12 Days of a Cleveland Fan Christmas- Day 11
December 21, 2010The 5-Hole: Blue Jackets News and Notes – 12/21/2010
December 21, 2010
Lost in the Browns’ disappointing game against the Bengals this weekend was the relatively big day by Brian Robiskie.
Robiskie was having an alright day with four catches for 36 yards when he made his first legitimately big play of the season. Robiskie ran straight down the field as the corner bit on Mohamed Massoquai’s cut toward the sidelines and then Colt McCoy released the ball vertically. Bengals “safety” Keiwan Ratliff took a bad angle on the ball, Robiskie made a nice adjustment with a spin and caught the ball with nothing between him in the end zone.
Robiskie scored on a 46-yard play to give the Browns hope and push his stats to 82 yards receiving on the day. This is the same guy that I officially wrote off on November 16th. So what does this all mean?
I guess I am ready to make a partial hedge. I will say that it probably is still too early to call Robiskie a complete and total bust. Obviously he can catch the ball and make plays on occasion. I guess I stand by the fact that the Browns were wrong to count on him this season as their number two receiver on the depth chart. They will also be wrong if they count on him playing like a starter next year too unless he does some seriously outlandish playing over the next two games.
Now, about that play on Sunday: I don’t want to take anything away from Robiskie, but we all saw that play. To say that Robiskie beat the defense on in Cincinnati would be a bit kind.
I put safety in quotes above because Ratliff is a corner who joined the Bengals after finishing his UFL season with the Florida Tuskers. He was a second-round pick out of Florida in 2004 and he has played for a number of teams including Tampa, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis and the Bengals. He was playing out of position at safety on Sunday, and as much as Robo made a good play, I think it is safe to say that Ratliff made a bad one. As a corner, he can take a chance like that on the ball assuming he has additional help from a safety. On a day when he is playing safety, he shouldn’t gamble on a ball like that when he is the last line of defense.
The conclusion is that Brian Robiskie will be back next year and competing for a job on the team. His contract until free agency in 2013 is his rookie deal, and there is no reason to cut him loose necessarily. That being said, if the Browns come to camp next season without some new blood competing for starting receiver spots, it will be very disappointing. Robiskie has shown some development this season and may someday be a serviceable receiver in this league.
Anything is possible. Even after his big game on Sunday, I am just not willing to count on it.
33 Comments
Despite the fact that Robo finally made his first big play of the season a mere 14 GAMES IN, I truly file him in the “disappointment” bin.
You must consider where he was taken in the draft and how much he’s paid when you evaluate his performance. At present time, he looks, at best, like a 3rd WR…maybe a 4th.
Think of it this way…there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of wide receivers in Divisions 1 through 3 college football. For the money, you could just as easily find an undrafted, speedy, possibly slightly undersized WR to play in the slot on 3 and 4 wide out formations.
If anything, Robo’s play has convinced me that unless a WR is a near sure thing (think Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald), then you should never overpay for wide outs. This is especially true if you intend to run the west coast offense that requires speedy receivers running short routes, as Holmgren and Heckert’s teams have run in the past.
For every first round wide receiver that immediately steps in and makes a huge impact, there are probably 10 that don’t. That being said, there were plenty of wideouts considered “busts” until they had the switch flipped and they got good. Roddy White is the first that comes to mind.
Wideouts generally take a couple years to develop into game changers. This is nothing new.
Appears to be open mostly on broken plays when his coverage guy has wandered off – very dangerous sign that he doesn’t have NFL-level quicks and smarts.
No doubt a second round bust but there’s still something about him I like. He had a fine tiptoe/sideline catch in the opener(?). Maybe he’ll figure out how to be a possession receiver when he has someone better to practice against than Eric Wright. Or maybe a new coach will look at the tape and say “He’s a 4A player.”
This is not meant to insult Harv…in fact, I tend to agree with much of your analysis…but I find the term ‘possession receiver’ to be quite curious.
What is a possession receiver, exactly? To me, the term mostly means ‘slow’. Unless, of course, you are refering to the ability to box out defenders and make catches in traffic. If this is the case, then a possession receiver, Robo is not.
With the eventual firing of Daboll (I really think it’s coming), and the switch to a West Coast offense (the offense run by Holgren and Heckert teams in the past), the Browns will need quick receivers that can get open on short passing routes. At the present time, this is not Robo.
It’s time to look for speedy, possibly undersized wide outs by the bushel in the later rounds and undrafted free agency. They cost less.
The homer in me was happy to see him score, even if it was a broken play and he was still almost caught from behind going into the endzone. (Seriously, I don’t remember him being THIS slow in college, but I digress).
Regardless of how great a non-factor Robo has been in the last two years, there is noticeable progress. The Roddy White comment above was great – WRs (and players in general) seem to be either given up on too quickly or held onto too long (I’m looking at you Derek Anderson). No one seems able to accurately evaluate anyone’s talent level anymore, myself included.
Possession receiver = a reliable, fundamentally sound receiver who understands where how to quickly carve out space in a momentarily open area, understand where the sticks are and when/where the ball will be delivered, and is brave enough to catch it even as he is leveled.
