While We’re Waiting… LeBron’s Headband, Sunday Takeaways, and Clausen Punched
November 24, 2009Jim Schwartz: Eric Mangini’s Latest Burnt Bridge
November 24, 2009So here’s the scenario the Browns find themselves in with Brady Quinn. The team is 1-9 with six games to go coming off perhaps the most humiliating loss of the last five years. We’re entering that funny part of the season, where the Browns annually tend to play their worst football. This is when the team is tired of losing and tired of putting in the effort and not seeing any results for their hard work. It’s frustrating for the players and frustrating for the fans. And it’s in this climate that the Browns are now forced to decipher what can be salvaged of Brady Quinn’s career.
On the season Quinn’s numbers look as such: six games, five starts. 80-141 (56.7%) for 812 yards (5.76 yards per attempt). Five TD, five interceptions. That’s a QB rating of 70.4. Not the most inspiring numbers, but also not the black hole of QB play that Derek Anderson has been. But the question is, has Brady Quinn done enough for the Browns to make a decision either way on his future in Cleveland? As of three days ago, I was convinced the Browns should just wipe the slate clean and be done with him. I was probably wrong, though.
A while back, I interviewed Cavalier Attitude’s Amar Panchmatia, and he said something that has always resonated with me. When I asked him about the signing of Little Larry Hughes, he said:
“I tried to envision Laura Hughes as “The Answer” to all the Cavs’ non-LeBron related problems. The injury history was what bothered me right off the bat, and I’m telling you the truth when I say that that’s the very first thing that came to my mind. I was positive and upbeat about it, but to be honest with you, I had to talk myself into it. Usually with moves that make you better, you don’t have to talk yourself into it. Getting Michael Redd or Joe Johnson wouldn’t have required into “talking into it.” Hughes did. That should have been my red flag right there.”
That really makes a lot of sense to me, and I did the same thing when the Browns drafted Brady Quinn. Going into that draft, I was not a Brady Quinn fan at all. I had just seen my Ohio State Buckeyes make Quinn a complete non factor in the Fiesta Bowl, and I had my doubts about just how good (or not) Quinn really was. But when the Browns drafted him, I talked myself into believing it was a good thing. Now, I feel like I was a fool for believing. But perhaps I am making a mistake now in the present in not wanting the Browns to stick with Quinn next year.
In the most recent issue of ESPN The Magazine Football Outsider’s Aaron Schatz wrote an excellent article about the question we’ve all been wondering: When do you know it’s too late for a QB to turn it around [Insider Link]? Well, Football Outsiders has done the research, and it turns out the answer is 2 years. Schatz writes:
“When is it time to give up on your young QB?
The quick answer is: after two years (unless, of course, the guy has spent that time on the bench). If a QB falters badly in those first two seasons, you can pretty much write off his chances of ever amounting to anything.
[…]
And that’s why all the fuss swirling around at least some struggling young QBs is premature. Start with Quinn. Browns coach Eric Mangini apparently decided the Notre Dame product wasn’t NFL quality after six career starts, even though his numbers were better than those of his replacement, Anderson. Quinn’s career stats (94 of 174 for 972 yards, 3 TDs, 5 INTs) actually mimic Hasselbeck’s (84 of 172, 1,079 yards, 4 TDs, 5 INTs) and Troy Aikman‘s (90 of 179, 1,209 yards, 4 TDs, 12 INTs) in their first seven starts. Good thing Mangini is rethinking his initial assessment.”
In the article, Schatz gives example after example of guys who validate their findings that a QB needs to be given two years. And this is precisely why, despite my doubts about his potential, Quinn needs to be given one more year in Cleveland to prove his worth.
It’s really a shame that Eric Mangini, and the Cleveland Browns as a whole, have botched up the development of Quinn so badly. Rather than letting Quinn play through some early ineffectiveness and giving him a chance to grow into the starting QB position this season, Mangini instead panicked and pulled Quinn for DA. Now, the question is whether it’s fair to even count this season as Quinn’s first season.
As of right now Quinn has eight career starts. If he starts each of the final six games of the year, that will give him 14 career starts. That’s close to a whole season’s worth. It’s tough to evaluate much in such disjointed and uneven starts spread over multiple parts of multiple seasons, but it is experience none the less.
