Report: Robert Hernandez Could Be Back In Cleveland By All-Star Break
June 1, 2012Robert Griffin III being referred to as “The Arm”
June 1, 2012ESPN’s Chad Ford, no matter how you feel about his talent evaluation, is an NBA draft pundit who definitely has his ear to the ground when it comes to NBA team intel. As with the NFL draft, there is always misinformation being intentionally leaked by teams to manipulate the actions of others, so as always, take this with a grain of salt.
In his latest draft blog, Chad Ford writes that the Cavaliers would love to move up to #2:
The Bobcats will likely decide between Kentucky’s Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Kansas’ Thomas Robinson at No. 2. Bradley Beal, Andre Drummond and Harrison Barnes are all in the mix there, but it seems like Kidd-Gilchrist and Robinson are the two top guys on the board.
However, another option might be for the Bobcats to go ahead and trade the pick in an effort to get more assets. The No. 2 pick, whoever it is, isn’t going to turn around the franchise next season. What the Bobcats need is depth.
Two teams to look at are Cleveland and Portland. Both would love to get up to the No. 2 pick. The Cavs would love to get their hands on Kidd-Gilchrist or Beal. The Blazers are also high on Beal.
If the Cavs offered the No. 4 and No. 24 picks, would that be enough for the Bobcats to pull the trigger? If Robinson is their target, yes. If Kidd-Gilchrist is? He’s probably not on the board at No. 4.
The Blazers have the sixth and 11th picks. That’s a steep price to pay to move up four spots in the draft, but if they’re convinced they don’t love a player at No. 6, it might be worth it to them.
Should the Cavaliers not succeed in getting up to #2, and the Wizards being set on taking either MKG or Beal, Ford says the Cavs’ pick might be Barnes, but Jeremy Lamb is a real possibility as well:
The Cavaliers were really hoping to get either Kidd-Gilchrist or Beal out of this draft. Given our current mock, both players are off the board. We currently have the Cavs grabbing Harrison Barnes at No. 4. The Cavs actually were hoping that Barnes was going to be in the draft last year and sources say they would’ve grabbed him at No. 4. Do they still love him after a disappointing sophomore season? Are they willing to roll the dice on Drummond instead? I hear Jeremy Lamb isn’t out of the question here, either.
One final interesting note from Ford, and this one shows how Kyrie Irving is already changing the culture and perception of basketball in Cleveland:
NBA agents are becoming less concerned with how high their clients get drafted and much more concerned about fit and franchise stability. Two teams in particular may have a tough time getting in top talent prior to the draft. GMs see Cleveland, Washington, Portland and Golden State as preferable destinations at the top of the draft. They are scared to death of both Charlotte and Sacramento right now.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Bobcats and Kings struggle to get every player they want to workout into their gym.
A year ago, there’s no way Cleveland is viewed in the same light as Portland as preferable destinations. This just further demonstrates the impact Kyrie Irving is making in Cleveland. Agents would be extremely happy to have their clients drafted by the Cavaliers and able to pair up with a playmaking PG like Irving. It’s amazing the roller coaster ride this Cavaliers franchise has been on over the last decade.
Ford’s entire article is a nice read full of a lot of interesting tidbits about the lottery teams.
The bottom line in all of this for the Cavaliers is that the Bobcats are going to be the team who set the tone for this draft. As much as many, if not most1, pundits feel that MKG is the 2nd best pick in this draft, all that matters is what the Bobcats decide they want. They know Cleveland wants MKG, and they know they need assets, so a trade with Cleveland makes sense. But not if they intend to overplay their hand.
Cleveland isn’t going to overpay by too much for that #2 pick, not when they know they can take Barnes or Lamb at #4 and fill a severe need. Sure, neither Barnes nor Lamb have the potential that MKG does, but is that gap big enough to warrant giving up more than the #4 and #24 picks for? Not likely.
Expect many more twists, turns, rumors, and leaks between now and the draft, but at least for now in this initial phase, we have some idea of where Cleveland’s head is at. Or at least where they want everyone to think their head is.
- a lot of pundits do like Drummond as a prospect enough to make him the #2 player on their board [↩]
77 Comments
If we trade 4 and 24 to move up to 2, we better be getting more than an “energy” guy like Kidd-Gilchrist. 24 is way too valuable in a deep draft like this to give up.
