While We’re Waiting… Delonte West Returns, Movember Movement, and Browns Unraveling
November 2, 2009Report: Jamal Lewis to Retire at Season’s End
November 2, 2009
So, now that the Browns have gotten to the bye week with a 1-7 record, it seems Randy Lerner has decided to make himself heard. According to reports in The OBR and Cleveland.com Lerner was not only at the game yesterday in Chicago, but he made himself quite visible to the coaches and team as they exited for half time and after the game. I know a lot of fans won’t take any solace in just knowing that Lerner is upset right now. Something Mary Kay Cabot reports that Lerner said might change your mind a little bit, though.
“The highest priority that I have is a strong, credible, serious leader within the building to guide decisions in a far more conspicuous, open transparent way. I can maybe defend decisions by saying I’ve sought advice and I’ve brought people in, and we’ve gone to see people — and I think my highest priority is to have a stable figure that represents the voice that explains the decisions.”
I think all of us can say that a “strong, credible, serious leader… that represents the voice and explains the decisions” is exactly what this team needs. Most of us were distraught during last year’s hiring process that Lerner didn’t hire that person first before hiring Mangini. But now that Mangini and Kokinis are already here, Lerner, it seems, will be adding to his top-level executives.
So, what does that mean? First of all, I am just guessing here, but I don’t think it will be Bernie Kosar. For whatever reason after hearing Bernie on TV and on the radio, I just think Bernie is better off in his “advisory” role to Lerner. I know that opinion isn’t based on much, but that is how I feel.
Second of all, what does another layer of football executives mean for Mangini and Kokinis? It certainly isn’t the structure that Mangini signed on to be a part of when he took the job. I know most of us don’t care about Mangini’s feelings in all this, because the Browns hierarchy should have been this way from the beginning. Still, there is no telling how the organization will work if and when Mangini feels undermined.
The bottom line is this. I thought Mangini’s hire was suspect just like the rest of you. I thought it was too early to call Mangini a failure with his early struggles with personnel like Shaun Rogers. I thought Mangini came around a lot during training camp and I appreciated a lot of his moves early on in the season as he tried new things, instilling work ethic and discipline. I still think it is too early in the process to call Mangini a failure, but there are a couple moments where history is smacking me in the face.
We should have learned during the Crennel era that the coaching staff couldn’t be left unchecked. Between Ted Washington, Willie McGinest, and Maurice Carthon we should have learned a lot about how a coaching operation can fail to get out of its own way. While I am happy that Mangini ran Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow out of town, he has apparently become a little siloed in relation to some other things relating to the Browns’ offense. I am not sure what the biggest problems are with the Browns offense right now between play-calling and execution on the part of Derek Anderson. What I do know is that if the Browns had some more checks and balances in place maybe this team could be a little more fleet of foot as they find their way back to respectability.
From the sounds of it, we will hear a new top-level voice in Berea sooner rather than later.
55 Comments
There is only one solution – Randy must sell.
Randy Lerner STILL has no credibility regardless of his panic-driven comments yesterday. He’s the same guy who HIRED a coach universally hated and allowed said coach to suggest and hire his own GM. He’s also the same Lerner who dared do this all on his OWN, without first putting in place a President and GM NFL structure and allowing those professionals to to their job (this after having failed equally miserably with Savage/Crennel). He yet AGAIN went to the Ravens/NE roost, instead of viewing his division rival Pittsburgh and their process in playing the NFL game. Scott McKay and others RAN after Lerner hired a coach on his own.
How predictably absurd this all was and is. I referenced all of the above from day one, specifically in regards to the Kokinis sham and the absolute predictability IMMEDIATELY with red flag of the hiring of ROOKIE OC Daboll. A supposed defensive guy hiring a rookie OC? Check with Josh McDaniels, who was an offensive guy and hired Mike Nolan to run his defense-all things I said immediately. Tons of similar examples, TONS.
This is not to pat myself on the back in any way, it’s to suggest the absurdity of Randy Lerner’s decision processes (plural) and how absurdly non-credible anything he has to say now is.
Mangini will feel undermined when he is let go
Too little, too late.
“The highest priority that I have is a strong, credible, serious leader within the building to guide decisions in a far more conspicuous, open transparent way.”
That should have been a concern *before* the last hiring cycle, when Lerner explained that it wasn’t needed because he’d “learned a thing or two” and saw no problem with the lack of a football executive to run things in his absence.
I have zero faith that he can learn from his mistakes or that he will make tough decisions when necessary.
