Another Potential Reason Mangini Was Retained
February 10, 2010NBA Trade Rumors: Troy Murphy, JJ Hickson, Antawn Jamison, and Danny Ferry’s Decisions
February 10, 2010
After making borderline marginal moves during last year’s off-season, the rumors that continue to swirl around the Cleveland Browns continue to revolve around players with considerably more name recognition. Just yesterday, we discussed the rumors surrounding a pair (trio?) of Philadelphia Eagles quarterbacks. And today, thanks to ESPN’s Chris Mortensen, we revisit thoughts related to five-time Pro Bowl defensive end Julius Peppers.
The thinking behind listing the Browns as a “sleeper” candidate to land Peppers is, as expected, Mike Holmgren. The newly crowned president has quite a history with late defensive end Reggie White, dating back to the Green Bay Packers signing White as a free agent in 1993. Similar to what could unfold with the Peppers situation, White’s best years were with the Philadelphia Eagles. However, White was still able to record 68.5 sacks and was a major player in the two Super Bowl appearances by the Packers.
Entering the 2010 season, Peppers will be 30-years old and is coming off off a contract that saw him earn just under $17 million with the Carolina Panthers. Widely considered one of the best defensive ends in the league, Peppers’ skill set seems to fit better in a 4-3 defense. However, at this time last year, Pepper went public with his desire to switch to a scheme that he feels would better utilize his talents.
“I feel like my abilities could be maximized, and I could be even more productive than I have been in the past in a new system,” Peppers said. “I feel like I’ve gotten close to maxing out in the system that I’m in now.”
It would then be up to the Browns Pro Personnel department to determine whether or not Peppers’ skill set would in fact translate into whatever defensive scheme the team will be running in 2010.
A lot of this rumored decision would also be contingent upon what defense the Browns will be running next season.
As of now, we must assume that the team will be going forward with Rob Ryan’s 3-4 scheme. In this, Peppers would likely find himself in a DeMarcus Ware-esque role where his responsibilities would rest solely on getting to the quarterback. Rumors have continued to circulate around Shaun Rogers moving to defensive end thanks to the play of Atyba Rubin. Robaire Smith and Corey Williams would likely split time on the other end. Given the size of the players that would preside on the defensive line, Peppers coming around the outside could pay huge dividends for a team that could use help getting to the quarterback.
Also in play would be the contract that would be required for Peppers’ services. For sake of argument, if we assume that Peppers is truely a defensive end, this would be even more money tied up on the defensive line – Rogers is slated to make nearly $7 million this season, Williams is looking at $5.9 million.
To add more variables into the mix, the Carolina Panthers were rumored to be looking at Corey Williams just one year ago. Also, the Browns have been linked to numerous rumors regarding a potential trade of Rogers to address areas of need, a freedom which they may have due to the elevated play of the abovementioned Rubin.
For now, we can only look at this as what it is: a rumor. But if the rumor holds true, the Browns can be looking at drastically improving their pass-rush attack, similar to how the Saints drastically improved certain areas of their team during their epic rebuild just four seasons ago.
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(image courtesty of Getty Images)
36 Comments
Holy crap. Peppers would be monstrous at OLB rushing on the same side as Rogers. Either Rogers would be 1-on-1 or Peppers. Send Kam/Roth to hold down the other OLB position o man…
Chances of this actually happening I would bet is less then .005%. Its a terrific thought though.
I’m a 4-3 person to me the Browns personnel as bad as it is on defense is better suited to this scheme then the 3-4 but with Mangini returning that hope died. I can’t see Peppers having the effectiveness in a 3-4 playine a Demarcus Ware type not at Peppers age. The scheme is also a problem when you have a Shaun Rogers and Rubin who to me would be perfect inside together in a 4-3. Put a Peppers on the edge with them and now your talking.
boogeyman- Have you watched Rubin? How many times last year was he in the back field making plays? Because as a 43 DT you need to do that. NT and DT are not the same position. Ive said this when the position breakdowns were going on. Shaun Rogers, Great DT, average NT. Rubin seems like a good NT for now, but he does not have the skill set to be a good DT.