My preference is to take the best available at 4, Beal/Barnes/or MKG, then try and package 24 and one of the 2nd round picks to move up to the mid first round to get Meyers Leonard.
Andrew, what makes MKG more exciting as a prospect than say a Richard Jefferson that can’t shoot, or Corey Maggette? I didn’t see him play much other than the tourney. He looked great on the floor. And obviously effort and aggressive offense translates pretty well. But aren’t we worried about his shooting ability? Is he better than Kawhi Leonard?
I’m already dreading having to watch this possible deal get picked to the last nit up until draft night. This deal isn’t going down until the Cavs are actually on the clock and the Bobcats see who they can get, but that’s not going to stop us from obsessing over anything remotely resembling a rumor.
This is the draft where Grants really going to have to earn a paycheck. Everyone in the top 8 in this draft has a pretty big upside, and at least one weakness that should make you pause and think about how very average he could be.
Beal, Lamb, and Sully have physical deficiencies they have to overcome, Barnes, Drummond, and Jones have mental blocks, and Robinson, and MKG have shooting mechanics that need fixed.
I said it before and I’ll say it again, if you think you can tell which one will definetly fix his problems you are lying to yourself. Like the article says about agents wanting players to go to teams with stability, this is the time for front offices to know what their player development stregnths are, and which players strength/weakness package will fit in the system that their team runs. If you are running half court sets with a lot of movement that require a lot of concentration you probably don’t want a guy that could check out frequently. If you have a point guard who needs the ball in his hands, whether to shoot or make a play for someone else you probably don’t want a wing player who needs 15 seconds of shot clock to make a play for himself.
Now if we can flip our 4 plus the Laker pick for #2 I’d do it in a heartbeat. Ramon Sessions for MKG? I guess so. I’d throw those two seconds in as well and use some of that free agent war chest to fill out a roster.
They should offer the #4 and one or both of the 2nd rounders for the #2 or the #4 and one of the 2 first rounds they have next year.
I really want to hold on to at least one of those early 2nd rounders. Take a flier on a young Euro and stash him overseas. This is a big draft, but a very good time for the Cavs to take a couple risks. And no thanks on the free agent market unless you can get a good deal on a younger player (i.e. not happening). The Cavs have to construct a roster that will be a legit contender in 3 years, not the best possible one they can put on the floor next year.
And since it’s the NBA, the trade wouldn’t get announced until about a half hour after the pick!
Not saying he will be like Dwayne Wade, but you could say the same thing about him… he can’t shoot very well but always seems to find a way to finish at the rim and he’s a great defender, which people expect MKG to be. Again, those are the only comparisons I’m making and I’m not assuming anything, but just wanted to throw that out there.
After hating Barnes all year I’m starting to come around if MKG and Beal are gone. All this negative pub will light a fire methinks. And having KI at the point will make it less necessary for him to create.
Will change my mind again next week of course.
I totally agree with this post, except that I want us to move back into the teens for Mo Harkless.
“Meyers Leonard.” I just threw up a little, no a lot, in my mouth…
Correct me if I’m wrong, but there’s like very little value to #24
If you stay with American-born college play, then yes. Go with the boom or bust approach on some Euro, maybe you’re the new Spurs, or you just get lucky.
I remember a VERY-GOOD Hornets team being led by Chris Paul (Franchise Player), David West (All Star, second banana) and Tyson Chandler (Defensive Guru, beneficiary of Paul’s alley oops). This team ultimately lost to an AWESOME Laker’s team in the Conference Finals.
The potential parallels to the Cavs would be the following Irving (Franchise guy), H Barnes–similar to D West in that he thrives off of mid range jump shots that are open because of playing with an all-world PG– and Thompson would be the defensive anchor/alley oop beneficiary. Obviously, Chandler/Thompson comparison is a stretch, but at the very least, Thompson possesses a similar skill set that a young Chandler had.
I realize this is all hypothetical but not COMPLETELY unattainable.
Here’s a hypothetical: if you could go back to last year’s draft, and everything from then till now would play out the same, meaning we would still have the #4 pick now, would you still take TT? Basically, my question is would you draft TT knowing you might have a shot at Thomas Robinson if he falls to 4? Just asking for funsies
anyone got a good highlight reel on harrison barnes? serious q. i get that he was the top rated high school prospect a couple years ago. but i haven’t seen him play at a ‘top 4’ level and i haven’t been able to find any clips.
till i see something, barnes is a ‘star by reputation’ and –off the top of my head– i can only think of one of those who is realizing his potential (kenyon martin of all people).
on our pick, i dont see a huge problem going after robinson if grant thinks he’s the BPA. i thought TT was just ok and showed surprisingly bad finishing touch — i wouldnt pass on a prospect because ‘TT has it locked up.’ robinson was a difference maker whenever he was on the floor.
