May 23, 2013

What if the Indians Are Turning a Profit?

When news leaked this weekend that the Pittsburgh Pirates—the losingest team in professional sports—have been turning a profit for the last three years, baseball fans were asked an uncomfortable question.

Is it acceptable for a team to lose games at an unprecedented rate and still make money?

And it got me thinking about the Indians, who are pretty good at losing themselves these days.  It would seem just that if a team loses games, then it should lose money too.  What other incentive would there be to win?  And if there’s no incentive to win, where does that leave us as fans?

Which brings me to our problem: what if the Indians are making money, rather than losing it?  Where does that put us, as fans of a team that we finance—both directly (through ticket sales) and indirectly (through tax-payer funded subsidies)?  Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that the Indians are making money. 

For reasons that should become clear, I think this is a pretty safe assumption.  Further, let’s use the Pirates as an example.  In 2007 and 2008, the Pirates made about $15 million in profits each year; last season, ownership declared about $5 million in profit.  So over a three year period, ownership averaged just under $12 million per year in profits.

In the Pirates’ case where did these profits go?  Did ownership get to pocket the $35 million?  Not really.  According to a report in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, nearly all of the “profit” was used to pay the team’s tax bills.  In fact, “[n]o ownership dividends were paid […] and Mr. Nutting [the team’s owner] took no salary or management fee.”  In other words, the profits were used to pay bills.

But in our assumption, let’s assume that Larry Dolan has made about $12 million per year from owning the Indians during the last two years—that, as an owner, his fee is $12 million per year to keep the team semi-functional and in Cleveland.

If that were the case—if Larry Dolan were making money off a losing team—where does that put us?  As fans?  As customers?  As tax-payers?

What I’m about to write is not a pleasant statement on professional sports: but I hope the Indians are making more than $12 million per year.  I really hope so.

Why?  For one, I’m an Indians fan, and whether I like it or not, the Indians are in the business of making money.  That’s what “professional” means.  They do it for the money.  The players.  The management.  And yes, the ownership too.  The whole system of MLB—despite what Bud Selig might suggest—is designed to make people rich.  Some of those people are owners.  So if the Indians were losing money, they’d be doing the opposite of what they were designed to do.  In that case (like any dysfunctional business) there’s a real possibility that they could be contracted or relocated.  I don’t want that to happen.

Furthermore, the more money an owner makes, the more likely the team can spend.  According to Forbes, guess which baseball team is the most valuable?  You got it: the New York Yankees.  Even more, the 10 most valuable teams have all made a League Championship series in the last 10 years.  So it seems that winning and profitability are not at odds, but linked.  The more a team wins, the more profitable it can be.  So it would seem odd that a team would want to lose games, in order to make money.  The most profitable teams are the winners.  For that reason alone, I want the Indians to be profitable.  Obviously this doesn’t solve the you-have-to-spend-money-to-make-money problem, but it does seem clear that winning is, ya know, better than losing.

Still, something about this position rubs us the wrong way.  Like I said above, it seems fundamentally unjust that a business (like the Indians) that is bad at what it purports to do (winning games) should be making money.  In what other line of business is such incompetence rewarded?  Shouldn’t bad teams lose money?  Instead, it seems they still manage to make more in a year than most of us will in a lifetime.

In this vein, Scott asked on twitter whether there’s any accountability left in a system where awful teams can continue to post profits.

Accountability is a funny word.  In some sense, losing teams are likely to post lower profits (at least in MLB; you can’t say the same for capped leagues that essentially channel money toward ownership), so we are in a system where winning is financially rewarded.  But in another sense, if the Dolans are happy pocketing $12 million per year with a loser (again, hypothetical), then there really isn’t any accountability: they can do this ad infinitum without ever trying to field a winning team.  As fans we can’t change ownership.  We can’t fire general managers.  So our loyalty is used against us: we are prisoners.

So we’re back to the same question: should bad teams lose money?  More specifically: should the Indians be losing money?

