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January 24, 2013The Cleveland Browns have been committal about being non-committal about their quarterback situation. From Rob Chudzinski to Michael Lombardi and yesterday Norv Turner the Browns have been steadfast in putting barely a single word on the record that leads anyone to believe that Weeden is first on the depth chart right this very second. Even if you’ve somehow found a way to infer that, it is only by default because that’s the way the season ended and there hasn’t been a roster move that easily leads everyone to speculation otherwise. The Browns claim to need to see more tape study, but it seems to me that a need for more tape study is all the sign of a lack of confidence that I need to see.
I am not saying anything about Brandon Weeden, personally. I think he had a pretty typical rookie year, statistically speaking. He definitely trailed many of his rookie brethren in terms of rookie performance too. I’m just characterizing the vibes I’m reading from the public comments thus far. And maybe it’s true that they need to see more tape. Maybe they will unleash those hours of footage of Shurmur-led practices and decide that Weeden is a guy they can mold and that under their new tutelage he’ll become a front line NFL starter. It just seems to me that the guy who plays the most important position on the team who also put 15 games of real NFL video into the universe this season is likely to have made enough of an impression on the team that they might be willing to say something that tips their hand that they like him. Of course that’s only true if they were given a positive impression.
To be fair, Norv Turner was somewhat complimentary of Weeden because he helped the Browns beat Turner’s Chargers this season. Then again, Weeden had a QB rating of 55.9 against the Chargers completing 11 of 27 passes for 129 yards in a 7-6 win.
“Brandon’s a very, very young player in terms of his experience,” Turner said before adding “but he did good things in the game when we played and he did good things in the games that we evaluated getting ready for that game.” That’s not wholly uncomplimentary, but he polished it off by saying, “So for me to give you a big evaluation on Brandon would not be fair. I, first of all, haven’t met him and I just started looking at tape.” I’m sure his tape study is different now than it was when the Chargers were game planning, but didn’t Turner just say they reviewed his tape before going up against the Browns?
That line about tape study should sound familiar because it is almost exactly what Rob Chudzinski has said so far. To me that’s just enough of a company line about a guy who is far from being a locked in starter. Again, this isn’t to say anything about the qualifications of Colt McCoy or even down the depth chart to Thaddeus Lewis. This is just to say the old adage (that everyone’s tired of me quoting) is still true. If you don’t know if you have a quarterback, then you don’t have one. If you have a controversy, you don’t have one. When you have one you’ll know it.
The best case scenario for Brandon Weeden right now is that the Browns truly mean it when they say they don’t know yet. More likely though, I think they would know enough about what they’ve seen so far that they’d be expressing some confidence in what they might expect him to turn into with their coaching and with their systems. But they would only give us that information if they felt confident in him.
All that being the case, I’d be surprised if they didn’t at least explore options at the position this off-season including the draft. What position always rises in the NFL draft? Quarterback, of course. Could it rise all the way to number six? Would that even get the Browns the best QB prospect in the draft? Probably not. I know it might seem like I’m trolling with a question like that, but if you don’t know and it’s the most important question that any team needs to answer, you never know what depths – or draft heights – teams will go to achieve it. I still wouldn’t bet on the Browns doing anything like that because I just don’t see the QB prospects in the draft this year, but a bold move for a QB this off-season still wouldn’t shock me either by free agency or by trade.
In the end, this isn’t great news for Brandon Weeden, but it is good news for Browns fans, I think. One of the most frustrating parts of last season for me was the lack of true competition at quarterback as Shurmur and company handed Brandon Weeden the job. I think Weeden’s ceiling is higher than Colt McCoy’s, but I don’t doubt for one second that Colt McCoy gave the Browns the better chance to win in the first quarter of the season. The Browns were too ingrained in old school thinking to be bold enough to face potential controversy and try to win games at any cost. If that meant starting Colt McCoy for the first four to eight games and then giving way to Brandon Weeden, so be it.