Yup, if Wash picks Robinson, very little chance of a deal since we want Beal anyway. If Wash picks Beal, then we start looking to move T-Rob and some picks (LA’s this year and Miami/LA’s next year)/deal sweeteners (Gee, Boobie) to Bobcats for MKG.
We won’t know till draft day when we see how those first 3 picks shake out.
I think Beal is going to be the best player in this draft not named Anthony Davis. The cavs would help themselves out by having two guards that can stretch the floor for years to come. We would still need a playmaking big, but even with Beal and Kyrie, we will still probably be in the lottery next year, however, much improved.
I’m not sure what you mean by “value”? Certainly, good players can be had at #24. I’m no great evaluator of NBA players but just looking at the last few drafts but here are some players drafted at 24 or later that seem pretty good to me: Serge Ibaka, Mario Chalmers, George Hill, Tiago Splitter, Aaron Brooks, Monte Ellis, Taj Gibson and DeJuan Blair. Can we get a guy on that level? Well, probably not but given that these guys have been drafted there or later means you have a chance.
I also liked Darko Milic, and you see how well he developed once he got a shot…
2 of the Cavs better draft picks in the last decade have been Carlos Boozer (35th in 2002) and Daniel Gibson (42nd ion 2006). But yes, there is little value to #24, especially in the deepest draft in the past few years because some players stayed an extra year last year with the lockout overshadowing the draft (Sullinger, Barnes, Jones from Baylor, etc.)
Beal is also an “energy” guy and will be a great pick at 4. The Wizards are going to take Robinson unless Charlotte takes him. A couple people have already mentioned Harkless and he would be my target too to trade up for later in the draft. Beal and Harkless are both good defenders and can both get to the rim. Beal helps stretch the D and in time, Harkless hopefully can help with that, but that’s also why we have Gee. I would be pretty happy with a future 4 of Irving, Beal, Harkless, and Thompson. All high-energy guys and all 20 or younger.
I was thinking the same thing. If we would have taken Valanciunas at #4, who by all accounts is developing nicely, we could take Robinson at 4 this year if Beal and MKG are gone. That would be a great front court. Then try and target Moe Harkless at 24. Combine all that with the ROY and that sounds like a great nucleus to me.
noone knows anything about Jonas until he comes over next year. it’d be interesting to see, sure. but, just noting he is still an unknown.
Cavs main FA targets are Eric Gordon and Omer Asik.
Irving- Gordon- MKG- Thompson- Asik w/ Andy and Gee off the bench. Playoffs anyone??
the Wizards very well could take Robinson, which is why the trade scenario Ford mentions is weird. unless, of course, the Bobcats take MKG, then if T-Rob is there at #4 makes a trade with us. if he is gone, make the trade with Portland. it’s definitely possible.
“I hear Jeremy Lamb isn’t out of the question here, either.”
dang skippy.
I think Barnes does have the potential of MKG…one bad tournament. That’s all it was.
Gordon is restricted. Benson will match any offer we would find willing to give him.
You can’t give up on guys with such athleticism at such a young age (Thompson and Barnes). You can teach these guys how to finish, or use your brilliant young point guard to get them the ball in a position to be more aggressive, but it’s a lot harder to get someone NBA size/athleticism.
Might not get the opportunity since he won’t take over until late July or early August but i know what you’re saying and agree. NO has more Cap space too but just throwing out the possibility.
It’s definitely exciting seeing a franchise being built with a nucleus of young high potential guys through the draft who could hopefully excel together for at least the next decade.
Still wondering why we didn’t take this approach in 2003…….
I think the trade scenario is because the Cavs would like to be in control of who they pick and not sit and cross their fingers and hope one of their guys falls to them. They have more than enough ammo to make a deal and it might make sense for both Cleveland and Charlotte.
Said it before, but i wouldn’t mind going the other way and staying at 4 and taking Harrison Barnes and trading up from 24 and getting Dion Waiters– both fit the typical Byron Scott types for those positions but not sold on Waiters character though which is why i think they covet MKG and Beal so much.
