May 21, 2013

Antawn Jamison vs David West: Which Side Are You On?

January 13, 2010 by 44 Comments

David WestAs we continue to approach NBA Trade Season, the rumors involving the Cavaliers continue to heat up as well. It’s been well documented that the Cavaliers covet Antawn Jamison and they would love nothing more than to add his services to this team. With the recent implosion of the Wizards franchise, it started to sound more and more like a Jamison trade would be possible.

A new dark horse candidate has entered the ring, though, and it’s an exciting one. Now, you can take this as a for-what-it’s-worth bit of info, but according to ESPN’s Chris Sheridan in an ESPN.com chat yesterday, the most likely player on the Cavaliers to be traded is not Ilgauskas, but Daniel Gibson, and he thinks the Cavs can use Gibson to get David West from the New Orleans Hornets.

When asked about the Cavs trade possibilities, Sheridan first responded with:

“I’d say the likeliest guy on the Cavs’ roster to be moved is Daniel Gibson, and if they go for a home run with a big money guy I expect them to use Wally Szczerbiak and/or Lorenzen Wright as a piece of the puzzle through sign-and-trade means. (like the Mavs did with Keith Van Horn a couple years back).”

He is later asked again about the Cavaliers trade options, and Sheridan then goes into a little bit more detail, saying:

“Like I said earlier, if [the Cavs] can upgrade Boobie and use Wally/Lorenzen to make the money work, I think they’ll do something. I’d say a Gibson trade is 5 times more likely than a Z trade. Also, I know Jamario Moon is out 3 weeks, but it still sort of feels like I’m watching a showcase every time I see Jawad Williams on the floor. If they combo Jawad, Gibson and Wally, they could get a nice piece back. If they added Hickson to that threesome, I’d bet they could get David West.”

This is the first time I’ve ever heard anyone suggest a realistic chance the Cavs could get David West. Of course, this instantly makes one wonder which is the better deal for the Cavaliers to make.

There are a couple different ways of looking at this scenario. As always, of course, this decision would be a lot easier on Danny Ferry if LeBron would just let him know what his plans for next year are, but that’s not going to happen, so we have to look at both possibilities.

Antawn Jamison is older, makes more money, and has a longer guaranteed contract than West. All of these things would make you assume David West is the better way to go. However, there’s a catch, and the catch is that at age 33, Antawn Jamison is still a better basketball player than David West at age 29. Jamison is putting up a gaudy 22.0 ppg and 8.3 rpg this season with a 20.08 efficiency rating. David West is at 17.5 ppg and 7.5 rpg with a 17.71 efficiency rating. Jamison’s shooting numbers are better pretty much across the board. Neither guy is going to be making the All-Defensive team any time soon, and I would argue that their defense is pretty comparable, although West is a slightly more physical defender than Jamison.

So am I saying the Cavaliers should focus on getting Jamison instead of West then? No, not necessarily. The fact that in order to get West, according to Chris Sheridan, the Cavaliers could keep Zydrunas Ilgauskas and only give up Daniel Gibson (who doesn’t play anymore), JJ Hickson (who would lose all his minutes to West anyway), and either Wally Szczerbiak or Lorenzen Wright (not even on the roster right now) makes that deal an intriguing one to say the least. Furthermore, with David West the Cavaliers would have another young-ish All-Star who they could build around LeBron for the future. Plus, even if LeBron were to leave, if the Cavaliers were to trade for West now they could still have a core of Mo Williams, Delonte West, Jamario Moon, David West, and Anderson Varejao. Not a championship team like they have now, but it is at least something you can work with and build around.

If you compare the two players’ contracts, you’ll see that adding West would give the Cavaliers more financial flexibility to work with as well. Jamison’s contract is setup as follows:

  • 2009-10: $11,641,085
  • 2010-11: $13,358,905
  • 2011-12: $15,076,715

Whereas with David West you’re looking at the following:

  • 2009-10: $9,075,000
  • 2010-11: $8,287,500
  • 2011-12: $7,525,000 (Early Termination Option)

So there’s little doubt that adding David West gives the Cavaliers more options and flexibility (two keystones of the Danny Ferry kind of acquisition) going forward to the future.

I truly think this is a very  difficult decision. I can’t shake the feeling I have that Jamison is not only a slightly better player right now than West, but is also the perfect type of stretch forward the Cavaliers need to make them the unquestioned team to beat in the East. If this really is an “all in” season for the Cavaliers, then maybe going after Jamison really is the best route for them.

