May 25, 2013

Quarterback is Pretty Clear Now for Browns

November 29, 2010 by 36 Comments

Remember the mantra: there is no QB controversy.  We certainly did learn a lot about Jake Delhomme yesterday.  The bottom line is that the Browns should keep Jake around for the rest of this year as the third quarterback on the depth chart.  Delhomme has had two legitimate chances to compete this season due to injury, but the results are conclusive now.  The Browns can no longer assume Jake Delhomme is the guy who gives them the best chance to win.  He does some nice things and can play in spurts, but the interceptions just aren’t worth the risk anymore for this Browns team that thrives on controlling the clock and limiting mistakes.

A lot of Browns fans seem to think that Jake Delhomme’s rocky day is inextricably tied to Brian Daboll and Eric Mangini being bad coaches.  Or, maybe you think that Delhomme is bad and you don’t like the coach so you use it as a bullet in your gun aimed at Mangini and Daboll.  I think a lot of arguments can be made against Eric Mangini and Brian Daboll, but I just don’t follow that line of thinking.  We can talk about whether or not Mangini and Daboll should return next season after the year is over.  

In the meantime, I refuse to believe that Brian Daboll’s gameplan is the reason that Jake Delhomme threw two interceptions.  On the pick-six, Delhomme extended the play beyond the first few reads and made a really really bad decision.  Maybe it was a bad playcall by Daboll, but he can’t be held responsible for the interception.  If Delhomme throws the ball away seven times in a game because people aren’t open, then I think you can blame Daboll for calling plays that aren’t working.  It is a fine line though between blaming the coach and blaming the players for poor execution.

Let’s talk about the decision process to go with Jake Delhomme over Seneca Wallace in the first place.  It is more than reasonable to assume that Eric Mangini doesn’t make decisions in a vacuum anymore.  During his bye week press conference, Holmgren basically told us that he is involved while allowing Mangini to make decisions.  So, Mangini didn’t make the decision to bring Jake Delhomme to the Cleveland Browns and I am guessing even if he made the decision to start Delhomme this week, his voice wasn’t the only one in the conversation.  You have to assume that Mike Holmgren was at least consulted on this decision.  Given the injury to Colt McCoy and the depth chart for the team at the beginning of the season, it shouldn’t have been surprising to any of us as fans either that Delhomme was the choice.

But a lot of you are unreasonable anyway.  ”Why didn’t Mangini sit Delhomme to start the second half???!!!?!??”

I asked after the first half if anyone would complain about Jake Delhomme being replaced by Seneca Wallace to start the third quarter and overwhelmingly I heard that people wanted Wallace.  Don’t get me wrong, my eyes were telling me that Jake Delhomme was hanging by a thread in the first half too, but I don’t know how anyone being intellectually honest can justify replacing a guy who has completed 12 of 18 passes for 149 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs and a 92.1 rating.  Yes, Delhomme went out and threw two interceptions in his first two passes of the half.  Unless you had a crystal ball, nobody knew that Delhomme was going to devolve into that.

Some of you then went on to claim that Delhomme should have been replaced after the second interception.  I will buy that.  When Mangini was asked if he thought about switching, he said, “Not really at that point.  I wanted to see how it would play out. He’d had a really good first half and got a range of people involved.”  I would never say that Mangini was wrong to stick with Delhomme, but I would have supported a decision to go to Wallace had he made that decision.

That is my take on the in-game decision.  Now that we are in the period between games, I think the answer is quite clear.  The Browns need to go with a depth chart of Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace and Jake Delhomme third.  If Colt McCoy isn’t healthy, then Seneca Wallace has to get the nod to start this week in Miami.

Wallace has completed 63% of his passes to Delhomme’s 55%.  Seneca Wallace has seen more action than Delhomme and he has thrown two interceptions to Delhomme’s six.  Seneca Wallace’s QB rating is 88.5 compared to Delhomme’s 48.2.  Yes, the Browns found a way to win with Delhomme at the helm this week, but it is quite clear that his tenure as Browns starter should be over barring injury.

If you want to say “I told you so” because I am saying this now and you have been saying it for months, that’s fine.  Still, I disagree that any of us knew that Jake Delhomme wouldn’t end up being the guy we saw in the pre-season who won the starter’s job in the first place.  My conclusion now isn’t based as much on guessing and pretending that I am prescient as it is on what I have seen from all the quarterbacks now that we have been unlucky enough to see them all get time behind center.

