While We’re Waiting… Trying to get into the Indians’ off-season
January 3, 2013NFL Rumors: Browns interested in Seattle’s John Idzik for front office?
January 3, 2013It came out this morning that the Browns’ brass interviewed former Arizona Cardinals coach (and former Pittsburgh coordinator) Ken Whisenhunt. This, on the heels of their interview with Ray Horton and news of their forthcoming interview with Chip Kelly. Those are just the names of candidates that we know of since Joe Banner and Jimmy Haslam stationed themselves in Arizona around the Fiesta Bowl where Kelly’s Oregon team is set to face Kansas State tonight. The Browns have been linked to other names as well. Obviously their first move to go to Arizona shows that their first priority is Chip Kelly. Whether or not you like or agree with that, compared to the last two coaching searches in Berea, this one definitely feels different. Different in a good way.
Randy Lerner hired Eric Mangini nine days after he was fired by the Jets. He did so only after failing to land Scott Pioli as his general manager. Lerner spoke to other candidates like Steve Spagnuolo, Josh McDaniels and outgoing Browns defensive coordinator Mel Tucker before hiring Mangini.
When Pat Shurmur was hired the Browns had promised a wide search for their next coach. It remains unclear if Mike Holmgren tested the waters on bigger candidates like Jon Gruden and Bill Cowher in an unofficial capacity, but again it seems the search was anything but wide.1 The official record will show that Holmgren interviewed Mike Mularkey, Giants defensive coordinator Perry Fewell and Shurmur. An article from the AP also points out that Marty Mornhinweg’s name was bandied about but a meeting never happened.
Of course if the Browns get into a meeting with Chip Kelly on Friday and consummate a deal to make him the next coach of the Cleveland Browns, the number of interviews for Banner and Haslam’s search won’t be all that different. In fact, Horton, Whisenhunt and then a hire of Chip Kelly would seem to be even fewer, but the ambition of going after a Chip Kelly is at least something. Again, whether you like Kelly as a candidate or not, the fact that there is competition for his services from the Bills and Eagles is a clear differentiator from the hunt that led the Browns to Shurmur and Mangini.2
Of course none of this guarantees the Browns will get it right, whatever “it” is anyway. There’s never any guarantee of that. At this point all you can do is judge the process. That being the case and given the most recent comparisons for Browns fans, this search appears to be off to a decent start at least.
61 Comments
I wonder how much David Shaw’s buyout is…
Just a thought.
One thing that i really haven’t heard being discussed if we land Chip Kelly, I assume we will go after a GM as well given Kelly has no experience with NFL player personale?
While he doesn’t have NFL experience, he’s a college coach. College coaches are used to picking their own players and nobody understands what kinds of players he wants for his offense better than Kelly himself. I think the Browns will use their willingness to let Kelly play a huge role in personnel decisions as a major selling point and something that will make them stand out from other potential destinations.
I guess Marrone is rumored to be traveling to AZ to meet with the Browns as well. Did they set up shop at the Indians spring training facility?
Compare that to teams that got it right and how many they interviewed: Bengals, Steelers, 49ers and Atlanta to name a few. Pittsburgh’s and Baltimore’s coaches weren’t “hot” names either.
Marvin Lewis was the hottest thing out there when he was hired. Re: the Steelers and Ravens, it’s easier to succeed as a coach with a rock-solid system and hierarchy in place.
as desirable it is to be a HC in the NFL, I’m not sure if there was possibly a more UNDESIRABLE coaching position in recent NFL history as the 2011 Browns opening. The roster was a complete dumpsterfire with very little skill position players, and certainly very little homegrown talent. just don’t see many established guys, or even the “up and coming coordinator” would want to committ career suicide by coming to a situation that needed at least 2-3 more draft/offseasons to have a legit 53 man roster. Pat came because he had the commitment of his old friend Heckert and Holmgren that he would have 3-4 years to build this the right way, and of course Lerner had to do the most Lerneresque thing ever and sell the team after his first year.
He’s been saying from day 1 that he has no interest leaving Stanford… Not at this point anyways.
So… two guys + maybe one more guy = exhaustive coaching search now Craig? You and I have different definitions.
It’s January third and they’ve already interviewed Horton, Whisenhunt. Kelly is scheduled. Marrone is rumored. There are others rumored as well. OC from ATL re-signed there, but he was rumored.
