While We’re Waiting… Team players?
April 17, 2013A big summer for Kyrie, in more ways than one
April 17, 2013The Indians series with the Boston Red Sox certainly didn’t lack for storylines. First and foremost, you had the Boston Marathon bombings, which took place just after the Red Sox Patriots day game with the Tampa Bay Rays. The Sox came to Cleveland with heavy hearts to face their old manager Terry Francona. Tito did put it out there right away – this series isn’t about him. But he has to want this one just a little bit more than the others. Then there is Ubaldo….
All spring long, the Indians brass would tell you how well Ubaldo Jimenez was throwing. Few believed it. Then in his first start of the season Jimenez bobbed and weaved his way through six innings for a win. He got the ball from Francona on Opening Day in Cleveland and reverted back into the Ubaldo we all know and…well I won’t say love. He couldn’t make it out of the fifth inning, giving up seven earned runs in front of 40,000 plus at Progressive Field. With the back to back rainouts last week, the Indians smartly moved Ubaldo back in the rotation, giving him a couple of extra days to work out the kinks with pitching coach Mickey Callaway. Again, we were told by the Indians that Jimenez had a “great side session” and would be ready for his next start.
Did anyone buy that?
With another chance to show his improved mechanics, the much-maligned right-hander took the mound last night seeking redemption for the Opening Day debacle. Things started well enough for him – he retired the Sox 1-2-3 in the first. After that, Jimenez went completely south. Mike Napoli doubled to open the second. Will Middlebrooks then started the base on balls party. He came back to strike out Daniel Nava, but that was just a stay of execution. Ubaldo fell behind in the count on one hitter after another and completely lost his way. He walked Johnny Gomes to load the bases and David Ross to force in the first run of the game. Pedro Ciriaco fought off a pitch for the other way for a sacrifice fly to score Middlebrooks. Ubaldo could have easily made his night a lot easier and minimized the damage right there if he could get Jacoby Ellsbury.
He didn’t.
Ellsbury hit a sharp single right up the middle off of the glove of a diving Asdrubal Cabrera. Another run scored. Ellsbury stole second without even a throw from catcher Carlos Santana. It is like pouring salt in the wound when Ubaldo can’t even come close to holding a runner on at first. Up stepped Shane Victorino, the man the Indians offered a four-year deal to before signing Nick Swisher. I bet you can’t guess what he did? Yep, walk number four to re-load the bases. Ubaldo’s final act on this night was…you guessed it…a walk to Dustin Pedroia which forced in another run.
He walked off the field, as the late Nev Chandler once said, to a “chorus in boo flat.”
Enter Cody Allen, who promptly gave up a two-run double to Napoli, his second of the inning. That closed the book on Ubaldo with this stellar line: 1.2 innings pitched, seven earned runs, two hits, and five walks.
“In the first inning, I felt good, and the ball was coming out of my hand good,” Jimenez said. “In the second inning, I couldn’t control the ball. I don’t know why. I really felt good, I just wasn’t able to close out the inning after there were two outs.”
I’m going to be completely reactionary here. I’m one for patience, but this is an extreme instance. The time has arrived. We have all seen enough of Ubaldo Jimenez. What more does he have to do to prove that he isn’t a viable starting pitcher? He has horrific mechanics that a third pitching coach in three years can’t seem to fix. His velocity is a shell of what it was during his half-season peak in Colorado in 2010. The Indians cannot continue to trot this guy out there every fifth day and hope that he can somehow make it through five innings. It taxes the bullpen. The upside isn’t there. He isn’t a power pitcher anymore, he has serious command issues, and he can’t hold runners on base.
Other than that, Ubaldo is great!
You look up today and the now infamous Jimenez for Drew Pomeranz, Alex White, and two other prospects deal has been an abject disaster on both sides. Colorado received what has essentially become two failed first round pick pitching prospects for a guy whom they knew had issues, but still had plenty of value on the trade market. Jimenez has been a hugely spectacular failure in Cleveland at the cost of $11 million and their two biggest trading chips at the time.
