Aerodynamics: Catching up with the Double-A Akron Aeros 6/9/10
June 9, 2010While We’re Waiting… Pro Bowl Vickers, Big Ten Expansion and Sizemore’s Downfall
June 10, 2010To borrow from Brian Cook, “apologies to the locals: this is pure meta”. Disclaimer up front: I am not trying to be self-congratulatory or shower ourselves with praise. I want to put things out there so that we can all be on the same page.
Earlier today, we broke the news that Tom Izzo told his team he is going to take the Cavaliers’ coaching job. We have since been bandied about as ‘some blog’, had our credibility denounced, and been generally cast aside. There are numerous people who claim contrary to our reports. We stand by what we have reported. This post isn’t about the rumors in specific, but a look at what transpired today, and how it all fits into journalism, bloggery, and where we fit into all of this.
All of this began over the weekend, when we got a report that Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert is pushing very hard to get Michigan State coach Tom Izzo. I published this information Sunday afternoon along with other rumors that had been covered elsewhere. At this point, Izzo had been rumored but we had the first report that things really were picking up. Soon afterwards, Brian Windhorst and Adrian Wojnarowski put out tweets that solidified our story that talks were picking up.
At 2:00 this afternoon, we came across the info that Tom Izzo had told his team that he would be taking the Cavs job. From there, Brendan worked to check with sources that he had – sources 1 and 2 that would be able to confirm. Around the same time, we got a report from a separate source (source 3) that said the same. This Source 3 later told us that Coach Izzo was waiting until his kids were done with school on Friday before making the announcement.
These emails came in between 2:00 and 2:08 PM. We confirmed with Sources 1 and 2 by 2:31 PM. We debated during the time between the inital report and our confirmation what we would as a site need to run the story. Once we had three sources, we ran the story at 2:46 PM. Fear The Sword tweeted about the rumors just after DP tweeted about our upcoming story. While we have not talked to John, we assume that our sources are the same based off of his post about the rumors at FTS that went up just after ours.
While reported from “anonymous sources”, we are well-aware of our sources and their relationships to the parties involved. We are reporting them anonymously for the same reasons that others in all areas of media report sources anonymously – because we don’t want to hurt our current relationship with them (or give up any sort of edge we may have in breaking news – we are, after all, a growing site that reports news, publishes opinion and analysis, and is not above attempting humor on occasion). There are hundreds of reports on ESPN, CNN, in the New York Times and Washington Post that are published every week from “anonymous” sources. That’s part of the issue, but certainly isn’t the crux of the issue here.
Once published, there was a nearly instantaneous proliferation of our story throughout the greater Twittersphere – from there, it made its way to message boards, other blogs, and anywhere else that electrons could take information. With the spread of the info came the speculation and the denigration. People called their sources at MSU, who denied the reports. Amidst the conflicting reports arose the standard “just a blog” argument that tends to pop up any time a blog or “new media” member breaks a story.
When it comes to looking at “blogs”, there is a certain stigma that many people have. When saying this, I don’t mean only the established main-stream media. Looking at the general population, many people still lump all blogs together and have a mindset about “blogs” one way or another. To many people there is no spectrum of blogs, no difference between KSK or EDSBS or SportsByBrooks or Deadspin or TBL or The800Level. They may be able to hear “Yardbarker.com” and know that it’s a sports blog, but the average person likely can’t differentiate between Yardbarker and SBNation or other fan-specific sites.
The lack of differentiation is a large contributor to the widespread denouncement of our report. It is a large part of the argument that happened between Spencer Hall/Brian Cook and Jason McIntyre/Alana G/Josh Zerkle this past weekend at Blogs With Balls 3.0 – a philisophical difference between bloggers at different sites. When people think “blogs” and think of the kind of sites that run rumors about Delonte West and Gloria James (for what it’s worth, we got the email that was published on a garbage website 4 days before it published there. I think that it was crap then and it still is crap now*), it is a slight to what we try to do here. It is exactly the same as thinking “newspapers” and lumping The New York Times in with The National Enquirer (I’m not saying that we are the Times or the Enquirer in this case – just pointing out that lumping “blogs” together is an obtuse thing to do).
