May 25, 2013

Jim Schwartz: Eric Mangini’s Latest Burnt Bridge

Eric Mangini VaderSpygate will forever go down as the bill where the former assistant coach turned head coach fires off at his former boss.  Eric Mangini came up under Bill Belechick, and then opted to throw him right under the bus with alleged use of recording equipment during game situations.  And since that went so well, Mangini has opted to turn his focus towards current Lions coach Jim Schwartz – a coach Mangini worked with in the 1990s.

Responding to allegations from Eric Mangini, Schwartz claimed that the Browns head coach was “way out of bounds.”  On six different occasions, all during a no-huddle portion of the game, Lions defenders had to leave with injuries only to return shortly thereafter.  During yesterday’s press conference, the media repeatedly asked Eric Mangini about the vast amount of Lions injuries during no-huddle attempts. 

Mangini replied with, “There were multiple, multiple, multiple injuries throughout our no-huddle process, [there is] nothing you can do.  It’s so subjective.  How do you know what is and what isn’t, just completely subjective.  I’m just saying there were a lot of them.”

Hinting that the Lions could have been faking injuries to slow down the game, Mangini was then asked if he would have his players do the same thing. 

“If they have injuries, they need to take a breather or get revaluated during no huddle, I think that is something that I would consider.”

In his own press conference, Schwartz claimed, “That couldn’t be further from the truth. There was no need to do that to slow the pace down because the officials were doing a really good job of standing over the ball — for us and them.”

Browns players Alex Mack, Brady Quinn and Derek Anderon shared Mangini’s sentiments, so the head coach speaking his mind in a press conference may help bridge any gap that may exist between the two parties.  A head coach going to battle for a team is something that Browns fans have not seen in Cleveland for quite some time – while possibly ruining a relationship with another head coach, it cannot hurt the relationship with his 53 men.

Naturally, this may just come down further on Mangini for sparking even more controversy within this 2009 season.  Fined players, water bottles, Brett Favre’s injury, bus trips, and now allegations of other teams.  There will likely be fans on both sides of the fence while the Browns continue to be one of the most publicized one-win teams in recent history.

Fakegate? Browns’ Eric Mangini sparks controversy [Cleveland.com]

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com Denny

    I see your Schwartz… nevermind.

  • MrCleaveland

    What a baby!

    (BTW, can we take the phrase “throw [someone] under the bus” and throw it under the bus already? Going forward, that is. At the end of the day.)

  • Clown Baby

    I see your “Throw someone under the bus” and raise you a “(blank)gate.” BTW, I will never tire of that picture. Kills me every time.

  • humboldt

    Did you ever have one of those days where things just kept going wrong? That has been the last 9 months for Eric Mangini. He is just utterly lacking in the personal savvy you need to flourish in a job like this. I think Tony Grossi got it right in his Hey Tony column last week when he said that Mangini is neither the man nor the coach Belichek is.

    Let him finish the season, and then cut ties with this guy. The hole is just too deep and he continues to dig.

  • B-bo

    MrCleaveland, I agree 110%: “under the bus” has totally jumped the shark. I mean, it is what it is.

  • Clown Baby

    When determining if a phrase has been overused….there’s a process and the investigation is ongoing so I really can’t comment.

  • http://twitter.com/nullster nullster

    Never underestimate the power of the Schwartz!

  • JK

    Just curious.. Is Eric Mangini Vader showing his respect to his Führer in that picture?

  • Florida

    No, JK, he’s helping us to envision his “big picture.”

  • tom

    its like he’s george costanza “trying to get fired”….my god how many more embarrissing things can he do or say!??! what the Browns need to do is like that Seinfeld episode were George does the “Opposite” of every instinct he has….since every decision they’ve ever made was wrong …the OPPOSITE would have to be right!…Right?
    haha

  • Josh

    i know i’m in the minority, but i actually like Mangini. i think he’s in a bit over his head with a rookie O.C., but i think that his “vision” is good. i like the players he’s brought in, and the stockpile of draft picks.