In the last era of decent Browns football our guy was Brian Brennan. A guy who worked for the Browns then would tell everyone that he had the second-fastest 40 time on the team. Wes Welker is not a burner but not slow either.
Anyhow, we agree, I think.
Not trying to be a homer, but I wouldn’t mind giving Anthony Gonzalez a try if Indy cuts him loose. If he can string together some injury-less seasons, he could be our answer at “possession receiver”. I think him and Colt could work nicely together.
Who is faster: Robiskie or Evan Moore?
@6 I agree with Brian Brennan. I would also throw in Joe Jurevicious in the time he was here. We need a first down on 3rd down and we threw to him. He was consistant and always knew where the sticks were and made the catch. Robo has/is a bust, but “possibly” he might do a little better with a legitimate number 1 receiver to open the field.
@BisonDele
Moore is faster. Ore at least a better deep threat. I’m basing that on the fact that when we played the Jets and split Moore out wide, Revis was the one that went out to cover him. Every time. Moore even beat Revis on a deep throw from McCoy on the sideline.
I’ve saying all along that Moore is the most dangerous receiver on the squad. I think the passing game really misses him, regardless of who the QB is.
In all reality we can’t consider Robo a bust when he’s seen like 18 different QB’s. Yes, he’s not fast enough to be a burner. But eventually he and Colt will get their timing down and you’ll see Robo used more coming across the middle on slants and some out routes; those quick timed routes.
When Colt and Robo get their timing together you can line Robo up in the slot and he and Colt can slowly but surely work their way down field with dink and dunk passes. But we still need a burner on the outside to alleviate the pressure on MoMass.
You guys are caught up on “speed”. Yes, that’s a huge factor. but if there’s no consistency with the WR and QB from week to week (practice to practice) then all you have to rely on is speed.
I guarantee Welker can run a 7 yard hook blindfolded and Brady can throw blindfolded expecting Welker to run the 7 yard hook and Brady would hit Welker with the ball. I doubt Welker could catch it, but I guarantee it will be in the area. This is their 3rd season together (an injured Tom Brady missed the 2008 season). That’s three years of working together Monday-Sunday for 17 weeks, 4 pre season weeks and all training camp, OTA, and any other time they just “chillax” together.
MattyFos…I agree with your argument about having one quarterback to work with, but Robo does not get the benefit of the doubt in my mind.
As of now, he has 25 catches for 240 yards. Nearly a quarter of his yards came on one catch against Cincy. He’s not having a ‘down year’. He’s having an abysmal year. At 240 yards, he’s the #7 receiver on the Browns behind Evan Moore, and Evan’s only been targeted 26 times to Robo’s 40.
You know what else is funny? In the 2009 draft, the Browns drafted the only wide receivers taken in the 2nd round. It kind of makes you wonder if maybe the 2nd round is just the worst place to pick receivers since they obviously weren’t good enough to be considered top flight, but you are still going to pay them to contribute immediately on the depth chart. Imagine if the Browns had used those two second round picks to take more offensive or defensive linemen.
Also, more interesting bits from the ’09 draft…
Here’s the grade card report from NFL.com’s Steve Wyche that he published on April 29th 2009. He gave the 2009 Browns draft class an “A”…one of 4 teams to receive this grade in his eyes. I like the part about “quick dividends.”
“The biggest movers in the draft, having traded back to No. 21 from No. 5. The Browns made economical headway, though, saving millions going in reverse and grabbing the top center in a center-heavy draft, Alex Mack from Cal. That was followed by doubling up on steady WRs Brian Robiskie and Mohamed Massaquoi, and a double dose of CBs Don Carey and Coye Francies (a sixth-round steal). This is a haul for the future that could pay quick dividends.”
@ MattyFos: never said Robo’s lack of speed is keeping him down. Lots of successful receivers aren’t burners.
Re Welker/Brady familiarity being the key to his success, doubt it. Once he figured out how to play the slot he’s torn it up with every QB on his last two teams, with both Matt Cassell and Brady on the Pats, even one game with back-up Joey Harrington on Miami.
I’m just wondering if he’s kind of a football Danny Ferry: a coach’s son with enough smarts and great teammates to be dominating against college players, but not strong enough to release from the line of scrimmage or quick enough to fool defensive backs in space at this level. Again, there is something about him I like and hope I’m wrong and that he’s having an uber-slow adjustment period.
i always think the Browns could haver gotten Alex Mack in the second round. They could have drafted
Percy Harvin
Jeremy Maclin
Hakeem Nicks
Kenny Britt
instead of Brian Robiskie, and probably could STILL have taken Mack in the second round.
They also could have had LeSean McCoy instead of Veikune or MoMass.
Still, I always wonder if they would have taken Laurinaitas if he were not taken the pick before Robiskie.
i think what i am trying to say is:
there is a smaller difference between the #1 and #2 centers than there is between Robiskie or MoMass and Harvin, Maclin, or Nicks.
@saggy,
The Browns had to take Mack before the Steelers picked. They were eyeing a Center. They drafted Pouncey this year. So if they passed on the number two center and instead waited a year to grab the number one again, I’ll say the difference in talent is incredible.
