Peter King: Richardson “Not a bad trade by Cleveland”
April 30, 2012Browns Backing in to Wide Receiver Improvement
April 30, 2012
As I get further and further along in my life as an NFL fan and critic, the letter grade thing the day after the draft starts to irk me a little bit. So, instead of just doing letter grades, I tried to put some questions together that are hopefully a little more nuanced. In the end, nobody knows if any of the players from this draft will actually work out. All you can grade on is the effort, strategy and implications immediately thereafter.
Note on comments: We’d like to do something different on this post. Please copy the questions (They’ll be in copy/paste format at the bottom) and give us your take in the same format that we used. Regular comments are allowed, but it’d be nice to have everyone weigh in using the same questions.
1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the best) what is your perception of the Browns’ 2012 draft?
Jacob: I’d give it maybe a 5. I was not particularly happy about the value we got throughout in picking Brandon Weeden early, choosing Mitchell Schwartz over other options and then the bonehead move of John Hughes. You can’t get a good draft rating when you botch up three of your first four picks.
Andrew: 6. I think the Browns did OK, they went after the positions they needed and they got a RB that most scouts and draft analysts were going crazy for. But drafting Weeden with so many quality OL and WRs on the board plus dropping down 20 spots to draft a guy who it’s questionable would have been drafted at all is definitely an eye raising move.
Kirk: 7
DP: I’d give it a 6.5. I feel like they tried to address some specific needs (RB, QB, RT, WR), but they seemed to reach a great many times to do so.
Scott: A solid 8. On a macro level, it filled needs, plain and simple. The only detractor was taking a reserve with the third-round selection when a starter likely could have been had. The micro level will be determined at some point in the future when we see how these players stack up.
Rick: Based on my limited assessment of the picks? I’d say a 7. Mostly because I really love the Richardson pick.
TD: 6 – I LOVE what they did with Richardson and can certainly get behind Weeden and Schwartz. But passing wide receivers until the fourth round while drafting a serious project D-Lineman in the third round is very Mangini/Butch Davis-esque.
Craig: 8. I don’t think everything went as well as it could have in the sense that other teams got in the Browns way. Still, seemed like the Browns seemingly upgraded with nearly every pick.
2. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well do you think the Browns addressed their needs in the draft?
Jacob: In terms of addressing needs, I think the Browns did a decent job and so I’d give them an 8. They certainly went after the players they thought could do well to fill the holes at QB, RB, OT, WR, CB and OLB. I’ll have to give the front office the benefit of the doubt for now, as I don’t like these players that much, but time will tell.
Andrew: 7. Maybe even 8. They got their RB, they added a strong armed QB, and they got their RT. On paper they went after their needs and added some players who should help improve the offense immediately. The only thing they might have waited too long to address, in my opinion, was WR.
Kirk: 8, addressing every major need but that of a number one wide receiver
DP: I’d say a 7 in theory. They may have addressed three of the four biggest offensive needs, though the hole at WR is still pretty glaring.
Scott: Another 8. A starting quality receiver would have been the only body which they did not select. Every other need was upgraded, including D-line depth.
Rick: Here’s the deal, they got players in the positions we need. The question obviously is how well those players will contribute. I’m going to say they filled holes fairly well. We had a lot of needs. I’ll go as high as 8, and only because the biggest hole was at WR and they waited a while to fill it.
TD: 6 – again, they didn’t address perhaps the biggest hole on the team, WR, until the 4th round, and then took essentially a speed/slot guy.
Craig: 7. I while I think the Browns upgraded at most spots, I think they missed on a chance to add a potential starting CB or WR.
3. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well do you think Heckert and the Browns did in the draft strategically? (10 being perfect execution making moves and using picks efficiently and decisively)
Jacob: About a 6. The Browns entered the draft with 13 picks and left with 11. The only moves were to nab Trent Richardson and then to move back in the third round with the Broncos. I think the team should have been a bit more creative in packaging mid-round picks to get other guys of value.
Andrew: 7. I have more of an issue with some of the “who they took” questions than I do with how they moved up and down the draft board. I’m fine with the trade up for Richardson and I’m fine with what they gave up.
Kirk: 4, I don’t believe Weeden should’ve been the pick at 22. I know there was talk of someone moving up and interfering with selecting him at 37, but I would’ve taken that chance. The trade back from 67 to 87 was baffling, especially when the pick was John Hughes at 87. I DO NOT think this was a wise pick. Yea, yea, get your guy if you’re worried someone was going to get him, but I highly doubt someone was going to take him before the 5th round, and if they did “WHO CARES?” He appears to be nothing special as far as backup DTs go.
DP: I’d give this a 3. I think they had specific players they wanted, and overspent in many cases to get those guys.