We’ve seen it too many times now. Russell Wilson wasn’t supposed to be the starter in Seattle this year. It was supposed to be Matt Flynn. Colin Kaepernick wasn’t supposed to be the starter in San Francisco. It was supposed to be Alex Smith. Go back in time even further. Tom Brady wasn’t supposed to supplant Drew Bledsoe, especially after Bledsoe went down due to injury.
The Browns seem like they might be poised to make whatever decision they think will win them the most games right away. Never mind where anyone was drafted, or who started the most games this past season. Also maybe we can forget a lip-service sham of a quarterback competition that was allowed Brandon Weeden to sleepwalk through the pre-season as the Browns sputtered out of the gates. You’re supposed to do whatever you can to win football games. If that means Brandon Weeden starts, then fine, but I think I’m happy that they haven’t named him the starter just yet.
71 Comments
Based on the needs of teams above us, I wouldn’t be surprised if Geno Smith fell to us at 6 – excluding the possibility that another team trades up to be ahead of us of course. The new staff would be hard pressed to not draft a guy like Smith if he’s still on the board, especially considering Chud’s recent experience in coaching Cam Newton.
Yikes! Cam Newton and Geno Smith are nothing alike. Smith ran 66 times for 151 yards and 2 TDs… that’s a 2.3 yard per rush average. In Newton’s year at Auburn he ran 264 times for 1,473 yards and 20 TDs. That’s a 5.6 yards per rush average.
I didn’t mean it in that they are both dual threats, I meant it in that Chud has experience in dealing with rookie QBs and making them (relatively) successful.
He’ll absolutely be there at 6 b/c he isn’t worth taking in the top 10
If that’s the case, I don’t know why they wouldn’t just stick with Weeden… he’s got the same skill set in my eyes and doesn’t cost a 1st round draft pick.
Think it’s way early to be reading these tea leaves. An important statement from Turner’s presser was (paraphrasing) that you don’t know a whole lot until you see if a QB can take your teaching into a practice or take the practice into a game. Turner has developed a lot of QBs. He has not yet spoken at all with Weeden, so he cannot measure whether Weeden is resistant to his coaching because he is hard-headed, stupid, or has a sense of entitlement to the starting position. Not sure why we should expect Tuner or Chud to say anything different than they have, regardless of the promise or lack thereof they see on tape.
Let’s turn the question around. What column would you be writing if Turner had instead said, “The best players at every position will start but this guy looks like a winning QB to me”? Maybe this column would say: no way can Turner know this already given his rookie year and the fact that Turner went right from his firing to a Hawaii vacation to this presser probably infers that these words are intended only as a needed confidence boost, and if Weeden doesn’t make a big jump he’ll regret these words.
I think Turner’s and Chud’s words so far have been generic and mean little. And if you respond saying, look how Turner gushed about Trent!, I’ll respond by saying RB is not the same, it’s not a position that has a steep learning curve and you can eyeball the future pretty much immediately.
From everything I’ve seen, no QB coming out this year would rank ahead of Brandon Weeden – and next year, a much better crop of QBs are likely to come out. Plus, I’m not a fan of switching to this “new” QB model that may have already destroyed RGIII’s career (another reason why Heckert made the right call in not spitting up three first-rounders, IMHO).
If the Browns tank next year with this QB crop, they’ll be in position to get one of these other QBs. If they want to take a fourth- or fifth-round flier on a guy this year, great. I still think Weeden was grossly miscoached (especially on game days) and would love to see him get another crack. Ditto McCoy, for that matter.
Implement the system with these guys. If they’re bad, they’ll be in a position to get someone in ’14.
I think you need to bring in a veteran like Alex Smith or Matt Flynn and then let the pre-season competition playout. Even though I have some bad memories of pre-season competitions, agree with Craig that this is the way to go.
