While We’re Waiting… No Trade for Tribe, Big Brothers for Cavaliers and Fujita-stein
December 9, 201112 Days of a Cleveland Christmas: Day 2
December 9, 2011
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I just don’t quite know where to go with this one.
- Dan Gilbert (as I’ve already stated) is the only person in the NBA who seems to want me to be a Cavs fan.
- Dan Gilbert wrote an email after the trade had already been nixed.
- The email in question makes Dan look petty again at least to a great portion of NBA pundits.
- Chad Ford from ESPN tweeted, “Dear David Stern, Dan Gilbert and other petty, whining NBA owners. Go away. Signed, Everyone.” This makes me want to encourage Dan Gilbert.
- Anthony Lima from 92.3 WFAN tweets, “I know Gilbert’s move looks like it’s anti-LeBron and it’s a temporary moral victory (debatable). But repercussions for Cleveland NOT good” and that makes me want to discourage Dan Gilbert.
- Then I have trouble reconciling the fact that unlike the letter after “The Decision” this was a private email leaked to make Dan Gilbert look bad.
- But this email was written after the deal was already killed by David Stern.
- I already said that
- Now I’m talking myself into circles over this thing.
- I hate how little the players seem to care about fans.
- I hate how little the players seem to respect teams that are willing to pay them money to play basketball.
- I hate how we easily justify a player’s motivations to chase rings in the most glamorous locales as if as fans we should really care about the weather outside of an arena on an off-day.
- I have absolutely no idea how to stop this most natural of quests by the players who seem to have all the bargaining power even after the lockout.
- People honestly think Dan Gilbert should be quiet and just make his larger BRI split money.
- The owners signed the CBA too so I can’t necessarily disagree.
- The NBA is a free market except that it isn’t. Â The Lakers deal was OK, but the fact remains that even if the Cavs wanted to trade for Paul and offered a superior deal of draft picks, matching salaries, Kyrie Irving and Tristan Thompson it couldn’t work because Chris Paul wouldn’t stay in Cleveland.
I am conflicted. I don’t know what anyone can do to fix any of it. Â I am pretty sure killing trades doesn’t solve much of anything. Â I think I may just boycott any nationally televised NBA games that don’t include the Cavaliers (all of them.) Â We’ll have to see if I miss them. Â As I’ve stated all along, I have no interest in being an “NBA Fan.” Â I want to be a Cavs fan.
Anyone else wrapped their head around this past the Comic Sans jokes that are oh-so-funny?
63 Comments
It’s an iffy issue, but considering the owners own the Hornets it’s far more than petty whining from a “corporate” perspective.
Also, he made some good points with the salary stuff, again buttressed by the NBA ownership of the Hornets argument.
Finally, I liked the idea another person had in the other thread: say “Ok players, we’ll let you control your own destiny to an extent. But we’re going to have criteria to review every trade to ensure a floor of competitiveness remains.” NBA antitrust, if you will. Now, how that would work in application when players can become old and washed up almost overnight, I’m not sure. But it’s a nice idea for this wild west the NBA’s become.
Basketball is dead to me. That is all.
what repercussions exactly would there be for Cleveland? No more big time FAs? gimme a break, we couldn’t get those with Bron, def wouldn’t get without.
And Chad Ford can suck it
Dan is the Al Davis of the NBA. I think it’s great.
@1- Who judges “competitiveness?” How can you possibly choose that player X is worthy to be traded, yet player Y cannot? Shouldnt salary in theory be that judge? so matching salaries in theory is matchins talent (I know this is not the case). Its absurd to try to say to a team, its ok to add one guy but you cant add this guy because hes “too good.” maybe thats why you should have a hard cap. This just goes back to the owners screwing up the CBA and not getting any change.
– David Stern is nothing if not acutely concerned for the league’s image. He’s hardly allergic to big market superteams; the Lakers/Celtics rivalry of the ’80s ushered in the league’s huge popularity growth that he presided over. If this deal happened 2 years ago, or 3 years from now, he would have been fine with it. But this soon post-strike he can’t make it look like blatant star-player leverage can happen again, even if it can and will. So he’s taking advantage of the temporary power he has over New Orleans to massage the message.
