June 19, 2013

Dolans need to fight the law even if the law wins

It is a topic that won’t go away. The Indians are currently in first place in the standings and last in attendance. What gives? Can Cleveland support three teams anymore? All these topics and then some have been top of mind ever since the NFL draft stopped flooding local talk radio phone banks and web servers alike. I haven’t really weighed in on it yet because frankly I find it wholly depressing all the way around. I am a bit embarrassed by it as a fan. I am indignant as well because I don’t think fans should be judged harshly on justifiable actions. Somewhere between these two competing emotions I find the whole topic of conversation completely exhausting, but I have the answer. The Dolans don’t need to spend more money. They need to at least look like they’re fighting the system that leaves them without the ability to spend just as much.

This time of year teams like Baltimore and Cleveland can occasionally thrive. Sometimes a team will maintain this level of quality all the way until the playoffs, but more often than not the quality provided by deeper pocketed ownership usually rises to the top over 162 games. That’s where being a baseball fan is so irrational. It is fun to laugh and point at big markets when they struggle, and then flip the switch to complaining about inequities when a high percentage of those big spenders qualify for the playoffs. It is predictable and I long for the year where I not only recognize that, but break the cycle. Yet, here I am.

The Dolans are only half to blame for the lackluster attendance at Indians games. When fans blame the Dolans for trading away C.C. Sabathia, Cliff Lee and even Victor Martinez, it isn’t because they have no concept for market dynamics. I was on board with the C.C. Sabathia deal when the Indians did it. I talked myself into it because I knew the market realities and I was in favor of anything other than seeing another Manny Ramirez caliber player teasing the fans on the way out of town to make top dollar.

Over time I turned on moves like that, though. It wasn’t because Michael Brantley and Matt LaPorta haven’t lived up to expectations. That’s the nature of making trades. Just because a trade doesn’t work out on the back end doesn’t mean it was a bad idea. If you were in favor of it at the start, you shouldn’t turn on it later because the risks didn’t pay off. What happened here is a confluence of things. The Indians traded away two Cy Young award winners and the heart and soul of the team, Victor Martinez, while simultaneously partaking in the only major American sport not to fight a labor battle against the players.

If Dan Gilbert owned the Cleveland Indians, he could have made all the same moves as the Dolans and had bigger results at the box office and in the stands. I don’t think Cleveland fans are delusional enough to think that just because Dan Gilbert can afford to do it that he should pay a Prince Fielder if he owned the team. The difference is that you could expect Dan Gilbert to fight the good fight to try and fix the sport. Gilbert was the one who wrote an email to the NBA over the Chris Paul trade. I’m projecting here a bit, but even if Dan Gilbert decided that deficit spending was unjustifiable in baseball, you’d have to think he would fight tooth and nail against the system.

This is actually probably why Dan Gilbert would never be allowed to purchase a Major League Baseball team, but that’s another topic of conversation. Notice that Mark Cuban hasn’t been successful in any of his various flirtations with baseball teams either? Mavericks need not apply. (Pun intended.)

That’s what makes the attendance conversation so difficult in Cleveland. It isn’t just that the Dolans traded away all the best players the team had over the last few years. A lot of us have been able to see through the pain and tears of seeing Victor Martinez go that it was better for the team considering the market and the league. Without the attempts to change the game, though, the Dolans miss out on a massive opportunity in the market they have available to them. It isn’t just about wins. It isn’t just about selling the game day experience. The Dolans are doing a decent job in those departments all things considered.

It’s the “all things considered” portion where they aren’t leading the information campaign against the league of which they are a member. People love Dan Gilbert’s Cavaliers even as they distrust David Stern and the large majority of NBA stars. Dan Gilbert bites the hand that feeds him and tells them that the food needs to get better. The Dolans are seemingly good little boys that take what’s given and do the best they can to spruce it up for the fans. It’s O.K. to serve Cleveland Indians baseball and expect people to show up, but don’t try to tell me that the playing field is fair.

The Indians need to stop mentioning the size of the Cleveland market and market dynamics so much and get a little indignant at the league that allows such payroll disparities. At least send out a letter saying that the state of the labor deal stinks and needs to move toward a salary cap. At least this would create an “us against the world” mentality instead of fans so closely associating the Dolans with all the ills of Major League Baseball as a whole. It’s so strange for a team that has been so good at sales and fan experience that they missed the boat on this part of the sales job. It’s like when Howard Stern spends months on end railing against his bosses and company that pays him. Even when he’s wrong his fans think he’s right. It becomes a rallying cry. It might just put more fans in the seats too.