In a perfect world, perhaps so: they should be punished.  But in this world?  No.  Because if the Indians lose money, they might go under.  They would go bankrupt.  They would likely cease to exist.  We like to think of an owner who loses money shaping up, spending to build a winner, and turning everything around.  But that’s not the way it works: when real business owners lose money, they close their businesses.  It’s as simple as that.  You don’t operate a business that is fundamentally unprofitable.

To prevent this from happening, MLB has certain rules in place—revenue sharing comes to mind—that serve to keep teams afloat, even when they lose games (and fans).  From MLB’s perspective, it is not acceptable to allow its assets (its teams) to wither and die, so the system enables all teams to make money, whether they win or not.  It’s just a matter of degree.

This might disgust you.  In some ways, it disgusts me.*  On the other hand, I want the Indians to exist long enough to win again.  I believe that the front office wants to win, and has a plan.  Call me foolish.  I’ve been called worse.

*I should say here that nothing disgusts me more than tax-payer funded stadia.  I don’t buy, not for a second, that a professional sports team pays its tax-payers back by simply selling tickets and foam fingers. It’s one thing to use fans (who, in my mind, are customers) to make money.  It’s another thing to use everyone in a given city or state—often against their will. People who don’t like baseball should not be forced into funding something they fundamentally do not care about.  If you don’t believe me, read this.

And so yes, I hope the Indians are making more than $12 million per year.  The fact the Pirates “only” made $5 million last season would scare the bejeezus out of me were I a Pittsburgh fan.  That’s about how much money than Jhonny Peralta made this year: they’re barely able to pay their taxes.

Is any of this just?  No it isn’t.  But nobody ever said being a sports fan has much justice to it.  We can certainly wish it were otherwise.  We can gnash our teeth about the inequities of the sports world.  We can even stop buying tickets to send a message.  But what I want is for the Cleveland Indians to succeed in a system that makes it difficult to do so.  And, as much I have to say it through clenched teeth, that means that I want them to make money.

  • Jason

    Nice article, Jon.

    I completely agree with you. The last time a top-tier Cleveland team wasn’t making enough money, they left town for Baltimore.

    Of course, then there’s the Force/Crunch…

  • http://www.twitter.com/boxoflewine Eli

    For the Indians and the Pirates, its less about “making a profit” and more about trading away “expensive” assets for vastly cheaper ones and then, instead of refilling the talent with a few mid-level assets, pocketing the difference. Down the road, they then make the “best” offer they can to rising talent and very frequently get outbid.

    Many of us work for companies, and I doubt that we’d like to see these companies losing money and possibly heading for hard times. However, when the company fires a few people in the name of trying to reach a better bottom line, and the result isn’t just about breaking even but an increase in take home income for those in leadership, it is absolutely infuriating.

    The problem I have here isn’t the Tribe making a profit, it is the fact that it looks like that very little of that profit will be reinvested in creating a stable and successful organization. I know we signed almost all our important draft picks, and that is certainly a start, but it will take several more years before I believe the organization is committed financially to real winning baseball.

  • Sean

    Do the Dolans have a right to pocket the profits from a losing ballclub? Absolutely. This is a free market economy after all. However, is it a smart thing to not plow the profits back into the organization? Not really. But do we know the Dolans are just pocketing the profits? It’s very possible they are doing just that. It may not be spent in the most efficient way, though. Bottom line is that while the Indians may or may not be losing money, the current team doesn’t look like they will be contenders any time soon. And that plain fact is just a shame.

  • oribiasi

    If the Cleveland Indians are making a profit then clearly the recession is over.

  • http://www.whitecollarredneck.com Narm

    No one seems to care about the Browns making a ton of money for their product.

    If losing games meant losing money, there would be no professional sports. Owners don’t own because they are fans – they own because they want to make money. If only a handful of teams ever made money, no one would buy teams.

    We are actually lucky that the Dolan’s ARE fans. They refuse to move the team. A lot of owners purchase teams without any sort of affiliation other than making money.

    Our budget is tiny now, but in 2008, coming off an ALCS appearance, we were 16th in payroll and 22nd in attendance. They saw that spending money on FA didn’t put fans in seats so they blew up the team and are going to build through the draft. Do you blame them?