We are talking about a team that needed all new options at quarterback this year compared with the previous season.  Yet, some of you want the head coach to magically know who should be the starter and who will perform on the field before he gets a chance to see any of them.  It just doesn’t work that way.  When you have options at positions, you have them for a reason.

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  • RandomHero1047

    Agreed. If Colt can’t go, then they have to go to Seneca.

    I think the main issue that people have with Daboll is the fact that Hillis had 3 TDs in the 1st half, and we all know that Delhomme is a head case when he throws too much (If WE all know it as casual football fans, then you know the coaching staff knows it). Once the 2nd half starts, Delhomme comes out slinging and tosses his first INT, then after that, we continue to throw without running Hillis even though the run game was crazy successful (even Bell had a few redeeming runs).

    Brett Favre can get away with tossing an INT or two because he has Adrian Peterson, and this year we’re seeing a similar pattern in Minnesota. They have a dominant run game, but Favre tosses 40+ times a game, throws 3 INTs a game and they abandon the run. They follow this pattern all the way to 3-7 and then WHAM, Childress gets fired.

    Maybe they started Jake because of the money and he was extra motivated to prove John Fox wrong?

  • stin4u

    Nice job Craig.

    I agree with what you’ve said here. Jake had a reasonably good first half so I don’t think there was a clear cut reason to pull him going into the second (he did miss some passes badly but no major mistakes).

    I’ve backed off my Mangini/Daboll hatred as this team has finally shown progress and to be honest I don’t think the play calling was horrendous yesterday. It seemed like Jake was just really trying to put the ball into places it wouldn’t fit. I agree that Seneca should probably get the nod next week assuming Colt McCoy isn’t healthy.

  • kingdiesel

    This is just more of the “SOB” or “Same Old Browns”. This guy should never have been brought in and McCoy should have been handed the team from Day 1 and let him work out the rookie kinks. Holmgren’s draft looks very very good and some of these young kids can play, but why ask this great fan base to subject itself to a guy like Jake D? Embarrassing.

  • MattyFos

    This is tough.. I am not a big fan of McCoy, Wallace, or Delhomme. But I would prefer Delhomme over McCoy. Mostly because I don’t think McCoy is the long term solution. Maybe Wallace is the perfect combination of the two to play as QB. Wallace has arm strength similar to Delhomme and better legs than McCoy.
    I watch McCoy and we are playing 9 on 11, because the Wide Outs aren’t part of the game plan. It was nice seeing are receivers getting involved yesterday. OUR WIDEOUTS THAT CAN’T GET SEPARATION.

    When Delhomme was hitting Robiskie and MoMass yesterday, he was hitting then coming out of their breaks. Exactly what I’ve been screaming about timed routes. The receiver will get open coming out of his break because the defenders have to react.

    So, maybe Wallace is the guy, but I would prefer Delhomme over McCoy. The first pick was a really bad decision. He didn’t see the LB sitting in zone. The second pick was almost as bad, but it would have been a good pass if he would have thrown it a second or two earlier. The defender broke on the route before the ball was thrown.

  • Carl Tassoff

    Two weeks ago I said the Browns peaked with the Jets game.

    Got called names.

    Well, now everyone is seeing it.

    In the last 3 quarters of the Jets game the Browns scored 7 points. Browns fans were delirious that they had found their QB of the future. Against the Jags they scored zero points in the 2nd half (with their QB of the future at the helm). But “improvement” was shown in the Panther game, when against one of the worst defenses in the NFL, the Browns reamed them for 3 points.

    I told you that Mangini gets a lead at the beginning of the game and sits on it. I said that in 5 years of coaching in the NFL he has not proven that he can make in-game adjustments and change in-game strategy to get momentum back when his team loses it.

    I knew all about this because when Mangini was hired I talked to some Jet fans I knew. He’s doing exactly the same thing he did in New York, and the fans there felt like a weight had been lifted from their shoulders when he was fired.

    If he comes back again in 2011 it will be more of the same. The best that can be hoped for is a 9-7 record and a wild card spot in the playoffs which they get eliminated from in the first round because the other team out-coaches Mangini.

    This is just terrible football to watch. At least 4 games should have been won this year that weren’t because of the coaching.

