The Browns Will Win If…
November 16, 2009WFNY East Meet-up: Nov 18th at Fado (DC)
November 16, 2009The news isn’t that Golden State traded away Stephen Jackson. The news is who they sent him to. The Charlotte Bobcats aquired the disgruntled guard along with Acie Law for Raja Bell and Vladimir Radmanovic. We have been told over the past few weeks that Golden State was insisting on getting a big man back in the deal, and the Cavs certainly weren’t willing to part with Zydrunas without getting a center in return. The bottom line turned out to be a stalemate between the two clubs, and so this morning Jackson is packing his bags for North Carolina.
So, as the title suggests- what could have been? What would adding Jackson have done for the Cavaliers? Well, since nobody wants to talk about chemistry anymore, I won’t bore you with those details. Jackson would have been a tremendous help at the 2 guard spot. We have no idea if Delonte West is going to be a contributor to this team. At this stage I would all but eliminate him and consider it a bonus if you get something. It sounds like West would have been a part of that deal anyway. Adding Jackson would have made the second unit even stronger by pushing Parker to the 6th man role. A bench of Parker, Z, Varejao Gibson and Moon would have been very nice.
But the real trouble here was Jackson’s contract. Jackson has an escalating contract that goes through the ’12/’13 season. If you look at Cleveland’s team salary situation, next season the Cavs have $33,182,913 in guaranteed contracts (with no options picked up.) LeBron James has a player option for just over $17 million. We are assuming he opts out of his deal, even if he resigns with the Cavs. Add Jackson’s contract to the total and suddenly that number becomes $41 million without LeBron, Shaq or Zydrunas. The salary cap is expected to be between $50 and $54 million. Even at $55 million the Cavaliers would be scrambling to find a replacement center while maintaining James.
But the Cavs have been willing to go into the luxury tax before? Yes they have, but you can’t sign players once you hit the cap, you can only go over the cap by resigning your own players. (Unless they agree to the league minimum or you have your mid-level exception.) So if you are interested in the world’s oldest and slowest center rotation AGAIN next year, by all means resign Shaq and Z.
That leaves us with trades. We know that expiring deals are quite valuable in today’s NBA economy. The Cavs have two big ones with Shaq at $20 million and Zydrunas at $11.5 million. I don’t expect Shaq to be traded. He was brought here to help defend Dwight Howard in the playoffs. I can’t see a situation in which the Cavaliers abandon that plan. We know that Z has been the subject of many trade rumors, and fans are a little mixed on that one. They would hate to see Ilgauskas go, but deep down would trade Z’s happiness for their own. There is another bargaining chip however.
It was brought up in the Stephen Jackson discussions, and quite frankly I wasn’t sure it was an avenue the Cavs were exploring, or that Wally was willing to do. It is the infamous sign and trade. Wally is a free agent, and can sign with any team he wants- but that salary would count against a team’s cap this year. If the Cavs (who can negotiate any contract amount they want with Wally) sign him and then trade him, the other team could get rid of a player with a larger salary with more years for what would certainly be a one year deal for Wally. Is that clear as mud? Let me give you an example-
Let’s say Charlotte now decides that they don’t want Gerald Wallace. (Hypothetical here, don’t know why they wouldn’t.) His deal has three years after this season and averages around $10 million per. The Cavs and Charlotte could agree on a sign and trade, with the Cavaliers signing Wally to a one year $9 million dollar contract (Wallace’s number this season) and make the swap. The Bobcats would get an expiring contract, and the Cavaliers would get the player they wanted. Would they have to pay a tax on the deal? Yep. Would Gilbert do that? Yep.
So who might be a realistic possibility with this sign and trade? Hard to say right now. The Cavaliers will most likely wait a little bit while Wally continues to recover from knee surgery. As the season wears on we will see what teams are likely out of the picture and wouldn’t mind clearing cap space. Al Jefferson? Andre Iguodala? The winter is certainly going to be interesting…
41 Comments
We cannot acquire a SG/SF who can’t shoot (i.e. Wallace or Iguodola). We missed out on the best SG available unless the Bucks decide to move Redd. We have to go for a big now.
