Browns Peyton Hillis Trucks Panthers Charles Godfrey
November 28, 2010While We’re Waiting… Browns Catch a Break, UM Still Stinks and More Mo Gotti
November 29, 2010I really just want to start off on a positive note. The Browns have Peyton Hillis. Three touchdowns, 131 yards rushing and 63 yards receiving is an amazing day of football. Now, on to the real story of the day.
I know a lot of you will think I am crazy for saying this, but this victory by the Browns almost feels worse than the loss to Jacksonville a week ago. Obviously “almost” is the important word here. I will always take a win over a loss even with draft picks at stake. I can’t sit here and tell you guys honestly that this win over the Panthers gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. After the game, if you were watching on TV, you saw Mangini shake his head after the John Kasay field goal clanked and missed. You probably also saw him mouth two words, one of which I can’t type on this site and the other was “me.” I can almost guarantee that Eric Mangini is mightily displeased with this game other than the final score.
First of all, John Kasay missed the game-winning field goal for Carolina, but the kick never should have even occurred. The referees blew it big time. Brandon LaFell caught the ball at the sideline, was tagged down by the Browns and then rolled out of bounds. The refs stopped the clock when LaFell clearly should have been marked in-bounds. The clock stopped with five seconds to go, but the Panthers never would have stopped it without any timeouts left. So it is a good thing Kasay missed that kick for Jeff Triplette and the reffing crew.
The Browns’ tackling also should have prevented the kick from taking place. A week after Maurice Jones-Drew (and two weeks after Santonio Holmes) should have been stopped but weren’t, the Browns still hadn’t learned their lesson as Mike Goodson scampered to the Carolina 48 yard line. The Browns’ defense made some big plays like Abe Elam’s two sacks and Joe Haden’s interception, but they just couldn’t keep it all together and allowed some bigger plays that should have been stopped by fundamental tackling.
Alright, let’s get this out of the way.
Jake Delhomme can’t be counted on to play in the NFL anymore. He is schizophrenic. Delhomme came out firing today and the results looked good on paper in the first half. Delhomme threw for 63 yards on the opening drive and I thought maybe the guy we saw in the pre-season was back. Then, he got away with a horrible shovel pass on 2nd and 8 at the Carolina eight yard line. Well, he got away with it in that it wasn’t intercepted and should have been. Delhomme was flagged for grounding though. Next Delhomme went to Evan Moore for a helmet-to-helmet inducing throw at the goal line that resulted in first and goal. Peyton Hillis did the rest, but that failed shovel pass was a leading indicator more than the score. Delhomme settled down a bit and at the half he had completed 12 of 18 passes for 149 yards and a 92.1 QB rating as the Browns led 21-13.
By the end of the game, it was a completely different story. Jake’s first two throws of the second half went for interceptions. The second was a pick-six on a horrendously telegraphed pass. The Browns were given an opportunity to build off of a 21-13 halftime lead and instead Jake Delhomme gave the ball away twice to allow the Panthers to pull within one point, 21-20. The Browns’ plan was understandably conservative the rest of the game.
Except when it wasn’t. The Browns went for it on a 4th and 1 by having Peyton Hillis run with all the tight ends on the field, but without Lawrence Vickers in front of him… after a time out. I can understand wanting to make the Panthers think pass, I guess, but ultimately, I think you just need to have your best personnel in there trying to get the job done. That includes Lawrence Vickers.
On a third down on the next drive, I think Jake Delhomme called his own number on a failed QB sneak from the Panthers’ 24 yard line. The Browns ended up kicking the game-winning field goal there, but if Delhomme called that there or it was signaled by Daboll or Mangini, I think whoever it is would desperately like that play back.
Overall this one goes as a win for the Browns, but it sure doesn’t feel that great. The Browns put up 24 points, lost the turnover battle, relied on four Carolina penalties for first downs and nearly lost to Jimmy Clausen and his 63.8 QB rating. The Browns have a lot of work to do and a lot of decisions to make this week if Colt McCoy isn’t ready to go against Miami this week.
