WFNY Podcast – 2012-10-24 – Defining Holmgren’s legacy
October 24, 2012The Baffling Buckeyes
October 24, 2012Next Tuesday, the Cavaliers tip off against the Washington Wizards in the season opener. A few pesky details have to be decided between now and then. Things like what five players will be on the floor at that tip, and who will still be on the roster.
Coach Scott juggled the line-up for the team’s final preseason game against the Pacers on Tuesday night. “We told the guys at the beginning of camp two spots were pretty much nailed down- Kyrie and Andy. That hasn’t changed.”
Last night’s line-up including Irving and Varejao with Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee and rookie Tyler Zeller starting at center. Scott indicated that had Daniel Gibson not developed concussion symptoms from an errant elbow in practice the other day, he very well could have started instead of Waiters.
What the coach is searching for, is a line-up that works together. One that plays defense as a unit and can run the offense effectively.
Case in point- against the Pacers on Tuesday, Tyler Zeller stepped up his game. He played aggressive and smart basketball.
“I thought (Zeller) played well,” Scott said. “The one thing he did was battled. You know, he went against a guy who’s an All-Star. (Hibbert) I think he played great basketball tonight.”
Zeller finished with 13 points, seven rebounds, two assists and a big time block against David West. But while Zeller had an outstanding game against an All-Star center, Anderson Varejao seemed to struggle to find his way again as a power forward. Through three quarters Varejao had zero points and three rebounds. Not his usual ‘Andy’ effort. He finished the game with five fouls and seven rebounds with his zero points.
So there lies the rub: Tyler played very well as a starting center, but Varejao had an off game. The whole preseason has been filled with these kinds of pairings. What is coach Scott to do?
Well for starters, the team will continue to practice, and practice hard for the next week. They are nowhere near where they want to be. Truth is, it may take several weeks to figure out what the best line-up is.
Tristan Thompson had a terrible game both offensively and defensively. Alonzo Gee played pretty well. Dion Waiters had a few moments offensively that were really good, especially a couple of two man breaks with Gee. But he didn’t play very good defense. The team as a whole struggled in that department- which you figure a young team will do against a veteran squad like the Pacers.
“There were times when we had four guys do exactly as they are supposed to do, and one guy breaks down. It costs us a basket.”
The team has a week to tighten up before things count.
—-
-For those wondering who the back-up point guard might be, Donald Sloan was the only other PG to play on Tuesday. But he didn’t exactly burn up the court.
-Several players got the DNP-CD who you think would be fighting for a roster spot. I think that shows you how concerned Coach Scott is about finding his first two rotations as opposed to figuring out the last two spots on the roster.
-Byron Scott said many things will determine his starting five. The best five players may not be in that starting group, if that makes the team as a whole better.
65 Comments
Pretty excited for this season. Going to take their lumps but excited to see this group grow. We know who the core group is as opposed to last year.
the last rosters spots I would have to think are determined more in practice than in games anyway.
NBA starting? NFL half over? almost November already? where did the year go?
I think Varejao’s game just goes to show you that he really isn’t a PF in the NBA anymore. He’s 100% a “5”, whether you want to call that guy a center or forward or whatever.
Looking forward to Tuesday night! It’s one of the few Cavs games I’ll get to watch on FiOS here in good ole’ Richmond, VA, so I’m pumped! Will have to watch almost all of the rest using NBA.com.
I think that’s all you can ask for but it’s going to be a bumpy ride IMO hopefully people don’t expect a ton out of Waiters early. If a core can develop while taking their lumps between the next draft and hopefully free agency this team can become relevant again. I’m forecasting 30-35 wins.
Seriously! Feels like we just got done talking about the draft
if you don’t mind discussing, have you used the mobile app before?
I am trying to figure out whether to just buy the broadband ($119 for 5teams), the mobile ($50 for all teams) or both ($179 and it includes both of those + League Pass on DISH).
I had always gone the 5team route in the past and the end of October was a ton of fun figuring out which teams to select. I get the first week of LP free from DISH, so I’d wait until that week was up and make my picks. For instance, last year I had Cavs, Grizz, Nuggets, Pacers, and Blazers. I only really regretted the Blazers as they imploded as the season went along (wish I went with my gut that said 76ers early).