Make no mistake, there really are no winners in this trade. White bounced back and forth between AAA and the majors and flamed out of the Rockies rotation. This winter, White was dealt to Houston. He will miss all of 2013 after Tommy John surgery on his pitching elbow. Pomeranz made 22 starts in 2012 going 2-9 with a 4.93 ERA and couldn’t make the 25-man roster this Spring on a pitching starved team.
It is all hindsight now, but we can’t forget that this trade was made by the current front office, who bet their two biggest trade pieces on a pitcher with major mechanical issues. Shouldn’t there have been huge red flags up when the Rockies were willing to give up a then-27 year old starter on a club friendly deal that had a year and a half left on it and additional $5.75 million and $8 million team options for 2013 and 2014?
Our friend Jordan Bastian of Indians.com came up with this stat that should tell you all you need to know:
Dating back to July 14 last season, Jimenez has gone 1-12 with7.27 ERA in 17 outings for the Indians. Last win came on Aug. 9 last year.
— Jordan Bastian (@MLBastian) April 17, 2013
I still can’t wrap my head around what is worse – the Indians wasting their best trade assets on a suspect Ubaldo Jimenez or the fact that it was Brad Grant and his scouting staff – who are still with the team – that drafted two guys in the first round who thus far haven’t proven they are Major League worthy.
My guess is that Jimenez will get one or two more starts to re-establish himself, but at this point he is too far gone. The second he gets in trouble, he starts to overthink and loses it. His issues aren’t just mechanical, they reside between his ears.
After the game, Ubaldo said he will go back to throwing twice between starts with Callaway. “I have to erase everything,” Jimenez said.
Can we erase the trade?
The Tribe went on to lose this one 7-2 and you have to credit the work of Allen, Nick Hagadone, Rich Hill, and Bryan Shaw who kept the Red Sox scoreless for the final seven innings, striking out 15. That is about the only silver lining you can find in this one. “Our bullpen was unbelievable,” said Francona.
The good news is that Tribe stopper Justin Masterson (3-0, 0.42 ERA) goes tonight in game two of the series. The Red Sox will send out Alfredo Aceves (0-0, 6.57 ERA), who was actually their closer a year before.
(AP Photo/Mark Duncan)
68 Comments
i have a hard time jettisoning him in april….CMON MAN!
No matter how great you throw, how fast you can run or how far you can hit a ball, baseball is not for those too mentally weak to limit their thinking out there and just repeat their mechanics.
Looks to me like Ubaldo’s just psyched himself out. They can’t rebuild him mentally from scratch by sending him to the minors, or to the lunar surface in mid-season like they tried with Fausto. It’s especially cruel when a guy had it and then lost it because of what’s in his own head. Probably needs a shrink more than another pitching coach.
Carrasco is showing the same lack of mental fortitude Jimenez has and people want him to start? Bauer showed guts when he didn’t really have it in a spot start in being able to go 5 innings. Hopefully we get the Kazmir of 2004-8, and Matsuzaka is too injury-prone to be viable. Long spiel short: the Indians need another major-league caliber starter (Bauer/Kluber not ready yet, Carrasco suspended/starting to lose it, Jimenez lost it).
Hammy pointed out in the 1st that Ubaldo’s landing point wasn’t facing home, which is what they’ve been trying to fix. Time for Antonetti to cut his losses.
Ubaldo has never, ever taken responsibility for his own flaws. To say something like “In the second inning, I couldn’t control the ball. I don’t know why.” shows me that he really doesn’t have any interest in owning up to sucking as bad as he has.
2-0 Tribe win last night without Ubaldo. I’m still counting it.
He looks and acts like he just doesn’t care. And he doesn’t seem to want to work to make himself better.
Maybe he does care, and maybe he does try. But it sure doesn’t look that way, and it’s sure not paying off.
Trouble is, what do you do with the guy? Cut him loose?
Where have you been, nerd? We need your counsel over in the Hasgrum posts.
I don’t.. byebye
Geez. Sorry. Did you even think to activate the Nerd Signal???