Let’s end this on an upbeat note. Want to see Peyton Hillis truck a defender? I thought so…
36 Comments
The browns tried hard, but you could tell the panthers just wanted this loss more.
Let’s all just get some perspective here for a moment. Is Daboll limited on play calling due to talent, yes. Should Daboll still be calling smarter plays than he is, yes. Is Delhomme the starting QB now because he’s the true starter, no. Can you fault Mangini for Moore’s fumble, Delhomme’s INT’s or the referee’s horrible play call which were the 3 big reasons this one was so close, no.
All in all let’s remember…the Browns got a win, the Bukeyes have a share
of their 6th straight Big Ten title and my personal favorite #6 totally shouldered his head coach in disgust on the way to the Heats loss and road to implosion last night.
/glass half full’d
…..”I will always take a win over a loss even with draft picks at stake.”
…..EVEN if draft picks were at stake…..Browns fans are just never satisfied.
I hear what you’re saying Christopher on the “lack of talent” comment, but I’m sick of hearing it. Is this team made up of pro bowlers? No. Did they pick all of their offensive players up at the bus stop? Also, no.
To me, the offensive problems were pretty cut and dry for this game. Jake Delhomme couldn’t help but get the Panthers back in the game, and Daboll went away from his monster running back after he tallied 3 TDs in the first half.
We all know why Delhomme is starting. But the criticism is still warranted. Jake Delhomme, and Daboll for that matter, had a big lead and one goal…don’t blow it.
Oh, and an appropriate title for this post.
The Panthers really stole defeat from the jaws of victory today. Their fans must feel like us last year.
Everything you say is true Craig, but the point in the NFL is to win games, and the Browns “Won” this game.
I think the play calling was great this game. Daboll wasn’t out there throwing ints and dropping fumbles.
If Delholmme of the first half shows up all game, we run away with this one.
Hey… here’s what I want to hear from the fire-everybody-up-to-holmgren-right-now Knee-Jerkers:
Who? Who you gonna get for the rest of the season, Huh? Who? I’m just really interested. You seem to know everything that is wrong. Well, step up and tell me who would you replace all these guys with IN THE MIDDLE OF THE F@(#ING SEASON?
Great headline, Craig!
The Browns are the worst tackling team in the history of football.
I’d rather have an ugly win than a moral victories any day.
I think you have to win ugly sometimes. Defense was solid and we finally got one of those lucky breaks our way for once. Screw high draft picks, we need W’s.
Colt can’t heal fast enough though. Delhomme is a great mentor, not a great starting QB. Then again, if the playcalling wasn’t based on him throwing the ball 40+ times a game when you have a Pro-Bowl caliber battering ram at HB, maybe we wouldn’t have needed to be lucky today.
I hope they keep Mangini and Rob Ryan, but they need to prove that they deserve to be kept. Ryan is safe, since the D is the only thing at times saving out rear-ends, but Mangini needs to win these easy games to stay alive. I hope he does, he’s a great coach.
I completely agree w/ feeling deflated after the win, Craig.
One thing that was nice to see was Robiskie and MoMass getting involved in the offense, which helps tear apart the straw man argument that these guys simply can’t get open. Finally, we saw Daboll calling some quick hit passes that work for a possession receiver like Robiskie. Finally THROWING TO THE RECEIVERS was integrated into the gameplan.
There are some troubling trends in Mangini’s ability to close out these games (and please spare me the “it was the players fault” argument…they are coached by the coaching staff so their failure is invariably a reflection of Mangini and his colleagues). However, I would support Holmgren bringing him back for another season. Daboll, on the other hand, has to go.
Who went for the strip on the long run at the end? I think it was elam but was watching on my laptop so couldn’t tell. Either way, it is two weeks in a row of guys going for game winning strips rather than game continuing tackles and that’s not good.
I’m glad we won but it didn’t feel like a win. I think that’s a positive. Last year we would have taken any win, this year we want/expect quality wins.
