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June 25, 2012Report: Former GM Danny Ferry accepts deal with Atlanta Hawks
June 25, 2012Would you or wouldn’t you — the simple question posed to many’a Cavalier fans throughout the course of the weekend.
With the NBA Draft rapidly approaching and the Wine and Gold looking to follow in the footsteps of their Oklahoma City build-it-through-the-draft brethren, acquiring lottery selections sits atop Chris Grant’s list of priorities. Rumors abound, be they trading up to acquire Anthony Davis, potentially jumping ahead of Washington to land Bradley Beal, or even moving down in a scenario wherein the Cavaliers draft sixth- and eleventh-overall rather than fourth. But no rumor has drive the sports talk circuit more than the one involving a fan favorite in long-time hustle stat extraordinaire Anderson Varejao, conceivably heading to Golden State along with the 24th-overall selection1 for the Warriors’ seventh-overall pick.
Allegedly, it was the Cavaliers who said ‘Thanks, but no thanks.’Â
Varejao has long been discussed as a potential trade piece, but not due to a bloated expiring contract or lack of production. Prior to the selection of Kyrie Irving one year ago, it was Varejao who was the most coveted player on the Cavaliers’ roster. It was also Varejao, unfortunately, who managed to get injured during two consecutive seasons, squashing any and all short-term trade value. The teams continued to call, but were asking for a bit of a discount. One that the Cavaliers’ brass has long been unwilling to accept given the leadership, hustle and determination that oozes from the Brazilian big man every time he takes the floor.
But in a world where there is a delicate balance between short-term learning and long-term success, there will also come a time when parting with Varejao is the best move in a basketball sense. Seven-footers demand a premium, skill sets notwithstanding. One who can average a double-double while defending the pick-and-roll with such tenacity will still be on NBA wish lists despite the fact that Varejao is going to turn the big three-zero this September.
So why would Chris Grant be the one to allegedly balk at the offer? Because he should, at least at this stage. Why should the Cavaliers pull the trigger on a deal when they are currently unsure of what options would be there at No. 7? Presently, the tiers of player quality favor Grant holding on to his chips until this Thursday where he could strike while the Draft iron is nine kinds of red.
Anthony Davis is a tier unto himself. Then comes the next wave: Michael Kidd- Gilchrist, Thomas Robinson, Bradley Beal, Harrison Barnes and Andre Drummond. At this stage, these five players could go in any order and no one would bat an eye. But once that seventh-overall pick is on the clock, the fun begins. One national draft pundit says that a player who is taken with No. 7 could easily go at No. 17 if the situation was different. Why would Grant want to trade to the very top of a tier if he would be taking similar quality to those just a handful of picks above his current spot at No. 24?
But in the event that Portland throws a curve ball and takes someone like Damian Lillard — who recently wowed during a private workout — at No. 6 in order to fend off Toronto, that Golden State pick becomes a bit more intriguing. The vast majority of Cavalier fans break out into hives and acquire the shakes upon hearing consideration for UConn’s Andre Drummond at No. 4. However, if — say — Michael Kidd-Gilchrist falls to the fourth-overall pick and Drummond is there at seven, moving Varejao might not be so bad. It’s at least more preferred than dealing a center then being left with two wings2 and then forcing Tristan Thompson into a center role for 36 minutes per evening.
Certainly, any trade of a player like Varejao for a relatively unknown or a project3 would not be applauded by the casual fans. It could also be a move that keeps the Cavaliers in the lottery for yet another off-season as the city of Cleveland saw first-hand that a defense without Varejao in the middle is considerably weaker than one with.
But come Thursday evening, if the Golden State Warriors are on the clock and one Chris Grant’s top four or five players happens to be available at No. 7, he may be hard-pressed to keep the red light on a deal which would undoubtedly have a better chance of improving the long-term prospects of this Cavaliers team. After all, who doesn’t like 11th-hour suspense?
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(AP Photo/Tony Dejak)
53 Comments
Nice post Scott. I think we’d still need more offense than a Drummond-Thompson-Samuels front court. Heck, we need more offense than a Varejao-Thompson-Samuels front court. That’s why I like the idea so much of getting Andrew Nicholson at No. 24. He’s a perfect complement to the talents around him.
I’d like this rumor more if we were talking about trading the 33 and/or 34 with Andy for the #7. Then we’d still have the option to flip the #4 and #24 to Portland. Imagine a scenario where we could take Lamb, Drummond and PJIII…
Agree. I know I just posted a contrarian view to what you’re pointing out, but taking the Cavs preference of MKG/Barnes and a guy like Nicholson would be another good haul.
Varejao is a bum ill take the 7th pick thanks
It’s wise to wait and see what happens if the #7 is coveted that much but I wouldn’t be against moving Varejao. It makes no sense to keep him if the direction the team is going is youth. The way Varejao plays this will probably be the last time you could take advantage of a high selling price. This is going to be intersting to say the least.
I definitely like the idea of holding the chips until we get to draft night and see whats there. There are some magic scenarios like moving up for Beal and Barnes falling to the 7, or MKG falling to 4 and Lamb at the 7 that we would need to be prepared for.