Scott: This is where I’ll give them a 7; knowing how things unfolded, I likely would have went wide receiver at 37 and taken the best O-Line available at 67. I like Mitchell Schwartz, but only time will tell if this was a gamble that pays off.
Rick: I’m going to give them a 5 here. I don’t mind the trade from 4 to 3. I’m going to assume someone was willing to make some kind of deal with Minnesota. The one I’m not loving was the move down in the third round and the subsequent pick of a player MOST everyone said would have been there rounds later.
TD: 5 – if the reports are true that they wanted Kendall Wright at #22 and didn’t get him, then I believe they panicked into taking Weeden at 22 when I believe they could have traded back up to the late 1st, early second to get him. Should I mention again how they neglected WRs?
Craig: 5. I get the sense that while Heckert and the Browns were satisfied with the haul of picks they felt like they were running uphill all weekend in terms of deal-making and luck. This isn’t to say the Browns failed in their strategy, but sometimes it just doesn’t work out for you. I think the Browns had good intentions like trading up in spots and just couldn’t make it happen.
4. Are you satisfied with what the Browns had to do to get Trent Richardson at #3?
Jacob: Yeah, this doesn’t bother me in the least. I think the offer to the Vikings was fair and adequate to ensure the Browns got the guy they wanted. I’d do this 10 times out of 10 — now Richardson just has to prove his worth.
Andrew: Had they not moved up, and Tampa Bay trades up to #3 and takes Richardson, I think the backlash would have even more intense. But beyond what fans think of it, it’s clear Trent Richardson is the player the Browns wanted, and they went out and got him. Those 4th, 5th, and 7th round picks would have been nice to try to use to get an extra 2nd round pick, but you can only trade with those who will trade for you. There’s no guarantee anyone would have let the Browns back into the 2nd round for an acceptable price. They had the offer from Minnesota on the table, and they took it and they made sure they got the one player they most coveted. Perfectly ok with that.
Kirk: Yes, I can definitely live with this. I would’ve been okay with Claiborne at 4, but I did want TRich. I would’ve been less pleased if we gave up a 3rd instead of our lower 4th rounder.
DP: Yes and no. On paper, it seems like a lot. But, while it’s easy to say, “The Vikings didn’t want him! We could have gotten him at 4!” who knows what other teams might have been willing to pay to move up. At the end of the day, it was a hearty price in terms of picks, but it gave the team all the security they needed to get their guy without moving any “impact” picks.
Scott: Very. As I documented last week, this was aggression which we hadn’t seen from this front office. They had a target and they got their guy; the picks it took mean nothing to me.
Rick: As I said earlier, I’m fine that they had to move up.
TD: VERY – I wanted him from the beginning as he is the only guy we could have taken at #3 that would make us instantly better in a position that is so important.
Craig: I’m alright with it, but I think it definitely set the Browns back in trying to make additional deals throughout the weekend. Still, the Browns are better off for guaranteeing they got Trent Richardson. There is nobody in the draft with more potential impact to the AFC North this weekend than that guy at that pick.
5. Assuming he’s 100% healthy, how many games do you think Brandon Weeden will start in his rookie year?
Jacob: I’d estimate 10. I honestly think Colt McCoy will be the initial starter out of training camp, but it should only be about a month or so until Weeden comes charging in to take the job. Or at least he better, considering first-round draft QBs — especially 28-year-old ones — don’t sit on the bench as much as they used to.
Andrew: 16. You don’t draft a 28 year old QB in the first round to have him not be your Week 1 starter. If he can’t beat Colt McCoy out for the starting job in training camp, then that pick was a disaster.
Kirk: 16, the clock is ticking.
DP: If he’s healthy, I’ll say 16. He’s clearly H&H’s guy, considering where they drafted him and the immediate “will Colt get traded?” rumors.
Scott: If he stays 100 percent healthy, all 16. I see no reason why the team would go a different direction at this point — Holmgren’s wagon is firmly hitched to the ginger.
Rick: Assuming he STAYS healthy, I would think he’s the starting QB all season.
TD: 13 – I’d say 16, but these QBs always get hurt.
Craig: 0. I am not the biggest Colt McCoy advocate, but I think we’re all discounting how difficult it is to grasp a new offense. If there is open competition I think Colt McCoy’s experiences last year will let him win the job. We might never know depending on what they do with McCoy.
6. What is your favorite draft pick other than Trent Richardson?
Jacob: I liked the Travis Benjamin selection a lot in the fourth round. His speed is undoubted, and he should be an excellent addition to the special teams unit. I worry about Pat Shurmur finding a creative way to include him in the offense, but I think he’s a guy that should be able to contribute offensively every game.
Andrew: Mitchell Schwartz. I don’t like where the Browns picked him in the draft, thought it was slightly high for him, but I think he has an excellent chance to solidify the RT position, something this franchise has sorely needed for a very long time.