On the other hand, as a front office executive, I would expect Danny Ferry to take emotion out of this and to do what is truly in the best interest of this franchise. That being the case, I would think he would first see if he can’t get Washington to take a similar Gibson/Hickson/Szczerbiak deal for Jamison and if/when they reject that idea, go try to acquire David West. Not giving up Ilgauskas is the key that allows the Cavaliers to remain the team to beat. After a rough start, Big Z has quietly resurrected his season and turned into an essential bench player for this team. Getting West allows the Cavaliers to keep Big Z as well as giving them the most flexibility for the future regardless of whether LeBron is still in Cleveland or not. So with that mind, I toss my meaningless vote in for David West.

_____

(AP Photo/Danny Chan La)

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  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com Scott

    Plus, West went to Xavier. Xavier is in Ohio. Therefore… CLEVELAND!!!!

  • J-Dub

    Wow, I saw grumblings about getting West a week or so ago but I didn’t think it had legs. I think Jamison would be a better fit for this year, but you have to think about the possibility that Lebron walks next year and we need to pick up the pieces. I think that will factor into Ferry’s decision and if possible he’ll go after West. I also don’t see the Wizards doing business with Cleveland, we’ve humiliated that franchise year after year.

  • Tron

    I can’t see why the Wiz would reject a boobie/hickson/wally deal in that they get 2 legitimate players back and whatever cap space they sign wally too and then cut him. If they were just looking for straight cap space of Z to buy him out, wouldn’t that essentially be the same thing as just signing wally to whatever Z’s contract is, and then releasing him? We wouldn’t even need to trade Z if a team is only interested in buying him out. And I can’t see any team trading for Z and wanting to keep him for the year, since they just know he’s retiring next year anyways.

  • Lloyd Braun

    Honestly, I would be ecstatic if the Cavs got either player for what Sheridan is offering up. All things considered, I think West is a slightly better option, mainly due to his age and salary both being less than Jamison.

    Bottom line though, either player makes the Cavs a very tough out in the playoffs.

  • Nate8146

    My only concern with either of these trades is depth at PG. I’m not particularly enamored with Boobie, but he can give decent minutes at PG. Delonte’s situation is still in flux, so trading Gibson could leave a real dearth of PGs. The Cavs would be one Mo Williams injury from a really tough situation. That said, it would be fairly easy to get a quasi-competent veteran PG to replace Boobie, so I guess maybe its not much of an issue. Ultimately, I guess I agree that West would be my preference, he gives you more long term value.

  • tom

    either of these deals……GET THEM DONE DANNY!

  • http://www.twitter.com/azv321 Amin

    There are 3 things I like more about Jamison than West:
    Locker room personality/leadership
    Effort every night
    and 3 point shooting

    That being said, I think a Cavs/Hornets trade would be good for both sides. Boobie would be great on that team, and would get minutes. Hell, I’m pretty sure Wally would even come back to play. And Okafor would be able to score more inside and outside the paint, since he’s been sucking at Center.

    But I also think I’m scared that everyone’s still high on David West’s abilities from 2 years ago, and not realizing that he’s not a game-changer.

    I vote for #FreeAntawn

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com Denny

    @ Nate – BUT THEN LEBRON CAN CONTROL THE BALL AND HE IS THE BEST ONE ON THE COURT AND SO THEN THE CAVS WOULD BE AT THEIR BEST WITH LEBRON DUNKING FROM THE TOP OF THE KEY AFTER HOLDING THE BALL FOR 21 SECONDS.

    You’re right – it’s a legit concern. But I think if either of these options arise, you say damn the torpedoes and pull the trigger on the deal.

  • http://shakesthesnowglobe.blogspot.com EZ

    I agree that Jamison works out better for this year and West works better going forward. The question, then, is how much better and is that difference important.

    I think West still improves the team and gives us a very good shot at a title. Jamison’s age concerns me as well. I think another issue is that Z and Shaq are both expiring after this season. Acquiring West would give us a physical presence in the middle and I don’t know that it would be unheard of to start Andy and West next to each other next year if we can’t find another serviceable starting center.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com Scott

    I vote for Z/Hickson to WAS for Jamison AND Boobie/Jawad/Wally to New Orleans for David West.

    /freebothofthem

  • Jack

    Nate8146, a couple of things:

    1) Boobie doesn’t play anymore anyway.
    2) Both Mo and Delonte rotate at PG with one of them always in the game.
    3) We might lose Delonte, but like you said, we can always snatch a veteran.
    4) In the playoffs it matters little because they will run LeBron at the point-forward.
    5) No one has a dearth of PG like the Wiz-kids. With Gil gone and Crittenton next they are left 5’6 Boykins and SG Foye. Eek.

  • BrianRut4

    1. Ask LeBron which player he prefers
    2. Sign said player

  • Jack

    HA! You guys are missing the best (imaginary) part about this trade:

    Can you imagine Chris Paul with Wally and Peja on the wings?

    Oh, CP3. You shouldn’t have done that; he’s just a boy, poor lil’ feller.

