A few additional Browns post-draft thoughts
April 30, 2012Report: Browns’ rookie pool assignment is $9.72 million
April 30, 2012The John Hughes pick has been slammed pretty universally ever since it occurred during the Browns’ 2012 draft. Hughes was even the subject of some pretty negative and difficult questioning by Kevin Kiley during his late (he overslept) appearance on their show this morning. Now the other sports talk station, ESPN Cleveland, has dug up some info that could shed some light on why they Browns made their pick and felt lucky to get Hughes. Will Burge has the report.
A league source tells ESPN Cleveland that Hughes would have been selected before the end of the 3rdround if the Browns had not selected him. The source said that Hughes had been fielding calls from multiple teams indicating they would select him with their third round pick. The Browns just pulled the trigger first…
It seems as though Heckert had a right to be concerned. The source also said the New Orleans Saints, who owned the #89 pick in the draft, were going to take Hughes if he was there. The Saints ended up selecting Regina defensive lineman Akiem Hicks, who is almost the exact same size as Hughes.
Maybe this explains why Tom Heckert was so dismissive of questions surrounding the pick and how much of a “reach” it might have been. It is certainly a compelling report, and if accurate just goes to show how much difference there can be between draft experts in the media and the front offices of NFL clubs who must make the picks.
[Related: A few additional Browns post-draft thoughts]
85 Comments
Good to hear
It would explain things.
I know that most the “draft experts” are full of it, but how could they be this far off on a guy?
How well does this mesh with the reports we initially heard about him not expecting to get drafted so high? It seems like a convenient time for a league source to find that people were so interested in him that they were calling him, but the kid, himself, didn’t know teams were interested.
I’ve always said this… but if Kiper and McShay were actually that spectacular at analyzing prospects they’d have real scout jobs with NFL teams. I hope this report is true because with the ground games in our division coupled with our porous rush defense last year, this guy could help early and often. Fresh bodies on the DL is a huge necessity.
Because the vast majority of “draft experts” are derivative of Mel Kiper, Todd McShay, or some other guy who actually watches tape and evaluates players for themselves. I’m also pretty sure that most of the media “draft experts” are heavily influenced by each others’ work, because if they have a vastly differing board from the heavyweights like Kiper and McShay, they’ll be ridiculed for being an idiot.
Besides, once you hit the 3rd round, I really don’t think there’s much difference between a 3rd rounder and a 7th rounder. Simply perception.
At least we didn’t get Dontari Poe
Or they make tons and tons of money at ESPN and like the job there. Not saying it’s true, just a possibility.
This here. Scouting for a pro team is an absolutely thankless job. Countless hours on the road (at least this is not as bad in football as it is in baseball) for little pay and notoriety, and probably little job security. Getting to sit in front of the camera at ESPN, even if you’re forced to argue with Skip Bayless or Stephen A. Smith, is much more desirable.
Yeah, Kiley just asked hardball questions. If you want softball interviews, they do plenty of those on 1100.
His questions were fair, but I honestly felt he was pretty negative all the way around with a bad attitude. The kid didn’t help himself by oversleeping, but they should have just canceled him then.
That’s a good point. I guess we’ll see what the case truly was in the coming weeks. Or not. Not like it’s that important.
You mean to tell me that all these “arm-chair GM’s” were wrong about a player?
Go figure.
It’s one thing to be a passionate fan. It’s another to bash and prematurely dismiss a draft pick because Mel Kiper or your favorite draft blog or magazine doesn’t have him ranked highly. Tom Heckert hasn’t done anything to deserve such distrust from the fans. He shouldn’t have to pay for previous regimes screw ups.
Sometimes i wonder if Cleveland fans are worthy of a championship because i think they might immediately start to complain that they’ll suck the following year.
I agree up until the last sentence. Sure there are some duds in round 3 but, most develop into starters. Meanwhile, 7th rounders are lucky to make the squad with maybe a handful of starters.
It all will boil down to either him being a solid player or a bust. Dqwell Jackson was said to be too small and slow to be a middle LB. Now he’s the leader of the defense and one of the best picks the Browns made since coming back. Only time will tell. Let’s give it some.
I am not sure why you are using “they” when referring to Cleveland fans. If you’re not a fan of Cleveland sports what are you doing on this blog?
“If true”.
Nothing about this draft screams we were in the driver seat.
