June 18, 2013

What to Do with Grady Sizemore’s Option

I crowd-sourced this question on twitter the other night, but decided it was probably worth a full post if for no other reason than the reactions were as passionate as they were diverse.  These sorts of

Pretend for a second that you’re the GM of the Indians.  You’ve got a pretty interesting decision coming up this offseason regarding Grady Sizemore and his impending $9 million club option.  You know a few things:

  • When Grady Sizemore is healthy—ala 2005 to 2007—he’s clearly worth much more than $9 million.  In this respect, picking up the option makes a small degree of sense.  It’s a short-term bet that he’ll be healthy.
  • You also know that Grady hasn’t been healthy for almost four years now.
  • Furthermore, it’s pretty unlikely Grady’s going to get a one-year, $9 million deal on the free agent market if you were to turn down the option.
  • Finally, you know that your budget is limited: whatever money you choose to spend in one place will necessarily not be available to spend somewhere else.

All that said, I asked my followers a question.  If you had your choice, which of the following courses of action would you choose regarding Grady’s option:

(A)   Decline the option and say good riddance, thanks for the memories, and bon voyage.

(B)   Exercise the option and take a $9 million bet that Grady’s knees, elbow, and abdominal wall are intact and capable of producing the MVP-level season that you once expected from him.

(C)   Negotiate a new deal with Grady that would keep him under club control for three additional seasons at a cost of $15 to $18 million total (AAV of $5 to $6 million, probably back-loaded).

Obviously, I’m making up the exact numbers on option (C)—we don’t know exactly how much it would cost to retain Grady were we not to pick up the option.  Some immediately suggested that those numbers were way off base—that we could offer Grady a one-year deal for $2 million with an option year or two tagged on to the end of the deal.  Maybe that’s true.  But it wouldn’t surprise me at all if, once Grady reaches free agency, that another team would be willing to give him more money/years than that.  I can just see the Yankees taking a bet on his upside, cutting ties with Brett Gardner (with whom they’ve been underwhelmed), and giving the keys to Grady for $6 million per year.  So in my imaginary scenario, we’re erring on the high side to account for the potential competition.

What I found most interesting is that no one’s first choice was (B).  Nearly everyone who bothered to respond made clear that the $9 million option just didn’t have enough upside for the club.  It was all risk, and little reward: the best case scenario involved Grady returning to form, after which we’d immediately lose him to free agency the following year.  The worst case scenario….well, you’ve met Travis Hafner, right?

But the remaining two options were split fairly evenly, and with what I saw to be some fairly sound reasoning.  Extending Grady certainly has its appeal.  For one thing, it allows us to avoid the full $9 million price tag in 2012 while still retaining his services: if you haven’t noticed, our minor leagues aren’t exactly teeming with viable outfielders ready to step into a big league lineup these days.  Furthermore, by adding some length to the deal—preferably in the form of club options, but perhaps guaranteed years—would allow for the chance that Grady will have to work his way back to form.  Perhaps it takes until 2013 for him to be the dynamic player he once was, and by signing him to a slightly longer deal, we maximize the likelihood that if/when he finds his old self, he does it wearing an Indians’ uniform.

But there were certainly some good reasons for cutting ties now.  Believe it or not, Grady will turn 30 next year.  In this post-PED era, it’s typically the case that players peak around their 27- to 28-year old seasons and slowly decline thereafter.  By extending Grady, we’d be putting good money in a player who, from a purely objective standpoint, is not particularly likely ever to be as good as he once was.  As I’ve argued countless times, teams like the Indians can’t rely on players over 30: they’re too old, to injury-prone and—most importantly—far too expensive for teams who have to swim in the shallow end of the payroll pool.

Beyond even those concerns, the Indians are going to have to do something about the first base void that Matt LaPorta’s suckitude has wrought.  I cannot imagine the team choosing to enter another season with LaPorta as an everyday player, and (sound familiar?) without a viable alternative in the minors, we’ll be forced to find someone to take over for LaPorta.

If you shift Santana to 1B full-time (an idea that both the front office and I hate), then you slot Marson into the everyday lineup.  This might be the only option if Grady sucks up too much payroll, and I would want to avoid this if possible.  If, on the other hand, you cut ties with Grady, you’ve got two everyday holes to fill.

