While We’re Waiting…Who Do You Trust, BCS Bowls, and Sports Talk
November 2, 2010The Requisite Post About the Indians Drafting Tim Lincecum
November 2, 2010
I have avoided this topic for as long as possible (thanks, bye week!) because I really wanted to think about it and not just react. Â Finally, with the Browns getting ready for New England I wanted to touch on the Browns’ QBs to the delight and dismay of half the audience, depending on who you are.
It is my mantra, and I will say it again, that there is no quarterback controversy.  The Browns and the QB position are in a state of flux and will continue to be from this point until the end of the season.  That doesn’t have to be a negative thing.  As long as the Browns are getting a competent level of play out of the position in general, then there are no bad decisions. Â
Let’s go over this player by player.
Jake Delhomme is first. Â Would it truly surprise you if we haven’t seen the last of Jake Delhomme taking snaps for the Browns this season? Â Obviously, the dude hasn’t been healthy in what seems like forever. Â If and when Jake Delhomme gets healthy enough to play, it won’t surprise me if he is given a chance to perform one more time for the Cleveland Browns. Â Out of all the options on the roster this season, the thinking has to be that technically he is most capable of producing at the highest level. Â He hasn’t done it in a while, and as far as Browns fans know, it was an aberration in the pre-season. Â But, the track record is there if he can exorcise those demons of the past. Â After the Tampa game we all understandably have our doubts, but so what?
The problem won’t be if Delhomme gets another shot when healthy this season. Â Just have faith that if he doesn’t produce that the Browns will certainly feel comfortable in pulling the plug once and for all.
I know Delhomme is the least popular choice amongst Browns fans this second, but that will change in an instant if he leads the Browns on a scoring drive over 50 yards that includes at least one pass. Â The potential negatives of Delhomme playing are that he blows a game by himself before the Browns pull the plug, or the opportunity cost in developing Colt McCoy.
Speaking of Colt McCoy, he has done a nice job of not committing turnovers. Â He has impressed pretty much everyone I know with the asterisk “for a rookie third rounder.” Â McCoy has faced some pretty stiff competition so far this season and he hasn’t lost any of the games for the Browns by my assessment. Â Then again, that is also his biggest bragging point in the victory versus New Orleans. Â He didn’t do anything to lose it. Â Colt McCoy was meant to ride the bench and watch this season. Â It isn’t a bad way for a young quarterback to learn either. Â That plan was good enough for Mike Holmgren, Eric Mangini and most of the rest of us heading into this season. Â For every quarterback that has developed into a front line NFL starter by being thrust into action like Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco, there are a few more that learned by watching for a bit.
I know we are all impatient and “want to see what we have” in McCoy, but don’t be in such a rush. Â The Browns know they have a rookie who is capable of dealing with the pressure of real live NFL action. Â We know he can manage a limited gameplan, command the huddle and not give the game away with interceptions. Â Or at least we think we know this. Â Isn’t that really all you need to know about a third rounder after their rookie season?
Seneca Wallace is next up and his situation is the most difficult of the three. Â Assuming all three quarterbacks end up getting healthy at the same time, I can’t see a situation where it makes sense to play Wallace with the emergence of McCoy. Â I know there are at least a few of you out there that are still hoping Seneca Wallace can be a starter in this league. Â Given the time and track record, hope seems to be about all you have 
left. Â I know Wallace has had some flashes, but unfortunately, I just see him as the odd man out. Â Out of all three quarterbacks, he is the perfect one to be the backup regardless of who starts. Â If you are going to go with development and hope as your goal, why not go with Colt McCoy? Â Again, if McCoy and Delhomme can’t do it, I won’t find it controversial to see Seneca Wallace back in there attempting to do the improbable and become a frontline NFL starter.
That brings me to the conclusion. Â No matter what the Browns do at QB for the rest of the season, it doesn’t matter. Â Nothing I even said above matters. Â It is just my opinion right now. Â As long as the Browns play a healthy guy and don’t allow any of the three guys to kill them repeatedly, it is a fine move. Â I can make arguments for the Browns to start each player right now and not necessarily be wrong with any of the arguments. Â Obviously the situation is fluid and subject to change as always.
It seems like the Browns are most likely going to give Colt McCoy another start this week with the continuing health problems of Seneca Wallace and Jake Delhomme. Â But assuming all three QBs are 100% by gametime, the Browns just need to play the guy who gives them the best chance to win and analyze it week by week.