  • JK

    Amin – Disagree with the “West isin’t a game changer” statement.

    BrianRut4 – Ditto. Good call.

  • Jack

    Amin – Agree with the “West isn’t a game changer” statement.

  • Jack

    With Jamison and a returning LeBron, we are in the Ship for the next 2-3 years.

  • Jay

    My 2 cents: I wanted Jamison, but I like the West deal better.

    Upon reading the comments, I have to agree with Scott. Pull the trigger on both Ferry. Then Mr. Gilbert will resign you as well.

  • Kunal

    i heard that Z said he wants to play next year

  • Kunal
  • Anthony

    I think these trade possibilities are giving me a case of the vapors. Oh my!

  • JK

    Ok Jack, if West isin’t a game changer then neither is Jamison.

  • Jack

    JK – Wrong. West can’t create his own shot. Jamison can. That’s an essential factor when dolling out the “game changer” tag. West is a skilled big, but he’s not the shooter Jamison is from outside and he doesn’t have as dynamic a post-game. More like a young McDyess.

  • Mike

    Was this before or after the Hilton Armstrong trade?

    While I believe that it is possible that the Hornets are worried about their finances next season and beyond enough to move West, I don’t think it’s as urgent as it was earlier in the week. The Armstrong trade essentially moved the Hornets below the tax line, which takes them from being a payer to being a receiver, which should earn them another $3M cash or so.

  • Jack

    Mike, Sheridan’s comment was just before the Hilton trade. It’s much less likely that the NOH trade West now to just to rid themselves of the now $500k over the threshold.

  • http://www.zfcomics.com dgriff13

    Great write-up, and tough choice! I kinda prefer Jamison, but would be thrilled with either deal, honestly. Keep Z! All the emotional/loyalty stuff aside, we need him more than we need Boobie or JJ, IMO.. especially now with Williams #2 coming up big for us.

  • kevin

    the comments about the hilton trade are interesting. i would add that the hornets are playing much better, which makes me think that the hornets aren’t ready to pull the trigger on a trade just to dump salary.

    but if i had the choice (because that’s the question) i’d prefer Jamison because he is a better player, more consistent and can create his own shot!

  • Harv 21

    Like choosing between ice cream flavors.

    Love love love Jamison, but 4 year age difference in the NBA should be multiplied like dog years. He’s so much closer to losing that first step, or being lost for an entire season due to ripping something off the bone. Give me West.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com Andrew

    Just out of curiosity, I was playing around with the NBA Trade Machine for these scenarios. Obviously, I couldn’t use Szczerbiak because he has no contract value right now, so instead I just piled on the players who don’t play. The Gibson/Hickson for West trade gives the Cavaliers an estimated +4 wins. The Ilgauskas for Jamison trade gives the Cavaliers +7 wins.

    So, even though this is all guesswork, Jamison’s impact on the Cavaliers would be close to twice what West’s impact would be. Just something to think about when deciding. Perhaps the Cavs really should just go all in and try to get Jamison and try to win this year and worry about the future in the future. I can see both sides to this.

  • Jim

    I take Jamison without even looking back between the two. We need, and have needed, a stretch 4. West is a back to the basket type of player. While I never bought the concern that Shaq would “clog” the lane, it certainly doesn’t help to add another forward in that back to the basket player mold to play with Shaq (in fact that is one reason hickson was moved into the starting role: because he conceivably is a better shooter than AV. Key word is conceivably). Jamison is exactly what the Cavs need, regardless of age (and the injury history is overblown in my opinion: look at the number of games he’s played the last five years). If we are in win now mode you go with Jamison.

    Secondly, this is nothing but a rumor. In fact, everything coming out of New Orleans is that the Hornets are intent on keeping their core intact meaning West is going nowhere (especially for that ridiculous pu-pu platter mentioned above as the means tog et him). Just today, their owner George Shin reiterated this.

    More realistic option is Jamison or Troy Murphy I think.

  • Matt

    I’m sorry, but I just can’t see a team taking on Boobie’s contract…though he only makes 4-5 million per, he has 3 years remaining, and in this economic climate, and with next year’s free agent class looming, GMs are hesitant to take on long term deals…i’m just a fan, but i can’t see a team wanting three years of Boobie, despite the fact that he is having a great year (regardless of minutes)…I could definitely see Jawad being moved, since when Jamario is back Jawad will go back to the bench (and should, despite his solid play lately), plus Jawad doesn’t have a guaranteed deal beyond this season…despite what sheridan says, i still think Z will be moved to washington with JJ and probably a pick for jamison, with Z then getting bought out…that team needs to shed salary like arguably no other team, and it just makes the most sense…As for who I prefer, even though Jamison is the more complete offensive player, West is younger and cheaper…give me West…however, while Washington literally has nothing to play for and just wants to rebuild, New Orleans, is in the trickier “holding pattern” position…George Shinn wants to shed salary, but he also has to keep enough talent around CP3 so he wants to stay…i still think the deal is with Washington…as a side note, West CAN change a game offensively, he has a great post game and can bully smaller players in the post…the question, however, is how consistently he will do it this year off the bench with his emotional and legal struggles

  • Jack

    Matt, are you talking David or Delonte at post’s end?