  • porckchopexpress

    You know things have gotten bad when Iron Eyes Cody is the new Tribe Mascot.

  • Wgfsh

    Baseball games are kind of expensive and the trading away of the fan favorite players over the years is really beginning to hurt the team attendance wise.

    If the keep having success it will start to turn around.

  • mgbode

    Craig, you bring up a great point.  Unfortunately, ownership missed a great chance at having a platform to announce such inequities during this last round of CBA negotiations.  To say anything now, after keeping silent then, would be taken poorly (and rightly so). 

    Also, let’s mention the scruples that it would take to stand up to the MLB system.  MLBPA and MLB owners are in agreement currently over this being the best system for all to abide by.  To go against the good ole boys network of MLB owners would be hard enough, but to do so while also battling the players means that he would have to ensure to get some media support to even have a chance at winning some battles.

    The funny thing is that it would be a team like Cleveland that has players bypassing it as a destination for less money elsewhere already that could take such a stand without as much fear from the MLBPA (what? Casey Kotchman is going to take a backup job elsewhere in protest?).   

    I like the idea, now we need to formulate a plan of action. 

  • http://twitter.com/Dennymayo Denny

    I honestly would think less of the Tribe if Gilbert owned the team, to be honest. We’d become the Mets of the AL with his meddling.

  • Brendan

    The problem is that the system favors owners like the Dolans, who made huge profits off SportsTime Ohio last season, according to Forbes. The system favors owners who take their revenue “shares” from the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc. and pocket them. The fewer fans in the stands (revenue), the more the Dolans can rake in from revenue sharing.

  • Kirk

    My friends and I have been having this conversation with regards to getting the Jake back to 70% capacity on a regular basis.  The short answer is that it is not happening anytime soon either is 50%.  I like your points about Dan Gilbert, and that is the biggest difference between the Dolans and Dan Gilbert, you know who Dan Gilbert is.  If the Dolans walked into my house, I would have no idea who they were.  There needs to be a better face at the top with the Tribe.  Back in mid 90s, you knew everyone, now you really know, no one.  This town needs to feel a connection with the people on the team and not just the colors.

  • Bob6503

    We have season tickets in the Bleachers.  But – for each game add 15 dollar parking, 6 dollar pretzels, 10 dollar beers, and such.  Its expensive to be a season ticket holder – not just from the ticket prices, but from everything else.  Hope MLB and the Indians can figure it out.  Its nice to watch a winning team.  Unlike the Browns for which I have season tickets also…

  • mgbode

    The Dolans have Shapiro to be the face at the top though.  Isn’t that what we want?   A strong FO of baseball people running the baseball operations?

    Now, the difference between MLB and the NFL (w/ Holmgren) is there are legitimate short-comings to how far up our franchise can grow, and it is this inequity that would require the Dolan’s to become a strong voice as Craig noted above.  

  • http://www.waitingfornextyear.com Craig Lyndall

    I think you’re in the minority on this one. 

  • Adkuns

    Games are kind of expensive??? You can get bleacher seats for $10. I sat in the mezzanine yesterday for $17. Don’t talk about it being expensive, you have no clue. Parking was only $5 near the Hanna theatre and food is cheaper than almost all parks.

  • mgbode

    I have always felt like enough isn’t done for season ticket holders.  If you own a season pass at Sea World, for instance, you get 25% off all concession purchases.  Why not something similar for season ticket holders of sport teams?

    or is this done and just not really advertised?

  • mgbode

    For anyone without season tickets that wants to go to a game this week:
    http://www.tiqiq.com/Tiqiq/SingleEvent.aspx?BrandID=wfny&EventID=3797943022&PublisherID=39099&WidgetID=0

    Bleacher seats available for Wednesday’s game from $5. 
    2 Tickets for $5 = $10
    $5 parking (see other Indians threads today for ideas where to park for this amount)
    $16 beer money
    $20 food money

    $51 for 3 hours of entertainment while having beer and food along the way.  Definitely can go alot cheaper if you would wish, but figured I would present the “fun” option.

    ———————-

    or you could spend a little more on the actual ticket by going tonight, but it’s Dollar Dog Nite (so save money there if you like the Ballpark Hotdogs).

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    It must be Indians day today they just had the same topic on one of the local “news” stations.  Maybe fans are waiting for that unnamed player to be added to put the team over the hump.  You know the one they were promised, well kind of, sort of, maybe.

    DiBiasio get out there and spin your magic!

  • mgbode

    in 2007 that player was Kenny Lofton.  the player that gets you over the hump isn’t always the flashy in-the-prime guy you might think of first.