Next time, I’ll spend some time digesting what I think the 2012 payroll will be based on some arbitration guesses, contract extensions, and a few other variables, but suffice it to say, we won’t have a lot of room to add pricey free agents.  So knowing what we do, what do you do with Grady?

 

 

AP Photo/Orlin Wagner

  • mgbode

    Ugh. OptionB is obviously not an option and I am thrilled that Indians fans are smart enough to recognize it. Grady just hasn’t been healthy and is on the downside of his career (so it will be tougher to regain his form even if he was healthy).

    OptionC is intriguing, but really it is a bandaid solution and could handcuff the team from aggressively trying to fix the OF issue (when in reality, if Grady spends as much time on the DL as he did this year, then we still need to fix his OF spot). If we can make this a 1year deal, then it is more palatable.

    That leaves one option. Sadly. ‘In-the-prime’ Grady was as exciting a player as any we had in our 90s glory years. But, those days are not coming back and we need to solidify our OF. I hope Grady lands somewhere other than Detroit or Chicago. Too many of our ‘friends’ on those teams already.

  • Harv 21

    “Negotiate a new deal with Grady that would keep him under club control for three additional seasons at a cost of $15 to $18 million total (AAV of $5 to $6 million, probably back-loaded”

    To just point out the obvious: that’s an “option” only if Grady says it is. If he thinks he’s getting healthy enough to put up good numbers in 2012 he might not want such an extension into his possibly last big earning years. Even if he goes on the IR again for, let’s say, 3 weeks next season but is otherwise driving the ball and running ok another team could easily offer double those amounts next off-season. If I’m his agent and he’s feeling reasonably good this winter, I tell him to reject an extension like that, can probably get as much the next year no matter what.

    If I’m Dolan, I swallow hard and exercise the option. They’re caught in a jam without obvious minor league outfield help ready (the sins of Trevor Crowe in full haunt). Right now an ok/mediocre OF free agent with the limited supply will cost you, what, $5-6m? And if the tribe does not contend in the division next year – a real possibility – the dip in attendance revenue will make a long-term deal another albotross, especially when he gets hurt again. I think they have to let another team learn about middle-aged Grady: plays hard, hurts self, teases but doesn’t adjust at the plate.

  • Pale Dragon

    I think the Indians have to keep Grady in the fold. This season the team started to win the fans over again, but cutting ties with another player from 2007 will work against that. The type of fan that reads this site understands the logical reasons why you wouldn’t exercise the option, but most fans aren’t that savvy.

    I honestly don’t have a problem with picking up the $9 mill option. Grady is definitely still capable of playing to that level. He had that stretch early this season where he was playing like the old Grady.

    That said, I think your idea of extending him is the best one. Considering his injury history, I think he would be willing to take the security of the multi-year deal. We should sign him through 2013 because the Jimenez trade established that 2012 and 2013 is our window to compete.

  • GhostToMost

    This is a little off the main subject, but dont understand why there is so much resentment towards the idea of moving Santana to 1st base. His value to this team is in his bat. The Indians obviously cannot afford a guy like Albert Pujols or Price Fielder, the player most likely to hit 30-35 home runs for the Cleveland Indians next season….is Carlos Santana.

    I would think that playing 1st full time would be beneficial to his health. Both short term and long term. Between he, Cabrera and Choo, were going to need those 3 bats in the lineup as often as possible next season if were going to have any hope of contending.

    Whether hes catching or playing first, Santana is a competent yet unremarkable defensive player. Hes not bad, but hes not going to win any gold gloves. Why not put him in the position where hes most likely to play 150 games?

    Besides, I think a competent everyday catcher would be easier and cheaper than a power hitting first baseman. There are no power hitting first basemen available to us, besides Carlos.

    As for Grady, I think they will most likely pick up that option and bring him back next season. I would love to see the Tribe decline that option and bring him back with a more team friendly contract, but my gut feeling tells me that Grady will not take a paycut to stay in Cleveland. Like Jon mentioned, he can take a paycut and get a fresh start someplace like New York.

  • http://www.whitecollarredneck.com Narm

    I try for renegotiating, but if not, I pick up the option.

    The problem is that the Indians need more impact players, and Grady is a risk they almost have to take.