I can speak only for myself, but I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments of Cook and Hall. We shouldn’t look at the medium of the content that we’re taking in, but rather at the quality of it (H/T: Ammo). We have guidelines and standards here at our site for a reason, and the fact that we do resonates with our readers (and we hope the greater blogosphere as a whole). By not dealing with salacious rumors or over-the-top stories, we hope to keep things reasonable, sane, and reliable.
Have we been wrong before? Certainly. Have we broken news before? Yes. We had the info about Brady Quinn’s house being on the market before anyone else. Scott had info about the Browns’ interest in Tom Heckert before anyone else. We had the story about LeBron’s second MVP award and where/when he would accept it before anyone. This Izzo story is arguably the biggest that we’ve had, for a number of reasons.
As a site we are growing in scope. This past spring we started getting access on occasion to events in Cleveland. We are doing our best to cultivate relationships with people in the business that we love to cover – the sports business. We are doing our best to make the most out of these relationships. We don’t publish news recklessly – that’s not something that we have done, nor is it something that we plan to do in the future. We want to bring you news and analysis that is relevant. If that means that we publish a news story first, that’s great. If that means that I photoshop a fish head onto Sebastian Telfair’s body, it happens.
A lot of great people came to our defense today. The readership community has been wholeheartedly behind us. For some it was instinctive, stick-up-for-blogs talk that came from the greater blogosphere. A great deal of the support came via wholly supportive tweets from highly-regarded bloggers and established media members for whom we have a great deal of respect. The fact that they’ll stand by us means a great deal to us. There are those who have said their mind about what we do, who think we’re nobody, and hey – that’s just dandy. You’ll see us publish an apology if we are wrong. I hope that we see the same from these established “journalists”, but I think we all know that’s not going to happen.
This whole situation reminded me of a great, great piece from Glenn Greenwald at Salon that I came across on Tumblr the other day. Edit: Greenwald included this quote from David Halberstam, on the state of American press (thanks, Alecks):
“There are a few things I would like to pass on to you as I come near to the end of my career. One: Itâs not about fame. By and large, the more famous you are, the less of a journalist you are… Somewhere in there, gradually, but systematically, there has been an abdication of responsibility within the profession, most particularly in the networks… So, if we look at the media today, we ought to be aware not just of what we are getting, but what we are not getting; the difference between what is authentic and what is inauthentic in contemporary American life and in the world, with a warning that in this celebrity culture, the forces of the inauthentic are becoming more powerful all the time.”
We work hard to stay authentic to we we are as a site, most importantly because the community that we have established here is so authentically Cleveland. To all of you who have supported us in all of this, I want to say thank you on behalf of all of us. In a few days, we’ll know for sure whether or not our report was correct. Until then, we’re extremely grateful for the support you all have given us.
—
* I refer to the Delonte/Gloria James rumor as “crap” referring not to the sourcing of the story, but the contents. It’s not the kind of rumor that we’re prone to cover here. This is my opinion on the topic.
162 Comments
@ Ryan S
I, too, will stand behind them, and if its true, possibly like that
@Denny – Be careful when using the word obtuse. It got Andy Dufresne a month in the hole!
I would like to add…. Good morning WFNYers
ACTUALLY!!! I have been mislead by WFNY. I was told there is an amazing hitting catcher in AAA Columbus. BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS ALLEGED CARLOS “THE BIG SMOOTH” SANTANA SO I DON’T KNOW IF I BELIEVE THEM.
Old media upset about new media breaking a story before them using the exact, if not better, journalistic standards they employ. Color me shocked.
P.S. Denny, please don’t be so serious. It scares me. I do love the image though.
Denny, Rick and the Rest of you…. JP14’s Comment (#26) is the best analysis so far.
I Further sum it up by drawing an analogy:
MAIN STREAM MEDIA- Shooter McGavin. They get paid hundreds of thousands and missed this one.
