April 20, 2014

While We’re Waiting… More Tannehill suggestions, tanking at another level and no off season for Pinkston

While We’re Waiting serves as the early morning gathering of WFNY-esque information for your viewing pleasure. Have something you think we should see? Send it to our tips email at tips@waitingfornextyear.com.

Now this is just getting ridiculous- “With three teams possibly clamoring for Tannehill, the team that holds the third pick in the draft may finally have a trade market. Whether it’s a flip-flop with the Browns or a five-spot discount with the Dolphins or a nine-position plummet with the Seahawks, three different teams could make a run at the clear shot at Tannehill. At a bare minimum, the Vikings should squeeze the Browns into a one-spot swap, like the Vikings did with the Dolphins back in 2004, when Vikings G.M. Rick Spielman was coincidentally the G.M. in Miami. Then, the Vikings could still pick tackle Matt Kalil and finagle an extra pick (maybe a third-rounder) from the Browns.” [Florio/Pro Football Talk]

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Taking tanking to an art form- “Of all the games the Cavaliers play for the rest of the year there are specifically three that you must watch. Yesterday, Sir Conrad took a nice little look at the schedule as a whole and outlined some things about it. But, there are really three big games for me for obvious reasons if you read me much. These could be franchising changing games. And I hope they go our way so we jump up and win the lottery again. Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis in two consecutive years? Sounds like a conspiracy, huh? Well, that’s crap. The Cavaliers actually moved down with their pick last year from 2nd to 4th. The Clippers technically were the team who moved up. This year, it is going to be the Cavs. And it is going to be due to these three games I tell you about after the jump going well for the Wine and Gold.” [Fear the Sword]

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Hey, some good news about the Browns- “At this point of the offseason, Pinkston is not required to do a thing. The new CBA strictly limits what teams can ask of players. The Browns can’t ask players to be in the building until April 16 unless they are rehabbing from injury, and players coming off injury can only use the facility to rehab and recover. They are not allowed to work with strength coaches for training or workouts.

So a player like Pinkston — who was thrust into a starting role as a rookie late in training camp after Eric Steinbach had back surgery — either works on his own, or he doesn’t. Pinkston has chosen to join an Academy where a select group of players go through offensive-line specific workouts. Alex Boone credits Bentley for saving his career. Ole Miss tackle Bobbie Massey has transformed his body after six weeks with Bentley and might be a first-round pick, which is what Bears first-round pick Gabe Carimi did a year ago.” [McManamon/The OBR]

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Oof. Tough words about Kobe- “Mike Brown is the easy scapegoat. He’s replacing Phil Jackson, the greatest manager of athletic egos in the history of sports. Brown is a defensive-minded coach operating in Showtime Los Angeles. Whatever is wrong with the Lakers — and there was plenty wrong the final three quarters Thursday night inside the Staples Center against the Oklahoma City Thunder — must be traced to Brown, the coach with the audacity to bench Kobe Bryant and Andrew Bynum in back-to-back games. Mike Brown is clearly in over his head. Or maybe he’s not?” [Whitlock/FOX Sports]

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Finally, an advanced statistics primer for you basketball fans. [Amin/Hardwood Paroxysm]

  • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

    check out the comment sections of the florio piece.  not only do browns fans reject the tannehill talk (see the votes on comments) but dolphins and seahawks fans do too.

    looks to me that the only ones taken in and promulgating this ‘tannehill smokescreen’ are media members.  thank goodness bud shaw has stepped up with some common sense on this issue.

  • http://twitter.com/oribiasi oribiasi

    Here’s to hoping that the Dolphins trade the universe for the 3rd spot, take Tannehill, and we are “stuck” with Kalil.  Then here is our offensive line:

    LT:  Thomas
    LG:  Steinbach? (or a draft pick)
    C: Mack
    RG:  Pinkston
    RT:  Kalil

    My word, what a line.

  • mgbode

    yeah, that’s what I’m hoping for.  either we get Kalil or we get a bounty of picks from a LT-needy team and still get Reiff or Glenn (both of whom may be better at RT anyway)?   sign.me.up.

