Box Score: Indians 7, Orioles 2
June 28, 2012While We’re Waiting… Waiters, Zeller and a little Tribe
June 29, 2012There are plenty of skeptics when it comes to the Cleveland Cavaliers’ selection of Dion Waiters with the 4th overall pick in Thursday night’s NBA draft. Syracuse head coach Jim Boeheim is not one of them. Despite a lot of anger and disappointment from Cavs fans, Boeheim told CBS New York’s Jon Rothstein that those fears are unfounded:
“He’s more ready for the NBA than any other guard I’ve ever had,” Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim said of the 6-foot-4, 215 pound Waiters on Tuesday. “Nobody will be able to guard him one on one unless their last name is Westbrook. He’ll go by anyone he faces. Dion started out the draft process at 25 or 30 and has risen dramatically. It should come as no surprise, he’s got all the tools.”
Not that the list of Syracuse guards in the NBA is all that impressive1, but this is still high praise from a coach with whom Waiters had his share of run ins with in his two seasons at Syracuse.
Another underrated aspect of Waiters’ game is his NBA-ready frame. While some fans have expressed concern over Waiters’ height at the SG position, Boeheim feels his body type will be an asset at the next level:
“It’s huge,” Boeheim said in reference to Waiters’ physical attributes. “You look at some players in college and they’re good players but they’re not physically ready for the next level. That’s something that doesn’t affect Dion. He’s more than ready in that aspect and he’s also ready to play with other good players because he played at Syracuse. People sometimes say if you play at a lesser program and put up better numbers that it’s better for your chances in the NBA but that’s not the truth. In the NBA, you have be able to co-exist with other great players. Dion’s already done that.”
Boeheim may be a little biased when it comes to Waiters, but that doesn’t make him wrong. Despite Cleveland fans’ obvious let down factor over not getting Michael Kidd-Gilchrist or Bradley Beal, the fact remains that with those guys off the board, Waiters was arguably the next best wing player available to the Cavaliers. Several analysts and draft pundits have had nothing but good things to say about the Cavaliers’ pick of Dion Waiters. Jim Boeheim would agree with them.
[Related: 2012 NBA Draft: Cleveland Cavaliers Select Dion Waiters, SG, Syracuse]
- no offense to Jonny Flynn [↩]
59 Comments
I refuse to believe that the outpouring negativity on Twitter last night is representative of the true fan base. I personally cannot wait to see this kid running the floor in a CLE jersey.
I think a lot of people are still looking for a SF to replace you know who. The fact is we filled a huge need here, and I can’t wait to see him play with Kyrie.
It’s my highly speculative opinion that people freaked out because the pick wasn’t what they expected.
I was mostly bummed that CHA took MKG. Looking forward* to next year
*waiting isn’t strong enough in this case
It’s not. Twitter attracts the vitriolically inclined. I think the percentage of twitter users who are bright, etc. and see Twitter as a means for sharing thoughts in a productive space is pretty low…
it’s been said on multiple threads here, but regardless of how waiters turns out, two years of drafting that brings Kyrie, Knight, PJIII and Robinson is lightyears better than Kyie, Waiters, TT and Zeller. disapointing to say the least. i like the new core, but given the Finals we just saw, can this team ever reach that level of play?
everyone just wanted MKG or Beal and had spent a lot of time talking themselves into Barnes. I think the fact that no one had considered Waiters at 4 led to a lot of the “OMG WUTTT!?” reactions. I didn’t get all upset because I had read Hollinger’s draft rater saying Waiters was the best wing, and that wings rated higher than 13 (Waiters was higher than 14) are almost can’t miss all-stars. It’s not like he doesn’t meet some of the eye test either. Plenty of youtube clips of him dunking OVER people or making sweet spin moves in the paint a-la Wade. Also, he’s HUUUUUUGE. I mean he’s only 6’4″ or whatever but the dude is as heavy as Anthony Davis. And he dunks over people. So, this pick might work out. I also remember Chad Ford saying back in may that a few of the GMs he respected very much though Waiters was the only guy other than AD that could become a superstar from this draft. High Risk, High reward. Let’s hope it pans out. Give the fan base some time, they just expect the worst (can you blame them. No, you cannot. I’m not even going to leave that there for answering because someone will come up with a reason why Cleveland fans should be “positive”) Not sure I like the Zeller pick. Would have swung for the fences and gone quincy Miller there but the Cavs NEED A 7 foot center. And I guess they got that. Hopefully he can handle the NBA game, but I’m thinking he’ll be a career backup. Comparisons to Z are a stretch. 7 had like a 12 foot wingspan and was automatic from 18 feet. And he was highly skilled with either hand around the rim. Zeller looks fairly athletic for a 7 footer, but don’t think he’s on Z’s level.