Also, not sure about Tyler Wilson out of Arkansas but been hearing he could be a possibility at 6. Think this is a huge stretch since I bet he would still be there in round three.
This article has good balance, even if the conclusion is that the topic is not as compelling as it seems.
This is the one issue on which reality makes the question less pressing. There’s no clear cut #1 QB in the draft that the Browns would be desperate for, which would require an early and decisive read on Weeden. Kaepernik and Wilson, the two QBs of the moment, show that a later pick can excel. Most likely, the Browns will draft a QB somewhere below the second round, and Weeden will have a reasonable shot to compete for the job. If he loses it, it will be because there’s another Russell Wilson who beat him out. If he holds on to it, he has a season with established weapons and a great coordinator to take the next step.
exactly. Geno Smith and Brandon Weeden are nearly the same guy. both played the Holgorsen offense in college and both of their stats were helped out by superior offensive weaponry getting YAC on those bubble-screens (and playing in the defenseless BigXII).
Yes. Let’s please bring in Matt Flynn, a guy who couldn’t beat out a 4th round rookie.
The whole “grass isn’t always greener” adage needs to be tattooed on every Browns fan.
Harv, I rarely post on here but I always enjoy reading your insightful and articulate comments. (Just make sure you put that question mark inside the quote next time.)
I’m not sure why my Browns fan brethren are wanting a commitment from the new regime on Weeden. The Browns are the only team that would have picked him in the first round, so we’re talking about a second round talent who’s twenty-nine years old and still needs time to develop. He had to play at a high level this year to justify the pick and he didn’t. I think the new front office and coaching staff know they have a guy who can play but they also know that there are plenty of younger guys who can be just as good or better. I liked Heckert but that pick reeked of desperation. Weeden was the old group’s project. I think he’ll still be on the team, possibly the week one starter, but everyone should expect him to be replaced as the starting quarterback as soon as possible.
Yeah, lot of Weeden pick = desperation talk going around lately, but for me that’s too strong a depiction for what happened. Think it was more: 1) we need a real QB, right now; 2) we think this guy can be a real QB; 3) Don’t worry about what round you get a guy you think is important, just get him while he’s there.
Thanks for the kind words.
[btw, placement of question mark is correct, the question wasn’t part of the quote]
well, Alex Smith lost his starting job at SF AND will also be sought after by other teams. Which means we’d be bidding on a guy whose success may have peaked as a Harbaugh creation and whose contract will necessitate him
being the starter, not a guy just competing with Weeden.
And speaking of a guy whose success was the product of a system and particular team … Matt Flynn? Would be crazy to replicate a mistake another just made about him.
Not sure why everyone has all of the sudden gone sour on Matt Barkley. He would’ve battled RGIII for the #2 pick and would have definitely gone in the top 5 last year. This year he played on a team that fell apart for multiple reasons. He got Lane Kiffin’d. His offensive line was atrocious. The defense was bad. He was injured. Yet he still put up solid numbers, granted he did have two of the top 5 WRs in all of college football. He isn’t the “new dual QB” you speak of. He’s an old fashioned gunslinger.
He’s going to fall a bit in this draft, and whoever drafts him – which will probably be a decent team who already has a quarterback – is going to get a huge return in a couple of years. I seem to remember the Packers benefiting from this quite a few years ago.
Not saying the Browns should draft him, but don’t say there isn’t any good QBs in this draft. I think Geno Smith will be less than impressive in the NFL. The kid from Tennessee (Bray I believe?) has a chance to be solid. NC State’s QB also looks decent for a middle rounder (maybe another Russell Wilson?).
Ok, here are our options and a very brief snippet on each. SPOILER ALERT: feels like most/all of these are just stop-gap options.
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Internal Options
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Brandon Weeden – not a great rookie year, but is Chud’s offense better for him?
Colt McCoy – hasn’t taken advantage of opportunities but seems prototypical backup NFL QB
Thaddeus Lewis – I am not seeing what others are with him. I think he won’t even be on the team next season.
