Tribe Weekend Recap: “Its All Happening!”
September 16, 2013The Browns are so bad that ESPN listed Pittsburgh twice in the standings
September 16, 2013
I’m a bit tired from being out at a concert last night, so I don’t have much to say other than it was a good conversation and the notes below tell the story of what we discussed today.
Sigur Ros show at Nautica
LeBron’s wedding on Yom Kippur
The Cleveland Indians and their ability to grab the casual fans
Michael Bourn and the attendance question
The beginning part of the Bourn quote
The Indians pitching staff with Kluber, Salazar and Ubaldo Jimenez
Carlos Carrasco and his ability to be in the bullpen
The Indians never sign one of their own guys so they don’t have the leverage
Grady Sizemore and his star power
The Indians sold that they were the smartest in the room and people bought it
Looking at the attendance from series to series and game to game
The front office should initiate the conversation about year over year attendance
Would the Indians sellout a home playoff game?
Who asked the Michael Bourn question?
The Cleveland Browns and the lack of entertainment
The Cleveland Browns and how they don’t have an NFL quarterback
The pass to Chris Ogbonnaya and the sideline reaction to him missing it
The Browns coaching staff and what’s happening with the Browns offense
What’s the deal with Trent Richardson?
Just how boring it is to watch the Browns
The penalties and the delays of games and illegal formations, etc.
The element of despair for long-time Cleveland sports fans
Chief Wahoo and the Cleveland Indians name
Being on the wrong side of history with your team name
Cleveland fans as crabs in a bucket
Barkevious Mingo looking good
35 Comments
I thought I saw you there! What a show.
“S—heads”, “half a f—— brain”. Yeah, Raab is really looking to thing critically and with a clear head about this. But he can rant and hurl insults and curses, at least he has that going for him. Maybe Bourn said something, but it actually is an issue? Ever think of that?
In 2007, the Indians had a damn good team, winning the most games in MLB, and the Browns were generating excitement, and the Indians finished all of 21st in MLB in attendance.
And many have written about Bourn’s lack of production recently, and of course, everyone and their mother in this town has written something about the relationship between the owner and fanbase. But go ahead, you and Raab continue telling yourself otherwise. And I like how Raab mentions that the smarter guys covering the team disagree with him, but they’re still idiots too. Raab can’t be convinced to look in the mirror for one whole second and go “hey, maybe I am wrong about this”. Of course that will require him to stop enjoying the sound of his own voice, but stranger things have happened.
Raab goes on about what other small market teams say to their fans without providing any substantiation. Useless ranting again by him.
“Who on earth is trading CC Sabathia for Michael Brantley?” Why don’t we look at the recent trades of aces near FA. Santana, Sabathia, Lee (multiple times) have all returned about one decent player. This has been covered many, many times, including at this very site! Of course, Raab can’t be asked to let fact-checking get in the way of his ranting.
You guys say how much they suck at developing players, but you yourself mention Kluber and Salazar. This team spun straw into gold by getting those two to be legit major league contributors this year.
The pizza place analogy is ridiculously flawed. And how nice of you to be sorry that your standard is higher than most small market teams typically achieve. Of course, you don’t bother to look at all the other small markets that sell without achieving your standard. Why would you? It gets in the way of a good rant (are you starting to notice a pattern here?)
And the Indians have addressed their drafting issues. They’ve admitted it, and they’ve brought in a new guy to run the draft. How hard is it to pay attention to this stuff?
Absolutely incredible. One of the best concerts I’ve ever seen. Without exaggeration.
I could really go for a TD-cast about now. Need to get some positive Tribe-vibes going since the Browns and attendance woes seem to be choking out the life of the Cleveland fan these days.
So, are you saying you didn’t enjoy the podcast, Steve? I’m having a hard time hearing you over all that hot air whooshing out of your mouth.
I like the raabcasts more every week. your rapport gets more comfy each week too.
raab is right-on with the attendance-baiting questions and wrong headed narratives that withers et al are slaves to. great to hear some one who can see through the fog.
Raab, you mean the guy who in this podcast put words into other peoples mouths regarding that question? I get that everyone likes Raab for being the face for our anger when Lebron left, but he deserves to get called out when he starts completely make s— up like that.
Weirdly, I asked the same playoff game/sellout question on a different thread without having seen it as one of your topics here. (Or maybe this is just an obvious question). So … summarize your answers?
No he meant the other guy.
Well at least you’re willing to have a meaningful and constructive discussion.
Always.
i have withers and lloyd and hoynes on my twtter feed. i know their pre-occupation with attendance first hand. i also know that asking a player attendance questions allows one to further one’s ‘bad attendance’ agenda surreptitiously. and attendance questions are way more complex than ‘cle not a baseball town.’ and fan-blaming is indeed an easier story to write than criticisms of players you see every day.
so i’m 100% good with raab’s take on this and thought his rant was pretty well stated for a rant and certainly more honest than the reporting and obfuscating on this issue.