    Even if the Dolans are making a slight profit (BTW, this is America and I struggle to blame any businessperson for turning a profit – I highly doubt they are raking it in) I know that they will never look for greener pastures and more money elsewhere. They want the team in Cleveland.

    If you are very anti-Dolan I would look at it this way: we can lose in Cleveland or move and win somewhere else.

  • MrCleaveland

    I don’t get it. If the Pirates used all their “profit” to pay their taxes, then they really didn’t make a profit at all, did they?

    I hope the Indians are making money.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com DP

    I thought rich people did all their banking in Switzerland and the Cayman Islands so they didn’t have to pay taxes.

  • Joe

    How could they not be making a profit….? $5.00 Nachos? $7.25 Beer!? Seven twenty five!? I would be interested to see the financials at the end of the year to know what the revenue from concessions alone is. Considering it, ticket prices, a cable network with sold advertising and a payroll of app $25-$27mil (am I right about that)? How could they not make a profit? Finally, if he (Dolan) wasn’t making a profit, he wouldn’t be in the business.

  • 216in614

    its simple math. in order to have a team like the yankess/tampa bay to have .600 records you need some teams to have .300/.400 records. without cleveland/baltimore/kc they yankess could not exists. so while they yankees make a ton of money they wouldnt be able to if there were no teams for them to develop their elite free agents and play against.

    so since everyone cant win (for every winner there must be a loser) i think it is essential that losers make money too.

  • mike

    all this talk about profits and revenue-spending, etc. is all relative. and yes, the owners have every right in the US to pocket whatever profit they see is fit.
    i just recently read somewhere – and i cant remember where – that discussed the percentage of revenues that MLB teams spent on player salaries. according to the report, the indians spent just over 50% of their revenue on player salaries. the yankees, for sake of comparison, had spent just a percentage point or two higher than the indians on salaries. the point of course being that (1) the yankees (being a financial juggernaut) and the indians (being a poor small market team) spent essentially equal percentages of their respective revenues on player salaries, and (2) the yankees’ revenues are obviously significantly greater than most other teams. at the end of the day, until MLB fixes its broken system, it is useless to cry and complain about teams like the indians, pirates, etc. “pocketing profits” or “not spending enough on salaries.”

  • CLEFAN4LIFE

    “If you are very anti-Dolan I would look at it this way: we can lose in Cleveland or move and win somewhere else.”

    A delusional statement at best and exactly what owners like the Dolans want you to think.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com DP

    A delusional statement at best and exactly what owners like the Dolans want you to think.

    Sincerely,
    Art Modell

  • mgbode

    Pirates get revenue sharing. I don’t know if the Indians will qualify this year, but we have not qualified in recent seasons for it. Pirates payrolls have been about 1/2 the Indians payrolls.

    tons of people put the Tribe in the same boat. Bottom half of league spenders – yes. Poor draft track record with Shapiro before Grant took over – yes. Signed the wrong guys longterm and wasted the bigger FA money this last time around (Westbrook, Hafner, Peralta, Wood) – definitely.

    But, Pirates level bad ownership? Not even close.

  • Alex

    I am not a communist, HOWEVER if Dolan does anything but break even after bills and taxes i would be FURIOUS at him and borderline want to riot at jaccobs field.

  • mike

    why be furious at dolan for making a profit? i think we could assume any profits would be in line with those of the pirates. so if they make $10-15million in profits in a year, what good would it do to put that money into player salary? its not like that extra money separates the indians payroll from the yankees or redsox. i can see being livid if Dolan was pocketing $50million+ per season in profits, but that it just not the case here.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/ Rick

    SIDENOTE to actual discussion:

    Anyone with photoshop skills interested in lending a hand I would appreciate it. Email me- rick@waitingfornextyear.com

    Continue discussion.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com Jon

    @ MrCleaveland #6:

    Operating income (or “operating profit”) are earnings BEFORE tax or interest. They don’t break out all the tax payments in the financial documents, but when grilled by reporters, that was the explanation. Check the link in the piece.