Twitter is almost as reliable for taking the temperature on an issue as “Sources” are for their insider information.
Well then I’ll gladly await the “maybe this wasn’t so bad” tail between the legs crowd to come waltzing through the door. They’ll probably be the ones wearing Mitchell Schwartz jerseys.
I’m happy with last night. Yes isn’t at all what I expected but, I didn’t expect some guy I never heard of in Tristan Thompson to be called last year. He turned out to be a pretty darn good pick imo.
Yes, because “true fans” obviously know better than to complain. Hell, I bet all the “true fans” don’t even have a twitter, that would explain their silence. Get over yourself.
The Cavs draft an athletic center, a deadly shooting point guard and a physical 2 guard with some character issues. The only thing that makes me upset is knowing that in 4 years we are trading Dion Waiters for the next, next, next Larry Bird.
I think you’re getting the Cavs confused with the Indians.
can I borrow your time machine when you’re done with it?
I was in that camp. Frankly, I hadn’t read too much about him b/c I didn’t think he was being targeted by the Cavs until yesterday morning, and I thought that was a smokescreen.
I’m being pleasantly surprised by what I’m reading today.
There are going to be growing pains to be sure, but I have no idea how you can’t be excited having a five on the floor -all under age 25 – of Irv, Waiters, Gee, Thompson, and Zeller. They are going to struggle in half court sets but they are going to be scary in the open court.
The biggest challenge they are going to have is letting Irv and Waiters feel each other out as back court mates. Irving was real bad at moving without the ball when Sessions was in with him last year. At times he is going to have to figure out places to be when Waiters is working. Meanwhile Waiters is going to have to figure out ways to move without the ball and get to spots on the court without dribbling. I confess to not knowing a ton about him, but in the games I watched he seemed to be more comfortable catching on the wing and breaking a man down off the dribble.
Finally I’m cautiously optimistic because according to Ford and others Waiters is the best guy in the draft at getting to the rim in a half court set. As much as dead eye shooters benefit from a point guard like Irving, a guy who loves to drive getting a 2-3 foot head start when his man sags on Irving is going to have a field day.
PJIII and Robinson have played as many minutes in the NBA as Waiters and Zeller and you’re saying they would be lightyears better? How do you know this? If you have a time machine can I borrow it for a day or two?
I agree with much of this. Everyone gets so worked up over shooters, but I’ll take a team full of guys who attack the rim over guys who shoot a lot any time. Look at the Heat, they tried to be shooters last year. Drive and kick, jump shot after jump shot. This year, they were much more focused on going to the rim, and they looked like an infinitely better team for it.
Shooters can get hot and cold. A guy who can get to the rim at will is invaluable in the NBA. I love that both Kyrie and Waiters love attacking the rim. You’re right about their on-court chemistry. They have to get that figured out. But if they do, this could be an excellent back court duo for years to come.
After MKG and Beal went in the second and third picks, I am pleased that the Cavs didn’t take Barnes.
I spend a lot of time in North Carolina and watch quite a bit of UNC basketball. Zeller is a very solid if unspectacular center that runs the floor well and mixes it up under the basket.
I remember reading this NY Times article on Dion Waiters back in March and thinking “I wonder if this guy will drop to the Cavs at 24?”. It is a pretty good read and the motivational quotes from Boeheim that lit a fire under Waiters are priceless.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/sports/ncaabasketball/newly-focused-syracuses-dion-waiters-thrives.html?pagewanted=all
I like the moves that Grant has made in the last two drafts.
Go Cavs
– Grant has brass cajones. Because at least a few guys drafted after Waiters will be studs, Grant has hitched his career to this guy, without a private workout. Wow.
– I’m kind of over the fact he didn’t start when I heard Boeheim’s explanation.
– Didn’t watch the video on him until a few days ago, but looks like he can overpower anyone at the rim – really strong – and I think he will be a very good outside shooter. Kyrie’s assists are going to skyrocket and his drives will be easier when entire defenses can’t collapse on him anymore.
– One thing about Zeller: probably means Andy will be traded before the deadline, so we’d have possibly 3 total first rounders next draft (ours, Sac’s and one for Andy?) and more deals galore.