Interesting that Deng for the 7 is on the table too. Shows the respect that Andy is finally getting league wide, Deng is a heck of a player. As GS, would you rather have Deng or Andy?
I think ultimately a deal like this will happen on draft night. I am a member of the Andy fan club, but I think the value of the #7 pick in this draft is greater than his value right now. The injuries are what have sold me on a move like this.
I don’t think Nicholson’s game is going to translate in the NBA. He might be a rotational guy, but I think even that is a stretch.
To say Drummond’s floor is DeAndre Jordan is really optimistic.
When I haven’t seen Andy play for a while it’s always easier to forget his impact on everyone else on the floor, especially impressionable young guys. There were games last season when the other players, said: Andy willed us to win with his effort.
My question: if even average centers are at a premium, and Drummond is a huge question mark, who plays center for us, this year or in 3 years? Tristan is not a center. Other teams crave Andy for a reason, and it’s not just his hustle, it’s the paucity of talent at that position. No doubt his value will shrink as years pass, but a shrunken Andy may be the best by far we will see at center. That’s why other teams want him at age 30. I’d be ok if we already had a surer bet than Drummond. It could be a solid Mark West-type. But it can’t be total crapshoots or proven losers like Erden, Hollins, Samuels and that ilk. I think. Keep going back and forth on this.
i thought that as well….I was thinking the floor was Hasheem Thabeet
I’m with you. I still 100% believe the Cavaliers should keep Andy. Especially if Drummond is the alternative. No matter how hard I try, I can’t talk myself into Drummond. I just don’t like his game and don’t see a good fit for the system the Cavaliers are trying to run.
Really, Anthony Davis would have been perfect. Really a shame the Cavs didn’t win the lottery, haha.
8/8 In a third season is hardly a lofty expectation. Drummond, if given 27-29 minutes on this very Cavs team could easily average this based on Kyrie Irving alone.
It’s not really, though. DeAndre Jordan has zero offensive game, but is an excellent shot blocker and a good rebounder. Drummond has already proven he is both of those, so I think that’s a pretty accurate floor. The defensive abilities are already there. He just has to show he has the motor to compete and develop his offensive game.
The alternate view is that if something weird happens during the draft and a “Tier 2” player falls into that #7 spot, the price may go UP for us. Right now, we could trade Andy and the #24 because of the drop to Tier 3 at the #7 spot.
My only question mark with Andy right now is health. Can we move him, pick up a MKG and Lamb/Beal and Barnes draft? Then we stink for one more but have one of the best young cores in the league.
Answering questions like these is why Grant makes a lot more money than I do.
i’d do it Andy for #7 straight up. OR….I’d do it for next year’s first-rounder. you see, this isn’t the NFL, where this year’s picks are worth more. I believe that you should roll the dice with a perennial lottery team in the hopes you move up from #7.
Plus, it’s always a good idea to stink for a year so you can lock up a top lottery spot. That’s also why i advocate drafting the top Euro guy and letting him grow in Europe (see Rubio). By the time he is legit, you’ll have another top-5 pick to pair him with. It’s like what happened to the Spurs with Robinson, except the player doesn’t get hurt, he just doesn’t play for your squad for a year.
Yes, it is a good strategy.
No, no, no. At age 18 (which Drummond still is) Thabeet wasn’t good enough to play college ball, much less get drafted in the lottery. Age is incredibly important, especially when we’re looking at developing big men.
I’d take the deal now, and take Barnes and Waiters at 4 and 7. Then take two project big men in the 2nd, maybe Ezeli and Plumlee and move forward with that core.
Exactly my thought. If a player fell, no way GS trades it to us then….got to roll the dice and hope it ends up your way. Which means I like our decision to say no – rather keep #24, hang on to Andy, see how the season progresses and maybe deal him mid-season for an obvious lottery pick to a desperate team then.
Trading Varejao should only be done if the team can than showcase what fancy piece they got in return. An aging Varejao is still the team’s best defender and bigman who brings all the intangibles while under a team friendly contract. You don’t trade that away to maybe get better in the future. The only real knock on Varejao is his injury record, missing much of the least two seasons. Still, he’s a fan favorite and a reason to go to the games. He should finish his career in Cleveland.
What if they could get the 6,7 and 11 pick somehow in this draft.Portland trades up to get Drummond and we do the Golden State deal. If we could only throw in one 2nd rounder to portland to get that deal done we would still have one more 2nd rounder to get sullinger to. At 6 and 7 they could go Barnes and/or MKG, Lillard, Rivers, or Waiters. Then at 11 you go moe harkless. Then grab sullinger in 2nd. So we could get Barnes, Rivers, Moe Harkless, and Sullinger all in this draft. It obviously depends on if someone falls in love with drummond because he would be the only one people would trade up for. This gives us a roster to start building on.
I know I might be in the minority, but I say trade Andy now when his value is still high, IF Grant really wants a specific player at 7 and he doesn’t think he will continue to slip.