All in all, I just want Colt back.
I agree with you subadai, that we shouldn’t call for everyone’s job in knee-jerk fashion, especially after a win. However, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to hold the organization’s feet to the coals for some poor performances. I think in most cases (Delhomme, Daboll, Robo, etc.) fans just see some sub-par performances, and are trying to figure out whether or not these players and coaches should be, in their opinion, part of the future of this team.
Also, Craig, while I think you are spot on with most of this post, and I love the title, can we please, PLEASE not talk about draft picks?
In my humble opinion, and I mean no offense here, measuring the Browns’ chances to land a better draft slot could be the biggest indicator of a loser mentality imaginable. Think about it. What happens when a team totally hits the gutter and gets a top 3 or top 5 draft pick? Answer: the whole coaching staff gets fired. Is that really what we want?
It’s pretty plain to see that this team is way better than last year’s squad. A full coaching staff turnover is not necessary.
Also, there are more than 32 good players in any given draft, and getting a top 5 pick means you are essentially obligated to sink a ton of money into an unproven player. You don’t need a top 5 pick to succeed. Many teams get stuck in the basement by continually overpaying top picks in drafts that lack players that actually separate themselves as elite.
3 quick points:
– desperately trying to stay positive despite feeling like a shower after this one, we get a win AND identify glaring weaknesses. So, win-win (stifles wretching noise).
– Not a Wallace fan, but he’s certainly the lesser of two weevils. The misfiring of neurons when Jake contemplates passing options must now be considered a permanent condition after nearly two years.
– Don’t understand what people are claiming the refs did wrong in reviewing the final pass because time would have expired. They have discretion to review plays in the last few minutes, and this was a huge one. Of course the review will stop the clock. What’s the option – instantaneously deciding it’s better for one team that the clock should run and not review it? That’s not practical.
Really wasn’t too upset with anyone outside of Jake Delhomme today. The tackling was horrendous but the D also came up with big plays and actually pressured the QB. We need Colt back quickly or I think they need to move on with Seneca, Jake was just really really really bad in that second half. Even in the first half when he was missing guys he was missing them by 2 or 3 yards. Get him out.
@ Sub and C-bus.
I don’t want to fire everyone. I don’t think anyone really does. We’re just so used to everyone sucking that it comes naturally now.
I think we need to continue to do that which has given us some upward momentum.
Draft a O-lineman
Find a gem in the later rounds
Open the playbook
A win is a win, but playing this season shows us where the real weakness are. Good teams don’t rest after progress, they continue to work.
@ Cbus Kevin
I agree with you in the “lack of talent” excuse only lasts for so long. Prime example is today’s 3rd quarter. Up 2 TD’s and the Carolina offense looking anemic with a rookie QB Daboll only needs Jake to manage the game, no turnovers and ride Hillis/Bell/Stuckey Wildcat to the win.
So what does he do? Let’s Delhomme come out firing. Now, did Daboll physically throw the INT then the pick six, no. But he did not call plays secure the win.
I think the other huge thing I’ve really realized in this one is how smart and mobile McCoy is. The two INT’s and flailing shovel pass were all Delhomme being hurried or frantic refusing to check down. McCoy has done a great job of scrambling for positive yardage or
getting to the check down receiver safely.
Another quick observation..why did Ryan play such a vanilla defensive scheme against the 1-9 rookie QB? I counted maybe 4 or 5 hybrid looks with one down lineman but nothing really exotic to confuse Claussen. The second he dropped back to the 3-4 we were getting gashed from missed LB tackles.
Nobody was saying we should give the NO or NE victories back because they were playing over their heads, so I’ll say take the win and move on. It’s professional football and in the end you have to win ugly games. It’s better than losing an ugly game. Get over yourselves.
@ HistoryCat…I totally agree. I think people just want to see improvement, and to some folks, that means not having Delhomme on the roster anymore, or perhaps “reevaluating” certain coaching positions between this season and next season.