WFNY-Happy Gilmore. You are redefining the industry starting from the base of being real ordinary people who do what you are doing better than them and you don’t get paid close to what they do.
RESULT- They’re scared because you’re on your way to the yellow jacket.
If this story shakes out, you do need to consider redefining yourself as a legit sports reporting agency. Maybe then Yahoo won’t be the only internet reporting source with a press pass.
To further the idea of your poster, the British also have a saying:
The Truth will out.
When Izzo takes the job you can all gloat and deservedly so.
Heck of a job, everybody.
The notion that all blogs are trash that report anything they hear as fact is ignorant and infurating. Further, those who think Izzo won’t leave for the NBA just because he lives like a king in East Lansing are wrong–even if they’re right that it’s the smarter thing to stay, he definitely wants to test himself against the NBA at some point (see my recent post about Izzo and the Balrog).
However.
Everyone in the national and local (MSU) media–folks who have broken MSU news before–are reporting that Izzo told his players he was considering the Cavs job, and most in the room left with the impression that he leaning towards going. Your report is that he “told his players that he plans on taking the Cavaliers job.” Not only has that NOT been corroborated by anybody in the antecedent couple of days, it’s been specifically denied by the MSU AD.
Good for you for standing by your people–but whether Izzo stays or goes, the “sources close to WFNY” are already wrong about what was said at that meeting.
Peace
Ty
I thought bashing the “source” thing was kind of amusing. My initial reaction was ‘who cares’. However, your explanation of the process is interesting, partially because I had never thought about it before.
Then I realized the disinterest in the source is built from trust. Had I seen this story somewhere else I would have thought ‘interesting but lets wait for the full story’. The reasons I read this site make me believe the story (SHEEPLE ALERT) and not worry about the details.
I would like to add on to Ty’s comment…
Anybody who thinks college coaches want to stay in college is delusional. The goal in EVERY job is to be the best. In order to prove you are the best you have to compete at the elite level.
College sports competition level can not compare to the professional ranks. The easy route is to stay in college and build a John Wooden legacy (not likely with modern day recruiting). The tough route is to risk your image by trying to be the best in the next level.
Lane Kiffin attempted, prematurely
Butch Davis attempted
Jimmy Johnson attempted and succeeded
Rick Pitino failed and then settled for college for good
John Calipari failed and is presumably settling, I think he’ll jump when an ideal job opens up.. LAL? Boston?
Nick Saban attemped failed
Pete Carroll is the perfect example of a coach who wants to prove he is more than just a recruiter for a bigtime program
Bobby Petrino failed
I’m positive there are more.. I just wanted to make a point and it got away from me…
Good stuff guys, I read your site every single day and love the insight and comments section. I believe you 100%, the work you guys do here is great.
It’s sad/ironic/funny that MSM blasts you guys when, generally, you all have far greater journalistic integrity.
Keep up the good work đ
this site makes my job semi-bearable.
Stand firm guys. Right or wrong, you did what you are supposed to do, you checked your facts, trusted your sources and went with it. Nicely done.
I believe a lot of the anger vented at sites like this from old media is because they potentially got scooped by a new media site. And that leaves them having to explain to the bosses how, with all the resources available to them, they didn’t have the story first.
If your sources turn out to be wrong, there is no need for an apology. If the MSM, I’m looking at you ESPN, would apologize every time a source was wrong, they’d be the 24 hour Apology Network.
I’ve been visiting this sight from pretty near the beginning. You’ve earned my trust with regards to your journalistic integrity. Which quite frankly the MSM has turned into an oxymoron over the last decade.
@Ty – Here is where your logic breaks down. You act as if the Michigan St AD going on the record to deny that Izzo is leaving somehow trumps what the WFNY guys wrote. It doesnât. The people denying it, especially the MSU AD have a vested interest TO deny the story. Think for it this way, is it better for MSU to have some ambiguity about Izzoâs status or is it better to shoot the story down directly? The truth is you dont know what was said at that meeting. You assume all of local media and MSU reps are right. Just because they go on record doesnvt mean they are bias free.