  • http://www.heyhokie.com Vengeful Pat

    I have to agree with Craig and stin4u, there was no reason to pull Delhomme after the first half. I thought he looked great in that half… he threw some very nice passes which helped set up the running game. I just don’t get how a guy can play so well in the first half, and then stink it up in the second half. The completion percentage didn’t really bother me too much because let’s be honest, when Delhomme does complete a pass, a lot of them are longer than 2-3 yards. Still, I like how Colt controls a game, and that’s the leader I want in the huddle.

  • ben

    I won’t attribute jake’s INT’s to Daboll or Mangini. As you said, that’d be kind of crazy.

    BUT, something is clearly wrong with our 2nd half offense. Whether it’s the inability to counter their defensive adjustments, a “going into a shell to protect the win/tie/whatever” syndrome, or a lack of conditioning, we are routinely playing pretty solid 1st half football, then looking horrible in the 2nd half.

  • C-Bus Kevin

    To me, it’s pretty simple. When you don’t have a lot of reliable receiver options, you need a quarterback who is mobile enough to escape trouble and buy a couple extra seconds.

    Seneca Wallace can do it. Colt McCoy can do it. Jake can’t do it.

    On a team with better receivers, Jake would be a viable option. It reminds me of Favre’s situation last year compared to this year. We see now how ineffective Favre is with some of his best receiving options hurt through most of this season.

    I don’t think Jake is washed up completely, but you can almost pick out the exact moment when he hits the panic button on every play. And while the two interceptions yesterday wouldn’t be enough reason to bench someone under normal circumstances, they are the continuation of a pattern that has plagued him since the start of last season in Carolina.

    On the upside, I would feel pretty confident going into 2011 with a Colt/Wallace starter/back-up situation, because I think they have similar “tools” as players (good escape ability, running ability to move the chains, accurate while moving, etc.). If McCoy were to go down with injury, Wallace could step in with virtually no change in the offensive strategy.

  • http://www.60bpm.com/ Robbie

    The thing that bothers me the most about Delhomme’s play is that, sure the WRs suddenly appeared, but you have to take into consideration WHO the Browns were playing. What do you think he would have done vs the Jets?!? I would have liked to have seen what McCoy would have done in the same situation.

    I didn’t think Delhomme should have been pulled before the start of the 3rd quarter, but he had thrown quite a few questionable balls by that point. After the two INTs in a row (including a pick 6), I was absolutely infuriated that he was put back in there. Wallace should start in front of Delhomme, in my opinion.

    Overall, I’m just not one of the “a win is a win” people. A win is a win when you’re contending. When you’re not going to the playoffs, it’s more important to keep improving and this team has regressed after playing great football against better teams.

    I’m never happy when Cleveland teams play down to their competition. Unfortunately, it tends to happen. The Browns will never compete in the AFC North as long as this happens.

  • oribiasi

    Thank you, MattyFos. Obviously Robiskie and Massaquoi are worthless, right? Puhlease. They have good release and are clearly open.

    I think McCoy is the answer, though; he just needs more time with the first-stringers and better knowledge of their routes to make the passes more often.

  • Howard Roarke

    I have lived in other areas of the country, and cannot believe the mentality of Browns fans.

    Everything is about who should be the QB, and next years draft.

    This is not what being the fan of an NFL team in about.

    Does anyone live in the present here?

  • Harv 21

    Agree, Craig.

    A slightly wider perspective on Jake is appropriate. The sample size of his play should extend back to his ’07 playoff meltdown, because he’s exhibiting the same problems. People who think preseason games are a reliable indicator don’t understand the difference in personnel, speed and intensity between preseason and regular season.

    Holmgren admits he sometimes mistakenly thinks he can cure any QB. He was wrong about Jake. Jake is done. He’s not a kid who will have this inclination coached out of him, or a sub who just needs more playing time. Jake has now consistently thrown brainlocked picks since late ’07. If you’re trying to instill a winning culture, you just can’t keep playing the guy who plays really well “except for” the game-turning interceptions.

    Give Seneca the playing time. It will make him sharper for when he’s Colt’s backup again.

  • stin4u

    I’m still torn on the receivers. It seemed like there were very very few instances of those guys being really “open” and more instances of them getting maybe a step and Jake fitting the ball in. This is cliche but if we had a down field play maker a la a number one receiver those guys would clearly look better. I like Mo Mass much more than Slowbiskie, but I think both guys are serviceable if they had someone to open up the field. Lets not forget that average maturation for a receiver in the NFL is 3 years and these guys are only in their second.