  • Fool Me Once

    I’m in agreement with this…by most accounts the Indians are at least a semi-competently run organization, the Jake is still a great place to take a game in, tickets/concessions are reasonable, and Acta and most of the players seem like a good bunch.

    But…

    It’s tough to follow a league seriously that doesn’t even try to have a semblance of competitive balance. And it’s tough to love a team that can’t retain it’s homegrown talent, and worse doesn’t even try. There’s a credibility factor with the fans here. It’s the Dolan’s choice to keep a balanced budget and to avoid rocking the boat. It’s my choice to avoid showing up to dreary and cold April games.

  • Lyon25

    it’s all about perspective though.  That may not be expensive for you, but too much for another.

    Me personally, I won’t go to a game and sit in the upper deck.  Why pay for a crappier view than I can get at home?  That’s why if I go, I’ll splurge for the better seats.  But I know a lot of other fans who would rather sit at home and have a great view than pay $20 and not see all the action.

  • Lyon25

    it’s all about perspective though.  That may not be expensive for you, but too much for another.

    Me personally, I won’t go to a game and sit in the upper deck.  Why pay for a crappier view than I can get at home?  That’s why if I go, I’ll splurge for the better seats.  But I know a lot of other fans who would rather sit at home and have a great view than pay $20 and not see all the action.

  • DCTribeFan

     I hear this all the time, but its not even close to correct…you actually think the Dolans are A-OK with drawing 1.3M fans (about 58M in revenue) rather than a MLB-average 2.5M fans (about 112Min revenue) so they can collect a $20M check from the league elite?  …..do that math, please…..which would you choose?

    Why do you think the Yankees, et al, are fine with writing those checks?

    In any business, you want to control your own revenue stream, not wait for some pitiable after-the-season handout from your competitors to keep you around and alive. And sorry, but Indians fans just aren’t that committed, no matter what you all want to think of yourselves. At least the Browns fans who whine about losing actually go to the games. Now you have a first place team to root for, and –today–a beautiful day to play hooky and watch them beat the Chisox, and about 5,000 people actually went.  It’s embarrassing sometimes to be an Indians fan–especially from 400 miles away.

    And it shouldn’t take some PR-oriented crap about “biting the hand that feeds you” to turn YOU (metaphorically speaking) into a real fan. A fan that attends the games on a beautiful day when your team is in first place, to watch them  hammer the guy who threw a perfect game 2 weeks ago.

    #endrant

  • Eric G

    Ugh, 2007.

  • DCTribeFan

     You also need a plan of action to address the myriad “Indians fans” who are so POed that Antonetti didn’t sign Pujols or Fielder that they’re “not renewing their season tickets” and “will never spend a dime on the Dolans”. If you can root out that brain-addled crew (or at least lobotomize them), then I’ll all in on your “fixing the MLB system” plan, whatever it might be.

    I’m good with Sharpies and poster board. It’s a start…

  • AlexMathews

    I have exactly the same mindset. I have no desire to go to a game and sit in the bleachers…it becomes a frustrating experience when all the action is just little specs hundreds of feet away. I’m only a student with limited disposable income…and because I’m picky about seats, I’m very selective about the games I go to as to not waste my money. That way I’m a lot more likely to go on a fireworks or dollar dog night, as to get the most value.

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    No they need to go out and get a legitimate player not an all-so-rand get you over the hump.  That is if they are still in the race near the deadline.

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    The bleachers are great seats I sat there the first season and for almost every game attended thereafter.  Players are far from little specs.

  • https://twitter.com/jimkanicki jimkanicki

    nice work on a complex issue craig. d’accord.

  • EyesAbove

    They should give season ticket holders some type of rewards card that can be swiped at the concession stands for 50 percent off or whatever. Or better yet a parking voucher, you can avoid ballpark food if you eat before the game, but you cant avoid that 10-20 dollar parking. 

  • Murdock

    Last year we saw a team that got off to a very hot start; may I remind you that these same attendance issues were apparent early last season. Players expressed their understanding that Cleveland fans had had their hearts broken too many times in the past and didn’t hold it against the timid fans. After the rise and fall of the team last year its hard to argue with the fans. Baseball fans in small markets feel like they can’t win and don’t care to be made fools of year after year. I predict that if a salary cap isn’t put into effect. the popularity of the sport in general may be at risk as increasingly fickle fans will find entertainment elsewhere.

  • BrownsFanSF

    At Atnt Park in SF you get a food voucher for like $7 or something.  It wasn’t much, but it’s a long ways towards ur first ridiculously over-priced beer.