  • MrCleaveland

    @11

    Josh, I respect your courage in admitting that you like Mangini. However, all he’s actually brought in is a stockpile of inactives, special teamers, and mediocre roster fillers. Based on last year’s total botching of the second round, I don’t know how anyone can have any faith that this clown knows what to do with high draft picks. As for the rest — who cares about having extra fifth and sixth rounders?

  • Antith-Isis

    @ 12 – Believe it or not, it’s extremely difficult to stockpile draft picks, clear cap space and load up on talent at the same time. However, if you think we could have traded garbage for high impact players and draft picks, I’d be more than willing to listen.

  • humboldt

    @ Josh – I just don’t see any substantive benefits that having Mangini has brought to the franchise, and he has rendered most of us largely numb to the team while collapsing the Browns into league-wide irrelevance.

    Any new coach could have come in and “changed the culture”, instituting more discipline and trading away the bad apples. It’s the manner in which it has been done, not to mention the quantity of interpersonal gaffes, botched personnel moves, and stunningly bad on-field decisions that underscore the need to try something new.

  • Josh

    first of all, i think it’s WAY to early to call the 2nd round “botched.” WR is one of the hardest positions to make an immediate impact – especially with the craziness that has gone on under center this year. That said, i agree that one of the 2nd rounders could/should have been used on LaShawn McCoy or Ray Maualuga, but whatever – they were loading up on a position of need.

    the trades of Winslow and Edwards were necessary – those guys weren’t gonna sign here, so we got something instead of nothing.

    Mangini saved money by trading down a few times to get Mack, and so far that seems like a decent pick.

    as far as stockpiling 5th/6th round picks – that is where your team is built. just ask Philly, Pittsburgh and New England.

  • Grower

    @#15 Stockpiling picks in the 5th and 6th round is not how philly, pitts, or new england were built..they take players that seem to be washed up by teams such as the browns and put there careers back on the map.. Teams that build threw the draft do it in the late 1st and 2nd rounds…

  • Jay

    I have to agree with my fellow kool-aid drinking, rose color glasses wearing, bunker-mate, Josh. Ten games into an NFL career is no time to consider a draft pick a bust. More often than not, it IS the case, but hardle all the time.

    As far as “caring” about late round draft picks, allow me to throw some names at you:

    Matt Birk, C, Minnesota – 6th rounder is now a solid NFL O-Liner
    Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila , DE, Green Bay – 5th rounder and GB’s all time sack leader
    Marques Colston, WR, New Orleans – 7th rounder, easily Brees’ favorite target
    AL Harris, CB, Tampa Bay – 6th rounder is a top CB in NFL
    Tom Brady, QB, New England – 6th round pick has only won 3 Super Bowls, 2 MVP’s, 4 Pro Bowls and the record for most TD passes in a season.

    If you wouldn’t want any of these guys on your team, you must be crazy.

  • Josh

    Thank you Jay! there are tons of examples of guys drafted in the 4th-6th rounds…

    Many O-lines are built in those rounds of the draft. Granted, most good teams have at least 1 or 2 blue-chip guys like Joe Thomas, but the unknown guys who work hard make up a lot more starting positions on the O-Line in the NFL than the 1st or 2nd round guys.

  • humboldt

    @Jay and Josh – Most would concede your point that Mangini has done well to stockpile draft picks (although it is arguable that any new coach would have done the same thing). But let’s put that aside. What other redeeming traits has Mangini demonstrated that give you confidence in him? I am seriously curious because I am a huge fan but feel completely alienated from him…so much so that I haven’t even bothered to watch the last 5 games (excluding the Ravens game) which is unthinkable for me.

  • bobby

    Heres the thing with Mangini… He has WAY too much power. By Lerner hiring him before anyone else was in place, he gave Mangini free power pretty much. He also is showing a history of burning bridges.. look at Belicheck, now Schwartz, Kokinis.. and who knows who else. Is there anyone that is going to want to come in and work with this guy? He threw his best friend under the bus, and I’m sure Daboll will get thrown down too if the browns dont win another game and the O doesnt show anything it did against Det.

    When the new football ‘czar’ gets hired, it needs to be a situation where he has the power over the head coach. Will that happen if Mangini is here? I doubt it, and thats why I think he needs to be gone.

