While We’re Waiting – Mr Rainmaker, Staff Retention, and Some Sweet Caps
January 16, 2010Browns Front Office Moves – Keenan, Aponte (?) Out – UPDATED
January 16, 2010
After a comment by mike about a “Z pity party”, this is the picture that came into my head. The Cavs are all celebrating the acquisition of a better player, and nobody is sad – except Z. They even made him a cake.
This season and last, the Cavs have been in possession of pure gold in NBA terms. Aside from the obvious (MVP wut wut), the expiring contracts that have been held by Cavs players are highly coveted across the Association by teams in cost-cutting mode. Last year it was Sir Walter. This year it is Big Z.
We’ve all debated a lot about what the team needs to improve via trades – Antawn Jamison, David West, and Kevin Martin have all been discussed in the past week. The most contentious points of debate have been the “little things”, like who exactly the Cavs would have to trade to obtain any of these additions. The most likely candidate is Big Z – his expiring contract is great for teams who want to free up their future finances.
The problem that many have with trading Z is understandable. Z’s a guy who has been on the Cavs his entire career. His battles with injuries have been well-documented over the years. To trade him away specifically to have a better shot at a title would show little loyalty to the man. But, the NBA is a business. Nobody across the league will be pouring one out at a “Z Pity Party” if he gets traded – they’ll be more worried about the Cavs getting better than they would be about the big feller.
That being said, there are also other options of who could get traded – Jacob did a great job of running through these a few weeks ago. We could see JJ Hickson or Daniel Gibson traded away. There’s always the potential for Sir Walter to be signed with the open roster spot specifically to get traded away. Either way, something is likely to happen.
What are your thoughts, if Z happens to go? There really are two scenarios – one in which he is bought out and returns, and one in which he doesn’t. The scenarios are decidedly different, but I’m curious about what people think. Consider this a sister piece to Rick’s “Should I stay or should I go now?” piece from yesterday.
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Photo by David Liam Kyle/NBAE via Getty Images, with Z Pity Party cake added by Chuck.
29 Comments
Chris Sheridan (I’m 90% sure it was him) said the Cavalier most likely to be traded at this point is Gibson. He would obviously have to be coupled with someone else to get anything substantial but Z is definitely not the only option. So take that for what it’s worth, which I suppose is nothing, much like all trade-scenario commentary.
As far as Wally World goes, I heard on Windhorsts’ podcast the other day that he signed a contract with CBS to do broadcasting which would make it less likely for him to be part of a deal. Not that it couldn’t happen, or that Brian is always right, but that is what he said.
Also, love Z, but if it is the difference in winning a title then trade the man.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cavs traded Z. I wouldn’t be all that upset, either, as long as the trade involves a buyout and he returns.
One question I do have about a potential buyout that I’ve never seen explained is: is the buyout an enforceable part of a trade, or is it just an agreement between the two teams? If it is something that can be included in the trade and is guaranteed to happen, that changes my thinking a bit. But if the other team can say “sure, we’ll buy him out” but then renege, it makes me a little less inclined to trade him.
I think this is a scenario where Danny Ferry actually being friends with Z is an asset as Ferry can talk to him about a business decision in personal terms, rather than boss/employee, which would make a potential deal go smoother with no bad feelings.
Z is just a class guy, I can vouch for that personally being an Avon Lake resident. He’s always willing to stop and say hello. He took a picture with my little sister when he was walking his dog around Avon Lake HS a few years ago.
I’d feel terrible about trading him. This is a town where we are constantly backstabbed by our “loyal” athletes (hi Thome) and where we constantly bemoan that fact.
If we trade him and he can’t do a buyout, we damn well better win the title. It’s really amazing that we never made use of Wally’s expiring deal and now we’re on the verge of trading the most loyal Cleveland athlete of my lifetime.
@ Charlie – that’s interesting. I would have zero problem seeing Boobie moved, if anybody would actually want him.
@ Titus – from my understanding it is not something that can be put into the trade contracts. It can be a hush-hush agreement under the table, or something like that. But it can’t be written up.
So it’s totally plausible that someone reneges just to spite the team – but if they’re in full cost-cutting mode I don’t see why they wouldn’t agree to a buyout. Specifically in Jamison’s case, it’s mentioned. Like the Wizards’ FO would love to screw Z over – it’s a personal move, not business, and I don’t think a FO would do that, as much as the fans would love for some sort of spite move to happen.