Muchado about nothing but count me with the people who are in the anti-blog category. WFNY is doing itself a disservice if they cater or think of themselves as bloggers. Unless of course speculation and opinion are attributes high on the list. Just look at the supposed real media and all of the grey areas they work in and around.
Everyone who blogs is an expert don’t you know?
Keep up the great work guys. Love the site.
So you’ve got, not one, but three separate sources that are confirming something that NO ONE ELSE has yet?
I’ve spoken FIRSThand to a good friend who was in the meeting you cite, and Izzo said nothing of the sort to his players. He’s still making up his mind.
And just FYI for all the fans that take this site as gospel, the rumors are coming from Delvon Roe, who was distraught after the meeting and told his high school coach Eric Flannery that he thought Izzo was leaving. Somewhere, the context was lost in translation and people began reporting that Roe told Flannery Izzo SAID he was leaving. That has since been refuted publicly by Roe’s dad and multiple coaches and players who were in that meeting that night.
So, what you’re looking at is a crappy reporter taking third-hand information (wrong information) and running with it on the blog. I’m sorry, but your readers have to understand where you guys effed up, because this is going to kill your credibility.
You don’t have MSU sources. You have Ohio sources. And right now, everyone is waiting to figure out what MSU’s big cheese is gonna do, and he hasn’t made up his mind yet.
Just name names otherwise I can report that I spoke with a friend of a friend of a friend of another friend who is cousin to someone else who helps cut LeBron James grass and he told me LeBron hasn’t moved yet!
PS Lets hope Izzo stays where he is up north. I just wanna get rid of Fred McLoud myself!
I like you WFNY….I like you Aaluugghhhtt
Mark said:
“You assume all of local media and MSU reps are right”
Yes. I do. The local media who break MSU news all the time, the local media who’ve been covering MSU for 10, 20, 30, or more years, the local media who reguarly golf with/eat with Izzo and the AD, the local media who regularly attend and observe practices and games, yes, they all report the exact same thing, and I assume that they are right.
A Cleveland blog who has three different second-hand sources who, by WFNY’s own admission, probably all heard it from the same place, does not trump the MSU beats. WFNY was wrong, WFNY is wrong, and nothing Izzo ultimately decides will change that.
Peace
Ty
Mike – WFNY has tremendous credibility with it’s readers and that isn’t going to change based on the outcome of Izzo’s decision. If he stays put you’ll feel vindicated and go back to ignoring this site. If he comes here you’ll be upset and go back to ignoring this site. Either way, WFNY wasn’t on your radar before and won’t be after so why are your thoughts on credibility and how they pertain to this site important at all?
MIKE IS THE LORD OF ALL THINGS MSU!!!!! HE HAS TEH SOURCES!!!
Clown — I just think it’s funny, because I know the sources that this site is using, and those sources have already gone on record to say WFNY published wrong information. It’s a fact. Everyone knows that Delvon didn’t say what this site says he said, including his coach. If WFNY had any balls, they’d post where they got their info and admit they have to change their story.
Don’t act like this site has some secret sources. WFNY not be man enough or credible to post their sources, but other news outlets have quoted the same sources ON THE RECORD and have refuted them.
WFNY — man up, admit that a decision hasn’t been made and you made a mistake. Because everyone knows what was said in that players-coaches meeting, and it wasn’t what you reported.
WFNY is praying that Izzo now decides to take the Cavs job, because that’s the only way they keep their credibility now. And Izzo is still making up his mind.
I’m on Mike’s side here, though I have only checked out this blog for a day and have a vested interest as a Spartan.
Using simple logic, there is no way Izzo would tell his players that he’s leaving and hope to keep that piece of information quiet in this day and age. If you think Izzo’s that naive, you are simply ignorant.
