Haslam: Jim Brown is iconic, team is “thrilled” to have him back
May 29, 2013Indians announcer Tom Hamilton has earned the benefit of the doubt
May 29, 2013Though Georgetown’s Otto Porter and Maryland’s Alex Len are in the mix, the Cleveland Cavaliers are believed to have Kentucky center Nerlens Noel at the top of their board heading in to the June 27 NBA Draft. ESPN’s Chad Ford reports that Noel is considered the leader in the clubhouse due to a myriad of reasons.
“Cavs general manager Chris Grant and his staff spent more time than anyone watching Noel this season, according to Kentucky head coach John Calipari,” writes Ford. “In fact, Grant recommended the surgeon, Dr. James Andrews, that Noel used for his ACL surgery. The Cavs also lean heavily on advanced metrics, and those numbers, regardless of the system, strongly favor Noel.”
These items all corroborate with recent reports seen at WFNY as well as the statistical breakdown in the most recent edition of The Diff.
The items working against Noel, per Ford, are the player’s current listed weight (206 lbs.), his recent ACL surgery, and the recent statements made by team owner Dan Gilbert about not wanting to be in the lottery after the impending seasons.
“The weight issue is quickly becoming a non-issue,” says Ford. “Noel weighed in at 206 pounds at the draft combine, creating a bit of a furor. Calipari told me that Dr. Andrews actually recommended Noel lose weight to help speed up the ACL recovery. Calipari said Noel weighed 222 pounds when he was injured. Noel told me in Chicago the number was actually 228.”
If the 2013-14 postseason does in fact become the overriding priority, there is a growing suspicion that Grant would be forced to move the pick for NBA-ready talent who can help the team immediately upon acquisition.
[Related: The Diff: The stats behind drafting Nerlens Noel at No. 1]
66 Comments
As great of a player as Noel is (or could be), it would be a PR nightmare for Gilbert and co. if all of a sudden it’s December and Irving, Varejao, and Noel are all sitting on the bench with injuries.
In order to win now and save face, he needs to take a safer pick that will be able to contribute all of next season, be that Porter, Len, or whomever.
The weight shouldn’t be an issue. An ACL injury means you can’t lift weights with your legs (which are your largest muscle group.) But at 206lbs, he only had 4% body fat, which suggests alot of cardio going on (not sure what you can do for Cardio with a torn ACL, but I wouldn’t rule out a lot of pool exercises to minimize the impact.) So lots of cardio and little weight training = weight loss.
Len is recovering from a surgery on the stress fracture in his foot. How is he a safer pick? LOL
I get what you are saying though…but “safe picks” aren’t necessarily winning us championships. Talent is what wins in the NBA…and you don’t pass up elite defensive talent (particularly from the center position) to pick up a rich-man’s Tayshaun Prince or a more athletic Wayne Ellington.
I’ve got a newsflash for you, Chad… everyone who has the money uses Dr. James Andrews. He’s the premier orthopedic surgeon in the world, so I’m sure there were no less than 50 different people telling Noel to go with Andrews.
Chad also asserts that Noel said he weighed 228 lbs at the time of his injury like that means his weight is a non-issue. That weight may be putting extra pressure on Noel’s now-damaged knee, and 228 is still very light for a guy projected as a center… Davis may have come into the NBA lighter, but I think his frame can hold much more weight than Noel’s.
I include Len as a ‘safer’ pick because he’s projected to be ready for the start of next season, meaning he could contribute to a lot more games than Noel could.
And in response to the ‘you don’t pass up elite defensive talent’ argument, I am concerned because Bismack Biyombo (of the Bobcats) had the same label, and he has done little to put the Charlotte franchise back on the map.
Nor do you pick the NBA’s next Birdman with the top pick.
Calipari doing so much talking would make me pause automatically!
http://www.fearthesword.com/2013/5/25/4365652/john-calipari-doesnt-think-nerlens-noels-weight-is-a-problem
A little bit more food for thought about Noel’s non-issue about his weight. Also read the comments that “somedumbname” wrote down about other lightweight players that have gone on to have very successful careers in the NBA.
You can now stop with the “don’t draft Noel because of his weight” excuses.
You’re welcome.
Charlotte hasn’t exactly lit the world on fire with any of their draft picks though. He’s probably the most limited offensive player in the league and would continue to be so even with Noel in the league. That whole franchise is just terrible right now.
There are other big men available in this draft though that doesn’t mean you have to take such a risk on someone like Noel. Forget the injury the kid is incredibly raw and has so much work to do related to basketball that it isn’t funny.
I would prefer to see Grant use all of the tools in his toolbox like the $$$ saved under the cap and a multitude of draft picks to massage and work this draft into something that could be more impactful then simply selecting a slight, currently injured, no offensive game of any kind, poor free throw shooter #1.
Bismack Biyombo doesn’t thrill ya?