The sooner Z gets traded the faster he can be bought out by his new team and return to the Cavaliers i.e. Antonio McDyess last year with Detroit. I love Z and his story and think what he has been able to do considering all of his health problems with his foot is amazing but I’m sorry this is probably the last real shot (especially if #23 departs) the Cavaliers have at a championship for the conceivable future so if Ferry chokes like he did last year in not making a trade then I’m sorry I don’t see the current Cavaliers roster being good enough to win a title. Between a roster full of role players not named LeBron James and the tremendous braintrust on the sideline I don’t see a team starting JJ Hickson at PF winning a championship.
Btw I love Hot Wad Williams taking away Daniel Boobie Gibson’s minutes – YES! It’s about time at least this way Gibson has time to plan his marriage and divorce to Keisha Cole while he sits on the sidelines. Btw what has Ms. Cole done of late too? Seems like the perfect marriage an NBA player who gets paid after one playoff series verse Detroit and an R&B singer who is better known for a reality show about her and her dysfunctional family.
My only real concern is that if Gibson is traded for a PF, our depth is nil if Delonte decides to have a bad day or gets suspended by the NBA for his ongoing legal issue.
Mo Williams and AP would be putting in 48 minutes, and if they play like they did in Utah, this team is in trouble…
To quote The Clash: “..If I go it will be trouble, but if I stay it will be double..”
Oh man, another hair-pulling decision I have to make? On a Saturday? I don’t want to think on the weekend.
I am 49% against Z being traded, and 51% for it, if it’ll get us the big missing piece (Jamison or West). However, (& I have said it before) thinking of Z sitting at home when the Cavs are putting on their NBA champs Tshirts, hoisting the trophy and doing the ring ceremony, will undoubtedly make me cry like a baby.
It’s just too bad a promise of a buyout cannot be part of the deal. Officially, anyway. That would be a perfect way for the Wiz to get their petty revenge.. say they’ll buyout Z and then… whoops, nevermind. Hit us where it hurts, make that title just a little bitter for us.
I consider myself a very loyal person, and so while the thought of trading arguably the most loyal athlete Cleveland has ever seen (altho JA Adande contended with me that that title goes to Bernie Bernie) does not sit pretty with me, my deepest loyalties lie with the team…as should Danny Ferry’s. If a trade can be made to improve the chances of this team winning it all, it needs to be made, regardless of who is involved. We all know what the best case scenario is – Z getting traded and bought out (and while I threw out the idea of the Wiz FO pulling off the biggest. backstab. ever., I don’t think that is highly likely)- but if given the choice of a title without Z, or no title with him, the decision is as easy as it is painful. The team comes first, no one player is above the whole and its #1 priority.
I read that Chad Ford chat that said Boobie would be the most likely Cav to be traded, but I also saw in another chat, maybe John Hollinger (man I’m dropping a lot of names from that other four-letter website), that not only can the Cavs use Wally Mxyzptlk (props if you understand that reference) in an S&T, but also Lorenzen Wright. So the Cavs have PLENTY of trade bait to dangle out there in the next month, and I have complete faith in Ferry doing not only what is right, but also making the smartest move. If I’m not mistaken, he wasn’t the one who backed out of the Shaq trade a year ago, it was Phoenix. Ferry will not get fleeced, he will get the most for his money or players. I just hope that the Washington FO does what is right not only in the eyes of us Cavs fans, but pretty much everyone with an opinion across the nation – FREE ANTWAN.
@JJ – CBS? Do you mean ABC? Since when does CBS do any NBA coverage? Regardless, I don’t think a broadcasting contract would interfere with Wally’s ability to get resigned, traded and then bought out. He’ll basically be making a mil or 2 for nothing. Where do I sign up for that kind of payday?
I’ll be at the game tonight in Staples. Although it was awesome, I hope it’s nothing like the 4th quarter comeback game last year. I think they’ll be fired up after that Utah game and we’ll see if the Clippers from the second half of the game last night show up for the whole game. Outscored 73-36 in the second half? As Clipper courtside fixture Billy Crystal would say, ouch babe.
@Chad — I never said it was the NBA, only CBS, who has plenty of college B-Ball. And don’t kill the messenger, just repeating what was said.
It starts at about 22 and a half minutes in. For what its worth.
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/01/brian_windhorst_talks_cavalier_14.html
@JJ – Or are you referring to college basketball? Just thought of that. Still, I don’t think it matters. Does anyone know if he still lives in the penthouse apartment at Bingham?
@JJ – Yeah, I thought about that right after I posted the comment, my bad.