So if we are to believe what Aaron Schatz and Football Outsiders have found about this subject, and I see no reason not to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one, then it is imperative the Browns let Brady Quinn be the starter from day one of training camp next year and all of the regular season. That’s not to say the Browns absolutely should not draft a QB this offseason (there’s nothing wrong with a little insurance), but it’s time to give Brady Quinn his fair shot and to find out once and for all if Brady is up for the job. We’re not going to learn anything about this team the rest of this season. This season is over. But if the Browns are finally ready to just let Brady have the job and run with it, then next year will be his watershed moment.
68 Comments
Thank you for asking Bobby; Q: Who do you think will come in and play better? A: Tim Tebow (he shows heart, hardcore football pours from his blood. He plays in a tough division. Notre Dame is an overrated team, they always have been, Quinn has been overrated from day one. They need to draft Tebow and start him immediately.) Tim Tebow can bring that Drew Brees mentality to the game; motivation. Q: Who would you draft if you’re in position to (answered above), and who would you try to bring in during FA? A: Free agents: Jahri Evans, Saints – OL., Logan Mankins, New England – OL. Richard Marshall, Panthers – DB. Elvis Dumervil, Broncos – DL (expensive but a franchise player). All of these free agents are good. They are all young. They have a ton of potential to grow. The Browns have some injuries that have plagued them on the defensive side of the ball. If we can keep our defensive staff healthy we will not be last in the league again next year.
In regards to a coach: No good coach will come aboard now. They will wait until the season is over. I would pay out the money for a Shanahan or Holmgren, I would even go as far as saying Shottenheimer would be a good pick. Holmgren has already stated that he wants a challenge, a team to bring from nothing to something. We need a leader with that mentality. Spend the big bucks on a good coach/gm, it will trickle down success. We picked up Mangini as quickly as we could. Mangini has Belichick equity, thats why he was picked up so quickly and given a 2nd chance. But Mangini is nothing like Belichick.
Mangini has admitted defeat. He won’t say it, but it’s written all over his face. You can see it on the field and during press conferences. Defeat is written all over Quinn’s face as well, take a good look at the guy while he’s on the sidelines. He knows that Cleveland will not keep him around. The fans control this team and the fans can see the writing on the wall.
Talent can only take you so far in this game. Look at Ray Lewis (whose team is not doing so well this year but is a good example), look at Drew Bree’s; these players pump up a team. These players provoke an offense. They ignite a defense. They bring that extra spark thats needed to take talent to a whole new level. We need a player that will ignite this team. We need a coach that shows some emotion and ignites this team.
Wow. Tim Tebow? Just…….wow.
@51
I stopped reading at Tim Tebow. He’s going to get wrecked in the NFL.
@ 51 – Holmgren has said he wants to be a team President or Parcells-type czar, not a coach. Marty said today he’s not looking to get into coaching again. The Bills are gonna go hard after Shanahan, so we’ll have to see there. So honestly I don’t think any of the guys you listed will be coaching the Cleveland Football Browns next year.
And Tebow? False.
I have yet to see anybody magic marker the word ‘DEFEAT’ on anybody’s forehead so far.
Denny: That’s cause they’re wearing helmets, duh!
Mangini doesn’t wear a helmet. smuhhhhh
Tim Tebow, hahahahahahahahahaha
He started winding up while I read your post and he still hasn’t released the ball yet.
I spy Isis…
I agree with the actual article written by Rock and the notion of two years. I was actually talking about this with my brother in law who is a Raiders fan for some reason and we were talking about how bad our QBs have been. I told him that at least Russell had a chance to be in there the whole time, take his lumps, and prove if he had anything. Obviously he didn’t.
The notion of taking Tebow I guess isn’t a horrible one, depending on which pick you are talking about. 4th round and he is sitting there? Sure, take a flyer. As long as we hit well on the ones before that. But if your idea was to be taking Tebow at any point before the 4th round, then no freaking way. Sorry, but his skill set doesn’t seem to fit the QB.