Sadly, I have no idea what’s going on with Hasbro. I don’t know what a truck stop “rebate” is (free Tastykakes?), or why the distribution or non-distribution thereof would require an FBI lockdown and IRS agents in white body armor. I went blind last night studying my tax code, and still have no clue. My official legal opinion is that it’s “bad juju.”
I’m going to stick with what I know: Ubaldo can’t “pitch” a “baseball.”
Time to send Ubaldo down to the minors as low as you can go and see if there is any way that he can figure it out. Because it is not working on the major league level.
If another team wants to claim him, well, so be it. I’m confident (mostly) that the Indians can find someone to replace his two-inning starts without too much trouble.
Was at the game last night. I would rather have my finger nails pulled out than have to sit through another Ubaldo start. The guy needs the Carmona treatment, send him back to extended spring training to start over and hope you can get a few reasonable starts out of him. That is the best case scenario….I think he’s done.
And I think it’s the opposite – he’s a sensitive guy and is trying too hard as things go south. He looked so relieved/happy after his one good start. But I think his psyche is so fragile at this point that it would take a string of good starts to get him straight. And Francona can’t pencil in a loss every 5 days all spring and hope something clicks. This must be an Antonetti nightmare, having the fans hold up the same failure every week with no options but to send him to long relief.
Well, at least he only gave up 2 hits, right? Ehhh. I still feel it’s too soon to pull the plug on him altogether. but maybe it’s time to move him back in the rotation, or consider him for the bullpen for the time being.
Has anyone read that fascinating piece on Ubaldo from the season’s start? I don’t think the issue is his stuff as much as it’s his head.
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/43634906/
So based on our limited sample, fan sentiment on Ubaldo is split.
Some think he tries too hard and therefore sucks.
Others think he doesn’t try at all and therefore sucks.
But one thing we all can agree on is . . .
This is my thinking, too.
I’m just wondering how long it will be until we find out that his real name is really “Ace Rodriguez-Santochristo,” and that he’s really 43 years old. It’s tough to carry that hidden weight around.
Ubaldo looked decent in his first start. Better than Masterson did in his. Of course, since then, Masterson has looked great, while Ubaldo seems to be sinking lower and lower into the depths of terribleness.
I got home in time to turn on the 3rd inning. Seeing a different pitcher out there was pretty much all I needed to know.
About those caught stealing numbers from Ubaldo Jimenez:
2013: 1/4 (25.0%)
2012: 5/37 (13.5%)
2011: 2/10 (20.0%)
Total in 45 starts and 254.0 IP with Indians: 8/51 (15.7%)
Just for comparison, the the caught-stealing percentage across all of baseball from 2011-2013 is 26.9%.
Never start a land war in Asia.
…we should be prepared to drink when Ubaldo pitches.
wow, did you just pour that, before noon? Or do you keep that pic on your phone for inspiration?
The Front Office has to come to terms w the concept of “sunk cost.” Once they do–and realistically assess Ubaldo’s performance regardless of what they paid for the lemon–he’ll be gone. We’ve all known since mid last yr this was a debacle–hopefully the FO’s come to Jesus moment won’t come too late before the season gets away.
Progress!! Progress??
I don’t know, Jacob, maybe sometimes you reach for your numbers for the same reasons many of us reach for the bourbon. Sometimes because it’s fun, but sometimes just to medicate.
Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line?
Props on correct usage of “sunk cost” I love it!
How many ticket sales are they losing because of s**tty starting pitching? Not only is this a sunk cost, it is a continued detriment to the bottom line via attendance.
If Pomeranz and White don’t turn-out to be anything great, then I can’t get really mad about this. I’ll assume the front-office saw what they had in those two and felt this trade was worth the risk, and it just failed. The only thing I’d maybe get upset about is… some theoretical situation where they could have gotten something other than Ubaldo for Pomeranz/White, like a true RH power hitter with a few years left on a contract. I don’t remember what was going-on at that point.
And this is why you are here with us and Antonetti is in his position. Not sure what they can do with him though.
April of your rookie year, sure. Dude has been swirling around the bowl with us for a year and a half. Someone get the plunger already.