Well, don’t forget. There is always Lorenzen Wright for a re-sign and trade. I would imagine he would be a guy that would show up and try to play for the Wizards, or Hornets, or Kings…
Good point about the guard depth if Gibson is dealt and Delonte suffers another meltdown but I think that is more able to be overcome then the lack of a true PF. I’d have signed Antonio Daniels back when Delonte West was first diagnosed but Ferry didn’t do that deal either. If all else fails go into the D-League and find a guy like Utah who beat the Cavaliers – oops!
Like the song says, “Go hard, today The past is the past you know
Can’t worry ´bout the past coz that was yes-sterday!”
It’s win it all or nothing period!!!
Like you mentioned the NBA is a business just like any other pro sport out there. I love Z but if trading him helps the team then so be it. I would rather Daniel Gibson get traded though. Sure he was hot his first 3 years out of Texas but since his extension he isn’t playing up to his full potential. J.J. Hickson should stay in Cleveland. Yes he still needs time to develop just like any other young player but he is doing it faster then we usually see. If he keeps it up there is a bright future in front of him.
Can’t let Z go without buyout plan in place. Bad Karma.
TradeDaMan!
Any deal we do will involve the S&T options with Wally and Wright. The CBS deal means nothing, like everyone states, we OWN Wally’s right at the moment.
I wouldn’t trust the Wiz to buy Z out, its a shame that can’t be part of a contract within the trade.
Regardless, Antwan is the wrong man. We need a guy who is 26/27 and can play with the Cavs / Lebron until he is in his early 30’s. Continuity is what Lebrons needs at the PF position. We have PG, SF, and PF locked up if we make the right trade. The rest can be taken care of year after year with trades and signings that make this team better.
Regardless of all this Z or no Z talk….we have to upgrade at PF and SG and add some depth to PG if Boobie is dealt. I know some of you think its not going to happen at all these positions, but its common knowledge the Cavs can’t compete with some of these more “mobile” teams right now.
I kind of find the distrust in the Wizards’ front office funny. There’s like two guys on the team that make a big deal out of the “rivalry” – Haywood and Stevenson. The rest of the players are completely professional, and the coaches who were part of the “rivalry” games at their peak are gone. The front office isn’t going to hold on to a player that they would obtain just for spite – they would do it if they have a genuine need for the player.
They’re not going to be petty and hold on to Z just so that he couldn’t return to the Cavs and win a ring.
It seems to me that trading Z is the most logical and practical choice. Since it seems especially likely (though not guaranteed) that he would be bought out by his new team and could return to Cleveland, it could work out win-win. But as superstitious as I know we all are, I can’t really get behind the idea. Z has been here since the beginning and has endured so much to get to where we are today. We’re gonna dump him now so we can win the championship without him? Karmic suicide, big time.
Natty – The CBS deal DOES mean something because part of a sign-and-trade is the sign. The NBA is not slavery. Wally has to actually sign the contract. This could conflict with his CBS contract.
@ Jack and Natty – that’s true, but I’m sure that the CBS contract pales in comparison to the money that the Cavs would be paying him – any paybacks or contract voidance would most assuredly be absorbed by the big S/T contract that he’d get set up for.
@Denny
It really depends, though, if Wally is OK getting more money (he has a ton of money already) and then just sitting around for several more months/years waiting for another TV job to open up. If he sees this as the next step in his career I could see him taking the job.
Agreed about the Wizards FO. With a new owner and a team that seems to be looking to cut costs, I highly doubt that the Wizards would spend $10M just to spite the Cavs. Any GM that does that should get fired.
@ EZ – true re: long-term aspirations. I don’t think though that CBS would take it as an affront if he left for 30 days to be part of an S/T – he’d likely go to waivers within a week or two of the trade and could return in time for the tourney, if he’s proven his worth as an announcer (I have no idea if he really has though, since I haven’t watched any college hoops this year). Even if he didn’t make it back in time for this year’s tourney, he assuredly wouldn’t have to wait more than a year back to get into things.
Re: Wiz FO: Granted, Grunfeld may be getting fired anyways, but I agree – nobody is going to hold a contract for spite. That being said, Leonsis has put a ton of money into the Caps and will invest in teams that show potential. The flip side of the coin is the fact that the Wizards have had a ton of investment and little to no return – blowing it up and starting over is the only really clear, viable solution at this point.
what worries me about a possible Z trade.. then a buyout.. How much would we re-sign Z for and for how long? If we can only get him for the remainder of the season or for one more year at a cheap rate (Who else will play center next year?) I’m all for it. but I don’t want the Cavs signing him for 3 years and like 15 million. That would be a waste and Z would be better off chillin on the couch. Remember we still need to sign Lebron, pay (Dav. West, Jamison, or Martin) and maybe try to get a solid player in free agency. I don’t want all of our cap space used on re-signing Z for a long contract.