    Let’s put it this way – if we spend $3-4 million on a replacement outfielder, is our roster THAT much better than if we had to trot out a Weglarz/Carrera mix if Grady gets hurt?

    But if Grady DOES pan out, suddenly our roster looks good enough to compete. And if he gets hurt, the difference in patching together an outfield isn’t that much worse than a bottom-level FA.

    I just look at our roster and think we are close, but need another 1-2 impact players – before the hernia this year, Grady was an impact player. Hard to just cut that loose.

  • Lars

    Cut ties and try to invest it elsewhere. If he is willing to do the short term deal at a lower $ value (think 3 for 12 rather than 16), then maybe. There is no way you can invest 15-20% of the team’s payroll into a guy who gave you 2 good weeks in 3 years.

    I would much prefer to just move on and put that money on someone who hasn’t had two major knee surgeries and his ‘minor’ injuries that have caused him to miss most of this year as well. Grady is no longer a positive impact player.

  • stin4u

    Paying him $9 million isn’t even an option. How are they going to scrape up enough money to sign Austin Kearns if they do?

  • JRS19

    I was originally all for cutting ties with Grady, but after looking at the weak class of FA outfielders, I changed my mind. Got to bring him back at this point. It’s a big “if” at this point, but when healthy, he is way better than a good chunk of available talent that the Tribe would be choosing from as his replacement. And he could be trade bait next year assuming the Tribe falls out of the race and Grady steps back up.

    On an unrelated note, I would love to see us ship Fausto somewhere in a trade somewhere this off-season to get a 1B or some pitching and outfield help. The pitching market is thin, so maybe a team like the Yankees or Sox (thin on pitching this year) or the Rangers (who may lose C.J. Wilson) absorb his contract and take him on as a project.

  • khdenn

    Pale Dragon is exactly right.

    To me there is no question you don’t take the gamble and bring Grady back for the 9 million next season.

    The Jimenez trade this year signaled that the Tribe is “going for it” for the next 2 seasons, and the Tribe has said they will “spend” during that window. Grady at $9 million fits that plan.

  • Wacman

    The real scenario is: Will 9 million dollars = Sizemore’s production
    $0 = Any AAA outfielder we put out there (Carrera, Crowe, etc)

    I think you go with the cheaper option here and save a few bucks. Other than putting a few extra butts in the seats, Carrera’s production is not $9 million less than Sizemore’s based on our payroll. Use that money to pay for Asdrubal’s arbitration contract

  • http://serandez.blogspot.com Ezzie

    Simply put, would you sign Grady for $9M if he was a free agent coming from somewhere else? No. So, no.

  • GhostToMost

    The biggest problem in my eyes is, who do we put in center next season if we dont bring Grady back?

    Carrera has a long way to go, his defense has been subpar to put it mildly. Brantley can play center if we need him to, but he seems to be a better fit in left. I suppose we could move Brantley to center and look for a leftfielder, but who is available? No matter what there is considerable risk involved.

  • St. McDuck

    The Tribe has enough up and coming talent. Cut loose the glass man.

  • http://www.whitecollarredneck.com Narm

    The problem with cutting Grady loose is that no one has identified a player that could replace him.

  • Wacman

    @Ghost, Baseball Reference says Carrera has only made 3 errors in 112 chances. That’s not pristine, but compared to the amount we pay Sizemore, it’s not like we’re down a fielder because we didn’t resign Grady

  • http://www.morningjournal.com/content/articles/2011/01/31/sports/doc4d463b0cd062d819200129.jpg Return of the (Alex) Mack

    Everyone likes to say “yeah lets just bring in a power hitting first baseman” like it is easy to do. Fact is who will the Indians be able to sign? Certainly not Fielder or Pujols. So who is else is even out there? These days (in the post steroid era) impactful 1st baseman don’t grow on trees.

    And as far as a sizemore replacement? Who are we going to bring in for the minimal amount of monmey we are going to spend? Josh Willingham? Xavier Nady?

  • GhostToMost

    Wacman dont let the errors fool you. Carrera has been awful. There have been a number of bad routes and balls that went under his glove, singles that became doubles because he screwed up. Those dont go down as errors, but they should. Myself and anyone else who watches this team daily can testify that hes been pretty bad. If he’s our everyday centerfielder next season, we could be in trouble.