  • Fenstemakeram08

    The fans despise the Dolans..put a product on the field like we had in the 90′s with ownership the fans think care about winning and the place will be packed. It is still cheaper to see a baseball game then a football or basketball game..the cavs had a bad team but they were fun to watch, and the browns manage to keep a buzz for better or worse (and the nfl is more equitable).Make baseball fun to watch again and I will gladly buy some tickets and take my boy to some games.

  • woofersus

    I agree that many fans don’t really see the Dolans caring about on-field outcomes in the way owners like Dan Gilbert or Mark Cuban care about what happens with their teams.  However, I don’t think this is the most significant reason attendance has suffered.  When the Indians sold out 455 straight home games it wasn’t the die hard baseball fans or even the season ticket buying types that caused it.  It was the casual fan wanting to go to the ballpark and take part in the magic.

    Sure a high likelihood of seeing a win and an offensively oriented club that hit lots of home runs helped them decide to spend their money that way, but we’ve had winning teams since then.  The Indians front office, really since the end of the John Hart era of players,
    has had the mantra that if you put up W’s the fans will return.  So why
    have they not?  For one thing, casual fans don’t follow the team
    closely enough to know in real time whether or not the Indians are “any
    good this year.”  It will be at least until the All-Star break before you see a significant uptick in “buzz” surrounding the team.  That’s just the way it works.  In the era of Indians dominance they were expected to be in contention every year, and that’s exciting.  In the absence of that the fans need something beyond the hope of a new season to draw them.

    The reality is that fans root for players.  In the late 90′s everybody in the northern half of Ohio knew about Kenny Lofton, Omar Vizquel, Jim Thome, Manny Ramirez, and a myriad of others who weren’t around quite as long.  Everybody was outraged when each of those stars left, too, because they cared about it.  The problem with losing guys like Victor Martinez is because he could have become one of those guys.  He could have been the next Sandy Alomar Jr. who enough fans recognize that it counts as a PR move to have him coaching.  Instead, my wife, who is a casual fan (and partly determines how many games I go see) doesn’t know who Victor Martinez is.  She could probably only name a couple of players on this year’s team. (hint, one of them is on the 60 day dl)  She doesn’t know the Indinas are good unless I tell her, but in the 90′s when we were in high school she wore Indians paraphernalia and she still talks about the evils of Albert Belle and Manny Ramirez leaving.  The bottom line is that while I may weigh the value of attending a game vs watching on tv and I may lose interest if the team is 20 games out of the division lead, casual fans don’t even watch games on tv all that much.  They only care if something exciting is happening and they feel a sense of connection to the team.

    I get the strategy at play.  Long term deals are long term risks.  Clubs get saddled with bad contracts and it hamstrings their ability to make a run 3 years later.  The Indians have focused on shorter contracts and financial flexibility and have tried to hit on prospects both from the draft and from the trading of players they can’t resign.  That’s not going to fill the seats.  You can’t be sellers at the trade deadline every year in which you aren’t going to make the playoffs and expect to build your fan base.

  • mitch6632

    I’ve said for years that the Indians biggest problem is their Marketing Communications and PR Departments.  

  • mgbode

    there will always be fans that are over-the-top like that.  not much you can do there other than utilize them because they tend to be the loudest during protests.  just try to organize the message before it gets there.

  • mgbode

    yep, the only 2 issues with the bleachers are hits to LF you will lose sight at times and close plays at 1B can get blocked.   but, they are nice views for sure IMO.

  • mgbode

    i was thinking beer would likely be excluded (the real moneymaker).  that’s some ahead-of-the-curve thinking in SF.

  • DCTribeFan

     Sounds logical.  Now explain why Pittsburgh, who hasn’t had a “star to root for” since Willie Stargell…(seriously, name one…) STILL averages at least 10,000 more fans per game than Cleveland.

    Could it just be they have better fans? Fans who show up and root for their team, even when they’re in last place (which they almost always are) have no “star” players, and have owners who cant overspend by $30M a year on payroll, like the Tribe?

    By attendance, the Tribe has the worst fans in MLB. Indisputable fact. Doesn’t even matter HOW you define “worst”, or which arguments you put up to defend it.

  • mgbode

    how many legitimate players are available at the deadline?  and, it’s not like the top of the farm system is highly thought of now that we emptied the best to the MLB-team and used the others to get Ubaldo.

  • mgbode

    “put a product on the field like we had in the 90′s”

    there are many reasons that is not going to happen even in the best of scenarios.

  • Steve

    Season ticket holders get quite a few amenities. And, once again, if you pay more than 5 bucks to park downtown except on opening day, the problem lies with you, not the Indians.

