May 24, 2013

Holmgren goes on media tour promising ‘big jump’ for Browns in 2012

May 8, 2012 by 80 Comments

We’ve heard from Mike Holmgren several times over the last few months say that he expects the Browns to take a significant leap forward. Not just in ‘intangibles’ but in the win column. The Browns were 4-12 last season, and 5-11 in his first year as President of the team.

In an interview on ESPN Cleveland today, Holmgren was asked by Tony Rizzo what happens if the team doesn’t take that jump forward. (Audio here.)

As you can imagine, there was no real answer given.

Holmgren admitted that he “would not be happy if we had the same record or close to it”, but then went on to reaffirm that he believes in his coach, and the people they have in place-

“You just have to persevere and get through the tough stuff when you’re building it.”

Since the beginning, Holmgren has talked about this being a long process. He has talked about consistency and letting the plan develop. Does that mean that if things go south this season Holmgren won’t consider making a change with his Head Coach?

Don’t get me wrong, I want Pat Shurmur to succeed. Not because I like Pat Shurmur, I really don’t know the guy what so ever. Met him one time at a Browns practice and I’m sure he doesn’t remember meeting me. I want Shurmur to succeed because like you I am growing tired of rebuilding. I know that replacing the coach would mean another set-back and more than likely another couple years before the Browns had any shot to compete in the North division, let alone the playoffs. This isn’t a piece calling for Shurmur to be out.

I would say that Holmgren is kind of painting himself into a corner.

This is his timetable. He is the one saying ‘significant jump’ in win and loss record. Not just the fans.

He says this despite a returning offense that was absolutely atrocious last season. An offense that will rely heavily on rookie running back Trent Richardson and rookie quarterback Brandon Weeden. An offense that will count on second year wide receiver Greg Little becoming a feature type wide out. An offense that will count on Mohamed Massaquoi to be more than he has been the last two years of his career. In other words, the odds are against it.

—-

Following his interview on Rizzo’s show, Holmgren taped a segment for All Bets Are Off, and then went on the Bull and Fox show on 92.3 The Fan with the same message- the Browns will be significantly better next season.

In both radio interviews, Holmgren said he believed the team was just a successful field goal snap away from being 7-9 last season. He mentioned that there should then be a little improvement in year 3. So if you were to try and read between the lines, it would be safe to say that Holmgren expects this team to be at least 8-8 next season.

Adam “The Bull” Gerstenhaber did follow-up, asking Holmgren what would happen if the team didn’t progress, and he refused to answer saying he believed things will get better not worse.

Is Holmgren trying to sell season tickets? Is he just trying to get the fans interested and excited about the team going into next year? Is he trying to take a little heat off of his head coach and GM?

Whatever his reasoning, Mike Holmgren has set the bar himself for next season. The sad part might just be that if the Browns were able to just clear that bar, we’d probably be ecstatic about it.

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  • 5KMD

    I wish someone, somewhere would draw a line in the sand in terms of the North division. The Browns will not complete for the ultimate prize until they start taking care of business against the steelers, bengals, and ravens ESPECIALLY AT HOME.

    Let’s go boys, start defending the home turf against our divisional neighbors. That is what I would stress.

  • technivore

    “Holmgren said he believed the team was just a successful field goal snap away from being 7-9 last season.”
    That may be the most Cleveland Browns thing I’ve ever read.

  • C-Bus Kevin

    Agreed. Especially since those teams represent over a third of the schedule each year.

    I’d say 8-8 is reasonable. Really, .500 should be the baseline every year. In my opinion, .500 is a solid C grade. 10 wins is a B. 12 wins is an A. Right now, this team is getting an F. At this point, I think most fans would be happy to take the class pass/fail.

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    These are the kinds of things that lead me to call him The Big Ego.  Either that or he really is delusional of course if he “would not be happy if we had the same record or close to it” probably means his job is safe but Heckert and Shurmur’s may not.
    ——
    Holmgren said he believed the team was just a successful field goal snap away from being 7-9 last season.

    All this team did was kick field goals and I see it was Pontbriands (sp) fault which must be why they got rid of him.  Can anyone say scapegoat?
    ——

    No pressure on Weeden…7-9 or 8-8 with the schedule they have upcoming, wow, Brandon better get to work today! 