So I am all for just sitting and signing any and all OLs, DLs, LBs, WRs, and CBs and sitting one more year with Quinn. My only hesitation would be if we could sign Kolb. I don’t know yet what the Eagles will do with him, how expensive he would be, or if we would have to give up picks which I don’t want to do. But that looks like a guy who has had the time to sit and watch and learn, and when he got the chance in two games this year set a record for most yards in first two games. So I would be on board for signing Kolb if possible and getting rid of Brady. Otherwise, give Quinn a chance and build the rest of the team.
@35 – Were you misspelling all of those words on purpose?….I don’t get it.
Wow now that I’m caught up to the bottom of the comments..
sandersonm – What makes you think any of those free agents would WANT to come to Cleveland? Logan Mankins and Elvis Dumervile are great players. Not only will they get top money, but I’m sure that their successful teams are going to try to resign them. And jsut as another point, we aren’t going to get an O-linemen in free agency when we already have so much money tied up in out C/LG/LT. Look for a 2-3rd round pick to address the right side of the line.
And Tebow? That’s ignorant. You’re ignorant. (Said in a south park Micheal Jackson voice)
i only read posts 1-30, so maybe this has already been said, but that “study” is COMMON SENSE (no sarcasm). been saying it all season…
patience is a virtue.
Kyle,
I haven’t gotten deep into the numbers but I imagine if you count the snaps to Cribbs and the amount of running plays in each game that Quinn will have a hard time reaching those numbers. I would be willing to bet the people in the Browns front office have it figured out as way not to pay Quinn. How else can anyone explain Andersons preformance and that fact Magina left him in week after week. Andersons play reminded me of one of the all time worst QB’s ever and a player with similiar numbers Marc Wilson.
I cannot believe some of you that have commented that you recoginze that Quinn most likely will not be a superstar and that is ok for you.
NO! NO! NO!
Quinn is not ever going to lead our team anywhere. He is just like Couch, and Anderson. Cannot compete with the elite of the NFL. I will concide that Quinn will get another shot at starter next year cause we will not have anything else, however at the 2011 draft the team should be drafting another QB by then.
And to add in on this one more time.. Since I do not believe Quinn will the QB of the future for our team and I also believe the Browns should not draft a qb in the 2010 draft. In my humble opinon I think they should be looking at the following players as well as others of course…
Jake Locker – Washington
Ryan Mallett – Arkansas
Zac Robinson – Okla. St.
@ 65 – Mallett could be Jamarcus 2.0, but he’s an absolute beast. It bottles my mind to think that Michigan had a QB of that size and that talented and let him go. I wouldn’t mind seeing him playing for the Browns, but I hope for all of our sake that we’re not drafting that high next year (though we likely will be).
You Quinn haters are so off. He is going to be an elite qb, if not in Cleveland then somewhere else. I’ll say it again with time(even with a lack of talent to help) he can make all the reads and throws! He has command of the huddle and can read defenses( da can’t ). If he would of suck against the lions you would say he sucks, but when he dies good you still say he sucks. I got news for you the lions have more playmakers then us. They may of went 0-16 last year, only because they didn’t play us. They were in games last year. Plain and simple we have no talent. I think he is going to get better every week and will get one more year with the new coaches/gm. The thing that sucks is it’s going to be his 3rd coach and like3 or 4 oc, I can’t remember. Da is a waste, can’t read a defense no accuracy, buy I’m suppose to be impressed cause he is tall with a good arm. J Russell can throw 60 yards from his knees, how is that working for him. If you can’t watch Quinn play and tell he is a quaterback you don’t know much,I’ve to Canada and watch hockey. The thing that I think would help him is taking off some muscle, he is to built. And whoever called me mr.Quinn my ne isbrady09 got my son who is6weeks old, and mo I didn’t name him after Quinn! We need someone who cam draft some weapons for Quinn and hopefully get Eric berry with our first round pick. I want Jon gruden!! I’m sick of everyone saying he signed a contract at espn, it’s called hedging your bet, he can get out of it to coach( remember bill parcels)!!! Go browns, we can’t lose forever!!??
Sorry typing on my iPhone. Small keyboard, a few mess ups, but you get the point.