  • mgbode

    very well said though I disagree with the long term contracts.  the Indians did try it with Hafner and Sizemore and were bit by both.  the Twins with Mauer. etc.  you have to weigh the risk and sometimes it is worth the it, but many times it’s not.

    honestly, I think the Indians would have been better off if CC and Lee had been merely very good starters instead of aces.  better chance at keeping them and less pressure to trade them early to make sure we got something back.

  • Steve

    Here’s the problem. Fans think the 90s are easily achievable again. That was one of the two best runs in the history of the franchise (early 50s as well) where not only was the team talented, but the rest of the division waved the white flag before opening day even finished. The reality of the situation is that for most non-major market teams, a contending year followed by a couple .500 seasons is pretty good.

  • Steve

     Except you’re wrong. They market and PR as well as anyone out there.

  • mgbode

    Barry Bonds and Bobby Bonilla had a nice little run there.  Still 20+yrs ago

  • Steve

    Just because ownership didn’t whine, stamp their feet and throw a tantrum in public like Gilbert does, doesn’t mean they didn’t try to fix the inequities. In fact, we saw some steps toward achieving better financial balance. It’s not coming swiftly, but its coming. Also, for all the griping and missed time in the NBA, how much difference was really made? Gilbert complained, but what happened as soon as the league started up again? The same thing he was upset about to begin with. The only reason it was stopped was because the rest of the owners ran the Hornets and could nix the deal. The evidence shows that the Dolans and other small market MLB owners did more to achieve balance than the small market NBA owners. Making a big stink in public doesn’t mean you will actually get what you want.

  • woofersus

     I’m not intimately familiar with the Pittsburgh roster or who the fan
    favorites are, but I don’t necessarily mean superstars.  I’m not saying
    they should have gotten Pujols or anything.  I’m just saying that
    turning over the roster every 3 years causes fans to lose interest.  Winning certainly matters too though.

    Incidentally, while it’s true the Indians have the worst draw in
    baseball at the moment, Pittsburgh doesn’t have the greatest track
    record.  I checked back and the Indians had greater attendance than the
    Pirates every year from 1993-2009.  The Pirates have only had more
    attendance from 2010-2011 and last year was actually pretty close.  Last
    year the Indians had more attendance than Baltimore, Kansas City,
    Oakland, Toronto, Miami, Tampa Bay, and just missed Seattle by a few
    seats per game.  And, while we are once again rushing to label Indians fans the worst in basebal, you should note that attendance in Cleveland has been bad in April for some time.  Numbers are actually better right now than after the same number of games last year.

  • Steve

     He doesn’t seem to meddle with how the team is run (other than to undermine the authority of the front office when it comes to Lebron) but if you think we’d be the Mets, out signing FAs all the time, you would be sadly mistaken.

  • Steve

    How am I the only one who has liked this? DC hit the nail squarely on its head.

  • mgbode

    i thought the MLB CBA hurt the small markets more.  what ways do you think it helped them (the slight bump in luxury tax is the only I can think of)

  • mgbode

    we will have Carlos Santana for 7MLB seasons barring the unforeseen.  most of our other young stars too for 6-7 MLB seasons. 

    the problem is that alot of fans see that final date already and refuse to get attached now.  it’s a defense mechanism and I understand that, but I guess I just can get detached enough to cheer for them while they wear our uniform.

  • woofersus

    You certainly have to be judicious with long term contracts, but the Indians lack of success over the last few years hasn’t been because of the Hafner/Sizemore contracts.  It’s been because the selloffs haven’t resulted in equal value and drafting was terrible for like a 6 year period.  You’ve got to take a risk on a few of them or you never leave rebuilding mode.

  • woofersus

    Actually I think it just takes a few years for the names to become familiar.  The longer contracts for these youngsters has marked a bit of a change of strategy from the Shapiro years.  Some will hit and some will miss, but I think the fans will be more attached to the team in 3-4 years either way.

    Some of us know the pattern and see those final dates, but I honestly don’t think the average “casual fan” thinks that far ahead.

  • BrownsFanSF

    Concessions have been one of my big issues with live sports for a while.  There was a great Grantland article about it with the NFL last year.

    It never used to be a question, tailgating with your buddies down at the game was simply more fun.  These days it’s a tough choice. I love a summer baseball game as much as anyone.  I also love paying $9 for a six pack instead of a disposable cup bud light and getting a couple pizzas with my friends.

    How much money do the owners make from the concessions anyway?  Is it Dolan supposedly using this money to make a better team, or is some food vendor just robbing us blind?  And if it is just the food vendor, can’t pro teams just say “charge six bucks for ur beer or we’ll hire someone else”