While We’re Waiting… Out of Options, Jamison’s Role and Tristan’s ‘Upside’
December 20, 2011Roster Battles Shaping Up For Cavaliers
December 20, 2011
The rest of this season doesn’t matter to anyone other than players playing for pride or jobs. Â Colt McCoy has had a frustrating year playing for his future to be sure. Â Just his luck that he was knocked out for the game that looked like an oasis in the desert. Â The Cardinals are better than I thought they would be this season, but there is no question that they are something of a respite between games against Pittsburgh and Baltimore. Â Seneca got the start against the Cards and it was fun to see a fresh, healthy veteran behind center for a week. Â In the end, regardless of how Seneca Wallace plays at this point, it doesn’t prove anything. Â For this organization right now, it’s either Colt McCoy or we have to look for a new guy for Wallace to back up.
Last week when he spoke to the media, Tom Heckert made it sound like the Browns had enough tape to figure out all they needed to know about Colt McCoy. Â I am sure a good micro-analysis can give a good evaluator an idea of a guy’s ceiling even with a suspect offensive line or a lack of true weapons. Â That might be a good argument for letting a beaten down Colt McCoy take the rest of the year off, but I’m not so sure.
Colt McCoy might never be a great NFL QB, but nobody quite knows for sure. Â One of the biggest things about being an NFL QB is competing in the division where you get to see all your opponents twice. Â Realistically, I don’t expect Colt to have learned so much from playing Baltimore the first time that he will be capable of besting them this time around, but as the named starter and without a viable long-term replacement on the roster, he deserves the chance to try. Â Same with Pittsburgh to end the season.
I know Colt McCoy has been beaten to a pulp this year.  I know Tom Heckert seemingly thinks he has enough to figure out what the Browns should do going forward.  My pragmatism dictates  my low expectations for the Browns for the remainder of their schedule this year.  Still, it seems like a much more worthwhile fact-finding venture for the Browns to finish with Colt McCoy… You know… If he’s healthy.
Big “if” obviously.
40 Comments
So we’re going to tell this obviously talented QB with excellent leadership and sportsman qualities that not only are we going to have you injured and hampered by a terrible, high-school quality offensive line, and not only are we going to give you absolutely no one to pass to, but also we’re going to draft another QB and relegate you to the bench for good? Does not reflect well on this organization.
Do we want to win these games? I doubt it; the front office must know that the other 4-5 win teams may win one to two more, so they’d likely rather protect their draft position. Indy knew that they weren’t going to be caught now, so they tried to give their fans something to cheer about before the end of the year.
So, actually, playing Colt would be the smart move here; he doesn’t perform well and hence we’ll still keep a good position in the draft.
I ask once more: If Mike Holmgren fired Mangini because he said, and I quote, “5 wins is unacceptable,” what should he do with this current regime and their 4 wins?
Bringing another QB in just opens up competition. It doesn’t relegate him to the bench for good. If the Browns draft a QB, you have to think McCoy still has a leg up on the competition in training camp next season.
@ Blue Lightning: “obviously talented…” I admit, if you make it to the NFL you have a high level of talent.
But, within the NFL there is “able to play in the league” and “able to play effectively in the league.” I think the jury is still very much “out” on McCoy’s abilities.
Oribiasi, he said that of Mangini in the second season running the team with a much more aged roster that Mangini had helped to build. The “gotcha” quote games are too much like politics and not enough like sports for my taste.
He also said that before hiring Shurmur, before he knew he could trade down with Atlanta, before the lockout, before free agency played out how it did, etc.
Last year, with that team, on Mangini’s last chance, with his players, outside of Holmgren’s comfort zones, the burden of proof was higher in terms of wins.
@ Craig: Perhaps you meant to say “too much like the truth?” If Holmgren gets credit/praise for anything solid and inspiring he utters ever then he should also be subject to scrutiny for anything dumb or anything that is a flat out lie (No one saw the hit) that he says. It’s a two way street.
A lot of people like some of the things he said…for example, claiming that 5 wins isn’t enough made me very happy.
I’d just like him to also be honest with us. It’s not that much to expect/ask from someone.
All that other stuff is gobblygook. Lockout, free agency (HA), drafting order, etc., should not affect a declaration that winning 5 out of 16 games is not sufficient for an NFL team. It’s smoke/mirrors, or better yet, EXCUSES to explain away a terrible head coaching decision. It’s good b.s., though, I’ll give you that. In the spirit of Christmas, I’ll quote you some Scrooge: “It’s a wonder you don’t get into parliament.”
@ Craig
I wouldn’t mind keeping Colt and having a 3-4th round QB competing with him next year. I’m of the opinion that we need to draft a QB somewhere in this draft.
If we end up drafting Griffin (or Barkley), I can’t imagine how H-squared and Shurmur could possibly have him sit under McCoy for more than a few games.