  • Matt

    delonte, sorry…

  • Alex

    Either player would be a great addition to the team. I like West cause he has a better contract and is younger, but Jamison seems like the more professorial player. I think it should come down who we have to give up to get who.

  • Matt#2

    Jim,
    Hickson has a very groovy looking shot. I wish it dropped in more.

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  • Matt

    further, @Jim, I don’t know how often you watch the Hornets, but David West is not a back-to-the basket type player…most of his shots come near the elbows and wings from Chris Paul…and, according to 82games.com, 64% of his shots are jumpers, compared to 68% for Jamison…now, I do think Jamison has more range than West, is a better shooter than West, and is a better creator than West…but they are very similar players in that most of their shots come from jumpers

  • http://josemesaisdead.com JoseMesaIsDead.com

    This is a better post than I was anticipating, but the real vote is for neither.

  • Tsunami

    Jamison moves really well without the ball and is the most creative scorer in the NBA. He “bails you out” of a lot of situations. David West needs the ball on the block to be effective. He’s not as dynamic. It’s like the difference between Al Jefferson and Andy Varejao. Sure, Jefferson is a beast in the post but you have to feed him and let him go to work. Varejao never stops moving and scores on an array of cuts to the hoop.

    On this team, I’d rather have the dynamicism of Jamison. And also, he can knock down 3s.

  • Tsunami

    (Edit: I didn’t mean block I meant on the wing, the point was that he needs the ball in isolation)

  • Matt

    @Tsunami- i agree that Jamison is better than West offensively…there’s just no denying it…he’s also never been with a great passer (like LeBron or like West with Paul), so perhaps he could be even more efficient…Jamison gives us a better chance to win now…but i would rather have West because of the age and money…part of that is because i think even if we don’t make a trade (i think we should), our offense is good enough to win it all…if we do, jamison helps us dramatically as a true “stretch 4,” and west helps us, albeit not as much, and serves as a potential running mate for lebron for years to come, and is a bit cheaper…while jamison is great now and is in great shape, he is still old, and perhaps may be the type of player who isn’t worth his contract before it expires…conversely, west is just entering his prime, and will be worth the money (and, likely, a re-up)…to summarize..jamison is clearly better now, as you and i have both said in previous posts, but the age/money benefits of west very slightly tip the balance in his favor..just food for thought…also, as a side note, i personally think there’s no way NO trades west, and that Jamison is still the move to be made, and the move that will be made

  • http://www.msblsim.com boogeyman

    OMG don’t tease me to get rid of Daniel Boobie Gibson and add David West at the same time, I must be dreaming, this can’t be a reality! I had to leave posting on Cavs Fanatics because I couldn’t stomach all of the people who slurped a worthless Gibson over and over so to read this is just a tad exciting!

  • MattyFos

    I throw my hat in the ring for DWest (David).. How cool would it be to have two West’s on the team? Plus, he’s younger…. He’s has a cheaper contract allowing us to resign Lebron and bring in another piece this off season… If Lebron leaves, I would still like us to grab Rudy Gay.. And I think Gay and David West would be a better combo than Gay and Jamison… Plus I think Jamison would require more offensive touches than David West to keep him happy.

  • Josh

    I’d prefer David West. He’s cheaper, He’s younger, and most importantly he doesn’t get hurt anywhere near as often as Antwan Jamison. I think that is the most important part. If we trade for Jamison and he goes down, then we are right back at square one.

  • hank

    all i know its either antwan jamison,david west or troy murphy the cavs have to pick one of them befor the deadline they dont want to make the same mistake they did last year when they had a chance to get shaq or stoudimier

  • http://Waitingfornextyear Jan Tanner-Thompson

    I wish we could have both: Jamison and West. I am all for both trades. However, if we can work only one, my vote is for Antawn
    Jamison. I have coveted him for this team for a very long time. He looks, acts and plays like a Cavelier.

    Gilbert, Ferry: Please act quickly. Bring us Jamison. And, if you can work it, bring us Jamison and West. Wow! Wouldn’t that be fantastic! I hope it is not too much to wish for, Ferry! I am all for trading Boobie, JJ, Wally and Lorenzen. I would even throw in Darnell Jackson.

    Come on Ferry/Gilbert make us a big trade!