@16 – No real way to prove it, but Mack wouldn’t have lasted until the second round.
Robiskie ran a 4.48 at the combine for what that’s worth.
And the Bills took a center in the 1st round that year too. So then you’re looking at the third center in the draft.
I can’t change your thinking Harv, but if you think that a familiarity between QB and WR isn’t part of the problem, then you’re just wrong. But luckily for us it doesn’t have to be so cut and dry.
It could be a lack of talent.
Lack of speed.
Lack of consistency.
A reach in the second round because he is the son of a NFL WR coach.
A fan base that is too reactionary.
A “What have you done for me lately” society.
It’s probably a combination of all of these. You can get past the talent, by teaching to run precise routes. You can’t teach speed. But have him bulk up and at 6’3″ he could be a good receiving TE. He’ll get consistent reps with McCoy. We can’t change his draft position or the expectations involved with a coaches son. We can change how we perceive his draft selection, by giving him to the end of his rookie contract and just more time before we write him off. We can’t change society.
You lost me, Matty. If you could overcome lack of talent merely by teaching precise route running, any college receiver could play in the NFL. Route running requires certain talents.
I want him to succeed too, but if Heckert finds a fourth rounder or free agent who tears it up next camp, roster spots are tight, and Robo again looks like the same Robo, bye-byes Robo.
Any receiver from college could be a successful pro is he finds a coach who is willing to teach him to overcome his speed deficit. It will take some time but unless somebody is running in cement shoes and the defense is just jogging to keep up with him; A slower player can learn to run the routes and learn how to get seperation going into and out of their breaks. A lot of the separation can be as simple as dropping the hips and exploding.
The primary reason I’m defending Robo is because I hate to write off a player especially a receiver from the Mangini regime. The past two seasons have been so hectic. I’m just going to mention the play calling. But maybe Robo isn’t getting the right routes called for him.
next year is the mythical 3rd year. he should have QB-stability in McCoy.
we’ll see what we have in Robo and MoMass next year. Hopefully, we bolster the troops with some more weapons too (Malcolm Floyd anyone?). Until then, it’s hard to say. They both have had a few glimpses but not nearly enough to want to depend on them.
A lot to digest here. I tend to agree with Matty on this subject tho. I think Robo can have a productive career ahead of him yet and people are too up in arms right now. Heckert has done a great job evaluating the players on this team thus far. If Robo did not have the ability to cut it in the NFL then I believe he would have been cut this preseason. The fact that the Browns FO stuck with these WRs tell me they think something is there.
Now, I think MoMass and Robo are 2 and 3 next year. If by some way Holmgren gets Larry Fitz in here (someone mentioned him yesterday) then I would be on board with any kind of money. Outside of him tho I just cant see paying top dollar for any of the WR FAs. Therefore, assuming we cant land Larry, I would like to go for AJ Green this draft. I think Green, MoMass, Robo, and Moore would make a good group of WRs, and Stuckey can be shown the door.
Also- our GM drafted Desean Jackson in the 2nd round… just to throw that out there for people who think you cant get a great WR in round 2.
@ MattyFos and NJ
I feel you, but I am still sticking with my opinion that I’d rather have a down-the-depth-chart Center and Percy Harvin than what we got. WR’s are “playmakers” for a reason.
your choice:
Percy Harvin, 3rd Center, and LeSean McCoy
or
Mack, MoMass, and Robiskie
Saggy,
I’m in complete agreeance with you. I’d prefer the draft you laid out. I was just letting you know why the Browns drafted Mack where they did.
I dont like Percy Harvin as much as you Saggy. Personally, I dont think hes the same player in Cleveland as he is with the Vikings. Actually, I can almost gaurantee people here would be labeling him a bust after some less then stellar games.
If I had 20/20 Hindsight of the draft, I would take Clay Matthews, Max Unger, Lesean McCoy, then Phil Loadholdt over Veikune. Still leaves WR a mess, but its not like its a strength now.
And whattaya know, looking down the list, right after Maiava is selected Mike Thomas and Brian Hartline are taken. Mike Thomas is the kind of speedy WR people are looking for. Man, what could have been….
MattyFos,
i gotcha.
bobby,
I was just using Harvin as an example, but I don’t know how you can’t like the guy. Great pedigree, coming from Florida, and immense talent. But if you didn’t like him, you might have liked Hakeem Nicks or Maclin.
Just to throw in my 2 cents… I would definitely have taken Maclin or Nicks over Harvin, but not necessarily over Mack. I’m a big believer in building from the inside out, so that’s just how I see things. Also, if we had taken LeSean McCoy instead of either MoMass or Robo that would have been a massive advantage.
MattyFos, I like your idea of bulking up Robo, but I don’t think he can line up like a TE. He’s big enough that he can be a jump-ball, body-position reciever (like Evan Moore), but he doesn’t have the frame to be able to get a clean release from a traditional TE spot. I also think he’s going to keep improving and we shouldn’t give up on him, but I’m an optimist by nature so take that for what it’s worth.
Guys, remember when he caught that TD against Penn State from Troy Smith?
He’s always going to be good, because of that. Duh.