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November 29, 2010A Unified Response to LeBron James? No Chance.
November 29, 2010
Yes, the Browns won. Yes, the offense produced 24 points. Yes, a win is a win no matter how it comes. But I for one left yesterday’s 24-23 win over the sad sack Carolina Panthers with one prevailing feeling:
I never want to see Jake Delhomme take another snap as the Browns starting Quarterback ever again.
If you didn’t see the game, you may gander at the numbers and think he wasn’t that bad. 24 completions, 245 yards, 24 points, and a win. In reality, the first quarter and a half, Delhomme moved the offense. He used the hurry-up offense to his advantage and made some precise throws to his Wide Receivers, something we haven’t seen much of this year. With just over nine minutes to go in the second quarter, Jake led the Browns offense to three touchdowns. It should have been four, if not for Evan Moore’s late first quarter fumble at the Carolina three yard line.
While that was all well and good, it was only a matter of time before the real Jake Delhomme would re-appear. We saw some shades of it in the first half – twice narrowly escaping horrific interceptions when he scrambled to get away from Carolina sacks.
Then, the third quarter happened.
Delhomme’s first pass of the second half, with the Browns nursing a 21-13 lead, was right into the hands of Panthers Linebacker Jon Beason. It was classic Jake – he stared down his target and didn’t even notice the Linebacker who dropped back into coverage underneath. Beason, a veteran and longtime former teammate of Delhomme, was licking his chops. Luckily it didn’t cost the Browns any points as John Kasay missed a 46-yard field goal.
Jake would get another crack at redemption. On the second play of his second drive in the third quarter, Delhomme “pulled a Delhomme” as they say in Carolina. He looked at his primary receiver from the second he took the snap and DB Captain Munnerlyn (one of the great names in sports) read his eyes the whole way. He stepped right in front of Mohammad Massaquoi and took it to the house for six. Just like that, a game the Browns were literally dominating was now 21-20 and the momentum completely swung the Panthers way. On top of that, the fans turned on him.
The rest of the way, Delhomme’s offense could only muster three more points, which they got late in the fourth quarter to take a 24-23 lead. In all fairness, on that drive, Jake was 5-5 for 44 yards.
The point of this is not to bring Jake Delhomme down, he is a nice guy and seemingly a great teammate, but at this point I don’t need to see him again. He is Derek Anderson. He can tease you with some great throws, but in the end, his maddening mistakes kill his team and their chances to win. Delhomme has started two game, both against teams that he is completely familiar with; his former team the Panthers and former divisional foe Tampa Bay. In both games, he made gigantic turnovers that changed the game. They lost in Tampa after leading 14-3 and heading in for another score, and lets be honest – they should have lost yesterday.
Bring me Seneca Wallace the rest of the way. His style fits more of the profile of what Eric Mangini and Brian Daboll want to do on offense. Not to mention, Mangini is still coaching for his job. A loss yesterday would have been a serious chink in his armor. That game was an easy win, only Delhomme made it harder.
What is a shame is that the rest of these games would have been so much more worthwhile if Colt McCoy were healthy. Sure, the Browns record isn’t great, but at least we’d be seeing the maturation of the QB of the future (yeah, I said it). Instead, we are stuck with Jake Delhomme and his back-foot-throw-interceptions.
If I’m Mangini, I start Seneca the rest of the way until Colt McCoy is healthy enough to return. For the love if everything – please, no more Jake.
photo via John Kuntz / The Plain Dealer
42 Comments
“…but at this point I don’t need to see him again. He is Derek Anderson.”
He is worse than Derek Anderson. Derek’s interceptions were more out of poor accuracy than stupidity.
I feel like we may be piling on Jake a bit too much. The guy was bound to be rusty no doubt and he had a good first half. He has proven time and time again that his decision making is inadequate. For this reason alone I’d rather see Colt. Someone mentioned in the other thread that is just who Jake Delhomme is; a guy who will wow you at points but ultimately make some poor decisions that could lose you the game. I fully agree with that sentiment.
Colt has the mobility to extend plays, the accuracy to finish said play, and the awareness to not muck it up with an INT (from what we’ve seen so far at least). Seneca does most of the same except he also seems to make questionable decisions, maybe it’s just a veteran thing that they feel they need to force passes and create opportunities. Not sure.
This knee-jerk black-and-white reaction is just wrong. I won’t get into it here as it’s already explained elsewhere.