Kirk: A tie between Mitchell Schwartz (thought he may have been one round too early) and James-Michael Johnson.
DP: I don’t have one, honestly. But, if pressed, I’d say Ryan Miller. Huge specimen of a human that could be a decent late-round value if he can provide some depth/versatility as he develops.
Scott: A tie between James-Michael Johnson and Brad Smelley. Seriously.
Rick: Schwartz. Why? Because he isn’t St. Clair. (Please don’t let him be St. Clair.)
TD: Acho – the kid from Texas. Very underrated selection and he will be a player on Special Teams right away.
Craig: Probably Schwartz, but I’ll also add Travis Benjamin. I’ve pointed out multiple times that this is Josh Cribbs’ last year under contract. It might be time to pass the torch in the return game and I also think Benjamin could find himself in some four receiver sets this season if we’re all lucky.
7. What is your least favorite draft pick?
Jacob: Will anyone say anything but John Hughes? This was awful in all regards, and he could have been available in the seventh round or even as an undrafted free agent. There were so many other options available that this just doesn’t make any sense to me at all.
Andrew: John Hughes. I just don’t get it.
Kirk: Hughes, hands down.
DP: John Hughes. Not really a position of need at this time, and a clear reach where he was drafted. A total head-scratcher to me.
Scott: John Hughes is the obvious choice here. I’ll also throw a question mark at Trevin Wade.
Rick: Hmmm. Hughes is the easy call. And probably the right one. I’m also kind of scratching my head on the Winn pick. Not that I’m opposed to taking defensive tackles, but Winn is being called a tween-er, meaning not really a straight DE or DT. In my mind that sounds like not very productive in either spot.
TD: John Hughes – you know its a reach when Hughes himself didn’t have any family or friends over Friday because he didn’t think there was anyway he’d be picked until Saturday.
Craig: I’ll say John Hughes, but not because of him. I’m still a bit upset that the Browns traded down there. Seemed at odds with the needs of the team to trade down in the third round this year.
8. If you could have solved one more need that the Browns missed, which one would it be?
Jacob: A higher-round cornerback? I think the Browns effectively filled holes, but I didn’t like their value or the guys they got to fill those holes. Trevin Wade had a nice senior year at Arizona, but I don’t think he can be relied upon to compete immediately for a starting job, which is why the Browns seemed to be so interested in Mo Claiborne.
Andrew: WR, WR, WR, WR, WR. There’s some hope looking through optimistic lenses that Brandon Weeden will make the Browns’ receivers better. That’s possible, but still, WR was such an enormous, glaring hole for this team and to only address it with 1 draft pick, a small speedster with questionable hands, was a huge mis-step in my opinion.
Kirk: Big-play wide receiver. I would’ve liked Stephen Hill in the second round or Mohammed Sanu a little later.
DP: WR is still a hole. Benjamin might bring some speed to the position, but he’s probably not a guy you expect to have much impact. That cupboard is still pretty bare.
Scott: I would’ve jumped ahead of the Giants to draft Reuben Randle at the end of the second round. That one stung.
Rick: WR. Don’t think we addressed it adequately. Second would be DB.
TD: A top tier WR
Craig: I’ll say CB. If the Browns had added a starter, they might have finally been able to push Sheldon Brown to safety and upgraded the secondary almost immeasurably.
9. Which draft pick do you think is the most likely 5th round and on to ever contribute to the Browns?
Jacob: Billy Winn was a great pick-up for the Brownies. He was projected to be a 4th rounder entering the draft and previously was slotted to be a 2nd rounder before his stock slid over the past few weeks. He never quite put up that impressive of consistent numbers at Boise State, but he should be able to slide into the D-line at multiple positions and pick up a few big plays every game.
Andrew: Trevin Wade. I loved this pick and I this guy could be a legit starting CB in the NFL. We know the guy has the natural talent. Just look at his sophomore season and read some of the things written about him at that point in time. His consistency and effort dropped off big time, and the question is why. If the Browns figure that out and coach him back up to the guy he once was, they have a really good CB on their hands.
Kirk: Emmanuel Acho and Billy Winn both.
DP: Miller, see above.
Scott: Billy Winn
Rick: I like what I’m reading about Ryan Miller the OL. I believe the ‘weaknesses’ in his game are completely fixable. He has the physical tools, just needs to put everything together. I think he could be a good depth player.
TD: Acho
Craig: Billy Winn. There’s just something about this pick that seems weird, but in the Browns favor.
10. Is there a veteran player from the team that you would now cut because of the draft results?
Jacob: Seneca Wallace, one O-lineman and one wide receiver have to be on their way out. I’m not certain which ones just yet as I never know who will step up year in and year out from those latter two positions. But Mitchell Schwartz and Travis Benjamin are two guys that are going to have to get regular playing time this season and should replace some pesky veterans.
Andrew: Nope.