    I love the rookie-wage-scale that makes these high draft pick trades possible.

  • mgbode

    but, but what will they talk about?   Luck was the obvious #1 overall pick and even Irsay throwing the media a bone pretending to consider RGIII didn’t help.  the Rams traded the #2 pick too early in the process, so no more “who will get RGIII” talk.

    Kalil, Richardson, Blackmon and Claiborne just don’t move the needle like a QB.   Therefore, Tannehill must be the 2nd coming of Fran Tarkenton!   This is going to top the ’83 QB class!   We must keep using hyperbole on QBs or noone will click our links!!!!

  • mgbode

    “They are not allowed to work with strength coaches for training or workouts”

    I hate the NFLPA sometimes.  How does this help players like Pinkston who are not guaranteed a starting job and could benefit greatly from being able to specifically train for the areas that the team thinks they are weak?

    I understand a stipulation that it is completely voluntary to a poitn of the year, but “not allowed” is ridiculous.

  • http://twitter.com/oribiasi oribiasi

    Sure, that’s fine too.  If we can get a boatload of quality picks (I don’t need or want anything past the 4th round) for that spot for Kalil, I’d take it.

    But part of me wants to stand pat and take him at 4.

  • http://twitter.com/oribiasi oribiasi

    Yeah, that’s a good point.  We have all these insane rules about things and yet other things go on in the open for years with no punishment.  It’s talking out of both sides of the NFL’s mouth.

  • porckchopexpress

    Great to hear about Pinkston, wish he could have dragged Lauvao with him, but great nonetheless.  The one I’m really worried about is Phil Taylor.  I really think the offseason after the rookie year is most critical for big D-linemen. They got paid, its finally time to rest those big bodies, and all of them have food eating issues.  If he channels that into hard core workouts he’ll be a beast, if he waves at the gym on the way to get donuts he’ll be just another guy filling space.

  • http://twitter.com/oribiasi oribiasi

    Well they have a job, too, and need to make a “splash.”  You should read that book I listed earlier called “Illegal Procedure.”  It’s by an ex-NFL/NCAA football agent and its a tell-all.  Truly terrible stuff goes on, not least of which is the use of big name NFL “scouts” to drive the price up on their players.  It’s enlightening.

  • BenRM

    First, it’s a joke that Tannehill will go 3rd. 
    Second, it makes no sense for the Browns to trade up to get him.
    Third, if someone is dumb enough to trade with the Vikings for Tannehill, the Browns super win!

  • porckchopexpress

    Am I the only one who wouldn’t want Anthony Davis?  Or to put it another way, I’m okay if the Cavs don’t draft #1 overall and then feel obligated to draft him. If we’re going big I’d rather take a chance on Drummond, Gilchrist who I think is the surest thing in the draft.  I know he’s just 19/20 but he looks uncomfortable with his back to the basket.  I’m not sold on him being a consistent effective scorer in the NBA, but I guess thats why Grant cashes his checks and I cash mine.

  • mgbode

    I’ve read snippets of it.  Agree it’s a dirty business and why a good FO should only trust their own guys.

  • Mansoor Khan

    No Kalil, No Tannehil. Richardson or Blackmon. 

  • mgbode

    Delete that line about Drummond.   It kills your argument.

    I can see a solid argument be made about MKG vs. Davis.  Risk/Reward on development.  The need for wing scorers being critical in today’s NBA (and if they can play-D as well it’s a super bonus). 

    But, Drummond over Davis?  that is crazy talk.

  • http://twitter.com/oribiasi oribiasi

    It’s an amazing read and I’d highly recommend going through all of it.  His stuff on what is handed out is sickening and the depth/breadth of the corruption inherent in the NCAA system, perhaps even encouraged by it, is disgusting.

  • http://twitter.com/oribiasi oribiasi

    Richardson did not perform well against LSU, the toughest and most NFL-like defense he faced.