– After reading Raab’s book I have a different take on Gilbert. Previously assumed any young self-made financial world billionaire had a lot of gimlet-eyed, cold-ass scheming going on. But this dude seems to be barely-controlled passion, 24/7, go for it and apologize later, or not.
It’s a poop sandwich all around, and Gilbert got hosed by his letter being leaked.
That being said, HOW DO YOU NOT EXPECT A LETTER TO GET LEAKED IN 2K11 AND JUST USE THE PHONE?
Gilbert’s allegedly smart. It’d be nice to see that side of him, rather than the vindictive/childish side.
you’re right Denny, he has to know it’s going to get out, why not call…. unless he Totes doesn’t give a damn.
The new CBA gave the owners some more money back, but they did not address this huge problem of players colluding and running the league. Free Agency is the biggest problem in sports. It’s not going anywhere so they need a tighter salary cap. The owners should have taken a harder line in negotiations. Now the players are going right back to running the league playing fantasy basketball building their own teams not the GM’s.
Was Gilbert’s e-mail *written* after Stern’s decision or *leaked* after Stern’s decision?
@Bobby: I know it’s close to unworkable in practice. But you would think something has to be done about it. Or maybe not. Hell, MLB is still around and that’s a joke of a league if I’ve ever seen one.
I agree that this is just a by product of not having a hard cap. I don’t really see what changed in the CBA that improved the competitive balance in the league. Were not even into Free Agency yet and there are players forcing themselves out. Just another flawed system like the MLB.
It’s really sad to see how money has corrupted professional sports on all levels. It’s becoming less about entertainment and the team than it is about trying to get paid and make yourself an icon. These guys are CEO’s, not athletes. The owners are just as bad.
Am I the only angry cavs fan upset that the trade got nixed? Another superteam = another obstacle for you know who’s championship run
here’s how I feel.
1. I agree with Gilbert on this one.
It was a terrible move for the Hornets. They giveup a top10 NBA player and get back mediocre talents that ‘at best’ will earn them the 8seed in the West currently and give them nothing with which to move forward. There is no upside in this deal for them because the players they are getting are what they are (and Odom was likely to be ‘not happy’ moving from his ‘reality world’ in LA).
The Lakers get to cut salary, get the best player, and set themselves up for Dwight.
The Rockets deal wasn’t great for them, but I understand the idea of building around Gasol and Nene in the short term. At least there is some merit to their thinking (unlike the Hornets).
2. Nixing trades is a bad precedent. It feels like the guys in your fantasy league who nix a trade that helps the top team. Yeah, the trade is not a good idea for the Hornets, sets up the Lakers, and long-term I would argue is bad for the NBA. But, all parties agreed to the trade. They should be able to make trades as long as it is legal within the system in which everyone agreed to.
3. What happens now with all this backlash? Will LA find a way to get CP3 anyway with a re-worked deal? Will this just setup LA to get Dwight (which would have been tougher even after they kept Bynum) and potentially a couple other moves that may help them more anyway?
All that said, if CP3 and Dwight ended up both on the Lakers, I may have stepped away from the NBA playoffs this year. I mean, what would the point of watching them have been?
I am 100% not a fan of “the NBA”. I like the Cavs. I want things that are good for the Cavs, and hate things that make it harder for them to win. Superstars always leaving small markets makes them more like to lose. This is some basic math.
Bill Simmons is an idiot because he is one of a few super rich guys who can move around and just get interested in a sport “in general”. That is not the majority of fans and anything done for these sports generalists will suck the lifeblood out of ANY league.
This was so much bigger than a Chris Paul trade to New Orleans. Many agree that this trade was good value for the Hornets, but what I take from Stern’s action is that the NBA is done letting players dictate where they will play and leveraging that to force smaller market teams to trade them.