    These kind of interviews make no sense I understand the reasoning behind it but as soon as he put a # on the win total he created a potential problem with fans.  And you wonder why alot of people are dissatisfied.

  • DontbringLBJback

    “Holmgren said he believed the team was just a successful field goal snap away from being 7-9 last season.”

    Ok, well, you can say that, but you could also say that if we never turned the ball over, and didn’t commit any penalties, and scored more than all the teams we played, we’d be 16-0.

    You can say a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean they’re not just plain silly.

  • C-Bus Kevin

    Ha! Good call. You know the bar is low when you are trying to convince fans that you were soooooo close…to still being bad.

    That’s like a 400-lb person bragging that they just missed their goal of losing 100 lbs…you’re still fat.

  • DontbringLBJback

    My feelings exactly.

  • 216in614

    I mean what is he supposed to say? Of course he has to come out saying there is going to be a significant jump. Would you ever expect him to come out and say this year we will get to 6/10 or 7/9?

  • mgbode

    let’s see what we did to improve:

    offense:
    Weeden (McCoy)
    Richardson (Hillis – when he was healthy)
    Schwartz (Pashos)
    Little/Pinkston/Lauvao – going into 2nd full year starting should improve
    *wildcards*  Benjamin, Cameron, Mitchell, Moore – can any step up into a starter role?

    Defense:
    Rucker/Parker/Winn (a gaping empty hole)
    Hughes (Schaefering – rotation DT)
    JMJ/Acho (Maiva/Fujita – though we still have them too)
    *wildcards*  Hagg, Wade

    ST
    Benjamin – PR (Cribbs)

    ———————————

    impossible to tell if that is enough at this point, but just wanted to lay it out there.

  • http://twitter.com/oribiasi oribiasi

    “I know that replacing the coach would mean another set-back and more than
    likely another couple years before the Browns had any shot to compete
    in the North division, let alone the playoffs. This isn’t a piece
    calling for Shurmur to be out.”

    Oh, you know this, do you?  And, how do you know this?  What proof do you have?  What kind of future-sight do you possess where you KNOW that firing Shurmur and hiring someone else will instantly destroy the 4-12 “achievements” we have had?

    Once more, I ask you to look at the 49ers.  After firing an incompetent (albeit wonderful NFL linebacker) they hired a new coach.  Maybe there were fans in SanFran saying the same thing you’re saying; fire Singletary and prepare for the abyss of 0-16 due to another regime change.

    But, do you know what happened?  They hired the RIGHT man and they were from 6-10 to 13-3 and a playoff berth.

    You cannot (and no one should ever) say that firing Shurmur would be an 100% certain way to ruin this team. 

    In my opinion, getting rid of that inept fool who doesn’t remember what TE is getting a hand off would only improve this team, unless you replaced him with Al Davis.

  • DonFelder

    Not a Holmgren fan, but who cares how he answers questions about the win total? That’s like someone asking an entry-level job applicant how much they expect to get paid. There’s no easy answer and it’s a dumb question to begin with. But that being said, Holmgren set up these questions himself when he said winning 5 games was “not enough” and his hand-picked guy proceeded to win 4 the following year (with the benefit of another Heckert draft, no less). 

  • DontbringLBJback

    I’m with you 100%.  If you bring in Bill Cowher to coach this team, you get 2-3 more wins instantaneously.  

    I like you comment, Sherman is an “inept fool”…  only that was sugar coating it. :)

  • Thepaledragon

    Regardless of what was said, doesn’t Holmgren deserve some credit for this media blitz. Weren’t we just talking a few months ago about how silent he had been during the draft process?

    Of course he’s not going to answer the questions about what will happen if the team doesn’t improve this year. Why put Shurmur under additional pressure? And why have such negative thoughts? Some optimism would be a nice change of pace in Berea.

  • http://twitter.com/Pelderskelter Patrick Elder

    Nothing. That’s what he’s supposed to say. He’s supposed to be ambivalent towards the win total, and espouse that wins aren’t as important as seeing marked improvement and being competitive in every game. He should have acknowledged the difficult schedule, said that he expects us to be competitive in every game and NOT have given an estimate of our win total.