    Blackmon I am on board with.  He is a physical receiver and while he doesn’t have the size of Andre Johnson or Megatron, he is a solid player, a decent person it seems and would instantly start on almost all NFL teams.

    I still like Kalil better at 4, though.

  • Harv 21

    and these same experts will never retract their red flags about Joe Haden’s 40 time and Cam Newton’s fake smile, they’ll just spew more next year, all heat but vey little light. Lucky are the fans of teams who ignore all this gibberish.

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    Ditto here let Miami move up.  The only thing worse then the Browns drafting Tannehill #4 would be for them to move up to #3 to take him.  Not even the Browns would do this, right? 

    Kind of ironic but I dreamt they traded Joe Thomas last night.  LoL

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    Ditto here let Miami move up.  The only thing worse then the Browns drafting Tannehill #4 would be for them to move up to #3 to take him.  Not even the Browns would do this, right? 

    Kind of ironic but I dreamt they traded Joe Thomas last night.  LoL

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    I’m still for pursuing a FA big man over the summer and drafting either MKG or Beal.  The Cavaliers hitting the lotto again would be insane however.  Davis is a stud.  He reminds me alot of Marcus Camby with the additional abilities to handle the ball and a decent 10-15 foot jumper.

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    I’m still for pursuing a FA big man over the summer and drafting either MKG or Beal.  The Cavaliers hitting the lotto again would be insane however.  Davis is a stud.  He reminds me alot of Marcus Camby with the additional abilities to handle the ball and a decent 10-15 foot jumper.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/ WFNYRick

     It makes sense that Davis doesn’t look comfortable with his back to the basket yet, since he played essentially 2 guard in HS. What did he grow, like 5 inches in a year or something like that? A center that can handle the ball like a 2 guard? Sign me up. Yesterday.

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/ WFNYRick

     It makes sense that Davis doesn’t look comfortable with his back to the basket yet, since he played essentially 2 guard in HS. What did he grow, like 5 inches in a year or something like that? A center that can handle the ball like a 2 guard? Sign me up. Yesterday.

  • Mansoor Khan

    Richardson averaged 4.8 ypc for just under 100 yards against LSU in the Championship game and scored a TD. If that’s him not playing well, I’ll take him in a heart beat. Honestly, Blackmon is not the type of receiver I want, but he’s the best available receiver at this point. 

    The Browns need playmakers and speed above all else. That’s why Richardson has to be the pick. We can pick up a RT with the 37th pick. I’m sure Kalil will be a great player but we don’t need another LT as much as we need a player on offense that can score. 

  • pete

    He faced 9 men in the box against LSU, and even in the regular season matchup had a big game for total yardage. He had 170 total yards, and though his YPC on the ground wasn’t great, I’ll take 170 yards on a “bad” day from a RB.

  • porckchopexpress

    I agree, I just think right tackle is not a position you use a 4th overall slot on.  If he is great than you are losing him in 5 years or cutting Thomas and hoping Kalil can move over.  If the argument against taking Richardson is short lifespan than you have to make the same argument against Kalil or Claiborne because either they or Haden/Thomas are gone in 4-5 years. You simply can’t tie that much cap space in two tackles or CBs.  I agree that the idea of fielding the best OL in football is appealing but I think you can accomplish that using the 22 or 37 pick on an OT, while having the added benefit of getting a potential all-pro runner. 
    I’ve really become okay with Richardson if we don’t trade out of 4 only because of the above rationale and the fact that this year the drop in RB is greater from Richardson to whoever we can get at 22 compared to the reciever dropoff. 

  • porckchopexpress

    The counter to that argument would be what if he never develops that center game, because lets face the move from inside out is much easier than outside in.  If that happens you are stuck with a something from the Island of misfit toys.  Either a center who can’t post up, or a wing whose too big to take guys off the dribble and cant’ set himself up.
    I fully admit I have nothing other than a gut feeling on him, but he just doesn’t add up to number one pick for an NBA team to me.  He’s one of those guys I feel like should go 4-10 to a team that won’t throw all their expectations on him at once, allow him to develop a true big man’s game and find success over time.  These are luxuries a no. 1 doesn’t get.  Just to be clear though I wouldn’t even put a nickel bet down on him not becoming a success, he’s got almost everything needed to become a superstar.