The tone is set at the top–see Rooney’s Steelers, Kraft’s Patriots, or Bisciotti’s Ravens.
It’s time for a change in ownership.
For all the people who say that NFL gurus like Cowher, Parcells, etc. are looking for the perfect position, this is not true in football. Parcells took over a miserable situation in NY with the Jets, and then in Miami. Holmgren took over a pitiful situation in Seattle. In football, the management is bigger than any one player, so an executive with balls and skills can risk taking over any team.
Honestly, I don’t think Randy will sell. I think he is going to try and get some credibility back to the Lerner name in Cleveland. Bringing in Bernie may be a bit of a PR move, but I also think Bernie is going to get this team’s structure set up going forward. I can see Bernie advising Lerner on who to bring in/let go
It’s nice to see Lerner showing a little interest. Maybe that planned fan revolt got his attention. When you break down what he’s saying though, it is kind of depressing to hear that he is just now understanding that having a coach that is responsible for the operation of the entire organization and who doesn’t report to anyone isn’t a good idea.
He won’t sell.
But I love that he stood in the tunnel and stared down everyone from coaches to players. I picture him wearing an Undertaker costume with his eyes rolling back every once in a while.
It’s time to tear the “AL” patch off the sleeves. The Lerner dynasty has been a miserable failure.
“Honestly, I don’t think Randy will sell.”
I don’t either, unfortunately. He is determined to prove he’s smarter than everyone else.
“I can see Bernie advising Lerner on who to bring in/let go”
Bernie can advise him all he wants, it doesn’t mean it’s going to have any effect on Randy.
He’s been ignoring all the other sage advice he’s gotten over the years. Hell, over the past few years it’s been reported many times that Randy has the (arguably) most successful owner in the NFL mentoring him, and he’s ignored that advice to date.
#1!!!
In my opinion we are moving in the right direction overall. There is an honest attempt at a rebuild the right way (every move Mangini has made is better than an Al Davis move). Not saying its gonna work but it is way to early to panic on Mangini.
@1: I agree – RL totally pulled a Braylon Edwards throughout all of the hiring processes (haha dropped the ball – get it!?)
But at least he’s finally saying to himself, “Crap, big mistake. Time to try to fix it.” Will he fix it in the way needed? His track record suggests that he won’t. But I feel less angry/frustrated b/c he at least realizes there is a problem and is making moves to change it.
wow let me change that to #11!
Everyone calling for a change in ownership better be careful what they wish for. A new owner could just up and move the team again. I’d rather have a team to talk about then lose them again.
bobby-do you STILL feel that Mangini/Daboll are just all smilies in regards to Bernie Kosar being brought on as a CONSULTANT?? Observe man, for once.
The timing of Lerner’s PANIC statement(s) are not accidental, there were induced by the FEAR of facing YOU the fans and a national tv disgrace/embarrasment. He is trying to head off what could/would be a collassal display of his inept ownership-it’s also up to YOU to understand what’s going on and act appropriately. OBSERVE.
i meant @isis
Oh, and let’s not forget he’s just 47 years old.
I figure we’ve got at least 20 more years of this fool compounding his bad decisions.
And that’s the glass-half-full view, assuming he wants to sell the team and take his profits sometime around retirement age. If he wants to hold the team and keep it in the family, God help us.
“Everyone calling for a change in ownership better be careful what they wish for. A new owner could just up and move the team again.”
Pure FUD.
Check out the expansion agreement and stadium lease, for starters. Browns can’t go anywhere for a very long time.
“It’s time to tear the “AL” patch off the sleeves. The Lerner dynasty has been a miserable failure.”
Hear, hear.
Yesterday was an historic game.
The Bears playing The Bad News Bears.
Now, I’m not saying who (Gruden) should have been chosen
to coach the team (Gruden), but Mangini was the wrong choice…
again (insert name here).
His legendary discipline masqueraded for strength and he was
chosen to “straighten up” the team, I imagine.
OK, that takes a couple weeks and a few suspensions, if necessary.
Now, on to the coaching! What? No coaching?
Now, we listen to rehashed Management 101 talking points about
transparency and accountability.
They still don’t have a clue.
The team is being run like a quarter to quarter frightened CEO is
at the helm. There are so few overnight successes. We have to
build a base team and stick with it.
That is why I support Quinn. He’ll lose for a while…a couple of years…
but we can build around him. Why is that so hard to see? Anderson,
although the best choice now for possible wins, is not the future.
We need to quit quick fixes and really, really concentrate on the future.
Find someone who can build a team, not someone who did well with a ready-made one.