I really think this was a bad move though. I think S-Jax was exactly what we needed and we didn’t even have to give up Z’s contract. We could have used Z to trade for a big anyway. We are not getting a big for Delonte and a Wally s-a-t.
This was stupid.
Iguodala? You’re crazy. Philly would more likely try and move Brand or Dalembert. Both suck, btw.
Minnesota sent Wally Szczerbiak to Boston for Ricky Davis. In that trade, they received a draft pick. That pick then went to Boston with Kevin Garnett for Al Jefferson. Trading Wally back to Minnesota for Jefferson would complete the circle. And inherently leave Minnesota with nothing.
I’m in.
I’m glad we passed. S-Jax is a good player, there is no doubt about that. But the guy has never been a part of a winning team except for the Upset Warriors two years back.
I’m not saying teams are bad because he’s on them, but I don’t know if he has what’s needed “upstairs” to be a part of what we want to do here. Take Mo for example – great in the regular season, as expected, but dead in the playoffs because of (as many people believe) inexperience.
…Also his contract was miserable.
…I wouldn’t have minded moving Z, though. He has been a waste of space this season.
Never been part of a winning team? Silly Ben.
Via Wikipedia:
During the 2002â2003 NBA season, Jackson became a key member of the Spurs. Appearing in 80 games (58 starts), his season averages were 11.8 points, 3.6 rebounds and 2.3 assists in 28.2 minutes per game. In the course of their postseason run in the 2003 NBA Playoffs, Jackson proved to be a vital asset and helped the Spurs win their second NBA Championship, averaging 12.8 points per game during the playoffs â the team’s 3rd leading scorer.
A deal that included West for Jackson would not have been a good idea. Trading one of the best values in the NBA in West (when he actually plays) for one of the worst values in Captain Jack doesn’t seem to be a good way to build a team in a salary cap situation.
John Hollinger’s analysis of Jackson soured me on him.
“The results, once again, were per-game averages that inflated his real value. While Jackson had a good season by his standards, the Warriors’ league-leading pace and his extended minutes gave him the per-game averages (20.7 points, 6.5 assists, 5.1 rebounds) of a much better player.”
That’s probably true, and his PER of 16.20 shows that he’s slightly above average, not the triple-threat his stats would indicate. Paying that contract for a player on the wrong side of 30 doesn’t seem like a good idea.
I had mixed feelings about getting Jax, but if you want to feel much better about not getting him check out Dwyer’s post about the trade. He could not be more right about Jax needing, demanding, and controlling the ball the whole time he is in the game.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Stephen-Jackson-is-off-to-Charlotte?urn=nba,202814
@#4
“But the guy has never been a part of a winning team except for the Upset Warriors two years back”
Also the ’03 world champion Spurs
@Ben: That’s why he won a ring as an integral part of the Spurs a few years back right? Let’s not create false premises here.
Jax was a guy I liked because really, we can’t get a better player. I think a deal with Wally will happen, even if it’s a lower level deal than getting an Al Jefferson or David West. Maybe a guy like Rudy Gay for Delonte (I think salaries match) or another 2 guard that can defend multiple positions. There are going to be a lot of rumors as we move closer to the deadline.
ben, in case you didnt know, he won a ring with the spurs in ’03 so i think they qualify as a winning team. He also was on the pacers team that went to the 2nd round of the playoffs in 05 so he definitely has the playoff experience and has been a part of winning teams.
With that being said tho, I agree with the contract, it would have killed the cavs in the long run and jackson has always had character issues
I’m glad the Cavs remained patient and stuck to their guns. There will be other deals out there once teams are out of playoff contention. With Shaq’s injury, it’s hard to get rid of Z at this moment (I still want to trade him, but for something better). G.S. said they wouldn’t buyout and release Z after the trade, so the Cavs were reluctant to do the deal and lose their size. SJax is good, but not that good that I’d want his contract for 4 more years. He’s 31, so chances are that his play is going to decline sooner rather than later.