  • https://twitter.com/dj_2 DJ

    Even though I agree that the Browns should stockpile as many draft choices as possible, (particularly rounds 3-6), Mangini is the LAST person I want making those picks. From his time with the Jets to this most recent draft, I have not been completely impressed with his ‘eye for talent’, and I most definitely have not been impressed with his coaching in New York or in Cleveland. He is also a walking PR disaster.

  • Grower

    Ok, so you named 6 people that were drafted in late rounds that are standouts..guess what that is 6 out of 1,696 players that are active on the 32 team rosters!!! Oh don’t forget you forgot to add our own Joshua Cribbs to your list..Oh nevermind he wasn’t even drafted..I agree lets stock pile 5th and 6th round picks so we can say “We found a diamond in a pile of coal” Thats exactly what the Browns need at this point…

  • Grower

    BETTER YET LETS STOCKPILE UNDRAFTED PLAYERS…ONE OF THEM HAS TO BE THE NEXT CRIBBS….RITE? THEN WE DON’T HAVE TO TRADE PEOPLE FOR 5TH AND 6TH ROUND PICKS…SIGN ME UP FOR GM..

  • jack

    @ Grower
    “6 out of 1,696″ is a ridiculous statement.

    boss, celek, gaither, cole, boley, wilson, smith, scott, turner, mathis, deihl, were all 5th round picks from 03 to 07. There are twice as many impact players as listed, these are just the players whose names you’ll recognize. So say 25 overall impact players, thats roughly 5 per draft who in 2-3 years could make a huge impact for this team. Being that the playoffs hopefully are in our sights in 2-3 years, hell yes I’d like two shots at getting one of those guys. Even if a team, as you say, is built in the first 2 rounds, without a base of decent guys to trade, the only way to move up is by combining the later picks in a package. It’s all moot if we can’t draft well, but that’s why Lerner is going to find a daddy for mangini.

  • saggy

    payton manning was drafted in the first round and he’s pretty good. so is ladanian tomlinson, adrian peterson, drew brees, and ray lewis. but, of course, we want more 5th and 6th round picks – what am i thinking?

  • Josh

    @saggy – well, everyone would love multiple 1st rounders, but you have to pay them.

  • bobby

    I’m confused at what the people talking down about draft picks want. Of course you have a better chance getting a guy in the top rounds over a guy in the later rounds. It would be crazy to think other wise. But how are you proposing the browns get these picks? There are plently of examples of players who come from later rounds and are solid starters in the league. No one is trying to say a 5th round pick is better then a 1st rounder. But even this year, we got a guy in James Davis in the 6th round who looks like he might be able to contribute, and unfortunately due to injury, we will not know until next year. There is no guarantee on anyone being a good NFL player, so having more chances to get one right isnt a bad thing. You never know how a player will respond once they get into the league.

  • saggy

    if you said the browns could have manning, peterson, and ray lewis, i am sure Lerner would have no problem paying them all.

  • Roosevelt

    @ 2 Mrcleaveland: We can’t retire under the bus. It may seem overused already, but the scary thing is, it hasn’t even reached its full potential.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com Denny

    I would never want to retire underneath a bus. I thought people went to Florida to retire.

    Or do they get there underneath a bus? I GET IT NOW!!

  • jack

    @ saggy
    You’re right, but this isn’t baseball and the Browns aren’t the Yankees, so your argument doesn’t apply. Once again, no ne is disputing the quality of players in the first round, just that we’re limited in first round picks. Who on the team would even bring back a first rounder if we did want to gain an additional one? Let’s say we trade Rogers, which would then force a Suh pick. Not bad until we have to guarantee him $31 million, compared to Rogers $20 million guaranteed. So long free agent pickups, because add in another $8-12 million more guaranteed for the other first rounder, and yes, we’ve added two first round picks, but at a total cost of $20-25 million more to the payroll. You cannot BUILD a team like that. Remember, we’re not rebuilding, we’re building.

  • jack

    And lets get this straight, right now I’d settle for league average across the board. That would at least keep us competitive. As is, we have some good players, and a couple of very good players, but the rest is dookie. Overall talent level is raised through the draft, which is why accruing all these draft picks is so important.