I’m inclinced to agree. My question: if the front office is planning on drafting a QB, can Colt dissuade them with two quality games or has that shipped sailed?
i think we have sufficient data on colt.
what is unclear is whether he was ineffective due to the ‘system’ and ‘talent level’ or due to his not being that good.
if we start another qb in the same system and with the same talent, then we have a yardstick to measure by.
The last few games Colt has looked much more in survival mode than leadership/making plays mode, not the same confident spirit as last year. Looks to me like he is at a stage that it would be best for him to take a breather and watch, especially against these defenses. Last straw is injuries at tight end – non-blockers Moore and Cameron mean that Ravens can stuff run, blitz the house and pummel him more.
Not saying he’s definitely the answer but I want this kid to have another shot next year after an off-season and some added weapons. If they’ve already decided he’s not the answer his trade value might be higher before getting hammered by the Ravens and Steelers yet again. Keep Colt alive. Let Seneca play the mechanical rabbit on the greyhound track. That’s why he was signed.
I’m certainly ok with drafting a QB, however I still hold to mmy statement yesterday: Even if we could get the second coming of Joe Montana in the draft, having him start before we get the rest of the offense squared away is like putting Mario Andretti behind the wheel of a Ford Fiesta and telling him to go win. It just doesn’t make sense.
I would say we shore up our offense and give McCoy a shot for at least the first half of next season. If he can’t do it with a legit WR and a legit O-line, then he will only ever be a backup.
I just keep thinking about last year when he had a legit running game, the freedom to audible out of bad plays, and a veteran mentor in Delholmme. He looked really promising, and I think he’s being hampered by either the Shurmur system or the lack of talent around him. I’m welcome to being proven wrong but I think anyone who says they know one way or the other is full of it.
Oribiasi, he didn’t say nobody saw the hit. He said the doctors didn’t see the hit. He said that nobody who did see it SAID anything, which was true… and embarrassing for the organization.
Doctors and trainers didn’t see it. Those who did see it unbelievably didn’t say anything.
I am not a Holmgren apologist. I’ve pointed out a lot of mistakes from allowing Shurmur to call his own plays and not hire an offensive coordinator to wasting a year with Mangini if he was going to switch to the 4-3 on defense.
I just don’t find the 5 games thing to be very useful other than to snipe.
I think regardless of Colt’s situation they’ll probably take a QB in the middle to late rounds of the draft just to get younger and provide some competition, but I think we’ll see Colt next year as the starter.
IMO the team will benefit more from improving offensive talent around McCoy, than wasting a high pick on a QB and then getting a lesser talented WR or OT in the late first or second.
Had Colt had a better showing this year I think they would have stood pat with what they had this year. Given his performance I don’t believe he’s shown them enough to NOT draft someone, but he hasn’t been bad enough for them to be all in on a first round QB. If that makes sense.
I don’t see any quick fixes helping us next year. I doubt that having a new QB next season would make much of a difference.
Ergo, let’s just stick with Colt and use our draft on strengthening the offense. There’s always a chance that Colt will improve greatly next year. Even if he doesn’t, we will have stocked the offense with some weapons for the new QB in ’13.
@MrCleveland – Couldn’t agree more, my friend. We’ll put.
I think we go into next year drafting a mid to late round QB and let Colt have one more shot with improved weapons around him (RT/WR). If he fails with those improved weapons, we will likely be drafting at the top of the 2013 draft and be in a position to take a QB.
@15
Stin, back atcha. We were simultaneously writing basically the same point.
The reason I want Colt to play is because I only want to trade draft position for meaningful wins.
-If Sennaca wins it would not mean much and come next year we will not be any better for it and we would loose draft position (in all 7 rounds). Loosing draft positon also mean we loose negotiation power for trades.
-If Colt wins we still loose position but it is worth it in my opinion for his development
I still think he can be the guy we build around until we can afford to take a gamble on a ‘elite’ quarterback. If he ends up being that guy great. If not at least we have a team for the elite guy to make better.
McCoy isn’t the answer he doesn’t read defenses well and his arm strength can’t make up for it. That being said I agree with the other people who say improve the other many areas first. If they can’t get Luck(y) I think a top 5 pick is better suited elsewhere. I like RG3 but now isn’t the time.
Let’s just hold steady until we draft Tyler Tettleton from OU (ther real OU in Athens) in 2 years. He’s going to be the next Tebow, but he can actually throw the ball too.
@ 5KMD: I’m guessing a similar conversation happened on April 14, 1912 somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic. “Just keep the same course, it’ll all be fine. Full speed ahead.”
Not sure about Colt playing. I don’t want the team to win at all, if it means a better draft pick.
Did you know that date by memory?
Tyler Tettleton would be the Carpathia in this situation. Of course, the Carpathia then was sunk by a Uboat in WWI so I’m not sure what that means for Tettleton and the Browns come 2019.
I never understood the whole “let’s protect our draft standing” train of thought. I get that we want a pick as high as it can be, but if I had my way, a (healthy) Colt goes out and beats the Ravens & kicks the turd out of Pittsburgh.