  • C-Bus Kevin

    As for the second half slowdown, I think Daboll is to blame the most. However, I will give him a tentative pass, because this team lacks a good complementary back for Hillis. With another viable running option, they wouldn’t have to worry about running Hillis into the ground, because they could go to another solid player, even if that second guy averages 3 to 4 yards per carry. Perhaps we’ll see improvement in this area if Hardesty can get (and stay) healthy.

    As for Carl’s belief that Mangini is simply incapable of finishing games because he “sits on a lead,” I must disagree.

    I’m not sure how you can look at the “gun slinging” approach to the early part of the second half and say the Browns are just hanging on to win. In fact, I would have preferred an approach that would have been more run-heavy in an effort to keep the clock moving. However, it wasn’t Mangini or Daboll that threw those interceptions. The only thing I wish we would see from Daboll is an occasional deep pass attempt, even if it’s only got a slim chance of success, simply to keep 8 guys out of the box against Hillis.

    Just send SOMEONE deep to keep the safeties away from the line of scrimmage. We’ve seen what Hillis can do when he gets to the “second level” of defenders…he crushes them.

    And as for McCoy, I think it’s a little early to say that he “lacks the arm strength.” Right now, he’s just sticking with what works, and that’s OK. The team is more productive with him on the field, and he doesn’t make the terrible throw. I think that McCoy could be the QB of the future, but I also think the Browns should continue to draft QB’s in the middle rounds until it is certain that they have found “their guy.”

  • Dan

    Well said Craig. I don’t think you could have justified taking Delhomme out certainly at the half and not even after the 2 INTs. That said, I think you’ve gotta go with Wallace at this point if McCoy is still banged up. Seneca has looked very competent in his time on the field this year.

    One thing I did like about Delhomme, he got the ball to Robiskie and MoMass. Gotta find a way to keep doing that, regardless of the QB.

  • stin4u

    BTW was anyone else excited to see Carlton Mitchell actually get into the game a few times? I wonder why he’s not gotten more time as the year has progressed.

  • ben

    @14: Are you saying “WE NEED A QB WITH A MEGA-ROCKET LASER ALIEN CANNON ARM!?!?!?!!”

  • MattyFos

    @ C-Bus Kevin

    It is not OK to just throw dump passes. Jacksonville showed the rest of the league the key to beating the Browns with McCoy at the helm.. Stack the box against Hillis and bring the heat on obvious passing downs. Because McCoy won’t recognize the blitz and send his receiver on the hot reads.

    /Until McCoy shows that he can throw the ball consistently outside of the hash marks, I will continue to say his arm lacks strength.

    //Only time I can remember McCoy going deep is early in the JAX game when he under threw a wide open MoMass by 10 yards forcing MoMass to play defender.

  • C-Bus Kevin

    @Oribiasi…I will admit, I complained more than most about Robo, and his performance against a now 1-10 team was great, but I’m not ready to eat crow just yet. Fortunately for Robo, there’s nobody on this team ready to take over for him the rest of the way. In my opinion, he has 5 good games left to show that he has the capability to get open and make drive extending plays.

    Even yesterday though, I think the biggest problem for Robo is that he doesn’t get open in the red zone. During the broadcast, they showed a couple of replays that focused on him when the Browns were within 10 yards of the end zone, and he lets the DB “blow up” his route at the line of scrimmage by jamming him. That’s the play where he needs to get separation, because that will translate to 3rd and short plays where the defense blitzes, the defender is on him 1 on 1, and he needs to get separation to give the QB a quick “hot read” option.

    Let’s not forget, Robo had 9 catches this year until yesterday’s game, and that’s largely due to the fact that he isn’t open enough to get looks from the QBs.

    As for MoMass, he has shown some improvement over the season, and I still think he would be a great 2nd option if the Browns can land a true #1 through the draft, a trade, or free agency.

  • Carl Tassoff

    As for Carl’s belief that Mangini is simply incapable of finishing games because he “sits on a lead,” I must disagree.
    __________

    Sorry C-Bus,

    This is exactly what the Jets did.

    And if you look at the way Romeo coached, he did the same thing except in 2007 when Savage forced an OC on him.