Oh heck I can’t help it. This here couldn’t be more wrong:
“Bring me Seneca Wallace the rest of the way. His style fits more of the profile of what Eric Mangini and Brian Daboll want to do on offense. ”
Delhomme makes the throws to substandard receivers that loosen up defenses that stack against the run. Wallace rarely made these throws, and the reason the Browns running game couldn’t get going in Jacksonville was precisely because McCoy couldn’t make these throws with any consistency against a defense as good as Jacksonville’s (read, better defense than New England’s). Robiskie’s seven receptions yesterday says it all. Delhomme’s profile, sans the interceptions, fits exactly what Mangini and Daboll not only want but *need* to do on offense.
I’m not saying that the tendency to throw picks isn’t a huge downside, but there’s at least reason to believe that can be minimized as he shakes off the rust and gets comfortable in this offense. The point is that to treat it like a black-and-white issue like you do here is just wrong. There’s an upside to Delhomme that McCoy simply hasn’t shown he can bring with any consistency. See, e.g., the 1st, 2nd and 4th quarters yesterday, and the 1st half in Tampa before Delhomme got hurt.
To be honest, Wallace suits our passing game better anyway because he has the ability to extend plays with his legs, and sadly, it appears to me that we need to wait for plays to break down for any receiver to get open.
MoMass, though has been doing well for the last two games. So maybe things are clicking. I’m personally thinking he suffers from being a #2 WR stuffed into a #1 role.
Frowns you are 100% right about what Jake Delhomme does for the running game and the gameplan.
At the end of the day though, I agree with TD’s conclusion that we are done with Jake Delhomme now. If I have to pick my poison, I will take the uphill climb of not completing those passes to the wide receivers in exchange for not having the gut-wrenching interceptions.
But I agree with your assessment the rest of the way. I just have a different conclusion. I would rather see more ineptitude in the passing game as long as it doesn’t include those awful turnovers.
Brian Daboll will take the hit for calling “bad plays” with the fans because Seneca Wallace can’t make those throws, but I just can’t handle the INTs anymore.
You might think I am wrong, but my opinion is rational. I know what the choice is.
All I know is that this QB debate is much better than last year’s! This agony is a luxury.
Play Jake. Play Seneca. Either way, I’m good. My bigger concern is what we do with Hillis the rest of the way. He looked completely spent – and beat up – in the second half. I don’t think we can survive as a 1-horse team for 5 more games.
YOUR WRONG, FROWNS!
I agree that Jake has passing ability that McCoy doesn’t have but it isn’t worth the RISK of turnovers! Also starting anyone other than McCoy of the rest of the way this year when healthy is a waste of time since he needs the experience for building towards next season.
Do we have an official timetable for Colt to return? Has Mangini said how severe/minor this sprain is??
What is all this shaking off the rust talk regarding Delhomme? Has he been “rusty” the last three years? There is a point when solid analysis turns into excuse making and saying that that Delhomme is “rusty” is akin to being a Delhomme Apologist at this juncture. He is who he is….it’s laughable that some thing we should ignore Delhomme’s last couple years in Carolina and assume an orange helmet and brown jersey would cure his gun slinging ways.
Futhermore Frowns, you want to ding McCoy for not being consistent and instead say we should stick with Delhomme….at what point has Jake been consistent? You want Delhomme to play through the “rust” but not let McCoy play through inexperience?
@7: Yes, by far that is the biggest issue at play. I worry about his health and his ability to sustain this effort all year and still come back next season.
IMO, we should make Cribbs a RB…
He wasn’t rusty last year… he threw 8 TD and 18 INT. So far this year he has 1 TD and 6 INT. In contrast, Wallace has 4 TD vs 2 INT.
Chris: Good point. If only Cribbs could run . . .
Speaking of which (not really – I just wanted a transition to the play-calling issue), why on earth did the Browns not even TRY to get a first down on the last series? Why not put Seneca in just for that series, if for no other reason than to simply make Carolina wonder if there would be anything other than “Metcalf up the middle.” (Of course, Hillis > Metcalf – but the theory, and the flashback, is the same.) I really like Mangini (and am warming to Daboll), but this decision (or lack thereof) was one big issue for me. That’s all coaching.
Okay, back to the QB debate . . .
@clown – Not trying to be an apologist just saying new team, new players, new offense. He played week 1 then vs. ATL and now makes his second start. There was bound to be a bit of rust but I don’t think rust caused those picks, so in that sense I agree with you.
@Billy – Just playing devils advocate (because I myself am in Colt’s corner). If we say forget risking the turn overs by going down field lets just not make a mistake, are we just reverting to the DA/BQ arguments again? DA would force it and BQ being captain check down? Essentially, that’s sort of what I’ve been hearing from lots of people.
Re: last season, Delhomme’s struggles can be blamed and have been blamed by many in Carolina on an incompetent offensive coordinator, Jeff Davidson, who took the job in Carolina last season after only having been an offensive line coach for his entire career. There’s a really good argument that the guy has no clue how to manage a passing game.