Chris Paul will walk in free agency (unless the NBA caves and allows the trade). That can’t make Hornets fans happy. Players will have to sign with teams that can afford them. The way I see it this can have two results.
First, the small market teams with cap room can make an offer to the players, who will have to accept because top teams can’t afford them.
Second, top teams will shed salary in a desperate attempt to sign multiple players and we have the 2010 free agency all over again.
NBA should have improved Larry Bird rights in the most recent CBA and increased the disparity that current teams can pay its own players.
The owners need to lock these players out again and fix this thing for good. I still feel bad for the non super-star players that are simply trying to make a living and do what they love. I also feel bad for the fans of everywhere not named NY, Chicago, Miami, LA and a couple others that there is virtually no hope at winning a title.
If Lebron doesn’t stay with his hometown team, what hope is there? World needs more Kevin Durants.
And if I were Danny G I’d find the sunnovabitch that leaked that letter and hang him from a tree in front of my mansion.
I guess I am realizing that I actually hate the NBA more and more. It is really the only league where 1 player can matter so much, and with such a robust free agency system, player preference will always be too powerful.
agree Eli. As a kid it was my favorite league due to bball being my fav sport. But it’s progressively gotten worse and the league is now #3 to me. But atleast it’s still ahead of hockey, only b/c I can’t bring myself to watch that trash.
The NBA is dead to me. Glad the trade got nixed to cause a huge rift. Hope the rips continue and in six years it all detonates for real. This CBA was a joke on the system issues front and really didn’t help us “Washington Generals” fans.
Little Napoleon is at it again. I don’t think he’s good for the NBA or even Cleveland. He’s going to alienate an already despicable talent pool further.
The NBA is absolutely disgusting. They let completely obvious collusion occur between top NBA players to join the Miami Heat, but they disallow a legitimate trade to bring a player to a team that will perennially beat the players that destroyed the league. Unreal. I will not watch a single NBA game all year. I am glad I picked up hockey. Go Blackhawks
I agree with Fritzer, Paul going to LA means another obstacle for the Super Friends. I would have been happy to see the trade go down AND for LA to get Dwight Howard as well.
I dont care, the NBA will always be top heavy and the Cavs will have no shot at a title for at least the next 5 years anyway. LA getting those players doesnt hurt us, it hurts the LeBrons.
Does this actually have anything to do with player movement, or does it just appear that way? I can’t imagine the trade would have been nixed if the league didn’t own the Hornets. Gilbert’s angry because a team he owns 1/29th of was making a bad deal. That seems fair to me.
If they were going to fix the problems, they needed to do it in the CBA. They didn’t, so this is what we continue to have.
If I’m wrong and Dan is standing up to try to get players to stop destroying fan interest outside of 5 chosen cites, good for him. Somebody should.
The fact that people say the deal shouldve happened just so Lebron can’t win a ring is THE dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Forget Lebron!
teams should have to surrender draft picks as compensation for signing another team’s free agents. it happens in baseball and football.
@Billy Thomas – i am with you. to me, this issue is more about the fact that you have players dictating things. when you have become a FREE AGENT then you have earned the right to dictate. I don’t understand how it is not considered collusion to explain to a willing trade partner that you have no intention of not signing with them once your contract is up.
i’m so sick of the NBA. and i don’t understand what the big deal is with Gilbert’s letter. he was just outlining why he was pissed. according to the time stamp on the email the letter was sent after the trade was already void.
Gregg Popovich was much sillier in 2008, and he is INVOLVED in on-court stuff. at least Gilbert is removed from the game:
“What they did in Memphis is beyond comprehension,” Popovich said at the time. “There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense. I just wish I had been on a trade committee that oversees NBA trades. I would have voted no to the L.A. trade.”