    He’s only setting himself and the organization up for failure by biting off more than we can chew.

  • http://twitter.com/oribiasi oribiasi

    Sometimes, and I really mean this, it’s like putting a new coat of paint on a Katrina car.  It’s still rotted in the inside and full of problems.

    The “car” in this metaphor is the Browns and the “rot” is Pat Shurmur/Mike Holmgren.  But I think you’re bright enough to figure that out.

  • http://twitter.com/oribiasi oribiasi

    Of course you do, its the only sensible way based on facts to look at this nonsense.

    Now, don’t worry, the true believers here will tell you tales about how much better the Niners’ roster was compared to ours, etc.

    If they were so amazing, that would shine through even the dumbest of coaches.  Individual players would still have banner years, in a losing cause.  See:  Hillis, Peyton in 2010. 

    In the Niners’ case, see: Gore, Frank. 

    It took a competent, experienced and damn good coach like Jim Harbaugh to make the most out of the talent he has.  To turn individual performances into TEAM performances. 

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    Not enough, not enough with the schedule they face or more importantly for the division the Browns reside.  This is why for the life of me I don’t understand the reluctance to participate more in free agency.  I know I’m a broken record but you aren’t going to nail every draft so you better find a way to supplement it. 

    I honestly feel like the Browns dropped the ball this draft.  By this I mean it was far from the homerun it needed to be WHEN it’s the only way you improve your roster.  Richardson was a homerun, well, lets hope so because if he’s not UH-OH.  We’ll see on Weeden and Schwartz.  Schwartz better perform when there were other RTs.  Weeden has a little time but not as much as he would have if not for Heckert/Schurmur annointing him before he ever took a snap.  After those top three it’s a crapshoot.  IMO.

  • http://twitter.com/oribiasi oribiasi

    Here’s an interesting thought:  how long do you give Weeden?  1 season?  2?  If he doesn’t work out in 2 years…then what?

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    I couldn’t agree more with you.  To me it shows his mentality or EGO in the need to label a win total.  Maybe he’s trying to inspire I don’t know but like you said he should have given a boring dry speel about adding significant talent which will need to be groomed and improved upon.  Honestly I think Holmgren believes Richardson & Weeden will completely turn around the offense and they might, I said might.  I personally think a potential turnaround will have to do more with TRich then Weeden but time will tell.  I don’t buy into Weeden coming in and making the horrible collection of WRs he has to work with that much better.  Last time I checked Weeden wasn’t being mentioned with the Mannings, Elways, Roethlesbergers and Bradys of the world.

  • DontbringLBJback

    If he is anointed the starter from day 1, I think we’re going to know if he has what it takes by mid-season.  My guess (sick feeling in my stomach) is that he performs much like Colt.  He’ll have some good games, and he’ll have some bad games.  And at the end of the year we’ll be discussing whether or not to go after Matt Barkley. 

    Of course, we won’t have anyone for Barkley to throw to either.

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    The only thing worse then the Browns drafting of QBs has been the selection of head coaches.  I’m frankly tired of promoting assistants to head coaches in this town.  I don’t know how SF did it or Baltimore but Cleveland is clueless and luckless when it comes to hiring head coaches.  I really hope Shurmur has a better second season.  He’ll have all his mini-camps, summer workouts not to mention a QB and RB so lets see how great his offense is this time.  It couldn’t be worse.

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    Excellent ?s I don’t know but the Browns better because they drafted him in the first round and have all but guaranteed he’s the new starter.  I saw that press conference the night of round one when Shurmur & Heckert annointed Weeden and all I could do was think, “Here we go again.”  I had Couch nightmares that night.

    The next GM will draft the next QB for the next head coach.  Holmgren will still be around because he’s in charge of the business side of the team not personnel!  LoL

  • Harv 21

    That’s exactly what he should say, Patrick. Something about Big Mike and the mic. Just can’t seem to control the words that come pouring out. It’s fine when you’re winning, but right now these unnecessary statements are wince-inducing.

