Cleveland Sports On Notice: 12/09/09
December 9, 2009Cavaliers vs Rockets: Open Thread
December 9, 2009I know that I’m not the first to have this thought. It probably isn’t even a very original question this week, but I think it needs addressed- could this game save Eric Mangini’s job?
I know there are plenty that don’t think he should, nor will be fired after this season. There are plenty that believe he should have been canned at the bye week. But with Cleveland’s biggest rival coming to town tomorrow night, you have to think that a win would do more than improve the team’s record to 2-11. First off, it might just knock the Steelers out of the playoffs. They are currently 6-6, and though they would still have a mathematical shot at the playoffs, that picture would get pretty grim with a loss to the Browns. The Steelers face tough challenges in Green Bay, Baltimore and Miami after this week, so if you are a Steeler you recognize this as a must win.
Then you have to consider the streaks. What streaks? How about losing a million or so consecutive home games? How about not beating the Steelers since Tim Couch was the quarterback? Winning this week would be a huge boost to the fan base.
You could compare it to the Ohio State/Michigan game. John Cooper was a pretty successful coach, except against Michigan. That cost him his job. Carr had a great record in The Game until the Vest showed up in Columbus. Could Mangini get a reprieve if he was able to beat the Steelers?
The conditions could be right. The Steelers are missing some key personnel. Hines Ward probably won’t play. Head N Shoulders is still out. Doubt may be setting in after 4 straight losses. Two of those came against the Chiefs and Raiders. But look again and see that the last three losses were all by a field goal. Two of them were in OT. The worst loss was a 6 point defeat against Cincinnati. Pittsburgh knows they are treading on thin ice for the playoffs. They don’t want to be the next team that is in the SuperBowl one season, and out of the playoffs the next.
What do you think? If the Browns rally together and beat the Steelers are you prepared to give Mangini another season? No, Randy Lerner isn’t going to take a vote, but the team always needs support. Would it take a win against the hated Steelers to win you back?
29 Comments
They should fire him if they win.
a meaningless win will cost us Suh.
I really don’t think beating the Steeler’s will change people’s opinions of the man. If they don’t like him now, they’ll point to how this is a meaningless win, or just another loss because he sucks. If people like him, they’ll say that its a statement win that displays the progress the Browns are making. If they lose, they’ll say that we’re a work in progress.
This game means nothing in terms of Mangini’s job. Mangini’s job will be determined by one thing – whether or not the Browns hire this “credible football person” that Lerner supposedly wants, and who comes into that job. If that person is hired, they will decide whether or not Mangini stays or goes, regardless of how tomorrow night turns out.
Pittsburgh looks very beatable right now, but not by a team with as little talent as the Browns. Heath Miller and Holmes will shred the secondary and Rashard Mendenhall will rack up 100+ yards catching swing passes out of the backfield and running past our special teams gurus playing linebacker.
For the Browns to win, Quinn will have to throw for about 350 and 4 td’s, because the secondary is where the Steelers can be beat.
Mangini should have 2 more years. I have been with him from the start. He got rid of the slackers and now has people that want to play. It will all come together. Jimmy Johnson won 1 game for the Cowboys in his first year. I loved the way he used the draft to pick Mack. I never thought we would get him. Lewis was the last malcontent to go and good riddance.
They may not win, but they will cover. Mangini is coming back for 2010 regardless.
15 years ago….yeah, it probably would have.
but look at these comments…no Pitt Sux or friendly reminders that their streets smell like urine and their women are indistinguishable from their males. just comments about whether or not Mangini deserves another year.
art modell killed the pitt vs. clevland rivalry….and Palmer, Butch, Romeo and now Mangini made sure it stayed in the grave. I hate Art Modell.
I think Mangini should be gone no matter what, but realize there’s a good chance that he comes back next year.
But boy, would I love to knock the Steelers off tomorrow night.
“Would it take a win against the hated Steelers to win you back?”
No, a win against Pittsburgh doesn’t win me back. One win does not all of a sudden mean we have a sound organization with competent leadership.