I love Andy as a player, but if any Cavs fan thinks he will make it through a season without getting hurt, you are kidding yourself. If we can get a SG and a SF between 2 + 7 that would compliment Kyrie, I wouldn’t hesitate to make the deal.
Imagine if we could end up with either of these combinations- we would solidify our wing players for the foreseeable future:
1. MKG and J. Lamb
2. Beal and Barnes
3. Beal/Barnes and Robinson/Drummand
This rumor, like the Deng rumor to GSW, suffers from that fact that Golden State is over the cap and has a dearth of contracts to trade. Add up Dorell Wright, Charles Jenkins and Jeremy Tyler and you’re still short of the matching requirement for Varejao. So who do you want to be pay about 10 million to each of the next 2 years, Richard Jefferson or Andris Biedrins?
I realize that a third team could enticed into swapping their bad contract for Golden State’s slightly worse one, but I think the lack of salary matching is the first sign that this is a classic “made up by a sports talker who can’t do math” rumor.
Even if it were possible, count me into the camp that thinks we need to maintain some veteran presence on the team. We don’t want to end up like the Wizards. There’s presumably a price at which trading Andy makes sense. Don’t think this is it.
I’d prefer to make the trade. Seems at this point if we took Drummond he would not hurt our chances of getting another good lottery pick next season, and would be able to contribute when the core of KI, Barnes(or MKG) and Thompson are ready to compete for real.
The knock on Varejao isn’t his current ability. It’s his likely ability when the Cavs will actually contend again. He’s already going to be 30 this season, with an injury history. When the Cavs actually garner enough talent to break 50 wins, how good of a player will Varejao actually be, if he is even under contract anymore? They need(ed) to sell high to get a piece that will be a part of the next Cavs contender – and at 7, why not take Waiters? At least he has decent percentages that project to the next level.
if it’s MKG+Jeremy Lamb though?
as much as i don’t like drummond at ‘4’, i agree with this and he would definitely be in the conversation at ‘7’
andy obviously. they’ve been searching for a defensive big man forever. they desperate signed RFA Jordan and then panic-signed Kwame Brown just last year.
i think nicholson goes in the 2nd round. he’s the classic pre-draft “talk-up” guy with a 2nd round pedigree.
just enjoy the Heat title and leave us alone 🙂
Good point. Plus you have Lee and Bogut (maybe even a good healthy Bogut), if you add Andy that is a pretty darn solid big rotation. He and Bogut can also split some of each others minutes (28-30 a piece) and save their bodies.
yeah, with Jerry West running things in the background, you also know they covet having the big man rotations like he had in LAL and setup in Memphis. it’s what he does.
healthy Bogut + healthy AV + david lee is very complementary in skillsets too.
My point is he could end up being a whole lot worse than DeAndre Jordan. If he ends up being DeAndre Jordan, that would be ok, because there’s a lot that could happen between here and there that could prevent that from coming to fruition.
Remember when Greg Oden was the next Bill Russell? All I’m saying is don’t count your chickens before they are even drafted
At 7 he’s definitely in the conversation. I’d rather have a 7 footer with upside and questions about desire than a 3rd tier wing player who isn’t an upgrade from Alonzo Gee
I’ve been talking about this on twitter all morning. If would trade AV and 24 for 7 if the Cavs could get MKG at 4 and Lamb at 7. Otherwise, I don’t trade Andy.
and who is your center, this year, next and in 2014 as Kyrie approaches the end of his rookie contract, and do you believe that team can make a serious playoff run? If I was assured they could pick up a steady, average big body – don’t say Samardo, who could just as likely to have a Mel Turpin attitude – I might take that risk.
Sure, anyone could have blown out his knee before he played a game and been worth nothing. I think it’s legitimate to throw out the extremes. What if we called it a 90% interval instead of best and worst case? Because best case really isn’t Bynum for Drummond, because, hey, maybe he can be Bill Russell himself. It’s not completely impossible.
Nobody. But that’s ok. Selling Andy for Lamb means one more year of stinkin’ (think OKC 4 years ago), and then one more draft (with hopefully 3 picks) to get that center for the future.
Center this year very well could be a rotation of Tristan and Samardo. It doesn’t really matter. That team would not only not be a playoff contender, but they would likely be in the top 5 of the lottery again. And that’s fine. This is a process. We’re still 3 years away from contending. So I’m not concerned about center right now. I just want as many talented young players as I can get.
BOSTON CELTICS CAN GET HIM
HE 100% FITS THERE
i trade andy to where he will fit and happy boston celtics no doubt beside doc rivers? hell yeah!
andy is 50-50 if boston gets him got injured..boston loose… why take those unknown names…i’d take a guy for varejao with a playoffs experienced
like BASS
and retire without a ring
andy is injury prone so… i dont if a team will trade good players for him..then he gets injured with his new team..i’d say its a 50-50
andy in playing in a loosing team… why trade him again to a loosing team also…
yup andy is 50-50… so if example okc or boston example brandon bass? i’ll take it..not injury prone and a good player with a playoffs experienced..don’t say it’s a trashed player..remember andy is injury proned….then i’d rather trade bass to kevin searaphine something like that