Mike, I agree. Delonte was a deal breaker. Problems or not, trading Delonte and it’s very cap friendly contract is a bad idea, unless they can get a good, young player in return.
whoever posted that article over the weekend about potentially acquiring chris paul made my weekend. as well as ruined the rest of my season since i know it wont happen. but still…
Poor Ben.
Mike & Oppie: West is likely not going to be a viable NBA player. Knowing someone who suffers from bipolar disorder, I have seen that it is extremely difficult to function everyday. You are asking this guy to be a staple on a championship contender. Near impossible.
Not to mention the fact that it’s going to take weeks and weeks to resolve his legal issues.
I think one more person should tell me he was on the spurs đ
4 is not enough!
i stand corrected though.
I’d love to have someone like Sefolosha who can just lock people down and keep everyone honest. The offense is running smooth these past few games and all we need out of our SG is to allow Parker to come off the bench and to stop a scorer.
I’m not saddened remotely about this. Jackson’s contract was beyond awful and bringing him to the team wasn’t going to guarantee that our chances to win the title would dramatically improve or keep LeBron. To take on a contract like that from a guy in his 30s, you gotta bring in a superstar. S-Jax is not that.
Hey ben, Jackson won a title with the Spurs.
The Keith Van Horn / Devin Harris / Jason Kidd *cough*bullsh*cough** that happened a couple years is a perfect example to this scenario. The Mavericks basically exhumed and signed Van Horn’s corpse to include in a trade to New Jersey with Devin Harris and others, then New Jersey promptly bought out Van Horn and returned his corpse to it’s final resting place.
What do you think the over/under will be for months until Jackson demands a trade from Charlotte? Six months? Nine months?
West is a non-guaranteed contract next year correct? So GS could have waived him and we could have resigned him after 30 days right? If that’s the case we could have had S-Jax for Wally, but I might be wrong with the Delonte stuff.
@BB
It would make sense if Sjax plays well they could dump him right back to Cleveland. More of a sallery dump, and possibly getting talent.
“West is likely not going to be a viable NBA player”
He looked just fine last year, so I have to disagree with that. I realize he’s had his troubles, but last season there were talks about him being a young star on this team, so it shows that he can play no matter the circumstance. Now, no one will know which way he’ll go a from here, but it’s not worth parting with his talent/contract for an old SG with an awful contract and a history destroying team chemistry. We will make a move a bring in someone
THIS JUST IN – CHARLOTTE TRADES S-JAX TO SAN ANTONIO AND WINS ANOTHER CHAMPIONSHIP!
woot!
Can we now DISPENCE with the absurd daily talk of cancerous and rediculous contract of Stephen Jackson? Don’t need him, don’t want him. Next.
@#8 Tom, That article reminds me of the late 90s Cavs. Sorta feel bad for Bobcats fans, kind of chuckle at their misfortune, definitely makes me appreciate what we have now.
Oppie, last year he wasn’t facing 6 misdemeanor weapons possession counts coupled with the departure of his newly wed wife. These disorders can be progressive. I think the pressure is going to be much for him. Obviously I hope not. But how can you rely on him come playoff time. Besides we need a guard who lock down shooting guards, that is guards who shoot. Delonte simply lacks the height.
I realize he has all of those issues against him, that’s why I said WE don’t know which way he’ll go. I’d hate to get rid of him since we don’t know what will happen. BUT that being said, I’m okay with trading him, it just needs to be for the right price, which this trade was not.
P.S. I agree we need a guard who can play lock down D on larger guards/forwards and that guy was traded today, but that guy was Raja Bell not Stephen Jackson. He’s a hustle guy who has a history of frustrating the league’s top guards (ask Kobe) and has never been a me-first guy.
@8 That article says all we need to know.
I wasn’t so worried about the chemistry issues – I think LeBron and Mike Brown would have kept him in line and he has proven in the past that he can be a smaller piece if necessary, but SJax’s contract was too big of an albatross to do this deal if the Cavs were going to have to give up any sort of talent in return. I think this year there will be plenty of guys available around the deadline from struggling teams with owners realizing that their bottom line is screwed. There will likely be guys we never even thought of available at that time.
