bengals and the Bills allow you to have a rushing game, as well.
To be fair to Mr. Quinn. His two real playing performances were against two teams who still remain undefeated. Broncos and Minnesota. pulled in the Baltimore(3-3) game. Anderson has played against arguably lesser talent in a questionable steelers(4-2) team. A bad buffalo(2-4) team and a suspect cincy team (4-2). Shockingly, in my opinion, our DC mr. ryan deserves a standing ovation because our defense actually has shown some signs of life this year. Sh*t we have been EFFECTIVELY blitzing… when was the last time we could say that?
solidify our lines, draft a stud defensive player (safety or LB), and find an o coordinator that knows what he is doing. simply accomplishing these 3 things will make this team more competitive. without establishing this foundation we will continue to strike out on qb’s and linger between mediocrity and down right awfulness.
@marco,
Excellent point about the lines. But I think when you run a 3-4 defensive scheme the LB’s become just as important as the 3 guys up front.
I love the budding Bromance with Mr. Cleaveland & Isis. Warms my heart.
i am soooo sick of hearing “respect DA’s arm.” why? because his arms throws int’s on the goalline/redzone ALL the freaking time. any comparison to BQ is dumb because it is clear they were not using the same game plan as they do with DA. They set up DQ to fail. Anderson sucks!
So the whole BQ head DA body analogy is stupid. DA sucks and you can’t ignore his decision making b/c once every 35 throws he connects for 50 yd bomb. it doesn’t make up for it.
I support a QB death panel.
@28
Good. You might learn something.
@27
Sure. I’ll buy that.
I believe that either DA or BQ would be fine if they had a line that gave them time to throw. The BA/DQ debate is just a red herring, and misses the larger point that this team is going NOWHERE without a better OL & defense.
I’m not picky about where the players come form (FA or Draft) but the Browns need to put together an OL that can pass protect effectively, and get enough of a push to move the sticks on 3rd & 1. Right now they can do neither (I mentally prepare for the punt whenever 3rd & 1 comes up), and they’re losing because of it.
As far as defense is concerned, our LBs must really inhale richard, because we have a ProBowl tackle. The probowl tackle is supposed to be the lynchpin of stopping the run, and we’re still getting gashed. A run-stopping LB is a real need for this team.
i also agree with Mr. Cleveland and Isis…can i join your lovefest and make it a triangle.
To MrCleveland and Isis, Thank you for speaking the truth. BQ should be the starting QB. We need to see what we got.
Did either of the Mannings get pulled after their first 5 poor starts?? No. Is NYJ gonna pull Sanchez after his 8 picks in two games?? No. You have to let a rookie QB learn.
Quinn is a rookie. He was nail to the bench for 2 years. He was jerked around in camp and preseason. Then he was asked to be a star with poor tallent in 10 quarters. This is the prime example how to not handle a possible franchise QB.
We know what DA is. DA is Rex Grossman. Throw the ball long down field for a TD and we will overlook your past 5 picks, poor throws, and poor decisions. Big arm, no brains.
For those who think Quinn has a weak arm, your wrong. Its not the strongest in the NFL but its not as bad as you think it is. Mangini and Daboll stressed not turning the ball over and called short route plays. Quinn was afraid to lose his job. Mangini gave him absolutely no confidence. Imagine not being named starter until the wed. before week 1. You hardly had time with the first team, you know coach is a turn over or a bad play from replacing you, now ask yourself if you want to take a chance on the big play?
Quinn might stink, but we dont know. DA does stink. We will lose with either guy. I would rater see if Quinn will improve so we can plan accordingly for next year.
On a final note, MARK MY WORDS “This team will never succeed with Mangini.”
I am for playing BQ only in the hopes that he has a couple decent games and his trade status increases. If we can get anything better than a 4th we have to pull the trigger.
@34 – Just a terrible job understanding the correct usage of quotations in your last sentence. That’s all.
Here are my two cents: we suck. The Browns are currently a miserable team that is no doubt one of the worst in the NFL, and I truly believe that this season, starting DA or BQ will not affect our win total. Either quarterback is not enough right now to make this team even average on the surface.
Yes it does sound reasonable to see what we have in Brady Quinn, but you also have to ask yourself if you could stand the offensive ineptitude that this team had in the first three weeks. It was just horrendous to see the team not have any big plays ever, and Quinn’s per passing attempt numbers were well below the league average.
A Browns team led by Derek Anderson this season will probably go 3-13 while scoring maybe 15 points a game. A Browns team led by Brady Quinn will probably go 3-13 while scoring maybe 10 points a game and hopefully, learning something about our future quarterback in the process. All I am saying in the end, is that this debate just does not matter because of how bad overall this team is in all other facets of football.
Hmmm. There’s a fun recurring myth involving Quinn – that he doesn’t have an arm and that was the main knock on him before the draft. Actually, it turns out that everyone who has said this is EXACTLY wrong. The scouting report on Quinn from scouts.com, at least, lists his weaknesses:
-Decision-making and field vision
and strengths:
-Mental toughness, pocket awareness, and arm strength. Here are the actual notes:
Possessing the size, arm strength and intangibles to be a starter at the next level, Quinn is an incredibly productive college quarterback who translates well to the next level. Comes off a poor senior campaign and needs to refocus, fine-tune his decision-making and play within himself.
Now, that’s just the scouts.com report. There certainly could be other scouts out there who thought the exact opposite of this one.
I have an Idea…..Since this year is a wash anyways, and neither quarterback is worth keeping, how about making Josh Cribbs the starting quarterback. Hell he passes as well (interceptions) as both Anderson and Quinn, but he can at least run for first downs. In fact just have him back there as quarterback with no other running backs, add one or two more offensive linemen to block and have him just run the ball and maybe throw in an incomplete pass every now and then just to keep the defenses slightly honest. Put trades together for both Anderson and Quinn, then draft someone with potentual in the third round or so to lead the team next year…..
Who in the hell is Alex Hall?
seriously, i think crankshaft is on to something.
Trade DA for Vince Young.
Trade BQ for Michael Vick.
Put all three in the backfield with Cribbs and take turns giving them the ball.
We’d still lose, but at least it would be fun to watch!
I think Pat is on to something.
Hey now that Bernie is here to tutor DA maybe DA can learn to not throw the ball into double coverage, put a touch on the ball or not panic every time he is touched by the defense.
On second thought maybe BK can convince Mangini that DA will never get it.
Am I the only one who doesn’t think our O-Line is THAT bad? I mean…it’s mostly just St. Clair, right? Esp. as Mack is playing better each week.
If we draft a QB early he better be starting on DAY ONE.
Brett Ratliff?
“Please re-new your season tickets as the Cleveland Browns starting QB will be the guy who was BEHIND Quinn and DA on the depth chart last season.”
Not good.
@45
An O-line is as good as it’s weakest link.