This should only be a “nightmare” for fantasy football players in leagues so deep that they have to worry about Browns quarterbacks. Â Other than that, I would just support whoever gets put out there and hope for wins. Â Don’t sit there and pretend like you are prescient enough to just know the answer. Â You can guess like everyone else and then come back here and say “I told you so!” in the future if you want, but just because you can say it now with confidence doesn’t mean you really know anything. Â It does mean that you are a good guesser and you wasted a good guess on the Browns’ QB situation rather than a lottery ticket or something.
And if it turns out not to be Colt McCoy, don’t worry so much about stunting his potential growth. Â He can learn holding the clipboard too as long as the guy on the field is doing positive things. Â That, I can guarantee you.
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(Images via Associated Press)
49 Comments
After watching Delhomme hobble through the Atlanta game, I would have to say Colt is the best answer to the QB question. If Jake is not 100%, you can’t play him because he does not have the ability to escape pressure. As for Seneca, I still think he should be the steady backup and “change of pace”/cyclone package QB.
Jake and Seneca both threw bad picks that led to easy points when they got their chance. Colt has managed to limit the damage against tough competition. He had a lot of help from the defense and special teams against New Orleans, but at least he didn’t throw the devastating pick to swing the momentum.
I can’t go as far as to say that McCoy CLEARLY gives the Browns the best chance to win, but given his mobility calm presence under pressure (so far), he is marginally better than the alternatives.
No matter who plays though, the best development for the Browns will be the return of a relatively healthy Peyton Hillis.
I guess it depends on whether you have given up on this season or not. If you are looking for our best chance to win the game, then the answer might be Seneca Wallace. If you are thinking this year is basically over, then you want to put Colt McCoy in there and see if he improves over the rest of the season. I’m in camp #2… I want to see if McCoy can improve and continue to get used to the pace of the NFL so that by next season, there are no excuses and he can just go out and play (if he wins the starting job). McCoy is a born leader, a good scrambler, and has a decent arm. You can win football games that way… just ask Steve Young. Not every superbowl-winning QB has to be in the mold of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.
What, no Brett Ratliff assessment? Also, Peyton Hillis has an impressive passer rating and deserves some more time under center. Perhaps he can be something of a Michael Vick, making plays with his legs, shoulders AND his cannon arm.
My vote is to play it the way we thought coming into this season: Delhomme, Wallace, Colt in that order when all three are healthy.
I like McCoy as much as the next guy, but please hold off on the comparisons to Steve Young. Young was, aside from Vick, the best scrambling QB ever. He had a good (not great) arm with unbelievable accuracy and decision making. He also played with guys like Jerry Rice, Ricky Watters, and John Taylor.
Let’s be reasonable with the comparisons.
I actually love the Steve Young comparison… how long did he hold the clipboard? đ
It doesn’t matter so much to me if it’s Colt or Seneca but I have to believe for injury and performance reasons Jake has probably fallen to 3rd on the depth chart.
I think for the “best chance to win” it’s a wash between Seneca and Colt. Similar tools with Colt having the better accuracy and Seneca having the experience. Either or will do for me, I’ll trust the FO and coaching staff on this one.
One thing no one seems to be thinking of when they want Colt to play – we have other offensive players that need to develop besides the QB. If we’re going to find out if we have anything in Robo or Massaquoi (I realize a lot of people have already written them off, but they’re still young and developing) it would be much better to have a veteran QB that has actually shown he can throw the ball to receivers. I like what Colt has shown so far, and think he could be a good QB in the future, but let some weapons develop around him first, and he might have a chance to be good when he can start.
@3: L. O. L.
@2: the initial plan was for McCoy to take 0 snaps in 2010. Even if he plays every snap the rest of the season, you do not get a clearer picture of ‘what you have’. The Colts were 3-13 in Manning’s rookie season, and while he tossed for 3700+ yards he threw 26 tds and 28 ints. If McCoy played the rest of the year like Peyton Manning (unlikely!), then you don’t need to draft Luck or Locker, etc. Assuming he plays like a rookie, all you know is that he played like a rookie, and have no idea what that means in 1-2 seasons.
Also, ideally he should be able to learn behind a competent qb for 2 years. So let’s let him play New England and then put in another healthy starter afterwards. No need for him to get nommed 5 times by Darelle Revis.