Here’s a guy who will certainly be available. The question is whether the Cavs can get him. He has a crazy and expiring salary. But if they got him, they could keep him, and possibly win a couple titles.
The guy is Tracy Mcgrady. He gets about 23 mil this year, then is a FA. The Rockets would almost certainly dump him for 15% salary savings in expiring contracts. The question is if anyone has 19.5 mil in expiring or non-guaranteed contracts to give to Houston. Wally might be the answer. If you are allowed to sign a guy to a huge contract and not guarantee it, They could sign Wally for 8.5 mil, and then trade him and Z to Houston for T-Mac. I can’t imagine that this would work within the rules, but I also don’t know why it wouldn’t.
The rest of my fantasy includes resigning Mcgrady for a more reasonable sum, and keeping him and Lebron together for 3-4 years. Could be fun.
@30
I don’t think a 30 year-old with his injury history is what we need. He has yet to play a game this season. He’d have to prove that he can actually contribute before we burn up our assets to get him.
That BDL link included one of the better basketball sentences I’ve seen this year:
“[Larry Brown] does understand that an idiotic, lazy and selfish flat-footed Jackson heave from 25 feet might be his team’s most efficient shot most times down court.”
would have loved stephen jackson but not at the price. i agree with many previous posters.
Is Minnesota truly serious about trading Al Jefferson? the cavs NEED to do that. like yesterday.
I have no evidence what-so-ever that Minnesota would be interested in trading Jefferson. Just trying to bring up people that could fit the trade situation.
Hey, Allen Iverson is available!!! Griz just waived him:
http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=5036
Uh, just kidding…no way he ends up here, and no way we would want him here.
@32: +1. I normally don’t read BDL, as Skeets is a little annoying to me, but that line still makes me laugh 15 minutes after reading it. Classic, and sadly true.
Clearly I’m also going on record to say that a move for Jack would have backfired. The contract is downright brutal, and the me first baggage isn’t worth the good things he brings, and his jumper might remind people of a certain current Knick Ferry signed to a Ludicrously Horrible deal a few years ago. (See what I did there?)
Besides, it’s way too early in the season to make these kinds of moves, unless a stud just falls from the sky (Rudy Gay, Al Jefferson, CP3, etc.). CLE will have assets to move (Z, West, Gibson, Green, Wally’s corpse) and once the season plays out, you never know what may fall into the Cavaliers’ lap.
I am soooo glad this did not happen. SJ is a cancer and would have done nothing but disrupt the team. He has been a problem everywhere he has went and I am sure will be making news in Charlotte before to long. The contract was horrid and would have removed any chance of bringing in another top line free agent to go with James, if Bosh or someone would actually consider coming here. While I have to agree he is/was probably the best player available, I never want to have to root for him. But I will admit I am a little bias on this.
I am happy that Delonte was not traded.I feel that Delonte worked hard for this team last year ,i angered me that the Cavs are ready to throw him away now.He needs our support more than ever I cannot speak for every one else, but I still support Delonte,but if they keep trying to dump Delonte like garbage that support will be gone
i’m thinking we should trade for gerald wallace. have him play shooting guard and small forward with lebron. our defense would be amazing, and he’s another guy that can create and pass well. he plays all out every night, exactly what we need. I know we all love Delonte, but maybe we can send him with Big-Z, as much as it pains me to suggest it, to Charlotte for another big star on the team and step forward to both winning a title and keeping King James.
I glad trade did not take,hang in there Delonte and don’t give up.You will always have my support ,the Cavs will not if they trade you.
Good news, Delonte is activated for tonight’s game, so hopefully things will be back on track for him.
With Rumors swirling that Golden State is looking to trade Monta Ellis, hopefully the Cavs will explore that option. I think Ellis is a much better option for the Cavs than Sjax. He has more upside in the fact that heâs not 31 like SJax and is still in the prime of his career. I realize that Monta lacks the size that SJax brought to the table, but I would say heâs a better shooter and has not been a team cancer everywhere that he’s went (even though he’s having issues with Don Nelson as we speak).