Kirk: Let’s go with Oniel Cousins and Seneca Wallace for now, though there’ll be more,
DP: Tony Pashos who is already gone, but glad they replaced him.
Scott: He’s not a veteran, but I’m very tempted to give Owen Marecic’s gig to Brad Smelley. The other option is cutting bait with Scott Fujita — fun while it lasted, but he’s easily the weak link of the linebackers.
Rick: J.B Shugarts. Oh, you said veteran. I wish I could say MoMass, but I don’t think they addressed the position enough. Seneca Wallace.
TD: Seneca Wallace – get him out of here. He openely campaigned for Colt McCoy’s job last year and refused to mentor him. You want that around Weeden?
Craig: Seneca Wallace. I don’t see a reason to pay him. Colt McCoy should stay and be backup if that’s his role. He will be good at it.
11. Given what we’ve seen from Tom Heckert, how comfortable do you feel going forward with him as general manager?
Jacob: Ask me this in another six months. It’s still way too early, and I’m feeling rather pessimistic after those head-scratching first two days of the draft. The Browns need to show drastic improvement this season — especially on offense after these big investments — and anything less than 7 wins will be a disappointment in the eyes of the fans.
Andrew: I feel ok. A couple things are clear about Heckert. He is always going to drive us nuts on draft night. He doesn’t care one bit about anyone else’s projections and whether he is taking someone too high in a draft. Instead, he finds the players he loves, and he makes sure the Browns go get them. It’s irritating on draft night when it appears the Browns are reaching, but if we’re honest, his drafts have turned out pretty well and made a lot of our anger look foolish. Here’s to hoping he does the same with this year’s draft class.
Kirk: His destiny is now forever tied to the choice to draft Brandon Weeden. The Browns could recover from him busting, but it’ll set them back another year or two on a team that is already at least two seasons away from playoff contention. Overall, I love his ability to add more playmakers on D than we’ve ever had, but some of his moves are head-scratching at best (almost completely ignoring the wide receiver position for two straight years, for instance).
DP: About 50/50. He has seemed to bring in some talent at the tops of his drafts (Haden, Ward, Taylor, Sheard, et al) but he makes several picks that leave me scratching my head at times. In terms of free agents, I give him an “incomplete” because, well, we really haven’t seen him go out and work the FA market with real intent.
Scott: Drafting, I couldn’t be more comfortable. The allergies to free agency will continue to bug me.
Rick: I am more comfortable with him drafting players than any GM we’ve had since the team returned.
TD: Still very strong. The guy has a proven track record of drafting well is building the team the right way, through the draft.
Craig: Still very good. I don’t think Heckert had all the cards fall his way this weekend, but he still worked creatively and smartly in bolstering the lines. He seemed to have a lock-tight plan, but didn’t get flustered when he had to improvise. I sensed he was a bit frustrated, but I still think the Browns did well overall. That’s hopefully the sign of a good GM.
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Here is the poll. Copy (control-c) and paste them (control-v) into the comment box below and answer them. You can number them 1-11 if you absolutely have to, but it is much easier for everyone to read if you copy and paste the questions themselves so nobody has to scroll around to remember.
1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the best) what is your perception of the Browns’ 2012 draft?
2. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well do you think the Browns addressed their needs in the draft?
3. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well do you think Heckert and the Browns did in the draft strategically? (10 being perfect execution making moves and using picks efficiently and decisively)
4. Are you satisfied with what the Browns had to do to get Trent Richardson at #3?
5. Assuming he’s 100% healthy, how many games do you think Brandon Weeden will start in his rookie year?
6. What is your favorite draft pick other than Trent Richardson?
7. What is your least favorite draft pick?
8. If you could have solved one more need that the Browns missed, which one would it be?
9. Which draft pick do you think is the most likely 5th round and on to ever contribute to the Browns?
10. Is there a veteran player from the team that you would now cut because of the draft results?
11. Given what we’ve seen from Tom Heckert, how comfortable do you feel going forward with him as general manager?
91 Comments
last year was foregoing the opportunity to draft justin houston or demarco murray in the 3rd by reaching for phil taylor.
easy to be confused.
the only reason I bring up his age is because I think a 27 year old has a decided advantage playing against 20 year old college students who have not fully matured into men.
In the NFL, that advantage no longer exists. And that scares me.
The whole “we only get 6 or 8 years” thing lots of people are pushing is far less important to me. Two good years by a QB in a row would be a record for the Browns, 2.0
yeah, thanks but I kind of detest the pro athletes I’ve been around. But if you’re offering I’ll take the OC job, provided I can stay in the booth, mute what they try to tell me from the sideline and head directly to my car after the game. Or maybe if I could do it from my family room, like drone missiles.
Oh, it’s an offer alright. Please “sign” the “contract” that I just “sent.” We’ll be holding a “press conference” in 30 “minutes.”