What’s Lamb’s physical deficiency? He’s 6’5″ with a 6’11” wingspan and good athleticism. He’s just a little thin. You can get away with being thin at shooting guard, especially with his wingspan and quickness.
There is no way the Cavs sign Eric Gordon. It’s just not happening. Omer Asik, maybe, but still probably not.
ok, found one where barnes looks pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38qcoJipA2A
draftexpress page has one where he looks pretty average (scroll to bottom):
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Harrison-Barnes-5705/
so your guess is as good as mine. ive got fairly high confidence in chris grant to do the right thing with his picks.
wow, we have 4 more weeks of non-stop speculation until the actual draft. Then, it’s time for Browns camp.
See, this is why no one’s going to Tribe games.
I’m a “little” thin. Jeremy Lamb is so thin that French models gawk at him.
it depends on how high we need to trade up. what will we give to trade up and who will want to trade down?
if we think Waiters is going top 12, then I don’t think it’s possible. if he slips into the late teens, then it might be.
what better place to talk about the recent Browns OTAs and NBA draft lottery than in the Bleachers at Progressive Field though?
He’s 6’3″ and his skill set overlaps a button much with Kyrie’s. You want a bigger, athletic guy playing next to Kyrie…Lamb would be a better option really…
He definitely has some mental blocks of his own that one…
I’d agree. Late teens I see as the drop off. I’d rather sit at #4, then maybe package our #24 and both 2nd rounders or something to get back in the mid-late teens.
Grant has proven he’s not afraid to go after the guy he wants even if the media has him ranked a bit lower with the Tristan Thompson. lots of people were unhappy at the time bit it seems most have since developed more trust in Grant than just about any.other Cleveland.GM in recent memory. my opinion is pretty useless since I don’t follow NCAA basketball but as of now o Will trust what ever Grant does.
Well introduce him to some of Cleveland’s best Polish food and that’ll help fatten him up. “Mr. Lamb, meet Mr. Kielbasa. Get to know each other.”
i totally agree. that’s why we never gave up on JJ Hickson. I loved how well he and Kyrie played together last year. Hickson’s athletic ability is a difference-maker! He’ll be a hall-of-famer for sure.
I really like Barnes’ fit in the Princeton offense. The more i watch the NBA playoffs, the more i believe Barnes will be the better wing in the NBA over MKG. I just don’t see MKG hitting enough from the perimeter to be able to get to the rim, which he excels at doing. I know everyone praises MKG’s intangibles but Barnes is pretty similar.
Here’s what I don’t get. Let me start out by saying that I would love to have MKG. Good athlete, high motor, pit bull mentality, ect. What’s not to like? He gets a free pass for medicore numbers as a freshman because he was on a team with 4 first rounders. Well, so was Harrison Barnes. Barnes had better numbers than MKG both as a freshman and sophomore, and he did it in a much better basketball conference. Harrison Barnes biggest downfall is that he hasn’t lived up to the billing of the next LeBron James. To me he’s like Paul Pierce. Paul Pierce never averaged 20 in college because of Roy Williams, and so it went with Barnes. He has great size (6’8″) for a SF, is super long and athletic, and has a shot currently that MKG could only dream of having in the next 5 years. Besides, we already have a poor man’s MKG on the squad named Alonzo Gee. I’d rather not duplicate the skills at the SF position. Have Kyrie set up Barnes and move Gee to the bench as the energy sixth man, where he can play a majority of his minutes against backups instead of starters.
Finally, I’m not trading anything to move up two spots. This is the deepest draft in years. I want an Andrew Nicholson at #24, maybe a Mo Harkless, Tony Wroten, whoever. Heck, maybe we can package #24 and one of the second rounders to move up 4-6 spots and grab Terrance Ross for the SG. Seems to me people have been reading too many glowing scouting reports on MKG. I like him, but David Lighty put up better numbers and played really hard as well. The example may be extreme, but c’mon man. Lastly, I’d take Thomas Robinson at #4 before I moved up to #2. Tristan comes off the bench as a PF/C. Our first two bigs off the bench last year were Erden and Samuels. Nuff said.
Cuz that guy down south said he would leave if they didn’t win and everybody within the organization panicked.
Chad Forde just rep.orted that if the Cavs draft Lamb they will be bringing back Shawn Kemp as his personal dietician