June 17, 2013

Talent Evaluation vs Talent Development (Or Chicken vs Egg?)

Here in Cleveland we’re well aware of the lists. That would be lists of draft picks that never panned out, or lists of players selected later that went on to have productive careers. Truth be told, every city and every franchise has those lists. If drafting the right players was easy, we’d all be general managers.

It’s easy to blame a GM or team president for lousy talent evaluation. Sometimes though, you have to wonder if those in charge of developing that talent didn’t drop the ball. (I know that the athletes have to have a desire to work and get better on their own. I lump that in with evaluating talent, whether or not a player has the right ‘intangibles’.)

I believe we’ve seen enough failure on both fronts recently to last a few sports’ lifetimes.

I bring this up not because I want to bash Butch Davis, Danny Ferry, Eric Wedge or any of the current coaches or GMs. I bring it up in response to what’s been taking place over the past few weeks in Cleveland sports.

I’ll start with the Cavaliers, who have stated over and over again that during this rebuild they are going to keep their options open, and stockpiles assets. That approach meant (supposedly) backing away from a three way trade which would have sent Andrew Bynum to Cleveland. This is a move I have no problem with, as Bynum probably wasn’t going to sign an extension guaranteeing the Cavaliers would have him longer than a season or two.  They put in a bid for Luis Scola, only to be outbid by the Suns. This kind of move would have allowed the Cavs to add a quality piece that could have been moved later. More flexibility.

The bottom line for the Cavaliers is that the players they have already drafted are going to have to become more than just adequate pros. That means developing the talent. Tristan Thompson, Dion waiters and Tyler Zeller are key ingredients to the Cavaliers contending in 2 or 3 years.

But there is more for the Cavs. They have at least 2 first round picks, and possibly a third this year if the Kings make the playoffs. They could certainly add another 1st rounder if Anderson Varejao puts off his yearly injury until after the trade deadline. The future has many possibilities, but only if they are able to develop the talent that the front office sees in the young players added.

Then there are the Browns. They are in a similar situation as the Cavs in that everyone knows they are in rebuild mode. There is a slight difference however. Mike Holmgren has put his coaching staff in a little bit of a jam. He won’t say anyone is on a hot seat, but he will say that the team should make ‘a significant leap forward in terms of wins’.

They added five players on offense by my count that they are expecting to be significant upgrades (Richardson, Weeden, Schwartz, Benjamin, and Gordon). The problem is that they are all rookies. Will they be better at their respective positions than the players who occupied those spots last season? Probably. Certainly a couple of them will be. I wonder how many coaches would be truly excited about coaching a 5 win team with rookies at QB, RB and 2 WR spots? Add in the fact that the Browns made the bold move of selecting Gordon, which to me is sending a message ‘We’ve got the players, now go win’.

Of course they’ve done everything through the draft. No significant free agents who have already developed their talent and proved themselves.

The Indians are in the opposite position. The window for winning is supposed to be closing. They have mortgaged the future of the rotation with the Ubaldo deal. They don’t have much left in the upper levels to make deals with.

The Indians (and maybe it’s just baseball in general) are such an enigma with their talent development. They have guys like Kipnis and Cabrera who seem to thrive under Acta, but then guys like Laporta and to a lesser extent Santana aren’t living up to expectations.

Of all the Cleveland teams, it would seem the Indians should have the biggest sense of urgency. It may just be the Browns’ coaching staff that feels the urgency most this year, and the Cavaliers’ front office being the most aggressive.

So which front office do you trust the most in making talent evaluations?

Which coaching staff do you trust most to develop that talent?

  • Foghorn Leghorn

    Front Office Trust:
    Cavs
    Browns
    Indians

    Coaching Staff to develop talent:
    Indians
    Cavs
    Browns

    I dont think any of our teams are very strong at either of these things though.

  • nj0

    I trust the Indians way more than the Browns. Too early to judge the Cavs front office, imo, though they have been good thus far.

    Any discussion of the Indians front office requires a mention of the huge inequity that exists in the ML system. The fact that they have had some measure of success over the last ten years while constantly running one of the lowest payrolls in the sport is a testament to how effective they’ve been. They’re fighting with one arm tied behind their back.

    Until the Browns show me something, I have to put them as the worst. They’re operating in what I think is the fairest system and they haven’t achieved anything. There have been signs of improvement, but until those translate into on-field results, I don’t see how they can be anything but at the bottom in both acquisition and development.

  • mgbode

    Cavs – going to be ridiculously young this year. one of main 5man sets could easily be: 2 rookies(waiters/zeller), 2 soph’s(irving/tt), 1 4th year (gee)

    Browns – going to be ridiculously young this year (especially on offense). rookies at QB/RB/WR -2/FB/RT, 2nd year potential starters: WR/TE/RG/FB

    that’s 9 positions there (8 on field at time – WR3 or TE or FB). just leaving JoeT, Mack and Pinkston (3rd year himself) as the elders of the group in terms of experience.

  • mgbode

    that leaves the Indians as the old men team of the group. and it’s not like they are without youth (kipnis, chisenhall, santana, asdrubal, etc.)

  • paulbip

    What 5 win team?

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    Great topic I think you hit a nerve when it comes to one of the problems with the sports teams here. As far as which FO I trust the most this isn’t easy because to one degree or another I don’t trust any of them but if I had to rank them I’d say: Browns, Cavaliers and Indians. As much as it pains me there is a significant improvement of talent on the football team. I question the lack of activity in FA but the drafting is exponentially better. The Cavaliers haven’t done enough and while Irving was a homerun other then Zeller I haven’t seen alot. Grant needed a Bynum kind of deal IMO. Time will tell. The Indians easily are the worst FO of the three. The decisions they have made in drafting and in free agency haven’t produced much if anything. It’s why this team flounders around .500 couple that with the ownership and I can see why they are last in attendance.

    As far as the coaching goes I’ll shock here and go Indians, Cavaliers and Browns. As bad as the drafting and personnel decisions have been for the Indians I think the coaching, particularly in the minor leagues, has been pretty solid. Not great but certainly not horrible. Acta has a mediocre talent team at .500 and still alive in the playoff race. He’s a magician. I also think SA Jr and Sarbaugh have bright futures as coaches. They can only develop talent they are given however and the drafting has been terrible. I like Byron Scott for the Cavaliers but like I said above they are so young and in the infancy of rebuilding that I find it difficult to assess 100%. After this season it should be clearer. Last is the Browns. The FO has added a significant amount of talent and I’m skeptical of the coaching ability to enhance upon it. I think the saving grace will be that players like TRich and Weeden have maturity and experienced winning in college. They don’t have to rely on the first taste coming in their professional careers.

    I wish we could blend these take the Browns drafting, the Indians assistants and the head coaching of the Cavliers and put it into one franchise.

  • Wow

    They have to develop at the right time. The Indians window is closing, they maybe have 2 more years before these guys are up for free agency. The problem is some are developing and some aren’t. The Browns window is similar, but due to parity in the NFL they have a better chance at success IF coached and developed properly. The Cavs sadly are in a league where super-teams thrive, the good thing is that the East is weakening and besides Miami no real power will contend.

  • 5KMD

    Agree, but the Browns are playing in the NFL version of the American League East. You could say over the last decade that the Patriots, Colts, Ravens, and steelers were the equivalent of the yankees, red sox, Angels, and Rangers (??).
    I think if the Browns were in the AFC west or the NFC west they would have been in contention several times in the last decade (similar to the Tribe being in the lowly AL central).
    Basically my point is that if the Indians finish around .500 they may win the division. If the Browns finsih .500 they are third or fourth in their own division. Tough sledding.