Yeah, you’re right everyone – lets kick a dead guy while he’s…uh, dead. Leave the AL patches alone – he’s the one that brought the Browns back to Cleveland.
Isis thinks we should have hired Mattingly or Valentine as our OC, so we would have someone with a winning tradition and some credentials.
Did everyone read that Mangini was really upset with Daboll? No one to blame but yourself Eric for hiring a rookie OC.
@ 20 – Art Modell signed the deal to move to Baltimore on Al Lerner’s plane. And Al wasn’t the one who made the deal with the NFL to keep the colors here and bring us an expansion team once the new stadium was built. All he did was submit the highest bid to buy the team.
“he’s the one that brought the Browns back to Cleveland.”
In the interest of completeness, he’s also the one that brokered the deal to move the original Browns to Baltimore.
It’s not “kicking a dead guy” to point out that this team is an embarrassment, and wearing that patch isn’t honoring anyone right now.
@20
Omega King, give us a break! Al Lerner helped goose the Browns to Baltimore and then swooped in here and let us fans make him even richer by giving him the Browns. Yeah, he did some good things, but he was no saint.
Anyway, it was THE FANS who brought the Browns back to Cleveland, not Lerner.
Steelerfan says:
November 2, 2009 9:22 AM
As a Steeler fan, the situation in Cleveland is just fine, all we ask is that people in Cleveland be patient and give it 15 – 20 more years to resolve itself
Braylon 55 Draft Pick 2010 ticker….
13 catches so far.
Only 42 in 8 more games.
Based purely on the math, he isn’t going to make it. 🙁
There is absolutely no incentive for him to sell. He’s a billionaire, and with NFL reveue sharing, you have to be on the fringe financially and dig yourself a deep hole, like Modell, to have that as a concern.
He’s more likely to hold on until people think more highly of him.
Isis, I agree with you. I was neutral about Mangini’s hiring strictly as coach, but gift-wrapping this organizational chart for him guaranteed hubris and the lack of accountability. This system is structured so that no critical, objective self-analysis is done until the fans and media scream so loud that the absentee owner finally looks up. Lerner probably wanted an organization with a single voice. Instead, he just perpetuated a martinet who only had to worry about a reluctant owner calling. Mangini was out of work. There was no reason to give him this. An organization can remain fairly stabile after a coaching change if the front office is right. Let’s say we hire a real front office.
@20 – we obviously should have brought in Gruden who was fired what, 2 weeks before the season began? No one in the league thought Gruden would be available. Know your facts
Lerner has to reorganize the management structure now, because the dysfunction is starting to hit him where it hurts–in the pocketbook. It’s all about the money. With a fan revolt, declining revenues and a team that is the worst in the league, he has no choice but to bring some sanity to the organization. The inmates (i.e., Mangini, Kokinis) are running the asylum. He can’t let it spiral out of control any further.
I’m wondering if this new person Lerner is talking about hiring is a round about way to try and get Mangini to resign (so he doesn’t have to pay him). Think about it, Mangini is a power hungry d-bag with an ego larger than his belt size, if Lerner all of a sudden hires someone as his boss (because even the GM isn’t really Mangini’s boss) I wonder if he’ll get fed up with not being the one to make decisions, and that coupled with the absolute pathetic product he’s put on the field may (SHOULD) be enough to guilt him into resigning. Just a thought.
Also I saw a hilarious comment on another site that said Vegas put up a line that the bye week was a 14 point favorite over the Browns. Sounds about right.
@29 – Gruden was fired on Jan. 19, less than 2 weeks after Mangini was hired.
@30 – No way Mangini resigns and gives up all of that money.
@14 – I believe the Browns have 20 years left on their current lease with the city. A new owner wouldn’t be able to move the team until it expires.
[…] about it. Off the field you have an absentee/clueless owner who finally decided to show up and talk about the current situation after months and months in hiding. You’ve got a GM who is the 2010 version of the […]
And yet, this owner somehow seems to understand how to put together a winning soccer team in the EPL on his first try. I get the feeling like the reason he hired Kosar is because Lerner’s just dumb when it comes to football and doesn’t have a huge desire to be involved in the team’s day-to-day functions. I’d imagine Bernie will represent the owner at most executive meetings.
Isis is all over this one. There is no defending the indefensible. It’s time for Randy Lerner to be held accountable for his decisions.
just not sure where a “strong voice” fits in…moreso WHO would that be that wouldn’t want to hire his own Coach?
Parcells came into Miami and fired a coach who had only been there 1 year, so maybe it’s possible?