OK, what about Mitchell Schwartz? He should shore up that right side. Without that trade he is not drafted if we are drafting weeden there right?
I’ll be “there”; nay, I already am.
i imagine he’s like one of those teenage girls who talks so quickly and incessantly that he doesn’t have time to breathe, hence the color change in his face.
I was under the impression that teenage girls no longer speak. I thought all communication was now heads-down, thumbs on the phone keyboard. Still incessant, though.
I agree with the “” part above for sure.
specifically:
OL – we actually have 5 guys I am comfortable starting the year and some potential decent backups behind them. Have to actually see Schwartz in the NFL like all rookies, but it’s a promising group.
RB – Richardson just makes this group work. He’s all purpose guy which means that having a “potential” guy in Hardesty, a 3rd down back in BJAX and then possibly a little speed guy in Ogbannya is actually a workable group with specific roles.
WR – ok, moving along (but we didn’t have depth here 3 years ago either). still, feel better about Little, MoMass, Benjamin, Norwood, Cribbs than the group before them (yes, 2 holdovers).
TE – Watson/Moore/Cameron/Smelley
DL – we now have DE depth and DT depth. might not like how we got there but we have the depth now.
LB – we have 4 LBers I am comfortable moving forward with on the team (Gocong, DQ, JMJ, Acho). This is 2 more than at any point since the Browns have been back for me. Maybe JMJ and Acho flame out, but right now the group looks okay.
CB – ok, we could use some more depth here.
S – ditto. really interested to see what Hagg really has in him. he could be a sneaky play to start.
1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the best) what is your perception of the Browns’ 2012 draft?
EIGHT. adding two top end talents at two most important positions trumps everything else.
2. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well do you think the Browns addressed their needs in the draft?
FOUR. RT-RB-QB addressed. OLB not addressed (two ILBs right?).. maybe they’re getting good reports on marcus benard; CB not addressed at top… apparently not viewed as a need by berea after guaranteeing $6m to patterson; S not addressed; WR not addressed at top of draft.
3. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well do you think Heckert and the Browns did in the draft strategically? (10 being perfect execution making moves and using picks efficiently and decisively)
THREE. every top pick except seemed a reach. however, richardson and weeden are the most important players in the draft and they succeeded in getting them.
4. Are you satisfied with what the Browns had to do to get Trent Richardson at #3?
YES. fwiw, i was not satisfied with the initial report that they gave up a third.
5. Assuming he’s 100% healthy, how many games do you think Brandon Weeden will start in his rookie year?
SIXTEEN.
6. What is your favorite draft pick other than Trent Richardson?
WEEDEN. none of the later picks brought reflexive ‘nice pick.’ weeden didn’t either; hated it when he was announced. but on the whole, glad to have him.
7. What is your least favorite draft pick?*
BENJAMIN.* devon wylie from fresno ran was 4.39 and is a football player. benjamin ran a 4.36 and seems more a track star.
*other than HUGHES.
8. If you could have solved one more need that the Browns missed, which one would it be?
OLB. we haven’t had a playmaking linebacker in years, decades. we’re slow on the edge. and fujita is both old and likely headed for suspension.
9. Which draft pick do you think is the most likely 5th round and on to ever contribute to the Browns?
ACHO.
10. Is there a veteran player from the team that you would now cut because of the draft results?
WALLACE.
11. Given what we’ve seen from Tom Heckert, how comfortable do you feel going forward with him as general manager?
ENH. NOT GREAT. he’s mediocre, imo. won’t hit homeruns, but protects the plate and makes some contact. he’d bat 7th for the indians.
what is there to suggest we were looking at Randle?
not sure. i’ll be able to tell you in 10 years. ask me then.
In 10 years, I’ll know for myself (but I’m going to be the bad dad that keeps my daughter away from phones, computers, and all sorts of other nasty things. Like boys).
I don’t necessarily disagree with the Benicia of getting more physical and improving the run game, thats never good.
But when building a team you can’t focus in ‘matching up’ with two specific teams. Just build your team, get great players, and you will match up fine with anyone. They could barely ever run the ball and beat the Ravens and Steelers with a great passing game (see Pats this year). Good teams don’t chase other good teams, they build their team.
Correct. That is the benefit of having extra picks. I am in no way upset with the bounty of picks we recieved, just the amount of value we left on the table. I think Heckert was a little frustrated too. After all, his Weeden quote was “so we just took him there,” indicating that some other first option must have fell through.
between JMJ and Acho, I am cautiously optimistic that we did solve the open OLB slot.
That 10-6 season was a lot more fun for me than any of the last four seasons without Savage, I can’t help but point out. I don’t think you’re right in that Savage, too, kept trying to outthink the experts — witness the Ngata trade — but I can’t help but think that, if he hadn’t been fired, the Browns would have done better than 14 total wins in the three seasons since he left.