Steve Young started two seasons for the Bucs before being traded to the 49ers and seeing only intermittent play time as Montana’s backup for 4 seasons. Then he proceeded to become one of the best nfl qbs ever, including the highest career qb rating ever (96.2). So sporadic play for McCoy while we build a team up around him sounds like a good idea.
As always…regardless of who plays, the Browns should still draft a QB in the offseason. They should take one every year until someone rises up to take the spot as franchise QB.
Whatever we pick, just remember that right now we’re faced with a choice between 3 pretty good options as opposed to 2 really bad options. I’m hardly upset by this.
Although I’m generally in the “leave McCoy on the bench when we can” camp, partially so he is motivated to learn from Delhomme and Wallace, and also to protect him from injury.
Delhomme’s not in the plans for next year, I have no idea why they would start him when McCoy can win anyways. Seneca’s the backup.
I guess that’s about it… hopefully “Homegrum” (ala Sam Rutigliano) sees it the same way.
I really think we need to evaluate Colt more. We can’t assume we have our next guy until we see him in enough games. We know the ceiling on Seneca and Jake.
I really don’t think Jake and Seneca make us that much better.
I think McCoy should get the start from here out. Rarely has a QB sat down and then after 2 or 3 seasons has he come out and become a great QB in this league (recently- of current NFL starters). Rodgers is one of the only ones I can think of. 11 games can tell you a lot about his development. Does he keep improving? Will he decline after teams get film on him? Holmgren will be able to see enough to know if they need Luck or Mallet or Locker in round 1 next year. Plus, he has the best record so far against arguably the 2 hardest teams they have faced. As Raheem Morris said, “Stats are for losers, We’ll just keep winning.” (or something like that)
I posted this over the weelend but I think it has relevance to this discussion.
Throughout the whole âstart em/sit emâ argument about Colt McCoy, I feel like people have been completely missing something and that is this â my prediction for the Browns is by the end of the season, we wonât know if Colt is the answer or not. Even if he starts every game the rest of the way, we really wonât know what he will be 3-4 years from now. I think he will continue to look like he does now, some good, some bad but very much in need of developing. Here is the problem. The odds of us knowing if he will becoming Peyton Manning are slim to none. The odds of us knowing if he will be a complete bust are much greater. But knowing anything for sure, enough to determine if Colt is good enough to pass over an assumed canât miss QB like Andrew Luck, will not be known by the end of this season.
QB development is so tough in the NFL. Teams really arenât sure what they have in QBâs for a while. Look at the guy most people were comparing McCoy to before the draft â Drew Brees. He played for 4 years in SD and still didnât know what they has so they drafted Philip Rivers. Brees leaves for the Saints and becomes the guy we all know now. SD had Brees playing and still didnât know what he would become even after 4 years! How on earth are we going to tell about McCoy with our overmatch passing game? We wonât know.
I am a big believer in taking a QB somewhere in the draft every year and I mean EVERY year. It dosenât have to be a first rounder. But you can never have enough QBs that you are developing. Holmgren did this in Green Bay. Look at all the guys that came through there â Brett Farve, Matt Hasselbeck, Mark Brunell and Ty Detmer just off the top of my head.
The point is this, we wonât possibly know enough about Colt McCoy to allow his presence to effect next yearâs draft. If Luck is available and Holmgren and Heckert think he is a sure fire canât miss, well go get him. And if they like the value out of someone in the 3rd round instead, well go get him then.
I’d like to see Wallace start, only because I think he gives the Browns the best chance to win now. While Colt has certainly played well enough, I don’t think that the offensive performance against N.O. would have been the same had Wallace been the QB. I think it could have been an even bigger blow-out with a QB (Wallace) that had more confidence to throw. Colt will be fine, and can learn from the bench this year as we originally thought he would. Meanwhile, I think we can probably be more aggressive offensively and win a couple more games with Wallace. (If not, put Colt in later.)
Poor Jake. Like the guy; but there’s no room . . .
I agree with Mark to a point. I think you are correct that the Browns should take a QB every year. However, I cannot agree with your belief in the “can’t miss” quarterback.
A offensive or defensive lineman can be a “can’t miss” prospect, because their skills translate almost perfectly to the NFL. A running back can be close to a “can’t miss.” However, a quarterback cannot, because no quarterback faces linebackers and defensive backs with the speed of NFL players every week while in college. Some QB’s will adapt to the speed of the game. Some won’t.