@25, damn right. This is bigger than Lebron. If these types of things keep going, there won’t even be 20 teams in the league
saggy i’m with you 100%
I would like to see the NBA actively enforce its collusion rules. Players under contract with one team cannot reach out to players under contract with other teams in an effort to recruit them. You just know it happens all the time.
agree with mgbode.
the NBA owns the Hornets, the other owners are shareholders in that company. the other owners as shareholders have the right to vote on what is good for their business and this trade was not good for the Hornets business.
to take back mediocre players and be a perennial “middle of the draft” team is not the equation for success of small market teams in the new NBA. in order for small market teams to compete they must bottom out and find their window the right draft picks gelling with mid-level role players at the right time.
welcome to the MLB, er NBA.
How does this trade help the small market teams? How does it help the Hornets? They would have acquired 4 starters in this deal AND a first round pick. Odom, Luis Scola, Goran Dragic, and Kevin Martin who averaed 23 ppg for the Rockets last year. I wish the Cavs could have gotten 4 starters for LeBron James plus a first rounder. All we got was a trade exception that we may not even be able to use.
I understand the concerns about players having too much leverage, but whats the alternative? Letting them walk in free agency and getting nothing in return?
The stars will always run the league, I really dont think there is much of anything they can do about it. Unless they get the players to agree to a franchise tag which I doubt will ever happen.
Nixing this trade out of spite does nothing to help the Hornets, a team that is already struggling to stay afloat in New Orleans. Paul is leaving New Orleans one way or the other, why not let the Hornets get something of value in return?
No mater what happens even if there was a hard cap, the superstars are going to dictate where they end up. If you could get 15 mil. to play in Cle. or 12 mil. to play in L.A. who wouldn’t go to L.A.? You can easly make up the 3 mil. in endorsments to play where you want to. And (this is just my opionion) once you get into the millions in pay, is is more of an ego issue than a money issue.
I stil lget headaches trying to undersatnd the CBA and BRI and all that stuff. What I found out is that concessions, ticket sales, and even parking are BRI that the players get a cut of (before expenses) If it were me in an owners shoes, I would argue endorsement deales are BRI and shoyld be split with the owners and other players.
If the NBA is going to be run where its “not fair” in one market has more than the other then the players should share their endorsements.
Oh well…. whatever… nevermind.
Go CAVS whoever is on the team!!!
abolish max contracts for individual players. leave the salary cap in place…problem solved…
@Doug – how could you possible stop players from talking to each other? That’s just silly.
If you can catch a private Dan Gilbert e-mail you can catch players. Perhaps wishful thinking, but it’s obvious that the current system is being manipulated by the players.
@Mark
Exactly, do they install wiretaps on their phones to make sure they arent communicating?
The owners are pissed because they didnt get what they wanted in the new CBA. They nixed this trade out of spite, period! Should have played hardball and made the players agree to a hard cap and/or a franchise tag, even if it meant losing the season. The players would have eventually caved.
The Hornets need to win to stay afloat in New Orleans. If the NBA is serious about keeping the team there, they should let the people they appointed to run the team get the best possible deal for Paul.
Just read Simmon’s take on the trade veto…. what a pompous man! He says Gilbert and other small market teams need to realize the league is about the History. b/c “every kid” dreams of playing for the Lakers Knicks and Celtics. So apparently the owners of all the other teams should just be happy to be apart of the league and let the good players go there I guess.
@Ghost – As much as I enjoy Dan Gilbert sticking up for the small market teams, I can’t disagree with anything you just said. I think you are 100% right.
The NBA is dead to me. Plain and simple. So long as small market teams exist solely to make the big market teams look good, I feel no reason to support the league. Go Cavs, I hope they bring happiness to Clevelanders everywhere, but I couldn’t care less about everything else with the NBA.
Before you guys get going on this “how do they catch them,” it appears that Magic are bringing a collusion claim against the Nets for meeting with Dwight Howard.
@Doug – Yes, against the Nets. Not against Deron Williams.
I think that’s the next domino to fall based on last night’s stand by Stern and the owners. If I’m wrong, that’s okay. I think it’s a major problem and it is prohibited by the rules- if the league knows that something is going on I would like them to step in and enforce the collusion rules against the players.