    This is not as simple as pass vs. run.

    This is about being able to see what the other team is doing on defense in the 2nd half, and running plays to exploit their weaknesses. Mangini and his staff seem incapable of recognizing the weaknesses and running the plays to take advantage of them.

    But like Romeo, Mangini goes into a shell in the 2nd half, afraid of making a mistake and losing the game (playing not to lose) because he has no confidence that his team can come back in the 4th quarter if they give up turnovers and the other team capitalizes on them.

    Look at the top 6-8 teams in the ‘Power Rankings’ this year, or the top 6-8 teams in the NFL the past 2-3 years, and you’ll see no team that plays like this. This is what Romeo and Mangini learned from Belichick with the early 2000 Patriots, but it no longer works because of the rule changes favoring passing with allows good opponents to quickly put up 2-3 scores. In fact, Belichick long ago got away for the ball-control/eat-up-the-clock game in response to the rule changes.

    It is my belief that Mangini is playing a style of ball that is suckering the fans in by keeping the game close till the final quarter. Then every week people can say – “if only” – and convince themselves that next year is going to be great.

    What you’re seeing is EXACTLY what NY Jet fans saw with Mangini and they couldn’t take it anymore. As for HIM building the Jets – Rex Ryan came in and had Tannenbaum turn over more then half the team. Last year they made the playoffs, and this year they are tied with Belichick’s Patriots and the Falcon’s (whose GM worked for the Patriots and who hired a head coach that also plays a wide open offense) for the best record in the NFL at 9-2.

    Mangini is a .500 coach at best that will make it to the playoffs every 3 years, and lose in the first round. If this satisfies you as a fan, so be it. From what I’m hearing, Jet fans couldn’t be happier the past 2 years.

  • JPS3

    jake is a generally accurate qb who makes 2-3 brain farts a game. i’d play mccoy every chance i get.

  • JK

    Some of you guys are ridiculous.

    All we wanted was a team that competes. Now we have a team that has beat the SB champs, dominated one of the best teams in the AFC, and has been in every single game, and everybody is crying.

    Everyone knows our offense isint good, what are you gonna do about it? The earliest it can be fixed is in the offseason. Offensivly, fix the right side of the OL and grab a #1 WR, then lets see if we have a QB good enough to play. What should Daboll do? Obviously he cant run PH every single play, our WR corps are probably the worst in the NFL, our biggest playmaker (Cribbs) is hurt, and we have either a rookie QB starting, or a guy way out of his prime. Personally Im extremely happy about the way the team has played this year.

    People, we’re still not that good, did you really think we would go from where we were last year to a playoff contender? Come on. Personally Im extremely happy about the way the team has played this year.

  • Stinkfist

    Come on guys, we won! I think that constitutes being a little more upbeat than pessimistic. Some of the same guys who supported Craig’s article after the Jets game “Be Proud of Your Browns Even in Defeat” are the same guys who want to “Curse Your Browns even in Victory”. Yes, Daboll is average at best; yes, our receivers need improvement; yes, Delhomme should not be our number 1 QB; yes, the Panthers suck, blah, blah, blah…
    Here are some positives. Hillis had a monster game (at least the first half), Reggie Hodges had a clutch punt late in the game, the defense seemed to at least hold the Panthers to field goal attempts, and Joe Haden made another huge play.
    Congrats Browns (and Jake) on the victory, but get healthy soon Colt, we need you.

  • C-Bus Kevin

    @ MattyFos…I totally agree. i know I contradicted myself earlier, but I agree that the Browns need to work in a deep pass attempt at least 2 to 3 times per game just to keep the defense honest.

    As for the reference to “dump passes,” I don’t consider escaping the pocket to find tight ends and Hillis dump passes per say.

    I’m on your side of the “we need to see them stretch the field” argument, and it might turn out that McCoy can’t do that. I just think McCoy is the best option currently on the roster.

  • BuckeyeDawg

    In keeping with the “big picture” nature of JK’s post…if you would have said before the season that we would be 4-7 after 11 games, I probably would have said “yeah, that sounds about right”.

    We are a competitive team that is 2-3 pieces away from being a playoff contender. I’ll take that after the past two seasons.

  • C-Bus Kevin

    @ Carl…I don’t totally disagree with you. At times this year, the team’s offensive strategy has gotten way too conservative.