Craig, I understand the desire to avoid the backbreaking interceptions. I’m just saying it’s not a black and white issue, and that there’s at least some reason to believe that Delhomme can cut back on those.
@Garry: How can we put Cribbs in the Wildcat, taking direct snaps, but then pretend he couldn’t run with someone else handing him the ball? Not only that, but Cribbs would be the guy I want running gadget plays like the pass Hillis made yesterday.
Line Cribbs up in the backfield and I can think of a dozen different things I could do with him off the top of my head.
@Garry
“why on earth did the Browns not even TRY to get a first down on the last series?”
This is one of the main reasons this coaching staff is so bad (besides lack of halftime adjustments), they fail to learn from any mistakes. Running 3 times once in field goal range late in the game is exactly what cost us the win last week. Yes, Jax burned their timeouts, but this playing for the field goal strategy is unbeleivable. Touchdowns win games. You have to know the opponent will stop the clock after each play, the only way a field goal helps you here is AFTER a couple of first downs, when there is no time left for they to do anything.
@Chris – Can’t speak for garry but I think he may have been talking about his toes. He was clearly limited sunday.
I agree with Chris…with Cribbs in the backfield, the attention defenses must give him would open things up for any QB.
Imagine a pro set offense with Hillis AND Cribbs lined up in the backfield. The ball is snapped…Cribbs runs immediately to the right for the swing pass, and Hillis takes the draw hand off. The linebacker that must chase Cribbs to the sideline takes one more guy out of the box to tackle Hillis.
If you want to take it even further, why not go completely old school with the QB under center, Vickers directly behind him, and Hillis and Cribbs behind Vickers to his right and left…power running game and misdirection all the way with one tight end and one wide receiver. Defenses would get tired from chasing Cribbs and bruised by a combination of Vickers and Hillis trucking them all day long. Plus, all those running options would open up the passing game a bit for the receivers and tight ends.
That would be fun to watch, and it could work too.
Chris: I think I get your point – my concern is that Cribbs physically can’t run (bum piggies). I’m solidly in your camp. For the sake of Hillis (and offensive creativity), let’s have Cribbs play RB as much as he can when he’s healthy. Oh, and let’s never take Vickers off the field. Don’t ever throw him the ball again, but don’t take him off the field.
[Use of the term “never” is not intended to be interpretted as meaning “never.”]
I had a choice yesterday morning to go with my wife to the Falcons/GB game or head the bar and watch the Browns in fustration as usual. Jake made the decision an easy one and I was rewarded with being at a great game in person. Thanks Jake!
Stin: You can speak 4 me.
(See what I did there?)
@Garry: OK. I thought you were saying something was wrong with Cribbs as a player. Yes. He physically can’t run at the moment, but conceptually speaking, we’re a run centered offence, and as long as the opposing defense is going to stack against it, we may as well make them have to stack against several different possibilities and mixing them up.
@Garry – nicely done.
/cyber five’d
Re: #23: I just reread my post and… no, I have no idea what a comma is for. I apologize to any English majors who may read that post.
“Delhomme’s struggles can be blamed and have been blamed by many in Carolina on an incompetent offensive coordinator, Jeff Davidson, who took the job in Carolina last season after only having been an offensive line coach for his entire career. ”
Frowns, are you in effect attempting to say that Daboll is the reason behind Delhomme’s struggles this year? Really, he and Davidson have the same experience.
I think it’s a bit absurd to assume that a veteran quarterback forgot how to play the position because of the coordinator, as opposed to the looking at the obvious reason; a declining skill set.
It’s a black-and-white issue to me. You have a 35 year old quarterback who is prone to throwing interceptions and making poor decisions when he scrambles. When Delhomme is faced with defensive pressure, he gets tunnel-vision and only sees his receiver, not the rest of the defense. His abilities will only decline with age. I don’t understand any argument where he is the go-forward solution for the Browns. Maybe you can make an argument that you would rather have a risk-taker who makes long passes than a player who doesn’t take risks and completes shorter passes, but I’m not on board with that. Turnovers kill your chances at winning (unless you’re the Jaguars). Every head coach in the NFL says that they’re the most important stat.
Chris: The only thing wrong with Cribbs is . . . that voice! “You ain’t know? I’m a Fathead!”
[Somebody please tell me you’ve seen that commercial. Awful. Simply awful.]
@16/Cleveland Frowns: “last season, Delhomme’s struggles can be blamed and have been blamed by many in Carolina on an incompetent offensive coordinator, Jeff Davidson, who took the job in Carolina last season after only having been an offensive line coach for his entire career.”
Wha …??
