While We’re Waiting… Derek Lowe dealing, real life for McCoy and a little about Weeden

A guy at work today asked me how I thought the Weeden thing would affect McCoy and the locker room. I responded, “I don’t care. He should have played better.”

What happened to all the commentators on this site who said that if they hear any QB called by the Browns within the first three picks they were going to flip the script? 

Double agreed.  I was hoping McCoy would improve with a full offseason with Shurmur and the other coaches and his playbook, but that doesn’t mean that McCoy didn’t have a bad season… he missed a lot of open targets and didn’t show nearly the accuracy he was touted as having coming out of college.

Speaking for myself, I said that if the Browns selected a QB in the first round (I was fine with one at #37), I would “draw a pitchfork” from your arms room.  I drew my pole-axe last week. 

I think taking Weeden at #22 was dumb, particularly considering our need for a WR (which continues) and the probability of Weeden being there at #37.  Initially, I thought that taking Weeden was itself dumb,regardless of the place in the draft, but I have since come around.  I like him, and think he can be good – but I’m also very concerned with his age and the limited window that I think accompanies him.  I also cannot for the life of me figure out what the Browns did in Round 3.  My mind is still rather “boggled.” 

Having said all of that, I still trust that Heckert is a better talent evaluator than I ever will be.  (I was also on record earlier saying that drafting Richardson would be a mistake.  That was probably a mistake.  I hope.)

I still won’t ”flip the script” to call any of the FO “idiots,” but I am definitely more critical of them now than I was before.  I will reserve judgment until games are actually played, but condemnation is still going to be hard for me to find – particularly given our brutal schedule and the Steelers’ and Bengals’ maddening ability to turn in apparent ”super drafts” last week. 

Here’s where I am, in a nutshell:  I think the Browns should follow the Indians’ suit and rollout a lame motto for their 2012 season, taking particular consideration of the recent draft.  I recommend as their official motto for 2012:  “This Better Work!” (credit attributed to my clever wife).

Do you trust Heckert on Hughes at 87?  Is he in the nutshell with you?

You have to look at the entire draft, not just myopically at picks 1-3.  They made some very boneheaded moves that can mean only one thing:  they think Colt is the only issue with their offense.  They needed a RT so they got one, but it wasn’t like he was the best player at that position. 

They think Colt made the WRs look bad.  They think Weeden will make them look good. 

I actually don’t mind Weeden all that much either; his age is a non sequitor as far as I am concerned (God, how did 28 become old, yikes) but I think, and this is very important, if by week 8 he isn’t the second coming of someone really good, we will be in real trouble.

If Weeden can make it in this year we will have to find out by week 8.  It’s high-stakes game these guys are playing, but I think they see the writing on the wall for their jobs and they know that the fans will revolt if this doesn’t work after the 2012 season. 

Really, it’s a perfect storm; terrible schedule, poor team, unproven rookies, moronic head coach…it doesn’t look good. 

I am willing to suspend my disbelief long enough to give Weeden 8 weeks of football.  If I don’t see major improvement and at least 4-4 (or a REALLY good 3-5), then this group is finished.

Actually, the FO does think they got the best right tackle in the draft and so do a number of draft sites.  You have to remember that when Kiper and McShay (and most of the other guys who do rankings) make their lists, they are looking at how these tackles will play at left tackle, where the primary responsibility is pass-blocking.  Right tackle is about run-blocking more than pass-blocking, and several sources I’ve read think that Schwartz is the best run-blocker in the draft (not Kiper or McShay though… they thought Massie was the best right tackle, but apparently the FO and several other teams didn’t agree).

Haha ori it sounds like you are leaving yourself a convenient out since you can’t really quantify whether a QB was used properly or not.  In my opinion, a great QB will fit into any offense and make it his own, so I won’t leave RG3 that excuse.

Oh, I don’t know about that.  People were ready to run Alex Smith out of town in 2011…and now look? 

Get the right coach and the right system in place that PLAYS TO your star players’ talents and it can make all the difference in the world.  There is plenty of evidence to support that theory.

No worries, I am totally an insider.  And I agree, I think Miller could end up being a steal.  He played tackle in college, but is projected as a guard in the NFL.  The biggest knock on him was that he was too tall to be a guard, which is pretty silly… there have been a number of mammoth guards who were pro bowlers.  The other big knock is that his arms are too short, but this is less of a big deal at guard than at tackle.

The Hughes pick is definitely in the “This Better Work” nutshell; but, yes, I still trust Heckert until the evidence dictates otherwise.  Honestly, I felt much the same way about Sheard last year, but Heckert’s judgment was redeemed in my mind. 

You’ve summed up pretty well why I think Weeden’s age is an issue.  I don’t have a problem with him, per se (I would love to be 28 again!), so much as what I think the pick signifies.  As you said, I think it signifies desperation.  If it’s desperation to keep their jobs, then it’s entirely the wrong move.  The way I look at it, a team ”normally” (there is no real normal here) drafts a 28-year-old QB if they think that it’s the one piece that they are missing to get them over the hump.  We are so far away from the hump that it’s something we only see in National Geographic.  So, the move must be a desperate gamble to, as you said, maintain employment.  I hate that – and frankly, I hate that pressure from fans might be contributing to it.   

I think your assessment of what they think of Colt is pretty accurate – and here is where my general trust of their talent analysis has to rule the day.  I have generally thought that the WRs were making Colt look bad.  They obviously think it’s the other way around.  I hope beyond hope that they were right and I was wrong.  I still would have loved for a solid year of better talent (i.e., a 1st Round WR) surrounding Colt, but now I’m ”all-in” on Weeden as the starting QB, using “what we have” as WRs – but only because I have to be. 