It is convenient, but he did visit the Steelers and the Saints are reportedly the ones who wanted him. We’ll see. Not surprising that there are two sides to the story though.
” but how could they be this far off on a guy?”
JA-MAR-CUS RUS-SELL
That’s how.
by “they” i’m referring to those who complain regardless.
I get it, the Browns have been bad for a while. What i don’t get is the fact that some people around here will be negative just to be negative.
I couldn’t agree more. That Richarson trade seemed to throw the whole draft out of whack for us and we never recovered. Our picks seemed like we were in panic mode to get some of the guys we wanted when we probably could have gotten a lot more bang for our buck.
It’s a third round draft pick. Not worth getting too worked up over, really. I understand getting worked up over the 1st and 2nd round. Past that, it’s a crap shoot. You CAN get an average regular there, very occasionally a good player who really contributes. But the players who make no impact are just as common as even the average guys.
In short, I think I’ll see what the guy does on Sunday’s before I get too upset or happy about anyone selected past round 2.
Good point Craig. They usually are unbearable but at least fair questions were asked.
Keep in mind that some, if not all, of the negative “Browns fans” may actually be fans from other teams that decided to come to WFNY and ridicule others, just to laugh at their misery. I too also question people when they come on-line and insult H&H’s intellegence & integrity because they made a decision that doesn’t agree with their own. Like those so called fans own the team or something.
The entire interview was a joke. I honestly turned it off. They were taking out their lame adult-rage on this kid.
I’m still in shock at how people overreact on where people are picked in the draft. Experts that do this wouldn’t even be hired by nfl teams to scout. I”m glad we are done with the draft and we can wait and see what this draft class brings us before criticizing any picks. I have a little faith in Heckert and we’ll see what happens but they built up the d-line and o-line so I’m a little content. I don’t care whatever happens I will always be a little devastated that we didn’t grab Decastro at #22 when we had the chance but if Weeden plays well I will get over it quickly.
Kiper has his schtick and has been doing it for 25 years. The guy likes the camera eye and wouldn’t trade his ESPN job for anything. McShay is an average run of the mill scout. But they’re just 2 guys. If you read, say, the surveys that Bob McGinn does every year for the Milwaukee paper you get a sense how wide the dispersion is in the opinions of professional scouts. The draft blogosphere/magazine world is basically just an echo chamber of guys making minor tweaks on Kiper’s Big Board. The draft has 32 independent scouting teams trying to one-up each other. If you think a guy has a 3rd round grade there’s a pretty good chance there’s another team out there who sees the same thing. You can’t leave guys sitting at the top of your board for long without losing them.
We moved up in the first round because Heckert feared someone would grab TR. We picked Weeden early because the Browns feared he wouldn’t be there at 37. Last year, we picked Phil Taylor early because the Browns feared another team would take him. We picked Hughes early because…crap, anyone see a pattern with the trigger happy Browns?
@floyd – Agree with your post. Heckert is a pro with a good track record. He has shown an ability to pick players that will work in a system. He knows more about the players than I will ever know.
That doesn’t mean that I wasn’t disappointed when they passed on DeCastro at #22. The Steelers picking him up at #24 was a punch to the gut…
I hope Shurmur and Childress adjust their rigid offense so that Weeden can be successful.
Maybe they should have another press conference to talk about this pick.
“Hughes had been fielding calls from multiple teams indicating they would select him with their third round pick.” – unnamed source
“Honestly, I invited all of my family to come over tomorrow morning to watch the draft, so I was thinking more fourth round.” – john hughes
so obviously hughes was not getting calls about getting picked in the 3rd round and this is just made up. considering hughes has zero incentive to hide/lie about this (and even less reason to keep his family from enjoying in the celebration), this source is blatantly lying. hughes did not field calls from multiple teams indicating he would go in the 3rd.
http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2012/04/john_hughes_selected_by_clevel.html
I remember him saying other teams showed interest (I think he said Bears and Saints), but again, that doesn’t mean 3rd round interest.
Like Pat said, it’s not that important, and really after the second round, I feel that things are such a crapshoot, that if you like a guy that much, screw it, and take him, and who cares where everyone else thinks he was on the other 29 teams’ boards.
I guess it’s that I’ve become so distrustful of this organization, that when I hear reports like this, I’m inclined to call BS on the spot and assume its just some kind of spin.