Just interested in what others have done with it now that it’s coming up again.
and we are starting that talk up again already 🙂
The fact that Zeller is doing well at the 5, and Varejao struggles at the 4, couldn’t this be the writing on the wall for Andy has the trade deadline approaches? If Zeller proves his quality pre-season play was no fluke, then Andy becomes a huge trade asset, does he not?
I would think Varejao’s tradability is something that should be entertained regardless same with Gibson if he has any.
talk of trading Gibson and Varejao is as common to Cavs threads as people complaining about the Indians payroll in those threads.
Dear Coach Scott:
Please make this the year of the Byron Bounce. Nausea induced me to stop watching the Indians in late July. A different sort of illness puts me in the fetal position every Sunday around 3:55 p.m. EST; I just can’t stop watching that one, putrid year after year, and it’s a problem.
Have an excellent week of practice, scare them, encourage them, mix ‘n match them, whatever works, please just put some moderately entertaining diversion up there for me. Because things are real dark and this is supposed to be fun. We have three teams but I’m dying the death of a thousand cuts here.
We’re talking about Gibson starting now? We went from not picking up his option to him being part of the 5.
I haven’t used the mobile app… regrettably I am still stuck in 2005 with a phone that isn’t a smart phone. The wife and I have iPhones coming in mid-November, but until then I am in the dark on apps. I’d be afraid of what the mobile app would do to my data usage though. I plan on renewing the 5-team broadband. Who would you go with for your 5 this year if you did that? I am thinking I might go with the Cavs, Hornets, Clippers, Rockets, and Nets. I really don’t have much of a rhyme or reason to my madness though.
It’s pretty disheartening that despite the fact that we had three of the top 8 picks in the last two drafts, we’re not going anywhere. Not even to .500.
The season hasn’t even started yet, and we’re out of it. There’s no hope. Something’s wrong with something.
35 Wins would be a step in the right direction. I agree you cant expect too much from these 1st and 2nd year players. If they all stay relatively healthy and learn to play together this year could be a stepping stone to better days.
Im trying not to think about the draft with the Browns just yet. Old me would be talking about the draft after getting beat last week. This year I am more looking to who is available to coach because they have something to work with. They just need a leader to take the next step.
i’m the same way, wife & I got our first smart-phones in september (gs-iii) and I work on designing the processors that go in them. we went t-mobile though, so unlimited data (just switches from 4G to 3G when you hit your “ceiling”)
the one thing I would guard against is a team that will get alot of run on NBATV and the TNT, ESPN national broadcasts. Really, the Nuggets last year was sort of wasteful because they got so many late games on those stations, I could have followed them anyway.
of the ones you picked, I’d stay away from the Clippers for that reason (they have alot of national games – unless you just want to be able to dial up CP3 to Griffin whenever you want).
The teams I would consider personally (though want to see some of them play first):
Cavs – obvious
Rockets – love this pick you had too. lots of young talent that will struggle and look dis-jointed, but should be a fun team to watch.
Pacers – one of my favorite teams to watch and they don’t get nat’l games unless they happen to play Miami, etc. on a TV night. and this for what likely is the East #2 seed.
76ers – Bynum added to that crew makes them intriguing. I’d want to see what they are going to do with it before committing though.
Raptors – don’t sleep on them. they are really intriguing just with the upgrade of Lowry from Calderon (now backup PG) and DeRozan will be pushed by T.Ross.
Warriors – depends on how healthy Bogut can be. if he can protect the paint, then they’ll still be a fun team to watch with all their shooters. Jack+Curry on the floor might be their best backcourt combination as well (Klay is just terrible and defense and they need a distributor which is not Curry).
Kings – arena issues aside, any team that pairs Cousins+T-Rob should be formidable underneath. No more pretending Tyreke is a PG. Decent depth. If they had a real NBA PG, then I’d feel more confident about this pick (and cheering for the Kings is cheering for a Cavs #1 pick!!!)