Jets wanted Bruce Irvin at #16, Saints wanted Hughes at pick #89… maybe it’s possible that NFL GM’s know more than Mel Kiper and Todd McShay’s stupid rankings?? hmmm
I guess I can’t really dispute either of the posts in response to mine, but I still keep coming back to one thing: when Holmgren was hired, if somebody had asked me what I thought would have been a sign of success for his first two years, I would not have said, “oh, 5-11 and 4-12, but there will be signs of improvement.”. I would have expected to Browns to have been at least 7-9 in their second season under H&H, with a winning season likely in 2012, as a sign of success.
like the smelley observation. i chose acho as the sleeper, but there’s a lot to like with smelley. except the name of course.
I look at the trade like this – if the Browns had gone into the draft with the #3 draft pick and the intent to take Richardson, and the team at #4 had called and offered a 4th, 5th and 7th to move up and get him, would I have taken it? No. Obviously, we can’t know if Tampa or somebody else would have made a move, but the compensation is so slight I wouldn’t give up TRich to get it, so why shoud I be upset about giving it up to secure him?
As for McCoy, well, I don’t particularly like QB controversies and would rather Weeden was the starter from day one, but if your worst-case scenario is that McCoy shows just enough that he’ll have some value in a year as trade bait, well, I’ll take it.
that bengals one-two punch of marvin jones and george iloka back to back in the fourth FIFTH round blew my mind. especially coming after our -imo- poor decision on ryan miller.
bode:::: marvin jones and george iloka back to back in the 5th round. rufkm?
WINNER, WINNER
Your refusal to use a comma baffles me more than your utter lack of football knowledge. If you hate the Browns and don’t care about them as much as you say you do, then why do you follow them and comment on EVERYTHING they do?
That 10-6 season was because the Browns played one of the easiest schedules in the NFL that season and put short-term band-aids on long terms problems which is why the Browns have to go through such a long-term rebuild right now. Sucks that Heckert has to deal with all of this criticism because of previous regimes ineptitude.
Last season was basically the 1st year of the new regime because they kept Mangini on for a season. No doubt they will be much improved this season. They just can’t possibly get worse. Too many impact players have been added to the roster.
Sanu is awful and can’t separate from a defensive back. They needed a deep threat, not just any old WR. They wanted and needed speed to take the top off the defense.
Received well? Haven’t you learned that Heckert and Holmgren don’t give a crap what anyone thinks? They’re usually right.
No, last year was their second year. That they made a mistake in keeping Mangini for a year doesn’t mean that that year suddenly ceased to exist. If I didn’t have to count the years I made mistakes in, I’d still be an infant. And, since this is year 3 now, couldn’t we at least hope for “better” out of the team, as opposed to “can’t… get worse”? Taking over a bad team and not making it worse doesn’t strike me as all that impressive a job.
Damn iPhone auto-correct, what the hell is Benicia and why did my phone think that’s what I wanted to say?
1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the best) what is your perception of the Browns’ 2012 draft? 3. Thought Browns reached on first 4 picks, may have found a few starters (Winn, Miller) in late rounds which saved overall draft.
2. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well do you think the Browns addressed their needs in the draft? 4. Decent job addressing o-line, missed out completely on WR, added some LB depth late. If Winn can play opposite Sheard then bump this to a 6.
3. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well do you think Heckert and the Browns did in the draft strategically? (10 being perfect execution making moves and using picks efficiently and decisively) 1. They get a 1 for not taking Hughes at 67, waiting until 87. Moving to 3 seemd desperate. As did taking Weeden at 22 over 37. Slightly reached at 37 and huge reaches for Hughes and Benjamin.
4. Are you satisfied with what the Browns had to do to get Trent Richardson at #3? Not at all. Too many holes to give up picks to move one spot. Stay put and see what happens, even if TB trades up we get a blue chip prospect at 4 in Claiborne, Kuechly, Blackmon or whoever.
5. Assuming he’s 100% healthy, how many games do you think Brandon Weeden will start in his rookie year? Asuming health, 16. Facing schedule we do, 11 before injury.
6. What is your favorite draft pick other than Trent Richardson? Well Trent isn’t my favorite. I guess Winn because we may have drafted a rotational DE in 6th round.
7. What is your least favorite draft pick? Everyone says Hughes, I’ll say Benjamin. Mostly because I like the Arkansas trio that went after him, Joe Adams, Greg Childs and Jarius Wright.
8. If you could have solved one more need that the Browns missed, which one would it be? Clearly WR was nearly ignored.
9. Which draft pick do you think is the most likely 5th round and on to ever contribute to the Browns? Miller and Winn have a chance, I think Winn starts earlier.