No disrespect to his playing ability and what he brought to the town of Cleveland in regards to quality football on the field, but Bernie Kosar should be seen as no more than a QB advisor.
His brain is mush from all the pounding that non-athletic body took over the years, he bankrupt his own personal empire, and how, as some have suggested, could he possibly know what it takes to make solid business/operational decisions in today’s game, when he hasn’t been involved in any type of professional football program except calling games from the booth since his playing days ended nearly 15 years ago?
If Lerner puts him in anything more than a figurative PR role, that may be a worse decision that his latest coaching/GM hire.
Can we take a step back for a moment and be happy that the Browns aren’t owned by Dan Snyder?
The difference between Snyder and Lerner being that Lerner will admit that he needs help, and Snyder is an all-knowing, and is happy being the pre-season champs every year.
This is actually one thought that makes me happy when I think about the Browns.
GO OUT AND OVER PAY TO GET COWHER. THAT WHAT THIS TEAMS NEEDS IS A KICK ASS COACH.
@40 – “when he hasn’t been involved in any type of professional football program except calling games from the booth since his playing days ended nearly 15 years ago?”
Bernie was the President of the AFL’s Cleveland Gladiators that went from a 1 win team in Vegas to making the league semi-finals in one year.
#38 – re: Kosar – “when he hasn’t been involved in any type of professional football program except calling games from the booth since his playing days ended nearly 15 years ago?”
Bernie was president of the AFL Cleveland Gladiators–they may have folded the league, but I’m pretty sure the players received paychecks. And he turned around the organization in the year that he ran the show.
#39 – “The difference between Snyder and Lerner being that Lerner will admit that he needs help, and Snyder is an all-knowing, and is happy being the pre-season champs every year.”
Valid point about Snyder, and I can agree with that. HOWEVER, I was among the very vocal crowd that thought it was insane for Lerner to go through the last hiring process without hiring a football exec. Recall that at the time, he said he’d been around long enough to “learn a thing or two” to justify picking the HC first and having him report directly to an absentee owner.
Based on what we’ve seen from him in the past, I don’t see his recent statements as an of admission that he needs help.
Rather, I see a reactionary, unsure, tentative response. He senses a fan uprising, and had to say *something* to placate the masses. I don’t think there is any reason to expect anything other than another poor decision to be made. In the end, he believes he knows better–just watch, he’ll show us.
This is not to pat myself on the back in any way
Thank you, Isis, for making me spit water all over my desk. SUUUURE, NONE OF WHAT YOU SAY IS IN AN EFFORT TO PROVE YOU’RE RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME!
Re: the subject at hand, Craig summed up my feelings as well with:
The bottom line is this. I thought Mangini’s hire was suspect just like the rest of you. I thought it was too early to call Mangini a failure with his early struggles with personnel like Shaun Rogers. I thought Mangini came around a lot during training camp and I appreciated a lot of his moves early on in the season as he tried new things, instilling work ethic and discipline. I still think it is too early in the process to call Mangini a failure, but there are a couple moments where history is smacking me in the face.
And, I would point to the Redskins’ situation: Shanahan turned down Dan Snyder by saying there would be no point for him to come there mid-season, because he wouldn’t be able to instantly make them better NOW. To that end, really, all Randy can do to bail water out of this sinking boat would be to bring in a Parcells-type guy who knows football as a the President or something. The trick would be finding that person who is a) qualified, and b) willing to do the job. Exhibit A: Lerner hiring Ron Wolf and Butch Davis running him right back out.
I just need to know that Lerner cares. We never see him or hear from him, don’t even know if he goes to the games.
If he doesn’t care then we have no chance of ever getting this fixed, and as fans we’ll wait in vain.
At least if he cares he’ll try to do something about it. And he has the money to do something about it, unlike a certain baseball team owner.
His contact with reporters and his conduct at the game tell us that maybe in fact he does give a darn whether the Browns win or lose.
“Bernie was president of the AFL Cleveland Gladiators–they may have folded the league, but I’m pretty sure the players received paychecks. And he turned around the organization in the year that he ran the show.”
Ok, forgot that. Valid point.
But in my opinion, still not enough experience to be a significant operations person for an NFL franchise, no matter how disfunctional that franchise may be.
DP: shouldn’t that have been “milk spewing” instead of water spitting?
/Isis’d
Shoot, listening to Bernie call games in the pre-season tells me he knows AT LEAST as much about offensive football–if not most likely much, much more so–than anyone on our current staff.
Actually, it was Kool-Aid. It’s Monday and I already had to clean up the bunker.