There are dozens of QB’s in college that can throw to an open receiver, but only a select few can consistently make the throw to a receiver that is either about to be open or to a spot on the field where the receiver will end up.
@14: see 8. As stated, McCoy sucking with no receivers to work with as a rookie does NOT mean we -need- to draft a 1st round qb. Or any qb. Because he’s a rookie. And will likely play like one.
I support drafting a qb if there is a value athlete in the mid rounds next year or the year after. But playing McCoy will probably not give us a realistic view of his future – see comment #9. Know who the Bucs drafted first overall to replace Young? Vinny Testaverde, Mr. Mediocre himself.
other qbs who sat before starting:
Tom Brady (18 games)
Tony Romo (3 seasons)
Philip Rivers (2 seasons)
I’ll keep looking…
Jake Delhomme (6 seasons on bench and in NFL Europe)
he then went to the Super Bowl in his first season as starter.
what’s jj hickson doing next to delhomme?
Browns fans crack me up.
*The Browns initially draft McCoy and he was a steal in the third.
*After a bad preseason performance, fans were ready to cut him.
*Then the accepted plan was to let him sit and learn.
*Two non-terrible peformances later, we need to see what he can do *RIGHT NOW*!
From steal to worthless to rookie to savior.
You’d think that after all our woes at the position, we would have gained some wisdom and a little patience. Instead, it’s all: start this guy now!, he’s garbage because he threw an interception! and playing injured is no excuse for bad play!
Oh, and it’s all Mangini’s fault too…
@16
You are probably right, WE won’t be able to tell much about the true long term value of McCoy after this year even if he plays from here on out. But Holmgren, Mangini, Heckert and the rest of the decision makers?? Ya they will. Are you trying to tell me that they will be able to learn nothing from watching McCoy play 11 games this year? That’s slightly ridiculous, and if that were the case, they should all be fired.
I agree that grooming QB’s is a very inexact science, but 11 consecutive games as a starter is a very good chunk of information for those trained professionals to use to make good decisions. They made what looks like this far, fairly accurate decisions on Quinn and DA with a lot less information (particularly Quinn).
When comparing to Peyton’s development, yes he through as many INT as TD his rookie year. But do you not think that coaches and executives around the league could tell he was on his way to being something special? It’s not the same as a washed up veteran stop gap starter putting up a 1:1 td/int ratio.
I think its kind of ridiculous to say that playing McCoy from here out would be worthless when you are talking about evaluating his long term value.
couldnt agree more with the points believeland is making.
to add another point, there are FRANCHISE QBs (brady, manning) and there are franchise qbs (orton, ryan).
we have a SB QB under contract through the end of 2011. when he’s healthy, let’s use him. ie, let’s win as many games as possible. if we see a qb we really really like in 2011, we draft him. (Luck wont be there folks, sorry.) Kaepernick? Chappell? Stanzi? one of them should be there in the 5th round. (meantime, let’s beef up the OL please.)
newton-mallett-gabbert-foles-cousins-threet-wilson are scheduled to come out in 2012, gents. if there’s a lockout next year, they aint coming out early. so what the hell is the rush to jam mccoy in the lineup?
i for one think we can make the playoffs THIS YEAR. yes, this year. i’m in no mood to tank the season in order to do a mccoy experiment when the ‘franchise qb’ draft is two years away.
@18
I think the reason QB’s aren’t “can’t miss” prospects has a lot more to do with the fact that success at the position in the NFL is so much a factor of whats between the ears. Scouts and talent evaluators can get a pretty good idea of who can make “NFL throws against NFL speed”.
Its more about who can master the playbook and understand the defenses he faces, and command the huddle and the locker room, and make the smart throw away instead of taking the sack or throwing a pick. The college game doesn’t usually do a great job of measuring these things so its much more of a guessing game than at the other positions.