10. Is there a veteran player from the team that you would now cut because of the draft results? Colt McCoy. I like Colt and think hes a good back up but I just don’t see it working. Maybe Colt is professional, but his dad will probably make unwelcomed headlines if Weeden struggles. Sadly itd be better to move on. Also may cut Wallace and add a backup who gets cut, Stanton is available now.
11. Given what we’ve seen from Tom Heckert, how comfortable do you feel going forward with him as general manager? Still not sure if Heckert or Holmgren makes final call? We’re allergic to free agency which is bad. Based on the drafts I’m nt very confident at all, but I think it may be Holmgren more than Heckert.
1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the best) what is your perception of the Browns’ 2012 draft? 5. And that’s only because I like Richardson as a player, and Schwartz seems promising.
2. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well do you think the Browns addressed their needs in the draft? 6. Some needs were met to be sure.
3. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well do you think Heckert and the Browns did in the draft strategically? (10 being perfect execution making moves and using picks efficiently and decisively) 4–and that may be a bit generous on my part. Definitely below average.
4. Are you satisfied with what the Browns had to do to get Trent Richardson at #3? No. I like Richardson as a player–a lot, actually. But giving up all those picks for a RB that high in the draft? Not a fan. He’d better stay healthy. Even if the Bucs were going to move up on us, we should have let them. Then grab Claiborne or Kalil, and worry about a RB later.
5. Assuming he’s 100% healthy, how many games do you think Brandon Weeden will start in his rookie year? If the answer here is less than 16, then it’s a wasted pick.
6. What is your favorite draft pick other than Trent Richardson? After learning more about him, Schwartz might end up being our smartest move in this draft. Billy Winn seems like a nice rotation guy on the D-line.
7. What is your least favorite draft pick? Brandon Weeden is far and away my single least favorite pick since this team returned in ’99. At least when we reached for Robiskie it was an Ohio State kid…
8. If you could have solved one more need that the Browns missed, which one would it be? Wide receiver, of course. Absolutely loved Sanu. Not looking forward to facing hi across from AJ Green twice a year.
9. Which draft pick do you think is the most likely 5th round and on to ever contribute to the Browns? Winn seems most likely to me, given that we need depth on the D-line in a bad way. Could see Ryan Miller as a rotation guy, given how beat up our O-line seems to get each year.
10. Is there a veteran player from the team that you would now cut because of the draft results? Pretty sure Carlton Mitchell is just taking up a roster spot at this point. But, given that our WR corps is so weak, I don’t suppose there’s any harm in that.
11. Given what we’ve seen from Tom Heckert, how comfortable do you feel going forward with him as general manager? Not as confident as I was after last year’s draft, but more confident than I’ve been with any GM since the team’s return. Seems like he tries too hard to be smarter than everyone else in the league on some of his moves (Hughes), but I think he’s still a good evaluator of talent.
1. On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the best) what is your perception of the Browns’ 2012 draft?
7 – I was pretty annoyed with it as it was happening because I didn’t think we were getting good value, but that’s really a personal opinion (or fine, an opinion of most draft-ologists, but not necessarily NFL teams). I’ve come around to thinking that we did a pretty good job of getting players that filled needs outside of WR and CB (or S if Brown stays at CB), and now we just need to hope that they were valued properly.
2. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well do you think the Browns addressed their needs in the draft?
8 – I want the coaching staff to prove this season that it was the QB and OL that made the WRs ineffective and show an improvement in the drops. If they can do that, then I can drop my argument that we desperately needed a WR with that 2nd pick.
3. On a scale of 1 to 10 how well do you think Heckert and the Browns did in the draft strategically? (10 being perfect execution making moves and using picks efficiently and decisively)
5 – In no way did we get good value with our picks. I don’t care what Heckert and Holmgren say… there is no way Weeden wouldn’t have been there with pick #37 and no way we needed to grab Hughes at #87.
4. Are you satisfied with what the Browns had to do to get Trent Richardson at #3?
10 – Absolutely fine with it and think it was probably needed.
5. Assuming he’s 100% healthy, how many games do you think Brandon Weeden will start in his rookie year?
16 – As has been said, there’s no way he’s going to sit with his age and draft position.
6. What is your favorite draft pick other than Trent Richardson?
I think it’s Miller in the 5th round. This guy just sounds like a beast… I don’t worry about things like his height or his arm length… not that big of a deal at guard.
7. What is your least favorite draft pick?
For value, it’s Hughes like everyone else. For the player in a vacuum, it’s Benjamin. I think we already have a bunch of small speedy receivers who drop passes… can we get someone with fantastic hands who catches everything?
8. If you could have solved one more need that the Browns missed, which one would it be?
Wide Receiver. I just don’t think that Greg Little is ever going to be a #1 caliber WR, and I have the same doubts about MoMass. Granted, I don’t think Kendall Wright is a #1 either and that’s supposedly who the Browns wanted to take, so maybe I just need to be content.