As for me, I think this team has shown improvement overall this season. As such, the entire coaching staff should be retained for next season. Now, that opinion could change if the team loses the rest of their games and finishes 4-12, but I don’t see that happening.
This team should still shoot for 8-8 or better.
@christopher: carolina came out in the second half determined to stuff the run and gang tackle hillis. It was working pretty well. Daboll was trying to keep them honest… Jake was trying to shove the ball where it doesn’t belong.
I’m happy with today’s game: for the simple fact that the dice fell for, and not against, the Browns for once. There was no reason to win it with 5 left and Carolina looking for a chip in. But they did. Because life’s unfair sometimes. I’m happy because it was someone else and not us.
Having been at the game, I cannot blame Jake. He made some great throws through some tight windows to get the ball to the WRs. I think there was 1 play that I remember Watson open down field but other then that no one.. and i mean NO ONE could get open. I think playcalling is part to blame for this. The majority of defensive formations by Carolina, esp in the 2nd half, had 8 guys in the box and a safety overtop with 1-on-1 recievers. You have to call a streak with one receiver then a post or deep in with the other at least once there and you get a big play. Daboll stuck with the short slants which ran the WRs straight into the coverage (8-man box).
The INTs were bad, but man there were some Great passes (cant say that enough here). Jake is not mobile, but he had a good game ultimately.
Also, they cant be passing that much. If all your doing is short passes that run into the box, you CANT pass that much with Hillis as your back. If you pass that spread it out and take some shots downfield so Hillis gets some space to run. And run out of these “passing formations” more often. Get 3-4 WRs and run behind thomas. It was open all day today.
This was the first game I honestly did not enjoy watching all year.
It felt like a regression from what has been marked improvement every single week of this season, and up to the Clausen 2 minute drill and the horrendous tackling there, I guess that was mostly Delhomme’s fault.
That, however, doesn’t change the fact that I am very concerned about McCoy’s injury, Cribbs’s injury (the guy has been perpetually banged up all year), and that our D, despite their making big plays the last several weeks, is still not learning from their past mistakes. STOP TRYING TO STRIP THE BALL IN THE OPEN FIELD. JUST TACKLE!
I’m not harboring (mostly) unrealistic hopes of sneaking in as a wild card, but I want to watch good football. That means getting Jake Delhomme off the field and putting that clipboard in his hands… permanently.
If Wallace is healthy and McCoy is not, Wallace has to start. Delhomme is a third-stringer, if that. At least with Wallace you should have his ability to run and use Wildcat-like formations. Oh, and WHERE WAS THAT GAME PLAN LAST WEEK??? Why couldn’t you let McCoy come out of the box throwing like Daboll did today? THAT’S the reason why he’s so not ready for prime time.
I look at the four games starting today as must-wins or else Mangini is gone – and if the wins look like this, it’s hard to think of a reason to keep him as well. (Well, that and insisting Daboll stay …)
I was at this game and the Tampa game. Both Jake starts. He is TERRIBLE. Any sort of pressure; getting him out of the pocket and the nightmare unfolds. I can’t be too upset because he isn’t part of the future. THANK GOD.
Look at the Jets. They shouldn;t have won in a month. It is what it is.
Man, Jake Delhomme sucks. Why is he always freaking out and running out of the pocket when his protection holds up? Dude needs to chill out! He makes Colt look better though.
Not sure how Mangini is any to blame today. Seriously…People get a clue.
@ anyone who is freaking out of Jake not throwing the ball-
You may not be able to see this on TV, but you can at the game. There is virtually NO WAY to throw the ball to the WRs. The fact that Robo had 7 catches and MoMass added around 5 or so is a miracle. You have to make perfect throws for these guys because the coverage is like a blanket. No one can get open. There is no threat of a deep pass because no one runs more then 20 yards downfield. When they do they are running into a safety. WRs need to get open in 4 seconds MAX and these guys arent. There was literally no one to throw to.
Thats on Daboll and the WRs. A short passing/power running offense doesnt mix if you dont try to use 1-1 matchups on the outside to take a shot downfield once in a while.