    However, I wouldn’t crown this year’s Jets the Super Bowl champs just yet. They are winning games by the skin of their teeth lately, and if it weren’t for the late Stuckey fumble, the Browns would probably have won that game. That’s not Mangini’s fault.

    All I know is that like JK says, this team is improved from last year, I am enjoying the games (in late November!), and the team has shown progress overall since Mangini has been hired. I still think this team will finish with more wins than last year with a tougher schedule. Mangini should stay on as coach.

  • 5KMD

    JK,

    The Browns are actually a playoff contender…if they played in the NFC west. Or the AFC west for that matter.

    It is going to be uphill sleding for the Browns in the meatgrinder that is the AFC north. They have got to get deeper and get a couple more game changers on either side.

  • Steve

    I do blame Mangini and Daboll for making the decisions that result in the Browns in a boring offense that will not try to throw to wide receivers. And as another person said, Mangini does indeed like to sit on a lead for dear life. I am sure Colt and Wallace both can throw down field to receivers as can Delhomme except the latter is a threat to throw it to the wrong color of shirt every time. Delhomme simply makes bad decisions – more than a veteran ought to. Mangini and Daboll both need to be replaced next year – the Browns are going to lose at Miami and Buffalo the next 2 weeks if we have Delhomme starting. Wallace should be in there until McCoy returns. If the Browns had any kind of a passing game to their wide receivers, Hillis would be even more effective.

  • oribiasi

    C-Bus Kevin — I know the regulars here (I’m one of ‘em) and I know you’re smart enough to know that Robo didn’t get looks for two reasons. 1: Peyton Hills and 2: McCoy is young and needs more work to get into a groove with him.

  • ben

    @ JK & MattyFos: I’m totally happy with the way things are going. But, that doesn’t change that particular criticisms are legitimate.

    Instead of last year, where we could pretty much say every aspect of the except for the left side of the line and special teams were terrible, now the list of problems has shortened to things like “good WR play,” “showing up for the 2nd half,” and “consistent tackling.”

    I can guarantee Colt’s fans aren’t all “hooray, we’ve had 12 win seasons for 6 years, so it’s ok we might not make the play offs this year!” They are “ok, we need to look into addressing problems X, Y, and Z.”

    I’m sure we are all enjoying the win and the better season, as well we should be. But it doesn’t stop at 4-7.

  • C-Bus Kevin

    @ oribiasi…I appreciate the kind words. In fact, that’s why I frequent this site. The dialogue in the comments section is some of the smartest and most well thought out on the Internet (read the Plain Dealer or ESPN comments section lately…sheesh! Talk about knuckle-draggers).

    I agree that Colt and Robo need more time to get the timing down, but Robo seems to be coming along slower than MoMass, and Colt was finding Texas Chainsaw more often before he got hurt.

    All I want to see from Robo is justification for keeping him on the roster in the future. At this point, he isn’t a #2 receiver. But as a #3 (or perhaps a #4 with Cribbs playing the Wes Welker role), he might be good enough to outrun a nickle back or two.

    In my mind, 4+ catches per game the rest of the way (or at least 4 to 5 “thrown to’s” per game) would be enough for me. Otherwise, it’s time to find someone on a practice squad or eating cheetos on the couch after being cut in the pre-season, because at the very least, there should be someone out there who’s faster and can at least be a deep threat. Robo’s not big and tall enough to be a “possession receiver.” If he’s not fast enough to get open, then why not look for another option.

  • saggy

    lots of great comments here. good reads all around.

    The issue with Jake playing: it’s professional courtesy to him.

    This guy is a vet who has taken a team to the Super Bowl. Say what you want, but that’s something neither Bernie nor Sipe ever did; so, in my book, he gets the benefit of the doubt. What that means is you can’t pull him in a game against the team that dumped him. You have to show him some loyalty and also expect that the circumstances will allow him to avenge his poor decision-making. Alas, it’s Jake Delhomme…

    Anyways, I think that’s the BIGGEST reason you weren’t going to see any other QB in Brown and Orange yesterday. In the end, Jake got a W against his former team. For anyone who has played sports at any level, to be able to stick it to someone who counted you out is priceless.

  • Dave

    McCoy is the long-term solution at QB. By some statistical measurements, he’s in the top 15 QBs in the NFL this season. And that’s with missing a lot of games. His one bad performance (and injury) was caused directly by having a turnstile ahead of him in the offensive line.