I think you’re right that control over the 53-man is a major selling point. I think though you need a well-versed Player Personel Director to pull that off. Kelly’s been in college and shouldn’t have as great of knowledge of the NFL players as someone who’s been working in the NFL for the past 5 years. Let’s take the Ravens as an example. We need an experienced department much like what Savage and Kokinis together served as under Ozzie Newsome in Baltimore (before we hired each away, separately, and as distinct but major failures.)
The point is though you’re not hiring a Savage-type away from Baltimore to become Ozzie here. You’re hiring guys who can fill those roles that Savage and Kokinis were excelling at before we tried to promote them.
Don’t forget O’Brien as well. This is far from a one-man contest.
Its largely these reasons why I think Pat will get another HC shot at some point. He does, after all, have mouths to feed.
he’s definitely going to get an OC job, probably with Reid. afterall LaMonte isn’t going to leave him hanging after jumping on the sword of the Browns position a couple years ago. i really can’t think of a worse opening in recent NFL history other than the Raiders last year and the poor Raider Nation has no hope over there.
SF basically had their guy hired before the season had ended
Totally agreed….
Banner jetting to Arizona to schmooze Kelly before the bowl game to interview him the day after then satisfying the Rooney rule and having a backup with Wisenhunt (which is who they should be really considering anyways) is as far from “exhaustive” as you can be.
Rumor this, rumor that on who they MAY interview. If Kelly is hired on Friday, it will be a complete sham.
And roster.
Side bar: Why does every picture of Banner look like he’s just smelled the foulest of port-o-john rankness? Looks aren’t important here, but dude might be the least photogenic person in sports.
So hand an NFL team and heavy persuasion on he 53 man roster over to a college coach with no NFL experience….
Butch Davis…paging Butch Davis, you have a call at the front desk.
might be the shortest as well
In fact, didn’t he sign a major extension a week or two ago in order to memorialize this?
Three words: Mike Holmgrum.
That’s who we need.
Can anyone verify the rumor that O’Brien has a $19M buyout at Penn State?
A) I’m not saying Chip Kelly should or shouldn’t be hired. Just pointing out that hiring Kelly doesn’t necessarily mean the Browns are going to get a strong GM. In fact, I think it means the opposite.
B) So is hiring an assistant NFL coach or a coach with previous NFL head coaching experience the answer? Paging Chris Palmer, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, and Pat Shurmur.
C) I have no clue who the Browns should hire. I’m just saying, everyone likes to point out the college coaches who have failed, but there have been a ton more NFL assistants who have failed as head coaches. If Haslam and Banner think Chip Kelly is the most qualified and best man for the job, so be it. If they think it’s someone like Whisenhunt or Arians or Horton, I’m cool with that too.
Yes, that is true, but there’s some debate about whether he would have to pay it because Penn State lied to him about sanctions when they hired him.
Bob Costas might argue that
1. I agee totally that hiring Kelly means we see Lombardi or a “Director of Pro Personnel”.
B. You are correct, the Browns have had massive failures at choosing their next coach, regardless of where they cam from. But point to who has been doing the choosing and it’s to see why.
3. Out of the entire group of realistic hires out there… Kelly makes me the most nervous and Wisenhunt makes the least nervous. Notice neither make me confident because like you said all of them are a roll of the dice.
In the end I really could care less who is the HC next year as long as they win. WIN.. WIIIIIINNNNN.
They tried to get him to sign it but he blew it off because he was due at the presentation podium for his “Coach of the Millenium” award.
That last line is the bottom line for me as well. I can’t bring myself to get all worked up hoping for a certain hire. Who I think they should hire is irrelevant because they’re the ones doing the interviews and they’re the ones who are going to make the hire. If they hire Chip Kelly, boy I sure hope he’s more like Harbaugh and Carroll and less like Saban and Spurrier.
The more I read about this search, the more I’m convinced the Browns just need a complete overhaul. Wisenhunt was only successful with Warner at QB, so he’s set up to fail here unless the Browns trade for Romo or Rivers. Until this year, the NFC West wasn’t very competitive and AZ never did much. They were even 9-7 in their Super Bowl year. He had Kolb, Skelton, Lindley, Bartel, Hoyer to work with as QB’s and struggled. Very similar to Weeden, McCoy, Anderson, Quinn, Delhomme, Lewis here. The constant modeling after other franchises also hasn’t worked, so Haslem/Banner would be wise to take a new approach, which I think (hope) they’re doing. Kelly, Marrone, Horton all bring a new perspective. O’Brien has that Pats’ pedigree that we’ve already struck out with twice, although I tend to think Mangini should still be around. Arians has had the advantage of coaching Luck and then previously working with PIT, an efficient organization. Maybe he can work some wonders with Weeden, but hard to tell.