@23 Good points it’s called desperation. Cleveland fans are so desperate for any sign of positivity that we’ll latch onto anything. Can you blame them? The one thing that bugs me though is when fans overrate players simply because they play for the hometown team. When you can barely name 1 player who is the face of the franchise on every team in your city you have a problem.
wait, so wanting to start Colt is being impatient?
i thought wanting to start Jake/Seneca in hopes of winning a game or two more this season without thought to the long term development of the team was being impatient?
dangit, no matter what, we’re impatient đ
“The Browns and the QB position are in a state of flux”
this has been our motto since 1993 đ
Wow, I should have checked back in here… people completely misunderstood what I was saying. In no way am I saying Colt McCoy is Steve Young. I’m saying that if things were to go absolutely perfectly for him, that’s what he ends up looking like. I’m talking about what his ultimate potential is, and that’s it.
Here’s my question to everyone who thinks we should start Delhomme or Wallace over McCoy… WHY? We already know what we have in Delhomme and Wallace… neither is the future at QB for the Browns, so what possible good would it do to keep McCoy on the bench? I guess you could argue he could learn more with a clipboard in his hand then out on the field, but that seems ridiculous to me. I’m not one of these guys who is going all gaga over Colt McCoy… my point is that starting him makes the most logical sense. Let him take his lumps and learn his lessons on the field now while the Browns are mired in mediocrity. I’m not saying he’s the QB of the future or that we’ll even know that by the end of this season (we might, but maybe not)… that’s not even important. It’s important to make the choice that makes the most sense for both the present and future of the team. If you’re trying to consider both, then McCoy seems like the smart answer.
@Pat I understand your thinking but since the Browns have basically thrown every single rookie/young QB to the wolves I say why not do the opposite. How has it been working out thus far? Besides Mike Holmgren was the one with the plan to sit McCoy for a year which is why he brought in Delhomme and Wallace. If Holmgren is the savior and supposed to be some kind of QB guru then we must defer to him.
@ 20- Brady was a 6th round pick with no expectations. Romo was a practice squad guy. Rivers is good, I forgot about that. My point was about drafted franchise QBs (top 3 rounds). McCoy was drafted in hopes of developing into just that. Through injuries he got on the field (like Brady did). His performance has been good thus far. He is 1-1 against the previous 2 super bowl champs. You play to win, and from the records, McCoy is my guy.
Hereâs my question to everyone who thinks we should start Delhomme or Wallace over McCoy⊠WHY? We already know what we have in Delhomme and Wallace⊠neither is the future at QB for the Browns, so what possible good would it do to keep McCoy on the bench?
i’ll take a stab at this, pat. with respect: from reading the commentary, i don’t think we do know what we have in delhomme. i thought he looked great when he was healthy. his numbers back this up. he’s the first browns qb since bernie who could come up to scrimmage, read a defense, and audible with authority. when playing in the division with ravens/steelers, this is probably the #1 best skill to possess.
as to the qb of the future question: doncha think we should stop looking for the qb of the future and just find the qb of the now? couch, holcomb, frye, quinn were all ‘qbs of the future.’ eff that, you cant project ‘qb of the future.’ find a ‘qb of the now’ and let the ‘qb of the future’ happen.
i think i’m pretty realistic looking at this team.. we should be 4-3. i’m saying this in a ‘what might have been’ way… i’m saying this to say, ‘it’s a pretty good team right now.’ i’m saying this team can definitely beat the pats and jets (and panthers-bills-jags). this team can still compete for the playoffs.
all that said, i just want to the qb who gives us the best shot at winning each weak. if they’re all healthy, it’s still #1 jake, #2 seneca, #3 colt. i like that i’m comfortable with any of them.
what i dont want is to ‘tank’ a season just in the vain effort of finding a ‘qb of the future.’ let’s play for this season, please? thanks.
damn, typo: …iâm *NOT* saying this in a âwhat might have beenâ way…
@Pat… I said it in my post…
It is possible and maybe even LIKELY that Delhomme and Wallace give the Browns their best chance to win games THIS YEAR. You aren’t wasting any kind of opportunity in developing Colt McCoy by sitting him on the bench and letting him watch. This thought that Browns fans have that they need to get reps for Colt McCoy ASAP is such a fallacy if you believe in Mike Holmgren. His plan was for McCoy to sit. Not because McCoy NEEDS reps to get better. He wanted to try to win as many games as possible now, have depth at the position and have a guy develop all at the same time.
Jake Delhomme got hurt and I am skeptical of him too, but there is a chance that he is the best suited to lead this team right now. If the Browns choose to let Delhomme go one more time, I will be on board until he proves he shouldn’t be in the game. Whatever the Browns do, I want them to do whatever they think will help them win the most games THIS SEASON. If that is Colt McCoy, then fine. If it is Delhomme or Wallace, Great.