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External Veteran Options
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Philip Rivers – going to cost picks + salary + he’s regressed past couple of years (with OL issues and less weaponry). Still possibly the “best” QB option available.
Alex Smith – only did well under Harbaugh with limited responsibilities. But, could that lightbulb have gone on for him?
Matt Flynn – he’s the same guy he was last year. great success in GB-WCO with great weaponry around him. the issue is that he has alot of the same limitations of Colt McCoy and his expertise of the WCO no longer is a benefit. I move him to no (I don’t care that Russell Wilson beat him out – RW proved to be pretty good).
Derek Anderson – I fully expect us to bring him in. But, I also expect it as a backup only and to do it because he can teach our QBs Chud’s offense during the blackout period where coaches are not allowed to talk to players.
Ryan Mallet – ugh. wasn’t a fan in college, not a fan now (with no real experience to bank on either). he’s got a strong arm.
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External Draft Options – no particular order / same means “roughly same”
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Geno Smith – same prospect as Weeden even had Holgorsen too. No at #6.
EJ Manuel – interesting Big Ben style QB. need to trade up to the 2nd
likely and I’d consider it. One of the few guys that “could” be an
answer long-term.
Matt Barkley – same prospect as Colt McCoy except his team apparently hated him. No (anywhere in the draft).
Tyler Wilson – same prospect as Ryan Mallet – would consider in 4th but he’ll be gone.
Tyler Bray – another interesting prospect, but I wouldn’t ant to consider him until the 3rd round (and he’ll likely be gone)
Landry Jones – not sure why he’s even a prospect. watched him closely and he’s been terrible more often than not IMO. No (anywhere in the draft).
Mike Glennon – I don’t know what to make of him honestly. Is he a Matt Ryan that looked worse in college than he really is? haven’t seen enough of him to venture a guess.
Zac Dysert – not sure how much of his stats are due to MACtion. Intriguing guy in the mid-rounds though.
Nassib/Scott – not really high on either of these late-round fliers.
Then give me a comma. 🙂 I’ll stop now.
Like I said, I thought it was desperate when it happened and I tend to be a reluctant optimist when it comes to the Browns.
Your first point is an indication of desperation, no? If he was obviously ready to step in and lead the team why didn’t they take him at three? The guy just has too much working against him (age, draft position) for a new leadership group to commit long-term. Most of the articles I’ve read lately want them to clearly commit one way or the other but I don’t see any good in that and it doesn’t seem like new leadership group does either.
“contract will necessitate him being the starter”
you could have said the same thing about Matt Flynn and Alex Smith with their contracts last offseason. i feel pretty strongly that Chud/Norv won’t look at contracts when deciding who to start.
I agree on the bidding though. I expect KC to try to get Flynn as a stop-gap, but that still leaves lots of other places that need a stop-gap QB (JAX, NYJ, AZ, et cetera).
all of a sudden? there was alot of negative Barkley talk last year, which is part of the reason he went back to school (and into this weaker class of QBs).
what did he do this season? even w/ the best college WR? he struggled with his control and he was a primary reason they lost each of the games they did with terrible costly INTs at some of the worst times (Stanford, Oregon, AZ, UCLA).
not to mention there were mentions he was not a good leader that finally came to a head in a full-out ruckus of team-fracturing after the bowl game loss. he’s got the arm-strength of college-Colt with less accuracy and no leadership. no.thank.you.
my wife and father-in-law are lifetime USC fans. they were in love with Palmer/Leinart. they are happy Barkley is leaving. it’s a relief for them.
Nice summary.
As for EJ Manuel…I like him too. However, he too wears #3. I can see it now, Weeden, DA, and Manuel all competing for #1 and the right to wear #3.
Sweet mercy no… any team thinking about taking Glennon should gouge their eyes out. Physical tools are impressive. Mental makeup is simply awful. I wouldn’t take him earlier than a 6th or 7th round flyer, but he’ll be gone long before that.