Would have been Beal or Waiters and Zeller
I’m not so sure about the Andy part. His versatility at playing PF/C will allow Coach Scott to use a 3 man front court rotation of AV/TT/Zeller. If you trade Andy, then you’re back to having to use Erden and Samuels (or something similar).
Unless the Cavs get an offer that just blows them away and they cannot pass on, I hope they keep Andy. He is just so valuable to this team.
you and I have had this conversation. I want to keep Andy. Just suspect Grant is trying to set up for a kill in next year’s draft, accumulating picks to maneuver high into the lottery again. Add a top small forward to Kyrie, a developing Tristan, explosive Waiters and solid center like Zeller and that’s a serious young core.
Great read. Great pick.
I get the questions about him not starting for the Orange but this guy plays like a pitbull. We needed toughness at the wing. He will be a major upgrade over Boobie and Parker. As for Zeller, the scouts all said he was the best big man in the draft at running the floor. I wanted Waiters and im not upset with Zeller. Can’t wait to see this team on the floor next year.
True fans, i.e people who actually understand the game of basketball know you can’t judge the draft on draft night. Did you see how the supposed “true fans” at the Q last night were cheering louder for the Zeller pick than the Waiters pick? That’s ridiculous. To me that is cheering because yaaaaaay we know that name! I guarantee Waiters will have a better pro career than Zeller, but the “true fans” are too busy taking to twitter to piss and moan because we didn’t draft someone who’s name was mentioned more in ESPN articles.
It’s about the end result. The finish line. True fans know that.
The negativity is unreal let these kids play a minute before lighting the bonfires. I’m willing to let Waiters play and learn I like his athleticism and ability to get to the basket. People have to remember he was a sixth man and yes immature at Syracuse but looks to have skills. Once MKG and Beal were taken it was really a crapshoot. I’ll be interested to learn how the Cavaliers settled on him and not say Barnes or even possibly Lamb.
P.S. Twitter is the sh*&&er the only thing it’s good is for lineups and injury updates as far as sports.
I have to echo the comments below. How can you even make a statement like that without seeing 80% of the players named above play a single minute?
I was super bummed out when MKG went two. It definitely took me an hour or two to get comfortable with Waiters (I didn’t take to twitter lol). But I am excited now.
LOOOOVED the Zeller move. We got possibly the best center in the draft for the 24 and 2 seconds (which 95% of the time end up d-leaguers). Sold
You can also teach a guy to shoot, you can’t teach a guy to have a 40 inch vert, shoulders he borrowed from D-Howard and “I’m the most athletic guy on this floor” swag.
Let him figure out the jumper a-la Kidd, Jefferson, Iggy (heck even Leonard). He can run, jump and defend – we can build on this.
Don’t forget Miami/LA’s pick
That’d make it 4 first rounders. We have Lakers/Heat pick whichever is more favorable, though the Miami pick is top ten protected.
I would be surprised if Andy wasn’t offered to GS when Barnes fell that low. I’m guessing they just declined because they wanted him too
That’s what alot of people have to remember this was basically phase 2 of at least a 3 step rebuild. Once MKG & Beal were gone it was a matter of who fit what the Cavaliers had in mind. I can’t believe all of the people mentioning Z and Zeller in the same sentence. They are completely two different players. I guess the fact that bothare 7’0″ helps. Anyways I see alot of revisionist history on Z from what I read this guy was a perenial All-Star. Between his health and game it took Z years to develop and when he did he was the definition of an international NBA player. That’s outside on offense with a lack of physicality. Zeller is the complete opposite. He’s an inside player who will contribute day one. He won’t be on highlight reels dunking all over and stuff but the kid is solid. The Cavaliers haven’t had a true center in years. Z was as close as they ever got since Daugherty, I also agree that Varejao might just remain now. Heck there isn’t a rush to move him hopefully he stays healthy. If he can come the trade deadline you’ll have options.
Guess I’m not a true fan then, even though I “understand the game of basketball,” and watch plenty of the NCAA & NBA. I love people on here (and else where in general) who “know sports” cuz they write blogs & comment on forums. Walk around with their noses in the air like theyre better fans for some reason cuz they knew who Dion Waiters was before his name was called. Congratulations, that’s great for you & I did too, I also know he never started a game at Cuse, hard for me to be real excited about that. It’s ok to be disappointed in the draft. You don’t need to put down other fans (of the same team for Christ sakes) because they didnt like the draft as much as you did. It honestly feels like to me that some people just blindly trust the FO and put down other fans to reassure themselves that everything will be fine. I understand the finish line concept, isn’t that what we all want? A trophy. We’re in the same group, just relax a little bit.. geesh…
OMG you can’t compare Parker or Gibson to almost any of the SGs in this draft not by a mile. P&G were basically one dimensional players the guys in this draft do so much more.