It would seem to fly in the face of the “playoff” mentions but it fits in perfectly with the “defense” first mentality that the Cavaliers seem to be stuck on now. Heck they couldn’t get out of their own way fast enough to bring back a head coach they fired so them drafting Noel would be less of a surprise then if they didn’t.
Funniest line in this article…. “In fact, Grant recommended the surgeon, Dr. James Andrews”…wow…what a genius Grant is! recommending the most famous surgeon that practically every athlete uses! how did he uncover such a jewel of a surgeon?
jinx.
I’ve got a newsflash for you Vindictive_Pat – ACL tears are more freak injuries than “weight related” injuries.
Unless you are suggesting Iman Shumpert and Derrick Rose were too heavy for their positions? Or that Adrian Peterson was too heavy for his position in the NFL?
Chad Ford’s “report” was entirely ripped from the Calipari interview done on 92.3 a few days ago.
In order to save face from a hypothetical situation? I don’t get it. I’m not a Noel fan, but I’m not sure what you’re getting at.
Hi Ben… you’ll notice that I didn’t say that Noel’s weight caused the ACL tear… I was very careful not to say that because I don’t believe it to be true. What I am saying is that an already damaged ACL can be affected by putting on more weight, and I have certainly seen that to be true just in my own life with friends who tore their ACL when they were younger and added weight as they got older.
He is under the direct care of Dr. Andrews (pretty much the best sports medicine doctor in the US). He won’t be putting more weight on an already damaged knee. He’ll be putting more weight on when the knee is fully recovered.
As for your friends, did they see Dr. Andrews and use his rehab?
Yes, he did some pretty good research and FTS (in general) does a good job with Cavaliers related news. Love that site!
Of course he works for ESPN that’s how they do it. I bet Ford doesn’t even type his own stuff too!
Dr. James Andrews is the unquestioned authority in sports medicine.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to say a “damaged” ACL, I meant to say a “repaired” ACL. I’m not sure if what I’m saying is true, I know that a lot of doctors say that the ACL is just as strong after fully coming back from surgery as it is before the ACL was torn, but I just have a hard time believing any doctor recommends putting weight on a repaired ACL, even after a person comes back with full functionality.
Random question, but who pays for these kids to use Dr. James Andrew? Being college students, I’d assume they are on their parents health care plan, or COBRA or something of the sort. How do they get to choose which specialist they go to? I’d think they’d have to go to whoever the plan says they have to. Unless the college pays for it? And then is that considered an extra benefit? Just asking out of curiosity.
It’s a whole different world the same rules and restrictions that apply to the “common person” don’t apply to athletes.
so Grant or his henchmen have leaked their secret thoughts … sure they have, just like they let slip about Waiters last year and Tristan the year before that. More likely Ford is being used for a bit ‘o trade leverage.
yep, Chad lost all credibility with me with the Doc Andrews “scoop.”
That’s a good question. I’m guessing it comes out of the school’s athletic budget.
I believe if they are enrolled at school when the medical care is provided the school’s insurance company pays. Otherwise schools couldn’t maintain their cash cows.
Calapari just wants to be able to use the sales pitch of two straight UK players being selected #1 overall when he visits the next junior high school player.
He can also pimp Rose as his doing as another #1 overall pick.
My understanding is that once they hire an agent…the agent covers things via insurance up front…and then it’s taken care of once he signs a contract.
Someone who was the consensus #1 for the majority of the year is expected to make some serious bank…so the doctor’s fees may even get waived until he starts receiving an NBA check.
I do see your point, but I would think that any sign of knee pain (after adding weight) will cause him to see a doctor anwyays. Another member of the Fear The Sword site just did a fanpost on ACL injuries. I want to say that Corey Brewer had the quote that said the leg that he had to do rehab on was actually stronger…it’s just the mental part of the equation (can I make the cut, jump, etc…) that takes the longest part to recover from.
Noel projects to be much better than Birdman.
”In fact, Grant recommended the surgeon, Dr. James Andrews, that Noel used for his ACL surgery.”
well, thank goodness for that one. Calipari would never have known about such a great little-known surgeon like him otherwise 🙂
Noel looks more like a Ty Thomas, but that is the worry.
it is some good research, but here are the counterpoints:
Garnett / Bosh – well, when Noel develops a 19ft jumper, then he can look for a comparison here.
Larry Sanders – much more like it. BTW, centers had an allstar level PER against Larry Sanders last season because he wasn’t strong enough to stop them. He held PFs under league average. This is what I expect out of Noel until he gains weight/strength (if he can).
Marcus Camby – if everything goes right, then this is the comparison for Noel to live up to (hopefully with less bumps in the road). please note that Camby struggled on both ends for 3 seasons (including rebounding) because he was getting pushed around in the paint. He came into his own after the Raptors had given up on him for the Knicks. He also struggled with injuries for the first 7 years of his career.
Gortat – pretty dang big frame, ability to hit midrange shots, not elite athleticism. they are not similar prospects, which defeats the purpose. moving on.