I agree with Painesville. Regardless of whether the Browns win or lose against PIT, I don’t think Mangini’s going anywhere. Lerner doesn’t make tough decisions like this, he’ll let him ruin another draft, set the organization back another five years, and then fire him.
As far as hiring a “credible football exec”, Lerner has done every hiring cycle backwards… I don’t see him changing his ways now. *If* he hires a football czar with complete control over the organization–at this point I still think it’s wishful thinking, but if he does–do we really think the guy is going to have free reign to bring in his own HC? Keeping Mangini is likely one of Randy’s conditions for hiring any football exec.
Oh, and Mangini hasn’t gotten his contract extension yet… doesn’t Randy always award one right before firing a HC or GM? Maybe a PIT win will get Mangini his…. =-)
Mangini still needs to go. They could win the rest of the games this year and I’d still want him gone. He has never been or never will be a good fit. Let’s fire him and get it over with. Maybe we can bring Butch Davis back, i think he, too, is s till on the payroll.
I’d love to see the Browns beat the Squeelers. Hell, the best part about this NFL season has been watching the Squeelers suffer.
But no, Mangini needs to go, win or loss.
It will create support for Brady Quinn than it will Eric Mangini if the Browns win.
*more than it will…
Steelers fans are jumping off the bandwagon as fast as Cinci fans were jumping on. I hate the Steelers, and I’d love to see the Browns kick the crap out of them and send all their hilljack fans back to their trailers sad and confused, and looking for their Saints jerseys, but even if that happens I still don’t buy into Mangini. He’s got to go.
I am (painfully) willing to concede a loss to the Steelers if it turns up the pressure even more on Lerner firing Mangini. That’s how badly I want that guy out of here. Call me seditious or whatever you want; I love the Browns but cannot stomach the team under Mangini’s control.
I don’t understand people praising Mangini for cleaning out the malcontents. ANY credible new coach would have moved most or all the guys Mangini/Kokinis(?) traded or cut and likely would have had better timing and a more diverse portfolio to show for it. Compare lists of all the wrong moves Mangini has made against his savvy moves and you have your answer on what to do with the guy.
Mangini will stay even if we do go 1-15. Lerner won’t get rid of the guy and I am skeptical we will get a legit “Football Czar” anyways.
I can see Mangini being here at least 3 more years. I have a fear he will trade some of high picks for an influx middle of the road vets to improve next years record as he knows another 1-3 win season won’t cut it. By doing this, he can possibly win 5-6 games next year and point to “improvement” to buy himself another year although it brings us no closer to a Super Bowl. The guy only looks out for himself…
humboldt-
I think you’re just being pragmatic and I couldn’t agree more.
@Clown baby – appreciate the solidarity man! Unfortunate position we find ourselves in but it is what it is
For mgbode:
Pittsburgh sucks.
Humboldt: What did the Lions do to tear down their team? The Bucs?
I am on the fence about Mangini and the job he’s doing but what are the options? There is only ONE person who has a history of repeatedly building teams from scratch: Bill Parcells. He’s not coming here. Even the other guys with solid records (who also aren’t coming here), have those records as coaches, not GMs.
So the question is, do you fire Mangini, who can still make the case for being an unknown commodity, to hire another unknown? We’re 0 for history in hiring successful coaches. What’s the rush to try it again?
As far as this game is concerned, commitment to the long term tends to melt under embarrassing streaks. 4-12 seasons look much better if three wins came in the last four games. While I lean towards keeping him regardless of record, winning a couple before the end of the season can’t hurt the Mangini cause.
On the one hand, it would be unfair to fire him after one year since he blew up the roster and played for the long term rather than the short term.
On the other hand, he pretty much asked for it with all the dumb moves he made.
But like AMC said, Mangini’s future will be determined by the new czar, so tomorrow night won’t matter.
@Roosevelt
-regarding clearing the roster…the Browns had 2 high-profile guys in the last year of their contracts (Winslow/Edwards) who were clearly not going to re-sign with the team, so those would have been logical moves executed by any semi-competent front office. I might actually grant you that Mangini did well in clearing the malcontents from the roster, but that’s only half the picture; you have to judge him by the frighteningly deficient talent he brought in to replace them.