LAGUNITA! love this stuff.
Yea not sure which is worse having a physical/mechanical issue or a mental one. I’m guessing mechanical based on what I saw last night.
I was working in the yard and also came in during the 3rd inning, but to my wife running toward me saying, “Don’t look at the screen – just let me tell you about it. It will be easier that way.”
Haha…kind of wishing I had poured it this morning….baby was up all night and running on fumes by lunch time. Just a picture I found on google, but I highly recommend the beer if you’ve never had it! One instance where Sucks does not suck at all!
“Brad Grant and his scouting staff”
I assume they include his MLB scouting staff also, so they are the ones responsible for both sides of that trade.
My biggest concern with the Tribe moving forward is that we have so few pitchers and seem to miss on them in the draft and keep signing guys like Myers.
the obvious thing to point to is that the A`s were reportedly shopping Gio Gonzalez at the time and did trade him to the Nats that December. Not sure if Pomeranz/White would have been enough (A`s seem to scout SP well), but it’s the biggest “What If” on that trade to me.
later in the season, we can play a game of “Ubaldo or Myers” by giving these early season stat lines and trying to guess which one of these guys had that game.
Why me Rock?
Yes. Yes. Yes. You get it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnmnTTL462k&playnext=1&list=PL70898505B51FE9D3
“Shouldn’t there have been huge red flags up when the Rockies were
willing to give up a then-27 year old starter on a club friendly deal
that had a year and a half left on it and additional $5.75 million and
$8 million team options for 2013 and 2014?”
You can keep repeating this all you want, but the answer is still no. The Indians gave up a bevy of top prospects, along the lines of the Santana, Sabathia, and Lee (multiple times) trades. They gave up what would be considered to be a lot for a 2.5 years of a front line starter.
Other than that, go Halladay him. I don’t see how they’re going to succeed tinkering with him for four days at a time. Reboot.
What’s scary is how completely empty the cupboard is. Even in the best case scenario where Masterson, McAllister, Kazmir, and Bauer can pitch, those four won’t be enough to overcome the rest of our options at starter. Most of our money is tied up in position players and the farm system seems pretty dry. Not sure how we move forward.
Yeah, it’s not so much the loss of P & W as players, but misspending them as trade chips. Not sure what, if anything, we could have gotten for them though.
They understand a sunk cost. The issue is there is little extra cost to seeing if he can ever figure it out, with the alternative being Carrasco or Kluber. Might as well roll the die.
I don’t think starting Kluber over Jimenez is going to generate a lot of ticket sales.
They didn’t sign Myers because they were excited by him. They paid him like a back of the rotation guy. He’s here to eat innings instead of cycling through the Gomezes and Seddons. They preferred Swisher and Bourn to Jackson, I’m not sure you can blame them too much there.
But it’s not just the draft, starters are just not developing well in the minor league system. I wonder if the issue is the coaching. It’s not like they’re drafting guys that aren’t highly rated by almost everyone else.
they paid Myers $7mil. way too much for what he provides (and plenty of better options for that $$ were available) and they had to do it because there were no AAA options worth taking that slot. that is the problem with our team currently.
yes, it may be an issue with minor league development. whatever the issue ends up being, we really need to fix it if we are to ever truly compete. young, cheap arms is the tried and true method for small market teams.
sadly, it will likely need to be a complete reboot at some point. except I don’t see much urgency in the FO for such a change (guys like Mirabelli getting promotions, etc.).
So… looking at his contract, what is the answer? It looks like there is a $1M buyout for 2013… so the Indians can pay him a cool million to go away? At this point, it seems like they would do that and pull up Kluber until Bauer is ready, no? I have a bad feeling that he’s going to get at least one more start though.
Mirabelli being taken off the draft was a big change.
Well, we haven’t seen what he’s provided yet, and $7 million doesn’t buy you much pitching on the FA market. 160-180 innings of 90 ERA+ is what you’re paying for. And I know you’ve listed a few deals, but it’s not as easy as picking which contract you like after the fact.