9. Which draft pick do you think is the most likely 5th round and on to ever contribute to the Browns?
Again, I think it’s Miller. If you are as big as him and have a good work ethic, I think you’re primed to succeed in the NFL at his position.
10. Is there a veteran player from the team that you would now cut because of the draft results?
He’s not a veteran, but if Brad Smelley is a better fullback than Owen Maricic, then cut Maricic. I couldn’t believe how poorly he played last year. Or better yet, move Maricic to linebacker because I thought that was his better position in college.
11. Given what we’ve seen from Tom Heckert, how comfortable do you feel going forward with him as general manager?
Pretty good, but that’s because I’m used to total failure in the draft AND in free agency. Heckert could really stand to do a little more in free agency (and by “more”, I mean “something”) but I think he’s drafted well for the Browns.
you’ll get there a couple years before me. let me know the hints
the main reason I have hope is that this is the first time since we have been back that we have a president, FO, and coaching staff all on the same page that want the same type of players and are working together by all accounts.
so, while they get a major ding for not just starting fresh when they get here, there was a decision to move to the WCO and 4-3 defense. there is a transition there and I do think that we have better overall depth at this point. it should lead to us being a better team, but we won’t know until September.
and Sanu right before those picks. Bengals and Texans had my 2 favorite drafts. I really hope I screwed up during the draft process this year (nothing against the Texans)
yeah, one thing I noticed watching all those Richardson highlight reels was that almost always Smelley was 20-30 yards downfield sealing blocks for him.
“Randly’s” billions are sort of necessary
here’s where I am with Weeden at #22:
if Schwartz was our top rated RT, then I am fine with the pick. it’d be nice to trade down a few slots from #22, but you can’t always do that. Reiff was the only other RT prospect taken between the picks, so the question comes down to how we had him on our board (as a RT). I wish we could know the real answers for stuff like that.
From the comments I’ve read about Schwartz and the praise they gave him after he worked out for the Browns, I do think he was our first choice at right tackle even over Reiff (he had also played RT in college unlike Reiff). I also believe that there were other teams who felt the same way… since the draft ended, I’ve read several “experts” who noted that Schwartz really was the best right tackle candidate in the draft (Jamison Hensley for one, although I usually can’t stand his stuff) and we know that Kiper/McShay/Mayock/andthelike rate all tackles with more of a focus on pass-blocking, ala left tackles. I agree, I’ve come around on the pick and I’ve fine with it. I also tend to get more optimistic about my teams when given time to forget mistakes, so there’s that.
By the end of September, the Browns will have played the Eagles, Bengals, Ravens and Bills. I’m not sure what we’ll know from those four games. Would 2-2 indicate success and 1-3 indicate failure, and if so what would 0-4 signify?
The reason why I don’t have hope — and you and I have discussed this elsewhere on WFNY and I’ve appreciated your responses in the past, but I still think the evidence is on my side — the reason why I don’t have hope is that H&H have been here for two complete seasons and have yet to develop any kind of improvement to the team that shows up in the won/loss schedule, and neither I nor people who have been accurate in the past see the Browns showing a measurable increase in wins in 2012. I think the team will be 5-11 or 6-10. If I’m wrong, great. If not, what have they accomplished?
The NFL doesn’t have abrupt turnarounds. Teams don’t string together losing season after losing season then suddenly burst into title contention when all of this “talent” that had been developed in previous seasons that hadn’t impacted the won/loss record suddenly blossoms. What happens, instead, is this: new management takes over, and the team improves by one or two games in the first year, then two or three in the second, then another one or two or three in the third. If H&H aren’t following that pattern, it may be because they aren’t making the team any better.
Back when H&H first arrived — what was that, January 2010? — I know what I expected. I expected that pattern. Something like 6-10 in 2010, 8-8 in 2011, a run at a wild card spot in 2012. And if someone had asked me then what I would think about the Browns going 5-11, 4-12, whatever mgbode’s prediction is for 2012 in their next three seasons, well, I would have thought then that such a poor performance on the field over three seasons would be indicative o poor management. My opinion hasn’t changed.
I guess I go against all the takers on the Trent Richardson deal. I believe if Tampa was going to make a trade, Minn. would have taken it since they would of gotten more than what the Browns gave up. I believe we should of stood pat at number 4 and taken Blackmon if Trent wasn’t there, then get Doug Martin, then take Weeden, Massie, Then we take CB, DT, IILB best available with picks we didn’t give up. I think this would of been better improvement for this team. Cut Wallace, let Colt and Weeden battle it out. But Browns will screw that up also. They simply loose their good players, they have a long proven history of that. Hell they will probably lose Josh after this year. Also, who cares about free agency, just a pot full of wanta bees,lol. But I guess H&H are alot more astute than I am.