  • Scott

    Well, isn’t Brantley a decent center fielder? Choo in right, Fukadome maybe turns to play left. Shelley Duncan off the bench, and maybe a cheap FA or someone comes of age in AAA. I guess my point is, there isn’t enough value in giving Sizemore any money. It’s literally blind faith. He hasn’t played a full season since 2007, and there’s no reason to think that even 2 million a year would make him any more likely to be healthy.
    That said – let’s say they do want to keep him. Is it so crazy to think he could become a utility guy or maybe (just maybe) put HIM at 1st base? It could save him all that wear and tear on his body.
    Just a thought.

  • mgbode

    @Ghost – yes, Zeke has had his share of issues in CF. I wouldn’t go as far as saying he was awful, but he has not been good (or average) either.

    if we do need to make him our CF next year, then I hope we get him into a fall league somewhere to get more rep’s and tutoring.

  • http://www.morningjournal.com/content/articles/2011/01/31/sports/doc4d463b0cd062d819200129.jpg Return of the (Alex) Mack

    @ scott: I dont think Fukadome is under contract for next season

  • GhostToMost

    As far as I know Fukudome has never played leftfield, otherwise that might not be a terrible idea. I like Fukudome and would like to see him back if they can find a spot for him. I dont know if he would be open to a bench/platoon role though.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/ Rick

    Fukudome’s contract details:

    4 years/$48M (2008-11)

    signed by Cubs as a free agent from Japan 12/12/07
    $4M signing bonus
    08:$6M, 09:$11.5M, 10:$13M, 11:$13.5M
    no-trade protection
    club must sign Fukudome to an extension by 11/15/2011 or release him, allowing him to become a free agent
    award bonuses: $0.3M each for MVP, WS MVP, $0.2M for LCS MVP, $0.1M Silver Slugger, $75,000 each for Gold Glove, All Star
    perks: 8 first-class round-trip air tickets between Japan and Chicago for family each year, personal trainer, masseuse, interpreter, visa expenses, $25,000 annually in moving expenses, vehicle during spring training and regular season
    Fukudome to make annual donation to club charity
    acquired by Cleveland in trade from Chicago Cubs 7/28/11 (Indians pay $775,000 of remaining 2011 salary)

  • Jack

    My god, this question is so stupid.

    He’s not good at baseball anymore.

    At any aspect of the game.

    He can’t hit for power. Can’t hit period. Is not very fast. Does not look confident in the outfield because he is afraid of hurting his body. His arm is a huge liability.

    I feel like I’m on crazy pills…

    He is a below-average baseball player in nearly every facet of the game at his current age.

  • Scott

    So then what are the odds of taking the Sizemore money and giving some of it to Fukedome? He doesn’t have much power, but he’s durable, hits doubles like a mad-man, and can play 2 outfield positions. Hell, put him in Center if the don’t want him in Left. Although I’d like to see him in left and Brantley in center.
    It still leaves a gap in the offense in terms of power since you basically have none in the outfield. But at least you’ll have solid all-around players in Choo, Brantley, and Fukedome. Let Sizemore walk…. (or hobble)

  • http://www.60bpm.com/ Robbie

    If they can negotiate multiple years at a discounted rate, I’m for keeping Grady Sizemore in an Indians uniform. If he declines that option, then I think the Indians should decline their own option and dedicate that $9 million into securing the current young talent they believe they have OR adding $9 million onto the most they were willing to offer a premiere free-agent this off-season and see if that can get it done.

  • nj

    This would be an easy question if there were better options. Or even clearer options, a guy in the minors say. Sadly, that’s not the case. I say bring Sizemore back. Even this year, he showed he can still play when healthy. In reality, he played pretty well. It was a different kind of game (power and Ks), less complete than his prime, but still valueable.

    Also, Marson playing everyday wouldn’t be the worst thing ever. That’s been my latest point to harp on: Lou has actually been a very useful player for us (statistically and empirically speaking) this year in limited time. His WAR/games is comparable to that of Brantley.

    I’m with Ghost @4 as far as coming around to the idea of Santana at 1st. Is it perfect? No. But rather than try to find an answer at first, I’d run CS out there, put Marson at catcher, and use our resources to address the outfield.

  • Albert

    Call me crazy but I still think Sizemore has something left in the tank. When he came off of the DL in April, he was absolutely raking. It seemed like he’d get a home run and a double every game. The injuries are certainly alarming, but he is an asset to the team.