Colt had his chance and he’s proven himself to be undersized, lacking arm strength, and unable to read defenses quickly. I like the kid as well as the next guy but a playmaker like RG3 comes along every so often and playmakers at qb are a must. Look what Cam did with a completely mediocre carolina team. Let’s not mess this up. Again.
Jay,
As always, root like hell for them to win on game day. But at this point, there are some positive silver linings to losing the last 2 games.
It all matters what your goals are as a fan. Some folks just want their team to win every game regardless of situation. Others are rooting for the ultimate goal of winning a super bowl. The Browns cannot win a super bowl at this point this year and a higher draft pick may lead to that in the future. So there you go.
I Don’t want to give up on Colt just yet,but I’m not sure the players are still behind him! Wouldn’t mind RGIII if they lean that way but stay away from Barkeley !(JIMMY CLAUSEN JR)
If healthy Colt should start, but they oughta run it by his Dad first to make sure its ok. đ
Too soon?
Jay I really like the way you think man!!!Overly simplistic but straight to the point!At this point I’d give up a 1st rounder to pound the HELL out of the ratbirds and stillers!
On the drafting of a QB question, I’m am confused by the false choice presented by some commenters. To paraphrase…’either we stick with McCoy next year or we draft a great QB now.’
Why can’t they draft an elite QB AND keep McCoy. McCoy heads into next season as the starter with, in my opinion, RG3 waiting in the wings. If Colt falters, you put in RG3 and trade McCoy while he still has value. Done.
And if I can promote RG3 a little more…let me ask you this. Would his size, speed and accuracy make the Browns significantly better? The answer is likely yes. He could escape much of the pressure brought on by a weak right offensive line (which could still be fixed through free agency or the draft).
Also, what do people mean when they way the Browns ‘can’t afford to take a QB high in the draft.’ Seriously…what does that even mean? The notion that the team sit around for another year with Colt as the BEST option at QB frustrates me. No team enters a season with a mediocre QB intentionally, even if they know they will be less than stellar overall.
Get a better QB and let him fight it out with Colt next year. I can’t help but think that some people will feel bad if Colt doesn’t cut it, because they “want him to be THE guy.” Geez…we sound like a bunch of jilted prom dates.
@ 5KMD – If it was any other 2 teams, I’d probably be on your side!
@ Ghost – I literally just made everyone in the office look at me because I laughed loud at that one!
Believe me, I want them to win at least one more game too. But if it comes down to better picks, I would want them in the top 4 or 5 as opposed to picking tenth.
Holmgren and Heckett have failed McCoy, the team, and Browns fans. It’s hard watching Julio Jones and thinking what he would have added to the team. At the time of the trade-down, I thought Holmgren/Heckett would surely support McCoy with a free agent WR. They did not. I thought they would draft/sign help on the right side of the OL. They did not. If Holmgren and Heckett thought the offense was fine going into the season, then they have proven to be lousy talent evaluators. McCoy deserves another opportunity to prove he’s the guy, this time having playmakers and a manageable OL. If he’s not the guy, we draft another QB in 2013.
The reason you play Wallace (and you definitely should, regardless of McCoy’s health) is that you get a much better picture of that offensive line and weapons that consistently get thrown under the bus. If the weapons suddenly look better (like they did on Sunday) or worse, you have more data to add to the pile. If, with a much better thrown ball, Little is capable of 100 yards catching and a TD and Hillis has his best game of the year, then you understand how important it is for the Browns to upgrade at QB. Of course Wallace isn’t the answer, but it gives us an idea of how much better a guy like Griffin or Barkley could make this team.
Jay, it’s certainly not my side. Was just trying to explain where some were coming from. I say pound the hell out of them, especially the steelers.
@34/steve THANK YOU! (and see comment 9.)
Heckert has been given a pass. Why? He has one pro-bowl guy (haden), one top tier d-lineman (Jabaal), many average (TJ, Taylor, gocong), players with underperformers (Pinkston, Lavullo), and huge gaps (I-line, linebacking, safety, etc.). He also said we are a few guys from being a playoff team. What am I missing: near last in offense, special teams and run defense. Only reason pass defense is ranked higher is teams can only run and win. Why is he revered?
Coke to you Jim. My bad.
coke not accepted; was appreciative of validation and wanted to return in kind!
It doesn’t matter who starts. We’re going to lose both games. It’s too late for McCoy to prove he’s the guy and if he looks like crap it doesn’t add any data to the evaluation.
The biggest complement McCoy gets, even from his fanboys on this site, is that we just don’t know if he’s the guy yet. If after 16 starts you don’t know whether or not he’s the guy, then guess what? he’s not the guy.
I think the Browns owe it to Colt to play him if he’s healthy. The kid has battled and I respect that. I don’t think he’s an NFL QB, but I respect his attitude. On the other hand, the Browns also owe it to McCoy to not ruin his life by letting him play with a head injury. The best thing for McCoy’s career is probably to sit.