Just don’t assume that Colt McCoy has to play right now in order for him to be the best quarterback he can be in the NFL in the future. It just isn’t necessarily true.
@28 – Look, all I know is that a month ago the plan was for Colt to sit the whole year. Everyone generally seemed to agree with it. Now, after two limited-but-decent performances, everyone wants to abandon that plan just so we can see right now what Colt can do. I think that’s by definition “impatient”.
We all talk about instilling a culture of winning here. If you want to do that, you can’t shut down the season with eleven games left just to give a rookie QB reps.
@NJ – you are absolutely correct that was the plan a month ago.
of course, a month ago, the only knowledge of Colt McCoy we had was him looking completely overwhelmed in the preseason, and we had 1 healthy QB to start ahead of him (and didn’t think the others injury would last so long).
you cannot look at the current decision of whether to continue with Colt in the prism of what we knew a month ago. we know more now (in regards to Colt, to the team, and to the season).
also, we are not shutting the season down. we are possibly (possibly) losing a win or two in order to setup a real run next year. it’s quite possible that we don’t lose that win and we’ll never really know (unless Colt magically guides us to a playoff spot, which is unlikely as it is unlikely Jake/Seneca do that either).
@Pat:
Again, Wallace (and potentially Delhomme) gives us the best chance to win THIS YEAR. I’m not done with this season yet, and I don’t think the Browns are, either. Let’s play it out, and see where we end up. Based on our performances against PIT, N.O., etc., I like our chances to win more games – even against the tough schedule that we have. Develop McCoy in the off-season, and as extra opportunities this year might present themselves.
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree.
I feel confident that a healthy Jake then Seneca give us the best chance to win now. Like a few other people here, I think the playoffs are still a possibility – an unlikely possibility, but a possibility none the less.
Also, a point I made in another thread: with nine games left, we can give Jake and/or Seneca a chance to try to win the next three or four games and still let McCoy start five more games. We can try to win now and then reevaluate down the road.
32-49 for 355 yards 1 TD and 2 INT. 177.5 yards per game with a passing rating of 76.5 = Colt McCoy. Lets keep some perspective and remember the kind of performances that have suddenly inspired everyone to think that McCoy is a potential rookie of the year.
This is the problem we see just a glimmer of hope and all of a sudden we lose perspective and immediately want to change. We have been doing this since the Browns came back and it hasn’t worked why continue?
I know Wallace looked better then a Hobbled Delholmme, but I do agree he looked great (ok.. good->above what we’ve had since 1999) before getting hurt. If the brass goes back to him Im behind that. But if they start Wallace over McCoy, I would be upset. I think McCoy and Wallace offer similar skill sets and McCoy, through 2 games, has shown he wont make the costly mistake.
@jimkanicki and craig, I guess I was assuming too much in saying that Delhomme is not the QB for now. It’s true, we have only been able to see him play for a half-game injury-free this season, and 4 preseason games. I guess we’re just going to have to be at odds here… I’m of the mindset that reps are always good for the development of a QB, and to be honest I’m just not going to get much enjoyment from an extra win or two this season unless they’re over Pittsburgh or Baltimore. Here’s my reasoning… I think rookie reps are bad for a QB with confidence/leadership deficiencies (Akili Smith comes to mind), but for those QBs who show real leadership I think they’re helpful. I guess the thing I see different about Holmgren is that I don’t necessarily think his plan for this season is inflexible. I don’t know that he wasn’t trying to protect McCoy because he didn’t think he would be ready to handle it and maybe he changes his mind now. Holmgren hadn’t seen him in a real game situation and he hadn’t looked very capable in the preseason. This isn’t like Green Bay where you had proven Super Bowl Winner Brett Favre in front of Aaron Rogers. This isn’t like Seattle where Holmgren had Matt Hasselbeck (who also had to sit behind Favre until he moved to Seattle with Holmgren and there was no clear choice in front of him). Things are not the same in Cleveland… there is a career backup and a guy who *might* be washed up in front of McCoy… I just don’t think you can make the assumption that Holmgren’s plan and what he thinks is best for the franchise is to sit McCoy. I am not saying the opposite either. I am saying it doesn’t matter what his plan was, it matters what his plan is now, and we shouldn’t assume we know what his plan is now.