  • porckchopexpress

    I know its out there, but in my defense I am completely insane :)    Here’s some of my basketball philosophy on drafting, I prefer players with clearly defined positions and skills sets that translate.  With Drummond, Grant just has to sit down with him, and if he (Grant) is convinced that Drummond has the work-ethic to improve his game, you’ve got true starting center, something only 3-4 other teams can say.
    With Davis even if the work ethic is there, what will he be, will he ever develop an inside game regardless of how hard he works? Will he evolve into Garnett, or more of a Channing Frye with shot blocking capabilities? 
    Its the biggest reason I liked Irving over D Williams last year, although its also the reason I liked Oden over Durant so take my whole crack pot philosophy with an ocean of salt.
    Even if Davis becomes Garnett, thats not the type of big man that wins championships, not without being paired with two other all time greats that is.  In spite of all the changes over the last decade, the best center on the court in the finals generally wins the title.  To me Drummond has the best chance to be that guy.

  • mgbode

    I understand the philosophy and it has merit.  It’s just that watching Drummond scares me to death.  He’s one of those big guys that just doesn’t seem to know what to do with himself.

  • mgbode

    Josh Smith has had a successful basketball career doing just that (though he frustrates Hawk fans for the same reason).  I think that’s the floor for Anthony Davis IMO.

  • mgbode

    Except that they are a RFA, not UFA.   So, in 5 years, if they are great, then you get back a 1st round pick for them.

    CB2 and RT are supposed to be easier to fill, so you use that pick to backfill the spot.   If you draft another great one, then you just repeat forever :)

  • porckchopexpress

    I know what you mean, I have reservations about everyone in the draft except for Gilchrist and Beal.  To be honest I was only spitballing that I hope we draft around 4-5 where taking Beal is a no brainer, I just feel like he is a perfect fit with the Cavs.  When player potential is nearly equal for several guys its time that we realize that a GM’s real job is guessing the level of importance a kid will place on basketball after becoming an overnight millionaire, and then project that guess out over the next 10 years.

  • TSM

    Very interesting comments.   As one of the few who actually saw Bill Russell play, I can say that a dominating defensive center can lead to a championship. (In no way am I annointing him another Russell)  by not only blocking shots, but discouraging drives and altering the way another teams tries to attack.   He is very athletic, with the only quesitons being his intelligence and possible work ethic.  For my money Russell is still the single greatest basketball player ever (yes even over MJ) since he altered the way the game was played and made every single teammate better.   The other 4 could gamble and not worry about getting beat.  They could also direct their player into the funnel.   I would grab Davis in a heartbeat if we get the first pick.

  • The_Matt_Of_Akron

    I hope Pinkston is taking notes on how all his potential teammates are performing at Bentley’s O-Line Academy.   Must be nice for Heckert to have an “inside man” in case we’re not getting Kalil.

  • Harv 21

    agree. And while you’re talking about the effects of money on kids, I flashed on the comments of John Lucas about pre-draft interviews: “I don’t ask a kid whether he smokes dope. I ask him how much he smokes.” Of course, maybe that had something to do with the kids Paxson brought in.

  • Steve

    I’m sorry, but we’re mentioning Bud Shaw as using common sense? Wha? Shaw said that Tannehill wasn’t a sure-fire first round pick basically because he hadn’t heard about him all year. Yeah, he hides behind “it was just because of his pro day!” nonsense, which isn’t true. The scouts who are analyzing his game film, and not just his pro day numbers are the ones who are constantly upgrading Tannehill.

    I don’t want Tannehill at 4 either, but the guy is rated as a first round pick. The reason he’s projected to go at 4 or 8 is because teams expect first round picks to be important upgrades, and, unsurprisingly, teams picking in the top 10 are generally the ones who need an important upgrade at QB.

  • Henry Brown

    A Reiff/Glenn OT/OG combo would be sweet.