Whoa Mike, my cousin who played in the band at Canton McKinley High School during Raymar Morgan’s tenure told me that he feels, but hasn’t confirmed, that Raymar would like nothing more than to play with Izzo in Cleveland, because Cleveland is better and sells nicer than Detroit and Lansing I have never been to Lansing but I’ve been to Detroit and Highland Park and Wyandotte and Monroe and Northern Canton (Canton MI) and Port Huron and I personally know Michigan sucks and on top of that the Lions suck but I like Sanford and the Tigers suck but I like Leyland and the Pistons suck even though they are my second team!*
*Most of that is crap, I lied the entire way through there… Except my Michigan traveling. That was true. The point is, run-on sentences are all lies.*
Matty — Congrats, you might want to start your own blog with that information. Because it’s as credible as the information posted on this site.
That idiot Mattyfos was learned in the Michigan Education system*…. what a bag of tool he is.
*Again, I’m lying here too.
I’m with WFNY.
Coincidentally, someone should mock up a pic that says “I’m with WFNY” like those “I’m with Coco” posters people made for Conan.
Good job guys, I love the blog. I’m a frequent reader despite being infrequent commenter. Keep up the good work.
Mike, that was a good one. It twas nice to have made your acquaintance. I am out of here for the time being, I shall return.
This comments section is starting to feel like ESPN.com or even cleveland.com. We all know the credibility of WFNY, and the fact that they simply did what every other media outlet in the world does; break stories after obtaining information from sources that they deem to be truthful. It appears that the trolls that are now showing up have a personal axe to grind or simply have nothing better to do than come here and criticize WFNY. Either way it doesn’t matter (see Baby, Clown comment 74.
Mike – No, something tells me that you aren’t finding much humor in this at all. If you are so convinced they are wrong, why are you here? If I don’t believe something I just ignore it and move on because anything else is lending credibility to the thing which you deny. I think the Mike doth protest too much.
The ebb and flow on this situation is ridiculous. If all of you MSU folks have conflicting sources so be it, but let the decision speak for itself. To attempt to drag this site’s reputation through the mud before anything has been announced is not only worthless but is also a bit childish if you ask me.
If someone from a Knicks blog came out tomorrow and said inside sources are saying Lebron is moving to NY you won’t see me dashing over to bash their journalistic integrity till I hear something from the source. I get that Izzo is an untouchable figure up there I have several friends that are MSU faithful but seriously c’mon and grow up. After Izzo says he’s not going anywhere you can have all the I told you so’s you want, till then stick to your own blogs.
/rant over
Dr. Cleveland — I assure you, I’m not trolling. I’m simply trying to inform you of the facts, and WFNY made a false report about what was said in the lockerroom. There were 20+ people in that room and they ran with a report from a third-hand source who spoke too soon. Believe me, Roe is where they got that information. He told his coaches he thought Izzo was leaving, and his coaches betrayed his trust by talking to a blog. And they got it wrong.
To me this is more of an issue of journalistic credibility than anything else.
If this was a typical fan site, I wouldn’t care. But these guys are claiming to be journalists, and I’m going to call out bad journalists.
Mike = the Journalist police.
“Keeping the world safe on suspicious rumor at a time”
seriously, you’ve refuted the rumor to the 10th degree we get it…
one*
Dr. Cleveland–
Yeah, I’m sure WNFY has a great track record for breaking Cleveland news. However, the Ohio sources in this story–Roe’s dad, Roe’s coach, etc.? It’s all out in the open now. There was a game of telephone, somebody misunderstood somebody, and everyone’s since gone on the record to say that what WFNY said happened, didn’t happen.
ERGO, whether Izzo stays or goes, WFNY’s report was wrong. I’m here not because I have an MSU axe to grind, but because I have a sports blog axe to grind. I don’t break news on TLiW, but every time a blogger screws up like this, we all get painted with that brush.
Peace
Ty
@Clown #74, you nailed it, and your question wasn’t addressed.
My biggest annoyance with blogs/commenters/the internet is that it is too easy to throw stones and slide into the interfog when you miss, but stand up and beat your chest when you are correct.
WFNY stated from the beginning that there is a possibility they are wrong and would admit it. Has ESPN ever done such a thing? No, they just re-run a new news story stating the new fact.
By next week everyone will have forgotten this whole episode anyway.