Staying away:
Bobcats – will be improved and some good components, but it’s a year early to actually pick them. one or two injuries and they’ll be terrible and a waste February onwards.
Hawks – I feel like they are not good. I know Horford makes up for a bunch, but I just don’t feel them. Fringe East playoff team I guess, but I could see them freefall too.
Twolves – no Love, no Rubio early on. Disjointed start for a team that was barely .500 last year with both of them? no thanks.
Magic – haha. just seeing if you were paying attention. man, their GM should be fired for that Dwight trade as there were better out there that could have grabbed them talent and/or got them out of contracts. Well, maybe they wanted to do everything they could to go after Noel in 2013.
i watch college football more for the players that will be entering the draft than for the games themselves. so, if there’s college football on, then it’s draft-season for me 🙂
I have to rely on people like you and the talking heads at the enemy station for information like that. You guys give me the names then im all over it.
Good point on the Clippers, I do remember them being on TV a ton last year and negating any benefit to having them as one of my five. I probably watched the Jazz the most out of all my picks… wouldn’t mind using them again.
I think that I’m actually going to go with the TV package for $179. It’s pricey and my wife might kill me for it, but at the same time she is playing fantasy basketball with me and some other friends this year and NBA basketball is her favorite sport to watch… could be a relatively easy sell.
I agree with most of those assessments, but I can’t watch the Raptors because I have grown to hate Valenciunas due to the way so many Cavs fans have already deemed him an NBA success without playing in the NBA. I hope Bogut can stay healthy because he fits such a huge need for them, especially since they shipped out Udoh. I’ll always have a soft spot for Steph Curry because his dad is one of my all-time favorites and a Virginia Tech legend, and I like his game if properly used (ideally, you’d pair him with a big PG who can guard 2s and have them switch on defense). I’d love to see him paired with an Andre Miller or Chauncey Billups.
It took Durant until his 3rd season (to make the playoffs, and they were a 50-win, 8th seed that was bounced in the first round.
In those three years they drafted:
2007: Kevin Durant (1)
2008: Russel Westbrook (4)
2008: Serge Ibaka (24)
2009: James Harden (3)
This is how the Cavs have drafted (the picks are similar):
2011: Kyrie Irving (1)
2011: Tristan Thompson (4)
2012: Dion Waiters (4)
2012: Tyler Zeller (17)
However, the Thunder’s core had 4 years of experience the first time they made it to the playoffs. (Durant-2, Westbrook-1, Ibaka-1). By comparison, the Cavs only have 2 years of experience in their core right now. (Iriving-1, Thompson-1).
I think you are asking a bit much.
So you’re saying, Wait ’til next year. Okay, I know how to do that.
LOL, essentially. Although in this case, I believe it to be wholly reasonable as opposed to wholly inevitable.
fair enough. if you happen to watch a LSU game:
LSU DE Montgomery top10 or possibly LSU DE Mingo late 1st.
or LSU CB/S Eric Reid for FS in the 2nd.
Can we get all 3? That’d be swell 🙂
Jazz are a solid pick though I think they’ll fall off from last season (Mo Williams and Gordon Hayward as a starting backcourt? with Al/Millsap your rim protectors?). They definitely have a solid 4man rotation in the frontcourt though.
understandable on the Raptors, though I think Jonas will struggle this year regardless of if he is a bust or not long-term.
great idea on how to pair Curry though the guys you mentioned you mean the 2005 versions, right? 🙂
I’m going to pitch the TV package as my “big” XMAS present. I think it’ll work to get the TV package in w/ the mobile/broadband included. It’d be nice too since we have the Hopper w/ DISH and I’d be able to DVR most of the games I want for the main TV.
and it would be funny if that move was to take Perkins off the Thunder’s hands so they can avoid the luxury tax
In my opinion the “Byron Bounce” will come next year…not this one. Normally he gets it done after 2, but the first post-Lebron season was so atrocious that it can’t even be counted in the rebuilding process.
I do think we have to take the results of one preseason game with a bit of a grain of salt though.
ok, so Cavs are on the clock. If they don’t start contending along the Thunder timeline I shall ask the blog generals to change the name to waitingfornextlife.