@Chris
I guess my point is exactly what you stated. I’m totally fine with Carolina determined to stuff the run for an entire quarter while I’m up two TD’s and facing Jimmy Claussen. It’s not like Brady or Manning was sitting on the opposing sideline waiting to come in.
Just my opinion im fine with “woody ball” against the 1-9 Panthers for the second half. If Claussen all of a sudden catches fire then I go back to the attack. Just my opinion.
@bobby – does that mean he has to force throws to guys that aren’t really open? Does that mean he shouldn’t throw the ball out of bounds when pressured or check down to an available TE or RB? Jake has shown his decision making should be in question, that’s all I’m trying to convey here.
I think Delhomme played pretty well today. He made two bad judgement throws which resulted in picks but other than that he managed the game pretty well. It was amazing seeing a QB throw the ball to our wideouts. I was starting to think that we just draft wide receivers to run block.
@stin- the wonder part about that is when Jake DID throw it out of bounds (i remember once in the 3rd quarter after the INTs) the fans there start booing and saying hes awful this and that.
Two weeks ago I said the Browns peaked with the Jets game.
Got called names.
Well, now everyone is seeing it.
In the last 3 quarters of the Jets game the Browns scored 7 points. browns fans were delirious that they had found their QB of the future. Against the Jags they scored zero points in the 2nd half. But “improvement” was shown in the Panther game, when against one of the worst defenses in the NFL, the Browns reamed them for 3 points.
I told you that Mangini gets a lead at the beginning of the game and sits on it. I said that in 5 years of coaching in the NFL he has not proven that he can make in-game adjustments and change in-game strategy to get momentum back when his team loses it.
I knew all about this because when Mangini was hired I talked to some Jet fans I knew. He’s doing exactly the same thing he did in New York, and the fans there felt like a weight had been lifted from their shoulders when he was fired.
If he comes back again in 2011 it will be more of the same. The best that can be hoped for is a 9-7 record and a wild card spot in the playoffs which they get eliminated from in the first round because the other team out-coaches Mangini.
This is just terrible football to watch. At least 4 games should have been won this years that weren’t because of the coaching.
And if that happens, we can consider firing him next year IMO. This year he has done great things with this organization.
We’re already pretty much a shoe in to tie our w/l record for last year (not saying much, I know). But if you want the real story, check out our point differential. We have scored 13 fewer points than our opposition thus far in our season. Last year we were -130 points. Sure, the season isn’t over, but we would have to seriously choke to somehow challenge that total. Now check out our schedule difficulty. Our schedule was rated at -0.3 last year so it was actually a little under average. This year we have had the toughest schedule in the league.
I salivate to think how we’d be dominating teams if we had an easy schedule like we did last year, but I’m glad we have a tough one, it let’s us honestly evaluate where our needs are.
One need we have is stability. Stop blowing up the team, stop bringing in new personnel, stop teaching the players new scheme after new scheme, stop introducing new visions.*
Stats from: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/
*I am against complete regime change. I also happen to think Daboll is doing a passable job, but I could be persuaded on Daboll’s position.
You all are missing the worst part of yesterday’s game. Torry Holt!!!! He was by far the worst announcer/broadcaster I have ever heard. I literally muted the game for large stretches! He stammered and stumbled over all his “points”. He verbally acknowledged when the producers told him to diagram the replay with a out of know where “Uh huh”. He didn’t know the players, the plays, and frankly made me wonder what he did know about football and who he slept with to get the job. I would have preferred Joe Morgan over Torry Holt, that bad. Worst. Broadcaster. Ever.
@Harv: the refs screwed up. If the in/out was a big question, you call the receiver down by contact. With 5 seconds to go, the booth review will come down, even if the 5 seconds expires. If you see him out of bounds and not down by contact, the playclock can be reset to 5 seconds; by ruling him out of bounds (when he was pretty clearly touched) ensures that you -cannot- overturn the call and wind the clock out. Classic hack job reffing, good thing Kasay saved face for the refs.