I AM MIKE THE MSU GRAD! PLEAZ DONT GO IZZO!!! RAWR JOURNALISM POLICE!!!
srsly bro, calm down. I don’t think Izzo would be a good hire at all, and even I’M tired of your schtick. Or, at least be consistent, and start commenting on every annon. tip on ESPN.
See ya there đ
@ Mike – “These guys are claiming to be journalists”. Where?
@ Ty – “It’s all out in the open now”. Is it?
By the way, thanks to you two for using real email addresses and while we obviously disagree here, you’re being civil. It’s much appreciated.
Mike seems to have the inner-workings at WFNY all mapped out. He already knows they had 3rd hand sources and specifically that there was one ‘true’ originating source. And that there was miscommunication along the path to their 3rd hand source.
It’s amazing to me he was able to divulge that much information. With that type of investigation skills, Mike you should really try to work for the NY Times.
Or, are you making up a story and throwing it out there as fact despite no real knowledge of the situation?
stin4u–
No. “You,” the WFNY readership, don’t get it. Otherwise there wouldn’t be all this nonsens about Team WFNY and “I believe WFNY!”
There’s no belief or disbelief here, people: WFNY reported something as truth based off of three different sources who ALL HEARD IT THIRDHAND FROM THE SAME GUY. Meaning, this wasn’t a triple-sourced news article, this was rumor being represented as fact because WFNY heard it fourth-hand three different times.
What’s troubling is that WNFY doesn’t understand the difference.
Peace
Ty
@Ty, they don’t actually complain about missed broken stories. They complain about pictures of athlete’s large members, or stories about where someone went drinking and who with, blah blah meow chow.
EVERY NEWS SOURCE GETS STUFF WRONG. The difference is what kind of news you’re reporting, and how you rectify a situation when it arises.
Ty, how do you and apparently Mike know their source/sources?
I don’t see where they gave up their sources, so I’m really curious how you two seem to “know”
I would like to think that these WFNY guys would have come out and said they were wrong by now if Roe was found to be the source and there was a complete miscommunication on the information. That does not seem to be the case here though.
Denny — reread the post we’re commenting on. What image are you trying to get across, here? To me, it sounds like I’m reading an editor-in-chief explaining the organization’s decision to his readers. You’re comparing yourselves to major media outlets, and explaining the steps that reporters take to confirm stories. If that’s not saying “We’re journalists,” what else does it say? What are you trying to tell us?
I have no problem with blogging. I work as a journalist, albeit not a sports journalist, and myself and a friend are starting our own blog.
Honestly, I really think you should’ve tried to get a firsthand confirmation for this type of story, because like I’ve been saying, everything is still up in the air with the decision at this point, and this was NOT what was said at the meeting. Kudos to you guys if you snag Izzo, he’s a helluva coach. Do I think he means more to MSU than he would to Cleveland? Undoubtedly, but he’s his own man and I don’t have to hold his hand.
Hey, at least all of can agree on one thing — eff UofM.
Mike and Ty,
Maybe you’re right. Maybe WFNY is wrong. Maybe the “fact-checking” by the “real journalists” is correct. But your vendetta against WFNY is slightly annoying. They have acknowledge that these are sources, not Izzo himself, and that they may possibly be wrong. Furthermore, in that case they will admit they were wrong and march themselves to the corner for their time out. They also say, in the original article, that the announcement, their vindication that they are right, may not come until the end of the week, forcing them to stick by the story until then. At least give them the opportunity to wait out what they originally wrote. If they renege on their correction after that, then you can start your crusade across the internet to police against the “fake journalists” out there.
By the way, just curious what organization or media outlet you work for that put you in charge of protecting the integrity of journalism and the efficacy of internet “sports blogs”?
/Can’t believe I’m taking the time to write this… Have too much work to do.
been readin you guys for the last few years. you guys are a very reputable blog, even if izzo goes back to msu.
you heard what you heard, and as a service to cleveland fans, you delivered that information, which is why we keep coming.
i see nothing wrong with reporting it, if you heard it.
and i have no reason to believe otherwise. keep up the good work and ignore all the negativity being sent your way. in fact, look at it as free adversiting.