June 19, 2013

While We’re Waiting… Weeden Leading the Offense, Cavalier Expectations and Trading for Harden

August 22, 2012 by 21 Comments

While We’re Waiting serves as the early morning gathering of WFNY-esque information for your viewing pleasure. Have something you think we should see? Send it to our tips email at tips@waitingfornextyear.com.

Quickly becoming one of my favorite writers- “Last season, Oklahoma State’s offense dominated nearly every defense on its schedule. Brandon Weeden & Co. averaged more than 48 points and 549 yards per game and finished third in the nation in yards per play. The Cowboys finished 12-1 — their best finish in school history — and closed the season with a shoot-out win over an Andrew Luck–led Stanford team in the Fiesta Bowl. The marquee players on offense were future first-round picks — Weeden would go to the Browns and receiver Justin Blackmon to the Jaguars — and each put up video-game-type numbers. Even with that duo, the Cowboys weren’t merely an air-it-out team. They averaged more than 160 rushing yards per game, and in last fall’s Bedlam game against Oklahoma, the Cowboys ran for 278 yards and four touchdowns en route to crushing their rivals, 44-10. At times, it seemed Oklahoma State could merely decide, at their whim, whether or not they would throw or run, regardless of the defense’s response.” [Brown/Grantland]

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“In summary, ESPN is suggesting, generally, that (Kyrie Irving in his 2nd season + Tristan Thompson in his 2nd season) + (Dion Waiters + Tyler Zeller) – (Antawn Jamison + Anthony Parker) + (CJ Miles) – (Maybe Ramon Sessions) = 7 more wins. A statement I can’t really argue with too much. I’m not going to make my win total prediction until the end of training camp, but right now I’d have to admit this sounds pretty fair.

I hope the Cavaliers are a team that competes for a playoff spot this season. I think a 10th place finish would indicate the fact that they did that. In the very least, they would be in the race for a good portion of the year, which I think is important. It also suggests that it’s not the craziest thing ever to think the Cavaliers could end up with the 8th seed. Seven more wins (to match the Hawks) than was expected – certainly not the unthinkable leap of Charlotte or Orlando getting in. But looking at the eight projected playoff teams on this list, as well as the Bucks who aren’t, playoff basketball in Cleveland will be a challenge.” [Bowers/Stepien Rules]

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“As for Harden, Houston could get far enough under the cap to offer several types of packages — one built around Kevin Martin’s expiring deal and a couple of picks, including Toronto’s likely lottery pick; or another built around those same picks, plus some combination of young wing players (Jeremy Lamb, Chandler Parsons, etc). (Note: Any deal involving Martin would require the Thunder to send out about $2.5 million in salary on top of Harden). Milwaukee could offer picks, Mike Dunleavy Jr. and an intriguing young player like Tobias Harris or Doron Lamb. The Cavs, also set to be pretty far under the cap, could come in with offers centering around picks and either Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters or Anderson Varejao. The Hawks could offer Lou Williams, on an affordable three-year deal, plus multiple first-round picks. The Bobcats and Wizards could build offers around future picks and recent lottery selections; Charlotte has one net extra first-rounder thanks to deals with Portland (Gerald Wallace) and Detroit (Corey Maggette/Ben Gordon). The Thunder also could construct three- and four-team scenarios in which they get a pick from one place and the on-court talent from another — scenarios in which some trade exceptions could come into play.” [Lowe/Point Forward]

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“Joe Thomas of the Cleveland Browns, although unheralded, is generally considered amongst NFL coaches as the best Left Tackle in the NFL. He stands 6’6, 312 lbs and rarely gives up sacks. He’s a strong run blocker and is a hard-nosed player.

When the Minnesota Vikings made Matt Kalil the 4th overall pick of the 2012 draft, they were looking for someone of the same stature as Joe Thomas. Kalil is listed at 6’7, 308 lbs. The mindset behind having a Tackle that is 6’5 or taller is that they can use their arm length as an advantage and get their arms extended when they engage a pass rusher. If the pass protector can get his hands on the pass rusher, he’s got a great chance of winning the battle. However, based on recent production, NFL coaches and personnel executives may need to “think smaller” in their approach to evaluating Left Tackles.” [McCarty/National Football Post]

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Finally, the tweet of the night-

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  • mgbode

    is it just me or is there a comment eating gremlin the past couple of days?

  • mgbode

    also, Dion Waiters + Lottery pick for James Harden (and his soon near-max level deal) would not be a good idea for the Cavs IMO.

  • http://twitter.com/bbo13 B-bo

    It’s not just you. And it’s the worst Gremlins sequel imaginable.

  • JK

    Agree. That price for Harden is way too steep.

  • boomhauertjs

    The Finals proved that Harden is overrated. He’s not a max player and the team that gives him that contract will regret it. Please stay away Cavs, I don’t want Larry Hughes Part II (without the injuries).

  • mgbode

    worse than “the new batch”?