If we got Peppers I would crap myself.
Any way the team could trade Corey Williams to Carolina for Peppers and then the Browns would resign him? Or is the day the trades allowed also the first day of free agency therefore leaving the Panthers without Peppers rights anymore?
Please? Football gods? Are you reading along with me here?
C’mon, we need some players to be excited about.
@3 Bobby the Browns defense actually played better statistically once Rubin replaced Rogers of course there were a number of other changes in defensive personnel too but I actually thought Rubin played pretty well. Rubin was a rookie I don’t think you can judge his skill set yet but that’s just me. Regardless I’m still a 4-3 proponent because I like to see linebackers making plays going forward and backward on the field.
As much as I’d really like for this to happen, I don’t know if I see this happening, but I will continue to pray to whomever is the god of DE/LB hybrids.
I’m curious if Carolina is still interested in Corey Williams b/c I’d gladly give up Corey Williams and a mid-level pick to try to snag him. Outside of 1 bad year, Peppers has been consistent and would add an element this defense has lacked for years.
um…please let this come true?
lol @ a swap for williams and a “mid round pick” for peppers
wont be enough
Anyone actually watch Peppers last year and know whether he is still playing close to a Pro Bowl level? Because he sounds like he wants big bucks over multiyears, and if we are not sure how he will look in a 3-4 and if Carolina is hesitating at locking him up because his “skills are diminishing,” it may not be such a no-brainer.
Trade Williams and a third rounder for Peppers, Quinn and a third (actually this would probably would take a second) rounder for Kolb. Get Berry or Hayden with the first round pick and get a RG/RT with our other 3rd round pick. That would be an unbelieveable offseason.
…ahh pipe dreams
Unless Carolina hits him with the franchise tag, Peppers is a free agent. No need to come up with trade proposals. It’d be great to see him in a Browns uniform.
I have a hard time seeing that much money tied up in the D line. You would have to move Williams and/or Rogers. I would rather see them draft for secondary help and right OL help then sign FA WR.
I hear he’s going to the Knicks.
Seriously, it’s nice to chew on rumors about guys coming here instead of leaving here.
@6, go back and reread the guy’s post. The defense improved because, among other reasons, the guy playing NT was actually a NT. Shaun is too good at getting into the backfield for a NT, whose job is to eat blocks. Shift to a 4-3 and Rogers is perfect – he can block but gets great pressure by himself. Rubin does not do that.
@10, I’ve watched Peppers some, not as extensively as the Browns though. They’re always televised here but I’ve only been in NC for 6 months. He certainly looks Pro-Bowl caliber and plays real well. I haven’t watched enough in the past to compare him to previous years. He’s definitely unhappy with the Carolina front office, which is a lot of why he wants the big bucks. He doesn’t want to be a DE for some reason, he wants to play outside LB, and the Panthers won’t move him or change schemes. Maybe he also wants to play for a contender? Lots of rumors flying around.
@15: Thanks for the insight. IF PEPPERS WANTS A CONTENDER THEN THE BROWNS ARE HIS TEAM
30+ year old, money hungry, position changing player? Red flags anyone?
He was talking about the Cowboys and Pats a year ago. Good thing the Browns are closer to the Super Bowl than those teams.
Alex please refrain from telling me what to do this is like the fourth or fifth time now. If you want to discuss or debate fine but I’ve grown tired of your countless comments which are completely based in OPINION and not FACT. Perhaps you should go back and read what Denny wrote because you just don’t get it.
As for Peppers I’d love to have him but he’s not the same Peppers of years past plus like I said originally it’s my opinion that he won’t have as much success in a 3-4 simply because of age. I’d rather see the Browns pony up for a stud in the secondary or linebacking position. Perhaps Darren Sharper of the SB champion Saints could be a possibility. I believe he’s an unrestricted free agent plus he has ties to Mike Holmgren from his Green Bay days.