Ha, was thinking the exact same thing about pitching as my big Christmas present… except I already ordered it. Shhhh, she’ll never know.
As for the PGs to pair with Curry, yes would love to pair him with the 2005 versions… was just thinking quickly of big PGs who are more available right now. Would be a double benefit for those guys as they wouldn’t be exposed by fast PGs on defense.
Not by me never be confused I am not a Gibson supporter.
We could go from drafing all these Baylor guys to drafting LSU guys and I would be ok with that. I say that as kind of a joke but Baylor has produced talent recently. Gordon, Taylor, Wright, some guy named Bob Griffin the 3rd. Im with you on drafting from LSU for sure.
And they are both subjects worth discussing, despite your apparent distaste for both…
If they aren’t contending somewhere along that timeline +/- a year, it means they missed BIG on one of the draft picks. And that’s no good.
I don’t know about Perk anymore health has really hindered him but he’d bring a presence for a young Cavaliers squad certainly.
Agree. Realistically I want the team to avoid extended stretches where they stop playing hard as happened each of the past two years. He stopped that sort of nonsense pretty quickly both in NJ and NO, and I’ll be disappointed if it happens again this year.
no disdain for the subject matter. just a bit tiresome being as we’ve been discussing trading them the past 6 seasons in a row.
understood there are potentially options and we do need to explore them.
What about his game is that much different though? If we have to define positions, just two years ago he was much better, on both sides of the ball, as a PF. Last year was more of the same, struggling against the bigger guys in the league. Whether we call him a C or PF he has to be given the opportunity to be more mobile on both ends of the court, and less banging around in the post.
our budget is directly tied in through our CC and all online. my wife would know already if I tried that 🙂
and yes, that is what the Clippers basically did with Billups last year anyway. left him out there as a SG (though at both ends).
or missed two consecutive high picks. I can’t even contemplate that, b/c that would solidify these last two years of Cleve sports as an era as bleak as the mid-1970s when things felt just hopeless all around. I better go to my happy place now. Ommmmm.
Hey how bout an offshoot microblog. We’ll call it “Trading for Next Year.” All pre-emptive strike-type trades/All the time, for those who want to build the org the “right way” for long term success.
Dang, getting positively cranky about this non-stop losing. Fantasizing that one of the teams will hire the unholy spawn of Fratello and Marty and Pat Riley circa 1990s to bring in old guys and goons and clock-eating styles and win ugly, win boring, just win so that we all can compain about the aesthetics of it.
why why why
dibs on “Drafting for the Year After Next”
because we need DEs and a FS, silly 🙂
I think his foot speed is slowing down. He’s still highly active, but just his ability to slide his feet to stay with PFs I think has gotten worse even in the last two years. I also think the average height/weight of PFs and Cs is going down… don’t have a way to prove that, I just know that centers like Shaq, Brad Miller, Memo Okur are going out and centers like Anthony Davis, Robert Sacre, and Kyle O’Quinn are coming in. I dunno, maybe I’m wrong… I think the fact that the all-star ballot has done away with the center position and is considering all frontcourt players to be forwards is a telling sign though.
Which seems really shady to me. Over the last few years Baylor has been getting big talents in both football and basketball, but why? They never win anything and before that time had not proven to be exceptional at getting their guys to the pros. Frankly, I think something stinks at Baylor.
Salt has been part of Cavs fans for years. From Carlos Boozer bolting to “Salt” Lake City after a promise….to LeBron throwing salt in our eyes summers ago.
you mean a bunch of college age kids preferring to go to a small Baptist college raises red flags? isn’t that the standard dream?
But he still got dominated the last two years by 5’s. The league didn’t change that much. Maybe the injuries and age have hampered him, but that’s still a hindrance no matter who he guards.
And I think what is more telling than the voting change is that most of the commentary was about how it should be PG, wings, and big men. There still are big men centers.
Hmmmm, reasons to go to college in Waco, TX:
Climate – errr, no
Nightlife – nah
Education – they’re athletes with pro potential. moot.
Females – hard to believe Waco has more to offer here
Cash Money from wealthy boosters – Ding ding ding