    Delhomme was supposed to be a stopgap. It’s clear that he isn’t really, but as bad as he was he’s still better than Derek Anderson or Brady Quinn.

  • 6thCity

    At Carl: “It is my belief that Mangini is playing a style of ball that is suckering the fans in by keeping the game close till the final quarter.”

    this is a little over the top for an otherwise well argued point. It’s silly to think Mangini is doing this with some sort of ill-will or even ulterior motive. Granted, it can feel that way at times.

    As for the fan negativity debate: I for one am not an analyst, just a dude that likes Cleveland sports, but i can’t find the downside in having enjoyed more Browns games this year than any other going back to small times. I think that’s a lot of what ends up happening in Cleveland: it’s just been such a long time since i was in high school watching the Indians get so close to bringing one home… it’s easy for us who have lived in Ohio for a long time to get ourselves all worked up over the minutiae of mediocre teams.

    I say Colt is a great quarterback for us not because i’ve got spreadsheets full of YPA stats to back it up, nor because i know someone who went to college in Texas, nor because i have any experience coaching because none of those things are true. I say it purely because i like watching him play. I enjoyed watching him play in losing games more than i enjoyed Delhomme barely win this sunday.

  • Wheel

    Born in 1958, I’ve been a Browns fan my whole life. I totally agree with 6thCity about McCoy. Watching Colt play has given me more hope for the Browns since Bernie’s demise. You can’t measure guts and heart – two things that have made McCoy successful. I find it hard to believe there are those (perhaps in within the Browns organization) that have their doubts. Holmgren and Mangini – you have your QB. Don’t blow it. Go into next season with the message that Colt is your #1 QB. Non of this Mangini ‘competition’ non-sense.

  • bobby

    I have a few things to say after reading all this so if it gets crazy sorry in advance.

    First- I think Craig you are off base with your assessment of Jake. Put Peyton Manning on this team and see how his numbers look at the end of the game. Not saying Delholmme is Manning, not by a long stretch, but the pieces around him on the field, and the coaching/ play calling definitely hurts him. And if Moore hangs onto the ball maybe he gets a TD.

    Jake is an average QB at this point in his career. I am not trying to say he is great or anything. But if you look at perhaps the 1 deep throw in the game to MoMass, he wasnt even LOOKING for the ball. If he looks for the ball he can make a catch for a big play, instead he keeps his head down and the ball looks like its 10 yards away from him. I cant blame Jake for that because he threw the ball to open field with his receiver right there. Then, about all the other passes to Wrs he had great timing. He hit his first read out of the cut. The problem with this group of receivers though is after you miss that first read break no one can get open. When Jake is in the pocket hes looking at Panthers jerseys just blanketing the WRs. Then when he throws it away you have fans booing and complaining he isnt trying to pass to a covered WR (no joke happened yesterday).

    Overall there is a much greater problem then the QB with the offense. I would venture to guess 80% of the defenses that Carolina had involved 1-on-1 coverage on the outside, a safety overtop, and 8 players in the box. Why cant they call 1 play that that sends MoMass deep 1on1, maybe a stop and go route? and a post or deep in with Robo. 1 of those 2 routes would get the safety and the other is 1on1. Thats where I would like to see Daboll attack, at least once or twice a game.

    Another thing with Daboll, can we please spread out 3 or 4 wide outs and run with Hillis. spread the D out and match defenders up with with Hillis. Even with the trip bunch formations tight on the line the opposite side of the formation is WIDE open for running. there was a 3rd and 12 near the 40, I believe in the 3rd quarter and they had trips on the right side of the line. Steinbach and Thomas had 2 defenders between them and the 1st down. Tell me Hillis cant get a first. THAT should be on the QB at the line, but just an example of what the defense was showing and how Daboll didnt take advantage later in the game.

    To finish (sorry its so long), I agree with Carl. Mangini and Daboll just dont play to win. YOu can try to say passing around to start the 3rd says it differently, but passing 36+ times (around there I think) with a QB who has a history of INT problems and a RB who had 10 carries for 70 yards and 3 TDS in the first half just is not playing to win. I just feel like they let creativity leave them in the 2nd half. The HB pass in the first drive was a great call and they dont try any other ‘trick plays’ or any of the sort after. Its like they script there first 2 quarters then try to get dull in the 2nd half.