Please God!!!!!!
since someone asked….
Peppers last year:
started off season very slow…got called out by defensive teammates and coaches for not playing to his potential.
he took that personally and dominated for a 4-5 week stretch…played as well as I’ve seen him play.
then, he broke his hand and was limited to pass rushing situations and struggled for a couple weeks. he had a little more impact the last couple weeks, but that broken hand really messed up what was a special month or so of play.
now, is he worth a $15mil+ salary and possibly players and draft picks (if the Panthers tag him)?
that’s a tough question….we have a lot of holes to fill…he’d fill one, but for how long and at what cost of players we could have used that $$$ on?
also, isn’t getting players like Peppers and McNabb something teams that are close to the top do? would be sort of strange to see a rebuilding team go that route.
Ugh. In #6 you either didn’t understand or ignored the thing you were responding to. You wanted to pair Rubin and Rogers in a 4-3. #3 clearly stated that Rubin would not do well in a 4-3 because NT and DT aren’t the same position. In #6 you stated that you wanted a 4-3 and can’t judge Rubin because he’s a rookie, then repeated that the defense was better with Rubin in. This is exactly the point that both I and #3 made – it was better then but Rubin wouldn’t be as good in a 4-3 even though Rogers would be better. It’s a rational argument on both sides. I wasn’t saying that you’re factually wrong, just that you ignored the point in the other post. I really don’t want to fight with you, but really, I’m just tired of the Jamison stuff and you fighting with TS. You guys just keep bringing up the same thing. Yeah, I think everyone understands the reasons for wanting Jamison. I obviously can’t do anything about it besides bickering with you, so I won’t bring it up again: please don’t just repeat that you want Jamison and say that he’d be perfect?
Sharper’s not a FA, he’s still signed to the Saints.
https://waitingfornextyear.com/?p=23842
That one has a list of FA DBs. None that really grab me, although I certainly agree we need help in the secondary.
@Alex I’m fine actually I just don’t like being told not to comment on the Cavaliers getting Jamison when much of the discussions here have dealt with the trading deadline. Not only that unlike TS trade to the Browns who just spouts opinion I’ve said what many other people, including Brian Windhorst who gets payed to provide his feedback on the Cavaliers, have said yet I get dismissed. Windhorst said Jamison would be a perfect fit for the Cavaliers yesterday on ABAO on STO and I’m sorry I agree.
As for the Browns you could be right I don’t know all I know is they need a ton of help and for me the defensive line would be a low priority. I thought I saw yesterday on ESPN that Sharper was an unrestricted free agent so if he’s not my bad.
“@Alex I’m fine actually I just don’t like being told not to comment on the Cavaliers getting Jamison when much of the discussions here have dealt with the trading deadline. Not only that unlike TS trade to the Browns who just spouts opinion I’ve said what many other people, including Brian Windhorst who gets payed to provide his feedback on the Cavaliers, have said yet I get dismissed. Windhorst said Jamison would be a perfect fit for the Cavaliers yesterday on ABAO on STO and I’m sorry I agree.
As for the Browns you could be right I don’t know all I know is they need a ton of help and for me the defensive line would be a low priority. I thought I saw yesterday on ESPN that Sharper was an unrestricted free agent so if he’s not my bad.”
That’s you, that’s what you sound like.
/You just got Stewie Griffin’d
p.s. I read that and had to do that to you. No harm intended. I just like the part where you mentioned TS repeating you… Just a joke.. don’t hate me. lol
Lost me on the Stewie reference I stopped watching cartoons back when I was a teenager but I don’t hate you, anyone, YET! 😉
Peppers is going to want Haynesworth money. Not worth it for a guy that hasn’t played either a 3-4 defensive end or OLB. Look what moving to DE in a 3-4 has done to Williams.