    If anyone is interested in the more detail on these leaks and what they mean, check this link: http://bit.ly/bx5CgG

    One more thing: there’s another team (in addition to the Pirates, Mariners, Rays, Angels, and Marlins) whose financial documents have been released. But they’re not in PDF form yet, so we don’t know who it will be. We should find out soon, and I’m hoping it’s the Indians. More on this as it develops.

  • http://www.whitecollarredneck.com Narm

    Why should the owners be forced to take a loss so we can sign free agents to giant contracts. Shouldn’t the players be just as much to blame for leaving for higher contracts?

    Why is it a business to players, but owners owe us something?

  • Roosevelt

    I totally agree that teams should be making money, and that’s the case even when they stink. No business ever plans to lose money going in, because existence is not viable under those circumstances. Even businesses that regularly operate in the red do so after paying salaries to the owner/CEO that justify staying in business (a scenario that doesn’t seem to be the case in Pitt.

    But I don’t for one second take reports of teams’ financials at face value. Yeah, the team claims XYZ loss which is more than ABC. But what are they NOT counting? What advertising profits are received under a different entity? What other money does the arena generate for the team’s owner? What loss does the owner need to report this year, so that he can avoid taxes on his personal wealth?

    Teams are owned by successful businesspeople who, until proven otherwise, are looking to profit. They’re not doing anyone any favors. Not the Yankees, and not the Pirates.

  • SxDx

    Assuming Dolans profits are in the 10-15 million range, if hes even turning a profit at all, 10-15 million is pocket change in baseball. If you want them to use that 10-15 million in free agency, that kind of money these days will get you a Chone Figgins and a Carlos Silva. Is that going to get us back in the pennant race? Ehh, I doubt it. To their credit though, the Tribe did just spend a record amount of money on draft signings, so at least they have seemingly turned over a new leaf in that regard.

    The deck is stacked against the Indians right now. What we had in the 90s was a perfect storm for the franchise and will never happen again. As soon as the Brownies came back, interest in the Tribe began to dwindle. As soon as LeBron showed up, it plummeted. And you cant say that building a winner will automatically solve attendance problems. In 2005 we won 93 games and finished 12th in attendance, barely drew 2 million fans. In 2007 we won the Central and finished tied with the Sox for the best overall record in baseball. Our attendance that year? 9th in the A.L. with 2.2 million. And to think this team used to draw 3 million + every year. That is a huge dropoff in attendance that cannot be blamed entirely on the Dolans. The Browns, The Cavs and yes the economy all contributed to that. For as much as everyone loves Dick Jacobs, he saw the writing on the wall and wisely sold the team while it was still very profitable. He got out of the game before he started losing money and before he could be vilified by the city of Cleveland.

    I dont agree with a lot of the moves management has made in recent years, and yes its frustrating and depressing to see All Star players get traded away for prospects. But until baseball changes its ways and implements a salary cap, I dont know what else the Indians are supposed to do besides play the “Money Ball” card and try to build with young, inexpensive players.

  • MattyFos

    Profit does not equal a bad thing.

  • Charles

    Why should the Indians, or anyone, lose money in a year they know they won’t make the playoffs? Why should the Indians spend that 10-15 million on players that will get them from 65-70 wins to 70-75? Teams should be saving money in down years, and then be willing to operate at a loss for a year or two by spending on the most inefficient form of player acquisition in the league, free agency, when they are a borderline playoff team. Which, in fact, is what the Indians did the last two years. They upped payroll and operated at a loss (according to the reports, albeit they weren’t external reports) because they thought they had a chance at the playoffs. Operating at a break-even doesn’t put the Indians in the playoffs, and likely doesn’t even get them to .500, and doesn’t put more fans in the seats. The Indians did what they should, fill any holes on the roster with guys like Kearns and Duncan, and devote more money to the draft.

  • Tommy

    I think the real story is being missed here. It’s not a problem that the Pirates are making money. The scary part is the quotes from the economists that say they would most likely make LESS money if they tried to substantially improve the team.

    Now I don’t know who those economists are, or how much they really understand the game and how the MLB system works, so I think its fair to be skeptical. But if the system is set up so that teams actually have some incentives to lose than that is a serious problem.

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