  • nj

    @23 – Grady actually showed pretty good power considering that he came off after a year of rehab and was dealing with other injuries as well.

  • Ghost To Most

    We saw back in April that Grady can still be a force if hes anywhere near 100 percent. And I get that people are tired of the “if hes healthy” argument, but even if we decline the option and save 9 million dollars, what are we going to spend that money on? Even a guy like Willingham is probably out of our price range. Then were probably looking at a Jason Michaels, Trot Nixon or Austin Kearns type of player or players. We could probably get Ryan Ludwick if we wanted, but would we really want to?

    Either we take a chance on a 30 something platoon kind of guy who was never that great to begin with, or we take a chance and bring back Sizemore hoping that we can milk 120-130 games out of him next season. Either way, its a gamble.

  • JeBron Lames

    Why don’t they just decline the option on Grady and decline Fausto’s as well? Use some of that money to keep Fukudome here for another year as a fourth outfielder option. Go after Josh Willingham to play left field, and move Brantley to center. Sign a quality left-handed starter like Jonathan Sanchez to solidify the rotation. If they don’t feel LaPorta is the answer at first base, throw Willingham over there and either let Thomas Neal have a shot in the majors, or…dare I say it Shelley Duncan in left again. If that scares you, shift Brantley back to left and have Fukudome play center. Willingham solves a lot of the problems if only the Tribe is aggressive enough to sign him.

  • christopher

    “if we decline the option and save 9 million dollars, what are we going to spend that money on?”

    starting pitching, a first baseman or catcher depending on what the decision is with Santana, a real DH, more $1 dog nights, etc.

    there are plenty areas of need and to me OF is not the top priority at the moment. We know we have 2 years to get that ring and then we rebuild again. Choo, Brantley, Fukodome, Carrera and maybe a player acquired mid-season work in the OF for the next two years.

    We aren’t getting that ring without first addressing the starting pitching situation. Carmona will be gone, Carrasco is out for all next year, Huff is back to his old ways and Columbus is empty.

    After that is addressed we are still staring down what we are doing with 1st base/catcher and DH. Yes i said it DH. Thome will retire and Hafner needs to be taken out to pasture with Sizemore.

    So you cut Carmona and Sizemore to get an instant $15 million in your pocket to be used to address the real areas of concern.

  • Ghost To Most

    So we decline the options on Carmona and Sizemore, saving 15 million dollars.

    With that 15 million were going to be able to sign a 1st baseman or catcher, a starting pitcher AND a DH? You really think we can get 3 impact players for 15 million bucks?

    Let me start by asking you this, what 1st basemen will be available this offseason who are also in our price range? Carlos Pena is out there, but he alone would likely take up most of that 15 million.

  • Ghost To Most

    Another thing to consider, the Indians payroll will increase next season with or without Carmona and Sizemore. Paul Hoynes wrote an article last week saying that our payroll could be as high as 70 million if they keep Grady and Fausto.

    Even if they do decline those options (Grady and Fausto) that doesnt necessarily mean they will have 15 million extra dollars laying around to spend in free agency. Our options will be limited with or without Sizemore and Carmona. People have it in there heads that were going to sign Josh Willingham, a power hitting first baseman, a catcher AND still squeeze in a starting pitcher. Its not realistic to think the Tribe will be active in free agency other than to sign a bargain basement Orlando Cabrera/Austin Kearns type of player.

  • Ghost To Most

    *their heads

  • nj

    Man, I’ve got major worries about signing Josh Willingham long term (which we’d probably have to do). 33 years old… Good, not great, power. It’s easy to say “sign him”, but what if it’s four years at $10+M per? I’m bad guessing a guys worth, but after Peralta and Werth last year I’ve concluded that whatever I guess is probably low.

    That’s the problem with the “invest the Carmona/Sizemore money” argument. Even if that $15M can buy you something decent in ’12, we’ll probably have to sign it through ’15 or some thing ridiculous, screwing the organization in the future.

    As bad as Carmona/Sizemore may be, we know that they’ll be gone. That’s why I say, either extend them or cut them. If you cut them, don’t waste that money on B or C list free agents. Invest in the draft or hope to find lightning in a bottle with the D-listers and hope your current roster gels and stays healthy in ’12 and ’13.