  • TheRobot57

    Of all the Cleveland Browns in the world, we’re the Cleveland Browniest.

  • TheRobot57

    I would just like to have a coach who isn’t starting his first HC job or didn’t just get fired from his last HC job. Someone with some success as a HC. Call me a dreamer.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/HV2SIFP7KDJJAXRJERUIDRNNKY Ken

    then we shouldve gotten a new fg kicker    dam why a qb

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    I’m cringing.  I didn’t like Weeden’s selection IN THE FIRST ROUND but I know two things: First, he better be better then McCoy BY A MILE and second, he better not lose any games.  He doesn’t have to win them just don’t lose them.

    I’m hoping just so I don’t have to listen and read about it that Weeden can come in and perform to a satisfactory level.  If not and the drum beat of yet another prospective QB starts beating then I say get rid of ‘em all.  By this I mean the front office, heck the owner on down!  LoL

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    ^5

  • mgbode

    I disagree.  If we just wanted a QB to “not lose games” then we shouldn’t have replaced McCoy. 

    Cam Newton lost Carolina some games early last year.  The GB game in particular was mostly on his bad decision making.  But, he was willing to try to “win” games.  That better be what we get in Weeden.

  • mgbode

    mid-season?   did you know for sure if Derek Anderson was good enough 8 games into his starting career?

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AndeDe00/gamelog/2007/

    *note* 3 starts in 2006

  • TSR3000

    You could argue that Mangini had some success with the Jets.

  • kjn

    The funny thing is: spouting out win totals only hurts himself, along with those under him.

    No answer is going to appease the fans. Only winning will do that. By putting a total out there, he’s imposing a metric on himself by which other will judge him.

    He should have punted, given a Wedge-ian answer – “keep grinding, believe in the process, play hard, etc. etc.”. That might have garnered some eye rolls, but who really cares about those? At least ambiguity like that won’t cost you or your people their jobs if things don’t turn out so well.

    Mike, you’re your own worse enemy. While I’ve accepted that I have to give you and your regime it’s chance, I am quitely frankly amazed at the things you say and the situations you place yourself in. Your decision making engenders no faith in me.

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    I wouldn’t mention Weeden in the category of Newton I certainly hope those aren’t the expectations for him.  If it is, you and whoever else think that are setting yourself up for the potential of a major disappointment.

    This is why I was in favor of keeping McCoy as the starter and adding offensive talent around him.  Worst case scenario would have been had the offense struggled for a second year you replace McCoy. 

    The way the Browns have done it is loaded with potential pitfalls.  For an organization who has missed more then hit I don’t understand the thinking.

  • dan

    So, we’ve gone from having to build slowly through the draft, seeking improvements, getting better and better, building for the long run, you can’t expect success overnight, etc., to now expecting a “big jump.” Sigh.

    As others have noted, in some ways the Browns were incredibly lucky last year — lucky, but bad. They had above average health on the d-line, for example. If they could have won a few more games with the ball bouncing differently a couple of times, they equally could have lost a few more. I, personally, thought 4-12 a fairly accurate reflection of the team’s performance. Some things will go wrong in 2012, too, you know. Perhaps Holmgren is just practicing for next year, when he’ll be saying the same kind of “well, if things has just gone a little differently” stuff.

  • mgbode

    First, I wasn’t putting Cam Newton expectations on Weeden.  I was demonstrating that even a wildly successful rookie QB (by all accounts) still will “lose” games because that is the nature of the beast.

    Second, from a pure passing standpoint, why not?  Weeden isn’t going to run for those 1st downs and TDs like Cam.  But, take a look at what happened once defenses kept a safety overtop on SteveSmith (post game4):
    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NewtCa00/gamelog/2011/

  • DFelder

    Yeah, that’s football for you, and trying to qualify a BAD 4-12 as being a “few snaps away” from 7-9 is especially dishonest when the team should have lost at least 2, if not 3 of the games it ended up winning (definitely should have lost Jacksonville and Seattle, could have easily lost the Miami game where Colt executed a 2 minute drill). 

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    Well I just think if people are expecting Weeden to win games it’s a mistake but that’s just my opinion.  I’d rather have Richardson try to win games. 