Davidson was our own OC right here in Cleveland in ’06 after Carthon was canned, no? Then he started with Carolina as OC beginning in ’07, and Jake initially had good years with him. We may not know if the problem is physical or mental, but if a veteran can’t get rid of the same huge flaw for 2 years, in didderent organizations, it’s probably not someone else’s fault.
More likely Ye Olde Diminishing Skills.
@25: As for the use of commas, as Ralph Wiggum famously said:
“Me fail English? That’s unpossible!”
At least you didn’t butcher the contraction “you’re” on these here interwebs (as apparently most of our noble citizenry does).
[Looking at you, Billy.]
Agreed. Yesterday’s game was a painful win to watch. Every offensive play in the second half had me holding my breath, waiting for the inevitable INT.
Living in South Carolina yesterday’s game was the only Browns game I would have televised for the year. I chose not to watch out of fear of embarrassment because I thought Delhomme would blow it. Boy, he sure came close from what I’ve been reading. In response to him continuing to start, is it possible the team wants to try to highlight what little ability he has left for a trade this off-season? Or do people think he is untrade-able at this point?
@TD: I feel there is a sincere lack of citing your opinions in past “Colt Reports” as absolute fact in support of your feelings on Delhomme.
Please, correct this in future updates.
/s/ Management
Not a whole lot to add here but i had to get a quick point out of my head: The best thing about this debate is that it logically boils down to “who is our back up?” Granted, our clipboard-holder turned into our starter and is now injured, all of our quarterbacks have had the same injury, and now Chansi Stuckey may find himself listed as 3rd quarterback, but at the end of the day we know who are starter is. That’s a rare thing and a good thing.
29. Harv:
You’re right, Davidson was hired in Carolina in ’07. Carolina’s passing attack and Delhomme were never the same after that. I’m not saying it isn’t necessarily diminishing skills, just that it’s probably more complicated than that, and in the right system, Delhomme just might not be as finished as folks seem to want to say that he is.
Jake showed me two things yesterday – 1.) There are throws to be made in this offense (mainly to our WRs) that our other QBs were not making and 2.) Jake himself is too dangerous (aggressive?, old?, schizo?) to be a reliable starting QB for this team. We just can’t afford the stupid turnovers.
I can forgive the first interception. Even the best miss a LB dropping into coverage from time to time (Manning did it last night), but the pick six was inexucsable. For an experienced QB like Delhomme, he’s got to be smart enough to know what to do once he’s forced out of the pocket. Either throw it away or take the sack. Punting is a viable, honourable option.
Personally, I don’t understand what his issues are. One second, he’s making a strong, accurate throw to Robiskie, the next he’s throwing one up to a blanketed Moore. It almost seems like he’s trying too hard to make a play. That’s why I don’t buy the diminishing skills argument. To me, it looks like he can still make all the throws which indicates it’s a mental issue rather than a physical one.
But whatever – I’m behind whatever Mangini decides.
Delhomme ain’t going anywhere unless Colt heals real fast.
Lets take 2 throws out of 35 and say this guy sucks!!!
1- Jake, nor Colt, nor Seneca should throw 35 times in a game where you lead 21-7 early. Passing is not the browns strength, and Hillis and even Mike bell were having solid carries throughout.
2- Jake made throws that the other 2 QBs cant make, or wont make. He threaded the needle a few times to get the ball to the WRs. He took 1 real shot downfield and MoMass just didnt look like he was ready or wanting to catch it. Its not like DA out there by any means.
3- Outside of 2 passes, 1 bad and 1 awful, Jake had a good day. I dont think Wallaceis a better option. McCoy should start when healthy, but Jake should play next week if not.
How nice is it to say that Colt McCoy is the BEST QB on this team!? Thank God!
P.S. I’m not trying to be an A-hole, but the Browns did win yesterday.
I know we all have good reason to be pessimistic, but when the Browns win you really have to enjoy it… you never know when it’ll happen again. we should take pleasure from a win, it’s why we’re fans. Despite having the toughest schedule in the NFL, the Browns have been in EVERY single game, and knocked off two top-five teams.
Also, remember who the Browns were missing going into the game – D’quell, Wright (who cares, I know), Fujita, Pashos, Cribbs, and oh yeah… that was their 4th QB change. You can’t exactly expect a clinic, ya know?
major co-sign to #38 and #40.
Was Wallace still too hurt to play? I don’t recall him in the game at all–(watched it at a raucous Browns Backer bar here in VA, and couldn’t hear the D-squad announcers). Would have been nice to throw a few wrinkles into the offense in the 3rd Q and keep them on their heels…..just sayin..
Up 21-7 and passing….well, let’s just say I was underwhelmed at that play calling.
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