  • nj

    Completely agree Ghost. It’s like people haven’t noticed the absurd salaries (and long term contracts) that FAs in baseball demand.

    On Willingham’s Baseball-Reference page, one of the players listed as “similar batting through the same age” is Jayson Werth. And look what that guy got paid. Even if JW is worth HALF of Werth, he’ll be 15% of your payroll for the next four years.

  • mgbode

    I disagree that Willingham will get a 4yr/$40mil contract.

    For one, Werth’s OPS+ was 120,121,129,144 going into his FA. Obviously, Washington bought ‘high’ on an older player who had a career year (97 this year).

    Willingham has been steady around 120 for OPS+ the past 7 seasons, but is also entering his ‘decline’ age.

    Also, he just signed a 1year/$6mil contract with Oakland last offseason, had a nearly identical year (from ‘advanced’ stats), and is a year older.

    I would think 3yrs/$24mil will be around his target number and he will probably settle in around $21mil. I would take Willingham for that number.

  • Ghost To Most

    Willingham will be 33 years old next February. The Indians signing him to a 3 year deal in the neighborhood of 20-25 million dollars would be much more risky than rolling the dice on Grady for 1 more year at 9 million. This could very well be Willinghams last “big” season. In 2 years he could very well be Austin Kearns part deux. Then what do we do?

    Declining the options of Sizemore and Carmona may free up SOME cash for next season, but what about 2013, 14 and 15? Most decent players will want at least a 2 year deal, which we cant really afford to do, which means we’ll be stuck scraping the bottom of the barrel for the Orlando Cabrera’s and Austin Kearns.

    Ive read that guys like Choo and Cabrera among others will be eligible for arbitration, some of our current players under contract will be getting raises. Grady and Fausto being gone doesnt mean that we’ll get to go on a mini spending spree in the offseason.

    I can relate to those who want Grady gone because I feel the same way about Carmona. Theres a part of me that never wants to see him in an Indian uniform again. However, kicking him loose probably means we bring in a Carl Pavano type of pitcher to replace him. As much as it hurts me to say this, we might be better off rolling the dice on Fausto for one more year than to bring in some 35 year old pitcher on his last leg.

    I hope the Indians can find a way to make some moves in the offseason. But realistically, our best bet for next season is probably to retain the guys we have, search for a diamond in the rough (or 2) in free agency, and hope we can stay healthy for a full season. And by “stay healthy” Im not talking about Hafner and Sizemore either, Im talking about having a lineup with Brantley, Kipnis, Choo, Cabrera and Santana for an entire season.

    I really dont see the Indians making any drastic moves in the offseason, but we shall see. I didnt see them trading for Jimenez either.

  • mgbode

    Other ‘cheap’ options to consider:

    Brad Hawpe – can play OF/1B and should be obtainable for the same 1yr/$2mil offer he received last offseason. He is definitely a downgrade from Willingham (same age: 32), but he will also be cheaper and get a shorter deal. Backup plan.

    Michael Cuddyer – 32, but a complete wildcard. his stats are quite similar to Willingham. he could be had for a similar $7-8mil deal for 2-3 years and likely would be worth it.

    Derrek Lee – he has been on fire for Pitt, but that is just going to inflate his contract. he’s 36 and should be around Hawpe’s contract value, but will likely get a 1yr deal around the same amount as Willingham’s multiple year deal (he got a 1yr/$7.5mil deal last offseason)

    Abreu – 38 years old but still as productive as most of the guys on this list. Problem is he is coming off a $9mil season and doubt he goes for the $3-4mil or so he is worth.

    Coco Crisp – 31 but injured alot and likely will command around $5mil per year (current and projected salary). Too high IMO.

    Ludwick – he’s had a rough 3 years and would only be worth a 1yr flier contract ($2-3mil).

  • mgbode

    then there’s the ultimate gamble option:

    Magglio Ordonez
    36years old, putrid 76 OPS+ in 88 games this year

    But, 2007-2010 we are talking about a guy with a much higher upside than anyone else on this list. “If he can stay healthy” is the key question with him.

    And, he signed a 1yr/$10mil deal with Detroit last offseason.

    Honestly, despite loving Grady and hating Mags for their respective careers, if we were going to bet $9mil on 2012 on one of these OFers having one last really good offensive season, then I would place that $$$ on Mags.