  • Roosevelt

    I know it too, and the reason is because it’s the Browns. The same way that every coaching change they made in the last 14 years has involved a new regime that had no use for the two good players that were here, and had to ship them out so they could install a new system from scratch, the next coaching change will bring that too. Yeah, the 49ers are struggling, but they’re a real NFL team that has a history of occasionally making good decisions. 

  • floydrubino

    I know I have full trust in someone that hired Shurmur as a head coach. Holmgren has brought so much to this team. He has brought aaaaaaaaahh I’m thinking. Can someone seriously name one thing that Holmgren himself has brought to the team. Randy Lerner is clueless about every decision he has ever made. Mangini is clueless about talent and so is Holmgren and these are the guys he is letting make every decision. Holmgren needs to stop eating donuts get in shape and start coaching this team because it is the only thing he will ever be able to offer.

  • mgbode

    we’ll need both if we are to win games

  • hanover_fist

    Am I missing something? A successful field goal snap would have gotten us 3 more wins?

  • Foghorn Leghorn

    thank you.  I dont get this either.  I thought that was only the St. Louis game.  WTF is he talking about?  Momentum???

  • porckchopexpress

    That might be my favorite Browns line ever.  I can just see Lucy saying it to a fedora topped Paul Brown wearing Charlie Browns striped shirt.

  • porckchopexpress

    Technically you used an analogy not a metaphor.  Metaphorically speaking you should have said something like.  “The Browns are a lemon whose flaws are not yet discovered by its owner.” 
    Actually a car and the Browns are terrible things to use metaphorically.  You should have used something like a tree;  “The Browns appeared a mighty oak, but unbeknownst to those who casually gazed as they passed, they rotted them from the inside.” 
    That is metaphor my man.  What you did was draw a direct comparison between the Browns being a car and their coaches being some sort of rot, which is an analogous relationship. 
    Now you could be clever and mix the two like this:  The Browns appeared a might oak, but nbeknownst to those who casually gazed as they passed their coaches, like blight rotted them, from the inside.

    As a studier of Latin I thought you would have been “bright enough to figure out” the roots meta and ana. 

  • porckchopexpress

    I’m terribly sorry ori, I shouldn’t have said that  cars and I thought up a metaphor involving cars and Katrina. 

    After the draft, the Browns appeared a car with a shiny new veneer, however, those who looked deeper saw the flaws of its underpinnings.

    See the difference between what I did and what you did? 

    If you need any more help understanding the difference between analogy and metaphor please let me know.  In 3 months I don’t want to read you “metaphorically” speaking about Shurmur being “like” a turnip.

  • http://twitter.com/bbo13 B-bo

    Just to recap, in the style of the Internetz:

    Holmgren avoids interviews/gives interviews out of market–Y U NO TALK TO US?!

    Holmgren gives local interviews, answers questions–Y U SAY WRONG THING?!

    Forgive the grammar, but…Welcome to Cleveland: Where you can please none of the people, none of the time

  • http://twitter.com/oribiasi oribiasi

    Let’s re-cap our koolaid fan base: 

    They went 5-11 — YAY!
    They went 4-12 — YAY!

  • http://twitter.com/oribiasi oribiasi

    I don’t know whether to buy you a beer or suggest a good psychiatrist after reading this.  Or both.

    Ave atque vale.

  • http://twitter.com/bbo13 B-bo

    Yes, I fondly recall the champagne being popped here on the WFNY message boards as we lost in Week 17 to clinch 4-12 this past season. Glorious.

  • DontbringLBJback

    Yes, I did know that DA was NOT good enough to be an NFL starter after 8 games.  Even though his numbers appear good in his 5 wins in those first 8 games, we all knew it and saw the terrible decisions that DA made over and over again.  And even though he threw 17 TD’s in those 8 games, he also threw 9 INTs.  2007 was an exciting year because they started 5-3, but I as well as everyone else knew that DA’s poor decision making was going to catch up with him once defenders watched tape of him keying in on certain WR’s, and not being able to check down to his 2nd and 3rd options.  He just didn’t have the football IQ to be an NFL starter.  No question.

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