Haven’t followed the players leading into the draft, but my simplest questions is this: If this guy is a #4 pick, why was he coming off the bench?
I suppose it really depends on what someone will give up for Andy. I’d hate to see us give him up for a full lottery protected pick next year. But if we could get, say, a top 5 protected pick or something, I might be interested. We’ll just have to see. I know the Cavs organization thinks the world of Andy. They won’t let him go cheaply.
Yeah, I totally agree. I always feel like shooting is one of the easier skills to pick up. It just takes an insane amount of repetition and muscle memory. But that’s so much easier to work on than, say, rebounding. Rebounding is a fine art that most players either have or they don’t. You don’t see people learning to rebound that often. But guys do improve their shot all the time.
It’s why rebounding is the easiest skill to project in the NBA. Either you know how to do it, or you don’t. Shooters are much more difficult to project.
We’re not getting Sacramento’s pick anytime soon. They have to figure out how to get out of the top 10 of the lottery first.
Andy is valuable right now, which doesn’t really help the team (unless you can see the difference between 25 and 30 wins). We need someone who can help the team in 3 years. There is no reason to try to max out wins this year. Build a team that will compete 3 years from now.
per Windy’s column today, Grant doesn’t want more than two rookies/year, and we already have all these potential picks next year again. So maybe Andy stays. He has no real hops or speed to lose, and I really think a Cavs team poised to win big in 3 years will be looking for an Andy, a twenty-teens version of Nate Thurmond or Shaq.
Ok, I’m back on the KeepAndy train. The injuries may linger longer but the inspired intangibles are already here so why shop for the same guy later when you have picks for more young talent.
I always thought that was so counter-intuitive – but year after year it holds true. You’d think with all those bigger stronger bodies in the NBA that rebounding would be hard to predict, meanwhile the basket is the same height everywhere you go, shooting should be shooting right?
Andy will be extremely valuable 3 years from now as a savvy veteran with tons of playoff experience. He’s the exact kind of glue guy that most NBA Champions have at least one of on their team.
Windy’s article was phenomenal. Grant saying before the draft he only wanted 2 players really puts the Zeller trade into perspective for those who thought it was too much. Grant had a plan and followed it to a T.
Just before the draft I assembled my top ten list. I loved MKG and thought we had a good chance to get him, but it didn’t happen. I figured Waiters would slip (even though i ranked him 5th) and teams would be kicking themselves for missing him. I see Zeller as a solid/true center for the next ten years and was shocked he fell out of the lottery. Teams seemed to be looking for upside instead of proven production.
My T10: Davis, MKG, Beal, Trob, Waiters, Lillard, Barnes, Zeller, Lamb, Drummond
Based on how the first three picks went, i’m happy with this draft.
Standing still, I would say yes. But with defenders in the NBA being taller, faster, more athletic, and more skilled than those in the NCAA, you get so many fewer good looks in the NBA. It’s why there’s a premium on being able to create your shot and getting to the rim.
I may have been a bit harsh on you but you have to agree that in this town there is a certain automatic negative response that comes from the fan base no matter if it’s the Indians, Cavs, or (especially) the Browns.
For every fan out there who legitimately disliked a move for XYZ (actual reasons based on fact) there are 10 more who regurgitate what they hear on 850 or 92.3.
Again sorry for being harsh but just as bitter as some fans are with our teams I am getting bitter with the fans.
I understand. I am annoyed with both the arrogant side of the fan base as well as the ignorant side. I also don’t live in Cleveland so I don’t get any of the sports radio idiots that I know call in. I think it will all just be so much better when (*gulp*…. if….) we win a championship.
My point was just that some people on here are too quick to just call someone an idiot or question their fandom because they don’t like a move. I got on here, and it was instantly “oh… if you disagree with these picks, youre not a true fan! you dont know about sports!”… that’s too much.
take it you’re not a Robinson fan. If he’s Karl Malone, they might get right out.
A friend of mine from Syracuse said Boeheim likes to play upperclassmen at guard over freshmen and sophomores, but I’m not sure how true that is… might be more about adding a spark to the team.