  • mgbode

    ?? terrible example. while it will be interesting to see if Harden can maintain the elite levels he hit last year, he was still a TS% over 60% and a very good 3pt shooter in that.

    we got Hughes at age27 when he had shown a propensity in the past to be a high-volume scorer (i.e. non-efficient). he never had the FG%, 3pt% or FT% that Mr. Harden possesses at age22. now, he was a better defender who had a knack for steals.

    again, I don’t want to be paying Harden near-max money and giving up 2 lottery picks (Waiters + ’13 choice) to do it. but, Harden is a good (not elite) player.

  • John

    IF Cavs trade for Harden, it will probably be closer to the deadline for Varejao. Think its dependent on how Zeller looks. Waiters played is college career as 6th man and trading for Harden would give them the ability to use him as such.

  • Jay

    I see no reason that the Thunder would want Waiters. But what about Wild Thing? He’s supposedly been on the trading block for a while. He’s a huge asset that we could trade. If Zeller is solid at all, we could trade Varejao plus, say, our two Miami first rounders (’13 and ’15?) for Harden. We get a great 6th man off the bench (he’s used to coming off the bench behind Sefolosha, so I doubt he’d mind coming off after Waiters.)

    Meanwhile, Thunder pick up a great 6th man to come off the bench behind either Ibaka or Perkins, as well as a couple of draft picks (which, IMO, would just be trade-bait for us anyway,) and they maintain the cap-space savings they want.

    Obviously, this whole scenario would be contingent on Varejao being healthy at the deadline.

    As for Harden’s fall in the Finals? Everyone goes through slumps, his was just at a bad time. I wouldn’t rule 1 series as the defining moment. I hate to say it, but look at Lebron. He had several horrible performances in playoffs at all levels, even the finals. He finally willed himself to perform well when it was on the line, and he was unstoppable. I’m not saying Harden is Lebron…just saying 1 series should not define Harden.

  • http://twitter.com/bbo13 B-bo

    Come on now, Hulk Hogan was in “the new batch”.

  • mgbode

    i honestly did not remember that. and am both impressed and sad that someone would :)

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    Yes and many of my superior comments were lost. I’m very upset and call for an immediate investigation especially if it effected my comment total! ;p

  • The_Real_Shamrock

    I can’t believe I’m going to type this but I’m not completely on the Harden bandwagon myself at least not for the Cavaliers. It’ll be interesting to see if OKC moves him and if so to which team.

  • BrownsFanSF

    Am I the only one who thinks a package built around AV for Harden may make too much sense for both teams??

  • mgbode

    who is the 3rd scorer for OKC if they make that deal? it would kill their championship hopes this season.

    and, it pushes up our “luxury threshold” timeline. it makes us better quicker, yes, but Harden is going to be overpaid IMO and once the Irving and TT extensions kick in, we’ll be up against the line with Waiters and Zeller to follow (assuming the guys pan out, which is what we hope).

    I wouldn’t be upset with the move, but it wouldn’t be my first choice.

  • BrownsFanSF

    Harden averaged an efficient 16, Andy can give you back at least 10 of those. OKC was still in a lot of those final games, even with Harden struggling tremendously. I’d say lack for production out of their bigs (especially against Miami’s small ball) is what killed them there.

    You could roll out Perk for big minutes against Dwight, pick up decent scorer off the bench (doesn’t have to be 6th man of the year) and then use Ibaka and Andy’s athleticism against small ball teams. I certainly don’t think it kills their championship hopes.

    I agree it’s not as ideal from our side, but where else would we get value for Andy? Only a contender is going to want him, and we’ll want youth or a high draft pick.

  • mgbode

    i don’t think they beat the Lakers w/o some great 3pt shooting. so, unless they get that back in said trade, I do think it would kill their championship hopes this year.

    yeah, they still have talent and a punchers chance, but Durant cannot be their only above average 3pt shooter.

    ———————–

    as far as getting value for Andy, it is going to be tough. perhaps as part of a larger deal (Houston would be a candidate to facillitate) or just grabbing a lottery pick for him (if a team thinks they are ready to make a leap but need a guy like Andy to do it – perhaps Portland?).

  • http://twitter.com/bbo13 B-bo

    I assure you, the sense of personal shame for being able to remember that is strong.

  • BrownsFanSF

    Good point about the Lakers D. While Westbrook is going to make Nash look like a turn-style, that second line of D can really bother him. Plus Mike Brown has put together some pretty solid defenses despite a sub-par guy on the perimeter (sorry Mo). I see your point that they need Harden to stretch that defense out, and Kobe can only guard one of them. OKC isn’t winning a grinder against Gasol and Howard.
    ——–
    I think the value for Andy is going to be the biggest barrier to moving him. He’s such an important piece and a really fine basketball player. We can’t move our second best player for pennies on the dollar (your only allowed to do that with your best player when your trading with teams from LA)

  • http://twitter.com/RickWFNY rick grayshock

    I don’t know what’s going on with the comments either, but it is causing me grief because of the t-shirt contest from yesterday.

  • mgbode

    you guys give so much stuff away that randomly picking one of the apparently random comments that didn’t get “eaten” seems fair.

    as far as tracking down what happened, you likely already saw it, but it had something to do with comments erroneously being flagged as inappropriate (those were the messages being shown initially and then the comments disappeared).