And pays much better. Every NFL scout wishes they could be the next Kiper or McShay.
Nice to hear others were so interested in him, makes me more confident of the guy.
You know, the one thing that I didn’t really understand was that, all else aside, this guy was productive for the Bearcats last year. 12.5 tackles for loss and 5 sacks is really good for a run-stuffing defensive tackle. Granted, the Big East is nothing to write home about, but that’s still some good numbers. Hopefully Hughes comes in with a chip on his shoulder and works/studies really hard.
and as our 3rd DT, there really isn’t much more to ask from him. Heckert does come from Philly where Andy Reid (and the late Jim Johnson RIP) believed heavily in investing resources into the DL for rotations. Hughes may have not been the “obvious” pick, but it doesn’t mean he wasn’t the right one. we’ll see.
and we believe this report why?
perhaps you also believe washington got their griffin deal due to their relationship with jeff fisher.
‘league source’ = tom heckert.
1. the guy was a reach
2. back-up defensive tackle is low on the list of needs.
ALSO. i love hearing [now] how important a rotation is at defensive tackle. if phil taylor will only play parttime due to the ‘rotation’… then why the hell did we use a first and third round pick on him??
thank you.
What is wrong with taking someone you like? It’s create to make fun of the moves in retrospect because YOU think these guys would have fallen but if these moves were not made who knows what our team would look like now?
if rounds three and on dont matter, then we should bundle those picks for an added second every year.
because their nothing to get worked up over and you can only get average regulars.
did you SEE our right tackle last year? were you ok with the 4th string waiver wire RB? liked that jayme mitchell did you? an ‘average regular’ is pretty important when youre 4-12.
more on this premise in a separate post above.
one of the more novel defenses of the hughes pick is that it’s ‘just a 3rd round pick.’
here’s a list of HOFers taken after 96 overall, just in case you all really think those late rounders don’t matter. (if i can, ill try to find a list of all-pros after 96.)
Johnny Unitas 102
Nick Buoniconti 102
Tom Fears 103
Dante Lavelli 103
Harry Carson 105
Don Maynard 109
Leroy Kelly 110
Steve Largent 117
George Blanda 119
Mike Webster 125
Jackie Smith 129
Roger Staubach
129
Arnie Weinmeister
166
Willie Davis
181
Rayfield Wright
182
David “Deacon” Jones
186
Shannon Sharpe
192
Bart Starr
200
Richard Dent
203
Ken Houston
214
Andy Robustelli
228
Raymond Berry
232
John Madden
244
Chris Hanburger
245
Roosevelt Brown
321
Frank Gatski
FA
Lou Groza
FA
Marion Motley
FA
Bill Willis
FA
Joe Perry
FA
Emlen Tunnell
FA
Jack Butler
FA
Dick “Night Train” Lane
FA
Willie Wood
FA
Willie Brown
FA
Emmitt Thomas
FA
Larry Little
FA
Jim Langer
FA
Warren Moon
FA
John Randle
FA
Isn’t it pretty undeniable that Taylor played too many snaps last year?
The good news is that the Browns kept picking and signed undrafted free agents too. Do you know what kinds of worthless guys were picked before Warren Moon came in as an UDFA? The whole point is that it is a crapshoot.
it was undeniable that shaun rogers took plays off and that taylor was going to address this.
the ‘DT rotation’ thing seems a new and convenient ‘found wisdom’ which seem duplicitous. it’s not like heckert brought taylor in the press conference after drafting and said, ‘we’re looking for him to play about 75% of the snaps. this is our expectation.’
of course, absolutely. the back end of the browns draft look pretty great, imo.
personal favorite UDFA is josh cooper and weeden should be happy with this too.
of course, absolutely. the back end of the browns draft look pretty great, imo.
personal favorite UDFA is josh cooper and weeden should be happy with this too.
of course, absolutely. the back end of the browns draft look pretty great, imo.
personal favorite UDFA is josh cooper and weeden should be happy with this too.
Not a great example of what is going on here since the draftniks said JR was #1 and an actual team GM (albeit the Raiders) picked him at #1.
Not a great example of what is going on here since the draftniks said JR was #1 and an actual team GM (albeit the Raiders) picked him at #1.
find a DT that plays more than 75% of defensive snaps… I don’t think you’re going to do it.Rubin played 80 more snaps than any DT in the NFL last year
sounds like a good position to fill via free agency.