No matter how dysfunctional it may have been, Butch has had the best results out of all the coaches since ’99
Oh so rumors are facts now? Holmgren was rumored to interview Gruden, Cowher and Dungy and none of those materialized. Before you call something exhaustive perhaps you should wait until they happen.
Money talks. ;D
On an unrelated note, who was it that defended the limited search by Holmgren in the first place with such snippets as: “Do you think Holmgren really needs to interview John Fox?”
https://waitingfornextyear.com/2011/01/the-trip-to-destination-shurmur/#more-39555
I do believe that is Craig’s byline on that gem.
On a related note, read footnote 1 above.
Is that true? I don’t recall major media outlets ever reporting that Holmgren was scheduled to interview Gruden, Cowher, or Dungy.
I just hope to avoid a total roster over-haul to fit another new style….again.
Thanks for reading Garry!
Sorry when I check the official record I see Craig stating that Mike Holmgren was such a great “football guy” that he didn’t need to talk to anyone except Pat Shurmur.
If Banner/Haslam announced tomorrow that they reached a deal with Chip Kelly would we be calling this an “exhaustive” search or would we be saying that they interviewed three dudes just like Holmgren did previously?
it seems to me that Banner/Haslam has had a short list since the day they took over. and I’m sure they have done “exhaustive” research over the past 6 months. Just because it’s the first time they are actually interviewing the guy (or any of the others rumored to have interviewed) bears very little on how much time they have spent on the search. Due dilligence can be done by talking to other people in the league, associates, etc.
See footnote 1.
Hopefully in Tuscon, where they re-enacted spring training scenes from Major League
agree with Hopwin’s sentiments. We like this search but not because it is objectively more “exhaustive.” If there are more interviews it will maybe be 1 or 2 more. If there are 6 interviews it will indicate a mini-disaster of missing on top choices.
I like this search because it seems carefully calculated for months by smart people who know what they want and have shown competence hiring coaches. Holmgren and Heck never before led a HC search, and treated the organization like they had the puttering time to grow it from seed. Lerner was a serial offender, itching to throw the keys to anyone who would just make locals stop screaming at him to do something. This one feels right: energetic and edgy and seeking the best.
Even if they whiff no one can claim it was lazy or seat o’ the pants.
Not a fan of how secretive they are being. Why can’t they just say who they’ve interviewed like most teams do?
they did have blessing from Randy to have the time to grow it from seed. When Heckert inherited the roster, there was a grand total of 6 players who were homegrown Browns. (drafted or undrafted 1st year FA’s). in order for ANY team to have any sort of sustainable success in the league you need at least 30 homegrown, most of the great teams have even more (NE has 40, NYG has 42). we just no hit 34 this past draft and it should be even higher going into next training camp. we would be heading into Year 4 of the 5 year plan they started on and Banner and his guys have a real great shot of finishing what was started with another solid draft and wisely investing the $40m war chest that Heckert saved for these next 2 offseasons when the roster had the proper foundation to add some extra outside help and get us in the playoffs no later than 2014
well, I was focusing mostly on coaching searches. As in wait a full year to fire the guy you know you will cuz you’re a fellow coach and feel bad. And take an unknown assistant who’s never even been a high school HC and hand him a gutted team.
Regarding roster turnover I basically agree. But I do keep in mind that not all our Heckert additions are necessarily keepers. When all are healthy, I might trade our current linebackers, defensive secondary and tight ends for those on almost any team.
as a seasoned browns fan i know how this coach thing will end up. much like RG3… we will lose out on Kelly… Kelly’s new team next year will go to the super bowl while we win 2 games in a “transition” year, with who ever they get for a coach here… only to draft another failed QB… Waiting for 5 years from now! they’ll certainly be good then… right?
Sought after college players are not the same as sought after college coaches. College coaches rarely succeed in the NFL. I hope it makes you feel better that while our fourth choice will be failing in Cleveland, Kelly will be failing in Arizona.
Well, since whatever discussion there is will end in a settlement, you might as well call it an $8m or so buyout. Also, I’m not a lawyer, but I think such clauses are limited by the amount of damage the breach of contract could plausibly cause.
It’s really only an issue if Haslam thinks it’s an issue. There’s no cap for coaches… if Haslam thinks he’s the guy and doesn’t care about shelling out millions, he very well might go get him. Unfortunately we don’t really have any history on Haslam to guess if he would make that kind of move or not.