@Tom +1
the grizzlies have actually thrived after the gasol/gasol trade
The letter wasnt as bad as some people are making it out to be
Maybe he sent it after because Stern was waivering and he needed to make sure the trade stayed nixed. Also, maybe Stern needed to deflect criticism and thus someone leaked Gilbert’s letter to deflect said criticism. Anyway, maybe I should write conspiracy theories for a living.
I am now also not an NBa fan. I’m a Cavs fan.
Watch, now that Gilbert and the other owners killed this trade, Paul will become a free agent next summer. The Heat will either trade Chris Bosh for a bag of peanuts or use the amnesty clause to dump his contract, and then sign Paul to a long term deal. Or, he’ll end up going to Los Angeles anyway. Killing this trade accomplishes nothing except handicapping the Hornets ability to get maximum value for their departing star. And the Hornets will have far less leverage if they deal him at the trade deadline.
Love Gilbert’s email, love everything about it, but I have to make this point:
Is it really a given that the Lakers would be an unstoppable force with Chris Paul? Why? Do people not realize that Pau Gasol is a really talented player and is the big reason that the Lakers were able to win recent titles? Do people not realize that the Chris Paul trade moves Gasol to Houston? I don’t see this move as making the Lakers better… if anything, I think they remain the same. Oh, and they also lose Lamar Odom in this deal, a versitile guy who really became a key piece for the Lakers the last couple of years. I don’t care how good of a point guard Chris Paul is… he’s not worth the combination of Gasol and Odom. The nixing of this trade will only help defeat the LeBrons… the Heat were never going to lose to CP3, old Kobe, and whatever other guys the Lakers were going to buy from the nickel and dime store (they’re not going to get Dwight… he wants to be the star of the team so he’s going to NY Knicks or Future-Brooklyn Nets).
@Ghost
If you consider Lamar Odom and Luis Scola as “maximum value” for Chris Paul we’ve got problems.
Acquiring mediocre talent make N.O exactly that…mediocre.
Seriously if this were the Cavs and you were being offered Odom and Scola in return for #6 would you honestly take that and say thanks!
Not me….bottom out, draft high talent, use MLE appropriately and shoot for the championship window or take mediocre talent, become an 8th seed, draft additional mediocre talent and be stuck forever?
I’ll take bottoming out as did everyone of the Cavs fans here. We all were okay with last season and losing this season if it meant more ping ping balls and high draft picks.
Ghost
PS — when I said “we’ve got problems”, I didn’t mean you and me, meant us and the NBA.
Re-read that and sounded awful. 🙂
Chris
Realistically, what can the Hornets expect to get for Paul? Odom, Scola and Kevin Martin are all solid players. Martin is a guy that doesnt get much press because he’s never been on a winning team. But he’s a good player. They would have also gotten a 1st rounder out of the deal. 4 players and a draft pick in exchange for 1 player is not a bad trade for them. No matter what, they are NEVER going to get equal value in return for Paul. Gotta do the best they can with whats available. 4 for 1 with a draft pick isnt bad and its still a helluva lot better than letting him walk and getting nothing.
Pair those players with David West and thats a team that can compete next year. I aint saying they’re going to win a title, because they wont, but can they win 50 games and be a tough out in the playoffs? Yeah I think they can.
And the Cavs have chosen to tank and accumulate draft picks, I dont blame them. But tanking for lottery picks is just as much of a gamble. Having the worst record doesnt guarantee the top pick, and even having the top pick doesnt guarantee anything. We could end up with the next LeBron James, or the next Andruw Bogut. But I digress..
The Hornets situation is much different with them being on shaky ground in New Orleans. They need to win now to energize that fanbase. The few fans they have arent going to sit around and wait patiently while they tank for 3-4 years like we apparently are. I give them credit for trying to keep that team viable in that city and the owners shouldnt be able to kill that trade out of spite for the players.