Mutumbo – hey, maybe Noel becomes Mutumbo. if we draft him, then we can hope.
funny how we all notice such a statement and how it completely undercuts the rest of the story.
After watching Hibbert just abuse and shred the 230-245 lb. Miami defenders last night, I shudder at how quickly a beefed up 225 lb. Noel would foul out of that matchup. I’m talking myself out of this guy – #1 overall seems wrong for a guy who’s zero offense and defender-lite.
#1 should be the matchup nightmare, not the victim of one. But I’ll probably change my mind tomorrow.
I want to make clear that I’m friendly-arguing here, but why? I would argue that Birdman is much better than he was initially projected to be and Noel becoming Birdman would be a nice piece for the Cavs to have, but just not worthy of a #1 pick. I like to scout basketball players myself… I don’t give a lot of weight to the opinions of the Chad Fords of the world because they are often wrong (as am I). But here’s what I see when I see Noel’s development:
The good:
1) He will be a great shot-blocker… top 3 in the league during his prime if not the best.
2) He will be an excellent defensive player in 4-5 years when he gets the muscle and strength to combat in the post.
3) He will be a great (but not elite) rebounder on both the offensive and defensive glass.
4) He will be a guy who finishes well and defends well in transition.
The bad:
1) He will never have a jump shot or any other offensive move other than a hook shot or dunk/layup. I just don’t see the framework there to build on.
2) Right now, he gets pushed under the basket fairly often by college players… it’s going to take a while before he can stand his ground against NBA players, and even at his peak this will still happen more often than you’d like.
3) Awful passer out of the post and I just don’t ever see him adding much on offense… I see him as a one-way player even in his prime, a la Ben Wallace.
4) This goes with his jump shot, but I never see him reaching 60% as a free throw shooter. His form is bad, yes, but beyond that he has huge hands. You wouldn’t think this would be that bad of a thing because having hands that are too small is also bad, but there’s a middle ground.
In conclusion: I like Noel, but I like him later in the draft and I don’t like him for the Cavs. If I had to project what happens with him, he becomes a fantastic one-way defensive player by his 4th year and the Cavs benefit from 2 years of Noel before he leaves to go to another team after his rookie contract since Irving and another player are already getting max salary from the Cavs.
Haha, so true. The rest of the story was just fluff for me though… I don’t really think Chad Ford has any knowledge of anything. Chris Grant was looking at Noel a lot? Cool. He didn’t even interview Dion Waiters last year and selected him. I don’t know how often he went to see Waiters play, but I don’t think it was much.
he had an inside connection with Syracuse if I remember correctly and was how he was able to keep his scouting of him hush-hush.
Ahh then I retract.
I think his offense will be more DeAndre Jordan than Ben Wallace, but otherwise I agree with a vast majority of your post.
The likeliest scenario with Noel to me is that he will struggle for the next few years while showing some glimpses. Whatever team that drafts his will get impatient with his development and he’ll help his 2nd team out much more than he does the team that drafted him.
That is in line with what I have heard from doctors. When I had my tendon in my finger repaired, the doctor told me that the new bond is stronger than what it was prior to the injury. But I’ve also noticed that genetics also seem to play a part. I wonder if stats back this up, because there are certain families I know where all of the members of the family have had to quit playing sports because of the frequency of ligament tears. There’s no way to know if this applies to Noel yet, but it’s always something I think about when a player gets his first ACL tear… is he going to get more of them?
DeAndre Jordan is a better comparison on offense, I agree… much better finisher directly at the rim.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/cavs-coach-sees-plenty-wade-pick-waiters
“Grant said the Cavs were more thorough in checking out Waiters’ background than with any player they’ve ever drafted. Team scouts spent time on Syracuse’s campus and Grant watched Waiters in practice to see how he acted with his teammates.
The Cavs wanted see if there was anything more to him going to four high schools or if reports of Waiters bumping heads with Boeheim were true. In the end, they were satisfied they were getting a player of high
character and untapped potential. It helped that one of Grant’s closest friends is an assistant on Syracuse’s coaching staff.”
Hibbert and Lopez are two of my favorite big men. They are the definitions of big men. In fact I’m still disappointed the Cavaliers didn’t at least make Indiana match an offer to big Roy but oh well.
Definitely on Hibbert, but Portland got scared off of signing him because Indiana made it clear it was a fruitless exercise. Brook proved himself more capable on defense this past season than he had been. Hopefully, he can continue that rise.
There is no better center in the NBA than Marc Gasol though.
Chris Grant recommended Dr. Andrews? Really? I guess being the most prominent sports surgeon in the country wasn’t enough to get him on Noels radar, but Grants suggestion sealed the deal? Sounds to me like the national media is scraping to create any “links” between Noel and the Cavs that they can
I’m more concerned with bone/cartilage issues than I am an ACL/PCL/MCL tear. The APM injuries almost always are freak injuries. Bone/Cartilage issues seem the ones that are most likely to be repetitive.