@Alex – I think in the 4-3 you could live with a Rogers/Rubin combo as one of the guys has to play straight up. Warren Sapp did well when he had a big body next to him taking up space so he could push. Also, I like Rubin at nose rotating with Rogers and Rogers playing some end on passing downs.
I think we need to draft best DB, then LB then OL. Pick a QB and live with him for this year while you fix the other problems. Draft a LeFevoer or Pike in the 3rd or 4th round.
If Al Davis cared about defense you know he’d sign Peppers. An aging freak of an athlete wanting gigantic money no matter whether he fits with the scheme or not? This has Raiders written all over it.
Who’s Gil Haskell? Any relation to Eddie? Senior Adviser to the Big Show?
Answering own question–Former Offensive co-ordinator for the Big Show in Seattle. Interesting quote from Wikipedia, “He has indicated that he would like to be a head coach in the NFL and even launched a low key campaign for the Oakland Raiders position when the Raiders fired Norv Turner after the 2005 season.[1] That position was eventually filled with the hiring of Art Shell.”
Alex I thanks for helping my point.
I dont know if Peppers would improve even more if he were to get a change of scenery and scheme, but I wouldnt mind finding out. Peppers, Barton/(Maiva), Jackson, and Wimbley would be one heckava LB core.
Hokey Smokes !! A Brown Pepper !! Yeah
What sucks about this is that in just won’t happen.
Chew on this Dawgs! Trading S. Rogers for B. Marshall(maybe give up a 5th rounder as well). Whomever our QB is has weapons.
Resigning Leigh Bodden as our second CB.
Sign Jahri Evans(RFA)RG drafted in 4th round(so give our 4th and pay him nicely). Said to be one of the best G in football.
Oshiomogho Atogwe(RFA)FS 3rd rounder(we have two) as well as a nice contract. Can make him a SS, playmaker for a horrible D.
This still leaves us with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 7th. Which we could draft ILB Rolando McClain which would allow no one to run inside on us. Another bookend to complete our O-line. 3rd on position depth.
We could be well on our way at this point, do you agree?
@ BigD-
You keep Bodden, I’ll take Haden… Other than that, I like where your head is. Obviously we wouldn’t be drafting McClain. But Linebackers fell last year and I’m sure the LB’s in this class will fall as well. Maybe we would be able to move into the 15-20 to snag him.
I would like to see a 4-3 as well. We have the Linebackers for a 4-3 with Wimbley Jackson and Roth. And we also have enough big bodies floating around Berea to fill in the 4 down lineman.
I know this is highly unlikely, but my ideal defense would be a 52. Put Wimbley, Williams, Rubin, Rogers, Smith on the line and Roth and Jackson as the linebackers. We’d sure get some pressure on the QB with that line. Our passing game would be a heckuva lot better, teams would have to keep a TE and probably a RB to help keep Rogers, Williams, and Wimbley out of the QB’s face… Crunching the numbers.. 5 Olineman + 1 QB + 1 TE + 1 Rb leaves 3 skill players free to run routes. With Haden and Wright and whoever we plug up our gaping holes at Safety and Jackson and Roth.. We would ‘automagically’ be a defensive force.
Chew on that my friends
Don’t be negative, you DON’T know that it WON’T work, You may think it won’t, but I’m a student of the game and I study under a Cornerback who played under John Madden. So at least think about it before you tell me how dumb I am. Kay?
And on top of that we could plug Alex Hall in a Defensive end… end in my 52 and have him and Kamerion drop back in zone blitzes bringing Jackson and roth up the gut basically having 5 guys coming at the guards and center. Throw some stunts in and the DLine will wreak havoc
If you have Peppers at Defensive End with Rogers in the Middle. Think about what an offense has to do with Wimbley rushing off of either the opposite side of Peppers or from the same side. Could cause quite a few O-line’s some headaches a possibly a few QB’s some concussions!!