(not sure what lebron has to do with any of this.)
The only thing Lebron has to do with this is that it was the “easier story” for Raab to get his mug out there, sell some books and get to hear his voice on the radio and podcasts.
You can call it a pre-occupation, but its a huge story. It’s going beyond the sports pages as Crain’s is picking it up. It’s gone national with reports from CBS Sports and Rob Neyer. This isn’t a couple local guys trying to rile up the fans. Why Cleveland can’t sell tickets for a playoff contender is a story.
And asking a player has nothing to do with furthering an agenda. It’s getting a different response to the big story. If it wasn’t a big story, Bourn wouldn’t have any comments to make on it. That he did have something to say shows that it affects the players too.
Raab’s take only works if you operate solely in the Raab-bubble, where you get to ignore everything going on in the real world, and logic is damned in favor of curses.
Why is it a “huge story”? Tampa hasn’t been able to draw consistently after putting 4-5 years of playoff quality baseball together, as opposed to being decent for 3/4 of one year like the Indians this season. You’re just as defensive about Raab calling out a front office that hasn’t been able to put together back to back winning seasons in 11 years as you claim they are about attendance.
It’s a huge story because a lot of people care about it. If few people cared about it, it would stay on page D6, or wherever Hoynes’ rants usually fall.
Tampa’s attendance story has been a national story for a while now as well. And where I am defensive about Raab calling out the front office? I’ve only said that Raab is wrong when he suggests that people haven’t pointed out the mistakes this team has made. If Raab feels that it’s necessary to come down and berate Bourn for his performance this season, I have no problem with that. Raab has milked enough money out of Clevelanders that he can afford to do it on his own though, so I don’t see why he has bash Hoynes for not doing it.
This keeps circling back to people not liking the fans getting ripped, and them wanting to point the finger at the fans. I get that, no one likes to take any sort of blame. But let’s not pretend this is anything more than Clevelanders getting pissy when they get called out.
*them wanting to point the finger at someone else.
Half of your first post was an apology for this front office. You suggest it’s okay they have 1 playoff trip in 11 years given their small market constraints, while seemingly pretending Minnesota and Tampa, to name just two, have not achieved far more in the same time frame with less payroll or attendance, depending on the market.
It’s not a “huge story” at all. What has 5 years of covering it in Tampa accomplished? Do people show up now? No. Have they been moved? No.
What was an apology for this front office? All I did was ask Raab to do some fact-checking, and to ask both these guys to remember names they brought up just a few minutes earlier. You’re really stretching to try to change the subject here.
And the covering of the story has certainly made changes. Moving a team isn’t quick and easy, and it takes much more than five years. The Rays process of getting a new stadium has picked up steam, and MLB is getting more involved in the negotiations between the team and St. Pete.
And more to the point, this front office has not produced anywhere near as good a product as Tampa’s has the last 5 years, so Cleveland’s lack of attendance is nowhere near the same “story”.
Hey, maybe we can make the point that people are unhappy with the front office again. That is certainly a brand new point in the discussion. Like I said, this keeps circling back on the people trying to point the finger elsewhere.
And fine, you can put your fingers in your ears and go “LA LA LA” while the story gets picked up by more and more people outside the Cleveland sports page. There’s no skin off my back if you want to ignore it, but that doesn’t mean the story will go away.
It doesn’t have to be a novel point to be a significant factor. And the front office is still there, so it doesn’t go away just because you want it to.
Yes, because people talking about it in Atlanta will solve the Tribe’s attendance problems.
Kansas City has not drawn 2 million since 1991? Does it also take 20 plus years to relocate?
All I’m doing is showing that you’re a one trick pony here.
That is almost what I said, keep trying though, I’m sure you’ll eventually stumble across an argument that isn’t putting words in my mouth.
I’d say that a team in a smaller market that hasn’t reached the postseason in 28 years, and hasn’t even broken 85 wins in that time frame would be expected to draw so poorly over 20 years. To suggest the Indians have as poor a history as the Royals is laughable at best, and is pretty willfully ignorant.
And you’re a two trick pony. You don’t like Raab and you think this front office is great.
Feel free to make one at any point.
Yet they haven’t moved, either. So really your whining about attendance has no point, whatsoever.
Again, words in my mouth.
You clearly want this discussion to be about how wronged the fans have been by this front office. That’s been had here many times, so I’ll let you enjoy this one by yourself.
The difference is that isn’t a town that has proven it won’t show up, even when the team is good. Cleveland is getting in that territory. They draw poorly because few teams have a worse record over the previous 20 years. The Indians draw poorly despite not having such an awful record.
And please, continue your strategy of blaming customers for not purchasing a product they find to be substandard. I can see it has clearly paid huge dividends in increasing attendance at the Jake.
1 playoff appearance in 11 is a pathetic track record and one which is going to turn fans off. 3/4 of a decent season and no guarantee of the postseason is not going to change it overnight.