  • Alex

    One of the few good articles ESPN (I think) did a while ago looked at the quality of picks. There are plenty of impact players from all rounds. However, there is a hugely higher percentage of stars (All-Pro, Pro Bowl, stats leaders, etc) taken in the top two rounds than the bottom ones. Off the top of my head, our LT/C/QB/RB (Lewis) were all taken in round 1. So was one LB and one DT. One of our CBs is a 2nd rounder, as well as our LG, 2 WRs and someone who doesn’t play from this past year. Now, look at the positions we are ok at. LT/LG/C/maybe QB/DT/1 CB/maybe 1 WR, plus special teams. That’s not a bad correlation. Here are draft rounds of our starters/impact guys:
    QB – 1
    RB – 1 and 5 (Harrison)
    WR – 2, undrafted (Furrey), 7 (Stuckey)
    TE – undrafted (Estandia), 5 (Royal)
    LT – 1
    LG – 2
    C – 1
    RG – undrafted (Fraley)
    RT – 3
    Dline – 1 (Rogers), 6 (Smith and Williams)
    LB – 1 (Wimbley), 5 (Barton, Coleman, Bowens), 4 (Maiava), undrafted (Trusnik)
    S – undrafted (Elam, Adams), 2 (Pool)
    CB – 2 (Wright), 5 (McDonald), 3 Poteat)

    You wonder why we’re labeled as a team without talent? That’s why. 6 first-rounders starting total, 2 of which were drafted by other teams. Incredibly bad, awful, terrible. Out of all the first round picks since about 2000 (some of the oldest guys on this roster) made by this franchise, only 4 are still here and starting. The lower rounds are for depth and potential, not for the entire freaking team.

  • Grower

    Exactly, so as was stated from the begining a team is not built on stacking 5th and 6th round picks.. Sure there are a few diamonds in the rough that can turn into studs down the road but its obvious the Cleveland Browns needed help last year…
    Now on the other hand say we were 12-4 and in the playoffs the past few years then I can see making 5th and 6th round projects..INSTEAD WE ARE WAITINGFORNEXTYEAR…AGAIN

  • jack

    Absolutely agreed they need to do a better job drafting. How many D lineman did we take early in the decade and then send off to Denver? Ridiculous. But at the same time, how are we going to move up in the draft to aquire the guys with a better chance of succeeding? The only way is through moving draft picks, and if we can’t move up by trading them away then we take a shot with the picks we have. I don’t understand what the hell Grower is talking about. What would you rather have than the added draft picks? A prima donna WR that wouldn’t be back; a TE that wanted to be paid like the best in the league, but isn’t top 5 in porduction; how about a QB that’s absolutely folded under the pressure for a team that’s head and tails more complete than the Brownies right now? Glad we have the draft picks, glad we moved down in the draft, glad we got rid of those 2 asses. Pissed the team sucks, pissed the previous leadership did a horrible job drafting. Hopeful this years picks develop; hopeful this years draft sees us move up into the second; hopeful we aquire additional picks for 2011. That pretty much sums me up. Have a Happy Thanksgiving

  • Grower

    Jack if you would have read the comments earlier you would know what I am talking about..Josh@#15 said that teams are built on 5th and 6th round picks, which in turn is not the case…Sure a few turn out to be hell of football players but for the most part they are roll players…I don’t mind getting picks for Edwards or Winslow but if you think that the Browns can build a team off of 5th and 6th round picks you should be sitting in the same seat as Charlie Weis after Saturday..The whole conversation was on whether or not you can build a team on 5th and 6th round picks not if I though we should have traded Braylor and Winslow..

  • jack

    I missed the build your team in the 5th and 6th comment, which I concede. However you cannot whiff on those picks and expect to field a competitive team. I’m not near a pc right now, but would expect that a suprising percentage of teams’ 2 deeps are made of 5th and 6th guys. My main point is that the stockpiling of these picks will help to build a competitive team for the future. Basically, it’s a good thing, which is wehat I thought I was arguing with you.