Off topic, but at first I thought DB was right on the placement of the question mark. But then I looked it up… and alas, you were right. Good on ya for knowing football AND knowing grammar!
I think we’ll see a mid-round QB drafted that will compete against Weeden in camp for the starting job. Weeden will beat him out, and we’ll see what he can really do outside of Shurmur’s awfense.
I was all aboard the Mike Glennon train for his freshman season at NC State. His older brother Sean was QB at Virginia Tech for several years and I was interested to see how he would compare. By the end of Mike’s senior year, I wanted off the ride for good. He has the same mental makeup as his brother… he’s not a natural leader and he’s not a big game quarterback. For his senior season I think his 5 TD/ 1 INT loss against Clemson is the mirage. The true Mike Glennon can be found in the opening and closing losses of the season to SEC minnows Tennessee and Vandy, respectively. 2 TDs/ 7 INTs. Compare his college performance to Derek Anderson… he’s DA with more passing attempts.
DB – yeah, the question mark only goes inside the quotes if the phrase contained in the quotes could stand alone as a question. I know you’re probably aware, but you’re a complete TOOL for trying to police his grammar AND being completely wrong.
Agreed – BIG NO on Barkley.
I am baffled that some posters actually think the Browns are going to waste our #6 on a QB- ain’t happenin’ fellas- even with Lombardi in the draft room trying to throw around whatever lame title he has- what a joke that hire is
I think the Browns management is taking the right approach. Their success depends largely on the QB. Because of Weeden’s age, he needed to perform at a level where there would be no doubts he is the Browns QB. He was not only dramatically outperformed by Luck, RGIII and Wilson, but also by Kapernick, who while not a rookie, saw his first NFL action. I think Chud, Turner and co. need time to make a thoughtful decision about a player the previous regime reached for. I don’t think they should feel pressured to make a commitment in January just because someone in the press asks the question.
The long-term solution at QB for the Browns is not currently on the roster. I think there’s a better than average chance that the browns will snag a new QB via free agency or a trade (but not the draft). There are good guys out there that may need a change of scenery…Alex Smith, Phillip Rivers and Mark Sanchez come to mind.
look, blast me for my opinions but leave my punctuation, spelling, typos, missing words, double words, redundancies, etc ALONE.
I’m multitasking, sometimes posting from events and locations I’d be embarrassed to admit for professional purposes. Any correct grammar is the result of HEROIC effort. I almost always have to edit after the post. Wield your red pen judiciously, friend, and I’ll return the favor. 🙂
I don’t see a change of scenery helping Sanchez… I really hope the Browns have no interest in him.
Yikes! same for Smith.
I don’t want that tat… Unless it’s free…. & in Japanese so I can lie about what it really says.
Didn’t want Matt Flynn last year, don’t want him now. GLAD the FO didn’t fall for him.
With their needs on defense, no second rounder and a weak QB class, don’t see them taking anything in this draft but a prospect maybe in the 4th or 5th round. Obviously, they can start wheeling and dealing close to the draft to try and recoup the second rounder but the more I think about it the more I see instead some big-armed FA that Norv thinks he can take into his garage with Weeden and soup up.
Sorry. I was wrong about the question mark and I really didn’t intend for that to be the takeaway. I knew there was some missing punctuation and thought it would be taken as humorous. I tend to forget how message board life works. Keep doing your thing and don’t worry about the red pen. I’ll reserve that for my own words. Farewell.
Yikes. Relax, dudesicle, the all caps and smiley in my comment is supposed to indicate that I am kidding-offended, not really offended. The stiffness of tone is just my default WFNY persona which started so long ago that I can’t remember its original purpose.