-as for options, I would do whatever it takes to bring in Parcells. Casserly also appeals to me a bit.
-I don’t think Mangini is an “unknown commodity”. He has been an abrasive “leader” with lousy interpersonal/communication skills in both of his HC gigs. Under his dominion, the Browns have become an absolutely irrelevant joke in the NFL. There is no indication from what I’ve seen that Mangini has the attributes necessary to right the ship. Oh, he will likely continue to do an efficient job purging the “bad apples” (Lewis, Francies, et al) but I don’t think that should qualify him for year 2.
-Even though I don’t agree w/ your rationale, I actually appreciate your even-handedness on this issue. I try to do the same but have passed the tipping point w/ Mangini
I agree with Ryan that a win would probably give more support for BQ then Mangini. I also tho am on the fence with Mangini. If the browns find a way to bring in a guy, that clearly has the power over Mangini, and give him the chance to keep him or fire him, and this guy keeps him, then alright. Now, I don’t know who is going to come in and do that nor how it can happen with Mangini’s ego. If Mangini was strictly a coach, and wasn’t involved in the acquisition of players (daily) then I would not mind him here. That has a low chance of happening tho, so the browns need to get a new regime under way. I don’t think Mangini’s fate lies in the performance in the remaining season, but more so in Lerner deciding if he is going to hire VP/Czar to run this organization.
Also, its hard to justify saying we have a bad team as a reason to keep Mangini, because of his obvious AWFUL personnel moves. I admit I wanted DA in, but he was awful in every game except for cincy. Ive wanted to see Robo, and the first time he gets legit time he gets 4 catches and 60 yards. I wanted to see more of Harrison, and he carries for 121 yards against cincy when lewis was out, and got 2 TDs lat week. Ive wanted Royal and Lewis off the field since around week 7 or so (actually never wanted Royal), and amazingly when they are out this O starts clicking some.
Looking defensively, he’s tried to move a DE to ILB, he’s kept Poteat in there for god knows why (Poteat cost us a win in Det because of that ridiculous PI, and gets burnt routinely). He still wont play a young Coye Francies even tho who showed a decent ability in preseason. Im sure im missing more, but that alone shows he is either too stubborn, or is unable to put the best players for now and in the future on the field. I almost think he is trying to lose to get a good draft pick.
keepem
If the Browns went 2-14 every year with the only 2 wins being the steelers, i wouldnt be happy, but i would be able to sleep just fine at night with that.
We keep hearing anecdotes about season ticket holders pulling the plug on their packages…which leads me to wonder if Lerner will lose the fanbase (or suffer greater attrition) if he *doesn’t* can Mangini.
It would be a nice win, but I’m torn on what to do with Mangini. It’d be shame for this year to be a total waste. It seems that Lerner has made a major miscalculation yet again. Way to make your father proud*.
* It should be noted yet again that Lerner Sr. had a little something to do with the Browns moving. Ahhh…to live the rich life!
@ humboldt. What did Francies do to become a malcontent? Responding to rookie hazing does not qualify.
As far as Mangini, my thoughts at the bye were that he needed to win two division games and another game to stick around. If a team cannot steal a single game against its’ most hated rivals during the course of a season, I would have to question whether that coach is getting through to the team. Or understands the teams history. When you add the national embarrassment that he has caused the franchise this season, I just don’t see how he can stay.
You can lose the players, press and fans if you are a SB winning HC, otherwise, Adios.
As of this moment, and the 16 hours that follow, I have only one thing on my mind….
Puck Fittsburgh.
You can talk all you want about how this is no longer a rivalry, but I say [*Jay Edit] THAT! I hate the Squeelers as much now as I did 10 years ago, maybe more. It disgusts me that we haven’t beaten those inbred, trailer dwelling, mullet wearing, toothless bastards at home since 2000. NINE [*Jay Edit] YEARS?!? I don’t care if they’re banged up or on a losing streak. BEAT THE [*Jay Edit] OUT OF THOSE [*Jay Edit]ing [*Jay Edit] [*Jay Edit] [*Jay Edit]ERS!!!!!!!