@ boogey- those numbers could be better had Vickers held on to a few easy passes in the flats. He bobbled what could have been a TD. Yes, still they arent great, and I havent looked at them before that, but we have to remember the 5-7 guys he has to throw to.
@42 Bobby agreed but we must keep some perspective when discussing the QB position. I don’t care for Delhomme or even Wallace I just haven’t seen McCoy do anything to inspire me into thinking he’s something other then a rookie QB on a bad team. Of course his WRs and even the system he’s in work against him that is part of the reason why I don’t see the need to throw him into the fire – unless there is simply no other choice.
I think part of the problem with this debate is that a lot of people equate playing mccoy with throwing in the towel. We as fans are so used to losing that we are calling the playoffs a long shot, when in reality (and I had to check this to be sure), the browns are only 3 games back in the division with 9 games to play including 3 division games.
Here’s my point…
We’re 7 games in and far from elimnated. All of our qb options are fairly even (and all better than last year!). I just can’t wait to see if this team can connect a few consecutive wins. Nobody in the NFL has looked unbeatable this year, and the browns just beat the defending champs! I say we cheer as hard as we can for whomever the browns start and, hopefully, watch them kick the sorry butts of the afc north on the way to the playoffs!
In conclusion…HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!
@44:
Agree, and good points. The problem that I have, however, is that most refer to starting McCoy as a “QB development” issue. If we’re drawing the line between “QB development” and “win now,” I choose WIN NOW.
And yes, HERE WE GO BROWNIES!
As a side note, here’s how the Browns’ season wraps up (in case you forgot):
-Bengals (Away)
-Ravens (Home)
-Steelers (Home)
How great would it be to enter the last 3 weeks of the season with three meaningful division games in a row?
Holmgren finally said we gotta find out what we have in McCoy…
“he indicated that at some point soon the franchise has to more fully evaluate McCoy before heading into the off-season. ”
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/11/cleveland_browns_president_mik_5.html
Im in the “lets win now” camp. Thus, please start Wallace and if the coaches see something, possibly Delhomme. You McCoy guys are in for a really, really, bad game soon. As a rookie, its inevitable.
Now, if we go out and lose the next two games (as the rest of the world expects) then maybe its time to consider McCoy to see what he’s got cause at that point the season is officially over in terms of playoffs.
Personally, Im not ready to throw in the towel yet and I want to see what we can do against the best teams in AFC without the excuse “Oh well, we were playing the rookie QB so of course we lost”
I think Holmgren’s original plan to sit McCoy was based on the assumption that Jake would come in and play like a Superbowl QB instead of a shell-shocked, jittery man. A best-case scenareo was Delhomme would master the team, and Seneca would provide a reliable backstop and a change-of-pace in the Wildcat. Like most battle plans, this one barely lasted past the first shot. Once Delhomme was injured, best-case was nonexistant. McCoy had to start preparing to play instead of just toting the clipboard.
Seneca stepped in on Week Two, and gave us exactly what we had hoped he could, a solid journeyman’s performance at QB. A large part of his performance, however, was the totally unexpected emergence of Peyton Hillis as a Force of Nature in the backfield. Remove Hillis from the Baltimore and Cincy games, and Wallace gets crushed. Eventually he too got hurt, and any hope of the best-case-scenareo was truly dead and buried.
Colt’s first start came with Peyton largely removed from the picture. Harrison removed Josh Cribbs and MoMass from the picture before the half. Even with three of his best arrows removed from his quiver, McCoy managed to throw for 281 yards. He still had a very good chance to win against the Steelers until Stuckey proved he was no Josh Cribbs in the return game.
McCoy still had a depleted arsenal going into the Big Easy. It is true that his numbers were nowhere near what he did in Heinz Field, but he did something equally important. He played a mistake-free game in the loudest setting we’ll face. Few have mentioned the fact that he played all but one play using a silent count. He managed the game. He kept the vaunted Saints Defense from changing the momentum, and recovering from the shocks the defending champs were receiving.
This week will be the first time we get to see Colt playing with a full hand. Cribbs, MoMass and Hillis are all healthy. Our new acquisitions have had two weeks to adjust to their new homes. Come Sunday, this kid we all expected to just stand and learn will have started in the three hardest games on our very hard schedule. Let’s see how he plays Sunday before deciding whether or not he deserves to become our Starter for the rest of the season.