My huge concern is that, based on the schedule, etc., the Browns are doomed to fail this year irrespective of whether Colt or Weeden is a bona fide NFL QB.  I suspect that we’ll have the same questions about Weeden next January as we currently have about Colt, making the pick last week relatively meaningless, except to the point where we will be handcuffed into not drafting Barkley, or Jones, or some other guy; thus reinforcing the tired cycle of sucking and wandering in a QB wilderness.

Wow.  That was a long comment.         

“  If I don’t see major improvement and at least 4-4 (or a REALLY good 3-5), then this group is finished.”

that’s just silly.  here you are making bets the team won’t win more than 5 games all year, but ready to bury them if they don’t win 4 of 8?   so, in your mind, they are buried already.

the record will depend on Weeden. how quickly he catches on, how much he improves our WR corps, how much Richardson can take the load off of him (with the backdrop of how good our young OL looks).  

the defense I expect to “regress” in stats but play just above league average which is where I think they truly are.   it’ll be up to offensive improvement from there.  we’ll see.

I did watch that Gruden session and I did come away feeling a little better about the Weeden pick.  He is smart, he does have a good arm, I liked his accuracy on both short and intermediate routes too… I think he can make all of the throws.  I do worry a little about how he’ll response to NFL defensive pressure.  He made some bad decisions last season when defenders got up in his face, but you could say Tom Brady struggles with the same thing.  My biggest beef is that I think it’s going to take some time to develop Weeden.  He was in a really simplistic offense where he as almost exclusively in the shotgun formation and as much as we like to bash Shurmur’s offense for being inept, it is not simplistic.  Weeden will have to be a quick study to be successful this season… he’ll have to learn footwork and reads and hot routes and how to read coverage better and blah blah blah.  It would be a lot to put on the guy to expect him to be successful in his first season, but I do hope to see growth from the beginning of the season to the end.

You just partially explained why Emmitt Smith is a Hall of Famer… he ran through some gaping holes opened up by a pulling Nate Newton, who was himself a massive guard.

You just made my Monday.  Especially the comparison with Smith/Richardson going around the water-cooler.

Let’s pray we are that lucky.  Let’s hope this other kind from Pensacola (did you know that they are from the same town?) can out-run Emmitt for many years to come in Brown and Orange.

My thoughts exactly; he comes off as intelligent, able to see his mistakes and wants to change them.  He has very good accuracy and can make practically every NFL throw.  Those little stick routes while reading the LB are very crucial to TE development and he can make the right decisions.

Weeden also has a good release and can throw a bullet.  The dude was a pitcher in the Yankees organization for years.

Shurmur needs to let Childress have as much of a free hand as humanly possible in the offense.  Yes, Weeden will need to learn 1-2 years of football experience in one summer, so that is a tall task for any rookie.  But, given that he is 28 his age actually helps him.  He is not some wide-eyed 22 year old.  He knows what it takes to win and he is comfortable with his abilities. 

If anyone can do it, it will be him.  Or, rather, it has to be him, now.

What if he was?  That would be awesome.

I’ve seen all the footage on Weeden, and I still don’t like the pick.  It’s not his arm, that’s fine.  It’s not his age, or at least not only his age.  It’s the fact that I simply do not like taking spread QB’s high in the draft.  Weeden hardly took any snaps under center in college.  He now has to learn the WCO, and it’s even more of an adjustment considering the system he played in.  So I’m basing my objections almost purely around the extremely volatile history of spread QB’s in the NFL.  There have been some good ones, and many bad ones.

There are many things to like about Weeden.  Good height, seems to have a good attitude, good arm (not great, but certainly good).  He could be good, and I can see that.  He also could take 2 years learning the system and be 31 by the time he’s finally starting to hit his stride.  And since it’s difficult to preach “patience” with a 28 year old QB, I doubt he gets much time to pick things up.

And to be honest, the only thing I really disliked about this draft was getting Weeden instead of a WR at 22.  I’m fine with Schawrz.  Semi-OK with Hughes, I’m trusting the FO that he’s better than advertised.  Rest of the picks, I’m OK with.    So I’m really hoping I’m wrong on Weeden, he makes a quick and seemless transtition to the NFL, and he pulls off a decent year. 

I’ll be open minded from here on out.

“As far as the Browns are concerned, I hope I lose every bet and they win every game.  So, let’s clear the air with that.”

I know.  If I didn’t feel that you felt this way, then I wouldn’t discuss things with you.

yeah, I do remember a few of those revolt comments.  I think people get a bit emotional on some subjects though before calming down.

Agreed.  That no laces stuff is a crucial but very little part of every QBs arsenal.  If he is going to be rushed in Cleveland (and hopefully our line will protect him better) then he will need to be able to get rid of the ball with accuracy.

Yes, it’s right next to the Big Boy. 

Side note:  Where the hell did all the Big Boy Restaurants go?

Kidding aside, I cannot believe it will take that long for this team to wake up and win, and I mean win big.  Isn’t there a law of large numbers or something that will prevent us from sucking that horribly for that long?

There might be such a law, but I’m pretty sure that Lake Erie acts as some sort of Bermuda Triangle, with Detroit, Cleveland, and Buffalo occupying the apices, wherein such such laws have no hold, at least in terms of football.  The best that one can hope for in this triangle is consecutive years of heartbreaking losses in championship games; though, at this point, I would take it. 

I disagree on the Anderson point; their arms are both powerful but Weeden makes some smarter choices and he can think quickly.  He is also older and yes more mature to handle the 16 game season.

Even though I am not a McCoy fan, I do not think Weeden (or giving up a zillion picks for RG3) was a good move.

I don’t like the spread thing either – but as time goes on, it is becoming harder and harder to find a non-spread QB out of college.

QBs have to come from somewhere. Right now, the ones with talent are all coming from spread programs