So you are sticking to the old adage about quarterback competitions, but then saying the Browns should have had a competition last year? Thus to possibly say, “If you have a quarterback competition, you really don’t have a quarterback, but the Browns should have had a competition because they don’t really need a quarterback.” Perhaps this was the philosophy during those pathetic days of my childhood when I was forced to watch Kevin Johnson and Dennis Northcutt fill in at QB.
I guess this means what they know about Weeden is that they’re probably stuck with him for next season. But they want to send him a message that he needs to work for it.
Hopefully we wait and take a flyer on a QB in the mid rounds (or not at all). Maybe Bray or Wilson. Manual may have the most talent of the QB’s in this draft, but he never lived up to – guys like that rarely make it in the NFL.
Oh, I’m relaxed and I get your humor/sarcasm. The message board life comment was directed toward the dude that seems pretty angry and called me a TOOL.
If I say, “GoBrowns!” will this all go away?
Nice summary. Thanks.
Not to mention his dangling participle!
From your fingertips to the football God’s eyes/ears. Remember, this is Cleveland though and anything is possible especially if it’s bad!
I’d rather see someone like Alex Smith brought in but if it’s a mid-round pick say 4th or later I wouldn’t mind. Personally I’d like to see McCoy go head to head with Weeden in a fair competition as well.
If we draft a QB at #6 I will eat my hat.
For a 5th round or later? There is huge potential there to get something. I don’t think he was implying to draft him early.
You are entitled to that opinion… I don’t see anything there personally. I see Derek Anderson part 2.
“With progress in decision making that NFL scouts will be pleased to see, plus he comes from a pro-style offense and has good intangibles. Barkley has mastered the West Coast offense and is well-prepared for the NFL. ”
“Scouts value Barkley’s leadership, poise and accuracy on the move”
” 05/14/12 BIG BOARD, BEST FOR 2013: 1. Matt Barkley, QB, Southern Cal: Barkley’s lack of ideal size (6-1, 218) and arm strength mean that he’s no shoo-in as the No. 1 overall prospect for the 2013 draft, but his accuracy, mobility and experience in a pro-style offense would have earned him a spot in the top five in 2012.”
” it is clear he does so many of the “little” things well, like rolling either to his left or right and consistently firing accurate passes on the move or freezing the safeties by looking one direction and passing the other..”
This was the write-ups before this past season or after it from the various respected scout orgs.. It also states that had he came out last season he was a safer pick than RGIII because of his familiarity with a pro system. Obviously RGIII overcame what many doubted and played well, but that’s not the point. Yeah he threw INTs, but when you are getting sacked every other play and your defense constantly gives up the lead that’s to be expected.
I follow CFB more than the NFL and I hadn’t ever heard of his attitude causing problems. I would say the opposite actually. He always presents himself very intelligent with a good head on his shoulders. The reported locker room incident was overblown, and has since been dismissed as a misreported rumor.
I agree he doesn’t have a cannon arm and is a tad undersized, but not by very much. I don’t think the Browns should get him either. But to say that there was a lot of negativity around him a year ago is exaggerated. Whoever drafts him is going to get a kid that will develop into a solid QB, provided he isn’t thrown into the fire in year one.
the updated/spun USC Sun Bowl story:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21563825/kiffin-barkley-refute-reports-of-post-bowl-locker-room-fight
he was at best considered the 3rd QB and by most he was considered in the 4th -7th cluster of QBs (after Tannehill). he thought he could come back and be the topQB. he was wrong.
the more scouts have watched him, the more he fell on boards.
http://www.espn1100.com/NFL-Agent-Steve-Caric-says-Matt-Barkley-Should-be-/11190684?pid=180201
was he a 1st round prospect on most mock drafts in January? yes. do I think he slips to the 2nd round in the actual draft? also yes.
do I think he slips into the 3rd round in this draft? he should.
I think alot of Glennon’s hype is because he was coached by the same guy that “molded” Matt Ryan and Russell Wilson!!!! (as if that makes Glennon equally as good?)