For Browns QB spot, desire can’t create opportunity

I hate that idea.  I hate trading down so often.  It’s driving me nuts and its not a very far drive. 

I’d like Kalil at 4.  Think its possible?

I still think we’ll be in a sufficiently crappy “way” next year to be able to pick a QB handily.

Besides, if we have lots to give up it’ll just make the team asking to trade that much more greedy.

I’ve got all of the anwers to questions nobody has asked.

It’s just a fun way to pass the time and avoid doing “work.”  We’re all in the dark. 

For what it’s worth, this is easily the best Browns-related discussion on the boards in quite some time.

The X factor in all of this is, in fact, player development. By going in on the draft, Heckert and Holmgren are saying they can find and develop players and the team. This is in theory what the fan base wanted when Holmgren was hired. So two years in (and actually less than two years given the lockout) and they’re still building and developing players, including obviousyl QB — and people aren’t satisfied. Such is life at the bottom of the NFL, I guess, but it does get headache-inducing.

For the record, as awesome on paper as RG3 is, I want to see Shanahan actually make the kid all that and sliced bread. Remember, when Shanahan got to Denver he had a fully-developed Elway to play with. Please name me the QB he developed into a superstar AFTER Elway. 

Yap all you want about potential and yap all you want about having seen enough of McCoy to throw him under the bus, the fact remains that Holmgren and teams he’s led have developed more QBs than Shanahan ever has. That alone gives me enough to give McCoy one more year – especially given the reality, as everyone here acknowledges, that he had nothing around him to help him. Especialy next year when Hillis flaked out. 

With three picks and the possibility of trading out (and for the record, my preference would be to try to trade to somehow get an extra #1 next year so that if McCoy does flop, the ability to move up for a Barkley will be better), and given that Heckert’s done a fairly good job drafting, I think this is all lovely conversation on an unseasonably warm March day, and that’s about it.

On to Free Agency, such as it may be …

my point was it won’t happen.   and I don’t see Kalil getting past Minny either.  they have to protect Ponder.

the other side is if you get your QB killed and destroy his confidence, then he won’t be any good either.

it’s a balancing act.

I’d like to move up one just to take Kalil, but I guess Claiborne is a good player and is Joe Haden-like.

I agree, Bradford quickly comes to mind.

I’ve never bought the “confidence” argument. Might you ruin him physically? Sure. But I don’t think Carr, Couch, et al failed because they didn’t believe in themselves any more. They just weren’t that good.

Go get Tebow, draft three or four offensive lineman, stuff it down the NFL’s throats… I like it. Couldn’t get much worse thant 4-12. If you’ve got to lose, may as well do it on your own terms.

yep.  and the Raiders are still paying for their JaMarcus sins ($1.6mil cap penalty for dumping him in 2010)

so, Washington now has 85% of the cap the next 2 seasons, 1 1st round pick (to use on RGIII) and no current answers at RB, WR, and a middling OL.  

it’s an interesting experiment at least.

it’s not that they don’t believe in themselves.  it’s more that QBs have to not be worried about a blind-side rush, not worried that the WR is going to break the wrong way, not worried that the WR is just going to drop the pass anyway or never getting a couple easy rhythm passes to start things because noone is ever getting separation.

learning QB, like anything, is a progression.  if you destroy the foundation, then you can never build-up that foundation.  now, a good QB can help patch the foundation on the fly (making quick reads, putting an accurate ball out, etc.), but there’s only so much a QB can do if he’s not being helped out.

like i said, balancing act. 

Shanahan also got a fully cooked Steve Young (after Holmgren helped mold him at BYU and SF in his earlier days).

Best “molded” Shanahan QB:  Jake Plummer?  or Brian Griese?

Two things: One is that I think people have a misconception that this regime is wedded at the hip to passing.  Its only one year, but in Holmgren’s crown jewel Super Bowl winning ’96 year, they had more rushing attempts than passing, this held true in the playoffs as well.  Point being, I think they have no problem rushing its just they want RB’s with universal run, catch, block qualities.  If there is a failure of this system, and it seems pretty significant, its that you need players that are very well suited for it, which increases the bust potential.

Now, on this quarterback thing, I think the only team that went and got a franchise QB and then built an entire team around him was Indy with Peyton.  Forget draft position, just look at where teams that have elite got them in the development of their team.
Brady came to a team with an established QB in the middle of a decent run, and he got to sit.
Rodgers same thing
Brees came to his team via free agency, lighting had to strike a dozen times for that deal to work out as well as it did.
Rothelisberger same thing, although he got thrown in, he got thrown in with a HOF RB and all world Oline. 
Eli Manning is the exception that proves the rule.  He went to a team rebuilding (not ground up like Cleve is now, or Indy did with Peyton),  Accorsi refused to include Osi Howuspellhisname in the deal and was willing to walk at that point.  Much like Heckert had a price and didn’t overreach.  You can argue that no Osi means at least one if not both SBs go away.  So if you want to give up picks to get an elite QB history says that you had better still have a price you won’t go over, and draft an elite D-line that allows you to drop 6-7 guys into coverage.

To me that is the end of “Elite” QBs

But even that next tier of guys, Rivers, Schaub, whoever else you want to throw in, none of them came to a team with as much nothing as the Browns have. 

I guess what I’m saying is that I see this idea that we “need to go get a superstar QB” no matter what is substantiated throughout the last ten years of NFL history.

So it’s not confidence but learning and development. That I can buy.

When ever two or three are gathered…

I honestly think it’s more than confidence.  Carr, Couch and Harrington were legitimately damaged.  Sometimes we forget these people are made out of flesh and bones under those pads.

How many time can you get your head driven into the turf by a 280 lb wrecking ball (and thats light for a d-lineman) before there is actual physical damage.  Those three guys had the physical tools to play the game, the lasting effects of 3-4 concussions in a 2 year span still isn’t really understood.

Colt’s not good, but I don’t want to see the Browns toss a ton of unnecessary money or overreach for a mediocre QB. It essentially puts us in the same place we are now, except now we’re tied down. If the Browns are gluing themselves to someone, I’d prefer it be someone who’s worth it. 

I actually think Campbell is better than people realize, but that’s an entirely different conversation. 

The corpse bit was right on time. Other than that, I disagree. Andy Dalton didn’t have an offseason etc. The ridiculous excuses that were thrown about this year won’t fly for much longer.

I hope I’m wrong.