    And now I have to go puke.

  • mgbode

    @Ghost – Kearns is a bit of an unfair example as he is younger than Willingham now and never hit the numbers that Josh has been hitting consistently.

    I agree with the premise (that he could decline), but I think that at $7mil/year we would have enough protection for that (perhaps even make it a declining value contract to fit in the younger guys raises).

    Then again, he could fall off a cliff and be terrible.

  • Ghost To Most

    Ok fair point, but what if in 2 years Willingham is more like the 2010 Austin Kearns? Which I think is a real possibility. Not a BAD player, just overpaid for his production, and with little trade value due to age and salary.

    Magglio is an interesting option. If were looking for a DH to split time with Hafner (which we need) Jason Giambi has hit 13 homers in just 131 AB for the Rockies. Hes a player we could afford on a one year deal.

  • Ghost To Most

    Hawpe has been Matt LaPorta bad this season, ok maybe thats not fair, but hes been bad. I dont know if he has anything left.

    Derrek Lee is a guy we could probably get on a 1 year deal. I like that idea.

    Cuddyer I think will get a multi-year deal from somebody, and I think he kinda falls into the same category as Willingham. Too old and probably too expensive for the Indians to risk signing to a 3ish year deal. Would be nice pickup, but I dont see that happening.

    Abreu would be a nice pickup if we can afford him. His numbers are way down this year though, so they would have to get him at a good price.

    No thanks on Crisp and Ludwick.

  • nj

    Yeah, I’d price Willingham in that ballpark too. I’m just saying – it wouldn’t surprise me if he ended getting a lot more. I’m not saying don’t go after him. I’m just taking issue with the assumption that it’d be easy and cheap to get him here. Maybe. Maybe not.

    I nominate as the penultimate gamble: Carlos Lee.

    Yes, you’d have to get Houston to pick up most of his salary, but since they’re looking to start over and have to eat it anyway, maybe a prospect gets him up here. He has seemed more focused as of late and has put together a decent year. He wouldn’t be a bad option as a DH in the AL. Again, assuming you can work out some salary help from Houston.

  • nj

    FA talk gets me depressed. Even the best case scenarios scare the heck out of me.

  • Andrew

    Does anyone think the Indians will try to go after C.J Wilson? He seems to be just what we need. Quality left handed pitcher with some postseason experience. If we sign him, our rotation would look pretty darn good. Masterson, Jimenez, Wilson, Tomlin, Gomez (?). I’d be up for declining Sizemore’s and Fausto’s options for that.

  • Rob

    Anything but $9 million! Anything! I’m not sure he could last a full season selling hot dogs everyday.

  • Steve

    This isn’t even a question. Grady doesn’t have to be anywhere near MVP-level to be worth $9 million. Guys like Ordonez, Pena, Guerrero, Lee got that much last offseason. You’re not going to find better bets in that group.

  • mgbode

    @Andrew – considering how good Wilson is, why would you think the Tribe has a chance at outbidding TX, NYY, etc. for him?

  • Greg

    The bottom line question to ask yourselves is this: both of these guys performances over the general course of the past 3 years have been far below the MLB average player—how much worse can the Tribe’s replacements possibly be for a fraction of the $16M options? Are we suggesting that we can’t find ANY outfielder via FA, trade, minors who will play average defense, hit .220, not steal any bases, strikeout 1 of every 4 times AB, have an OBP of .300 or less and hopefully not miss more than 50% of the season for a 1 yr deal of less than $9M? C’mon. Or we can’t find ANY starting pitcher who will be our 5th starter, stay healthy, throw 160+ innings with an ERA less than 5.40 for less than $7M? The Tribe can not in any way shape or form spend $16M on these two + $13M on Hafner—that’s 41% of a projected $70M payroll. The Tribe was competitive for about 120 games this year and basically got nothing from Carmona or Sizemore—without them next year what’s the difference? Take that $16M and find replacements of ANY kind and roll the dice. This is not 2007 anymore–that year was the aberration for Carmona, not the norm. It was the apex of Sizemore’s career and it will continue to be the steep drop-off that we’ve seen since. He may have one good year somewhere, but it won’t be here and it’s not worth risking that kind of short or long term money to find out.